A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom


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Post Post #1425 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:26 pm

Post by Mikujin »

CSL wrote:Kill vezok or SSBF, and lynch the other, am I right?
Looks like our best candidate for scum was scum; as such I'm much more comfortable endorsing the one good plan CSL has put forth thus far.

On the likely chance one of them flips scum, though, wouldn't it be better served to pursue some of the links connected to either/or, rather than just jump to lynching the other? Certainly I'd say that this seems like a better plan the "kill this dude, lynch this dude regardless of the flip. Killing either of the runner-up scum candidates from yesterday certainly seems like it'd be in our best interests, however.

Another consideration may be to wait on the event investigation before offing either of them. No reason we can't use the investigation on one of the day vig candidates before we kill them; haste makes waste.

Deciding on the candidates for the investigation, I'd say, is pretty easy if we want to take our best crack at nailing scum. Excepting the fact that this [investigation]
is
a very handy tool we're being given - and my indeed serve us better elsewhere - I'd think it's in our best interests to investigate a candidate such as Vezo or SSBF (prior to a potential day vig). Valid concern should be given to both options.

Also, Thor - was the day vig claim brought on by simple hatred of the Vezo wagon, or did you just think that this would be a good time to drop the claim (given the investigation event and all)? Really seems odd to just drop it out of nowhere, at least from my perpspective.

(The last couple days of work have been ridiculously long, so I'm dead tired; if any of that sounds wonky I'll try to clarify it, bedtime for now.)
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Post Post #1426 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:40 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Mikujin wrote:Also, Thor - was the day vig claim brought on by simple hatred of the Vezo wagon, or did you just think that this would be a good time to drop the claim (given the investigation event and all)? Really seems odd to just drop it out of nowhere, at least from my perpspective.
It was done for a couple of reasons.

1. With the cop investigation I was able to turn this into a high information day for town.
2. I do hate the Vezo wagon...I have continuously commented on how distracting it is for town and how his 'too scummy to be scum' situation is distressing to me.
3. With 3 or so kills a night I would rather get my power out and used now while it can help speed up investigations rather then hoping I live till late enough to have a functional target to pick.

When do you think I should have "dropped it"?
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Post Post #1427 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:01 pm

Post by Mina »

I) Thor

Thor wrote:@Richard - Flavor: I'm Robb Stark the king in the North. My vig is from my pet wolf apparently.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

*clears throat*

Sorry. It's just...if you'd read the mini...yeah. Faraday clearly has a sense of humour.

I approve 100% of the vezo daykill. But damn it, why do players who are already obvtown have to be the ones with provable roles?

----------------------------------


2) The Trial


FOS: anyone suggesting that Percy step forward,
for trying to get us to waste a chance at preventing a mislynch on a player who will be nightkilled eventually. Okay, if Percy is scum, then whose buddy do you think he is? Raivann's or danakillsu's?

I'd have rather waited to see who would put themselves forward and who would try to escape notice. So far, we've caught Benmage trying to pressure the Hand into stepping forward while not doing himself until anyone else did. (CSL actually came across as kind of genuine about wanting to prove himself.) But that horse has left the stables. The whole town has to do this together for it to work.

Step Forward


I think that SSBF should be nominated to prove himself instead of lynched. Right now, pretty much everyone would be okay with lynching him. He's also been the counterwagon to a Mafia godfather, and has links to the other flipped godfather. So it would be a good idea to have his alignment settled once and for all, and then concentrate on the other players in the game. Not only has everyone taken a stand on him, but afterwards, we can forget about him and start a fresh set of mobs to analyze. If he flips scum at the end of the day, then he gets "hacked to pieces" that night. But if he flips town, then we save ourselves what was a guaranteed mislynch.

Vote: SSBF
as most worthy.

----------------------------------


3) Benmage


That said, if I had to vote for someone to
lynch
, it would actually be Benmage over CSL at this point. Not only because of how he tried to get us to waste our chance to clear someone on Percy. His play is all-around scummy.

(I had to leave Saturday night, and caught Benmage's spamathon. Since then, I've been debating how best to approach this. Never mind that I should really do a lynch mob analysis, which is more productive, instead of indulging my sadism in humiliating a scumbag who thinks he's a lot more competent as scum than he actually is. See, I'm not a very organized person. But trying to form a logical case out of the mess that is Benmage is a feat of organization. You can't just quote him and show all the times he's scummy. So much crap is flying out in all directions that it's hard to catch it all and contain it. What to do? To point out each of the dozens of times he claims he doesn't do something WHILE DOING IT IN THE SAME POST? To respond to every single one of his inane questions after I've accused him of deliberately spamming the thread with inane questions, even though it will just encourage him to fill the thread with more white noise and inane questions in response? To ignore most of it and just give a summary of my issues with him, with five zillion quotes illustrating each point?

Hint for next game, after you're lynched: I was not at all the best person on whom to try that act you pulled on I doubt it. For one thing, I'm not scum, so I won't immediately try to appease you and run away with my tail tucked between my legs. For another thing...let me put it this way. You see, you may have assumed that I'm easy pickings because my join date is October 2009, but I've had an intermediate amount of experience off-site. And as bad as I am at reading people, I'm not all that bad at debating when I make an effort. Particularly not with someone who can barely form complete sentences.)

I don't think your interaction with I doubt it was distancing (although it struck me at the time that I doubt it's reaction to Benmage was rather nonchalant), but I like you for a Greyjoy.

----------------------------------


4) The Night Kills


Axelrod, unless you think there's any possible way that "drowned" wasn't a Greyjoy kill, then we know "poisoning" is a Lannister flavour. (In the mini, Cersei was the poisoner.) I'm not sure what happened to Budja on N1 (if he really suicided or it was a Greyjoy kill), but clearly, Raivann and I doubt it were vig/SK kills due to "hacked to pieces." Since SSBF is much more likely to be a Greyjoy than a Lannister, he probably wasn't behind the jvw kill.

But I can see one other good reason why someone would poison julienvonwolfe on N1 and LynchMePls on N2. A very good reason.

Care to reveal anything, Cow?
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Post Post #1428 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:25 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Mina wrote:
Vote: SSBF
as most worthy.
Per mod instructions we don't get to vote for who is most worthy till the end of the stepping forward week.

As currently parsed this is a regular lynch vote on SSBF.

I'm going to sleep on this one.
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Post Post #1429 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:33 pm

Post by Mina »

Ah, sorry.

Unvote


Vote: Benmage


I may change this when I get off my ass and actually reread Days One and Two. Aah, I just noticed something:
CSL wrote:Excuse me? Why didn't you hammer dana, since he's the closest to a lynch, and deadline is practically BREATHING DOWN OUR NECKS?!?

If dana is scum, I'd keep a close eye on you, Mina.
1) This is hilarious, because CSL never joined the dana mob. And yet even though deadline was BREATHING DOWN OUR NECKS, he didn't hammer in that post in which he berated me for hammering.

2) That last part makes him a possible Lannister who knows what dana will flip.
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Post Post #1430 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:33 pm

Post by Mina »

EBWOP: Um...in that post in which he berated me for NOT hammering.
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Post Post #1431 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:34 pm

Post by Mina »

SECOND EBWOP: Oh...

...oh.

Never mind. I...I forgot that CSL lost his vote on D2. Ignore that last part.
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Post Post #1432 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:37 pm

Post by Mina »

THIRD EBWOP: And by last part, I mean "first part" (i.e., Point #1 is invalidated).

I give up. I should not be allowed to post on a forum with no Edit function.
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Post Post #1433 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:11 pm

Post by Locke Lamora »

What does everyone else think of Percy being put forward? He does have two votes, after all.

Mikujin: we can't wait, the alignment reveal gets posted with the lynch scene.
If ya smell what The Locke is cookin'!

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Post Post #1434 (ISO) » Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:51 pm

Post by vezokpiraka »

I was wondering when it will happen.
I learned it's better to kill me early then let me live. We lost star wars cause of that.
Step Forward
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Post Post #1435 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:09 am

Post by Macavitar »

Hello everyone, this is the VP Baltar half of Macavitar. I will be handling the duties for Macavity Lock while he's V/LA and then we'll hydra together when he comes back. I have not been able to read the whole game yet because my apartment flooded a few days ago and that was a massive cleanup. I'm up through page 25 currently, which isn't even the end of day 1. Now, I have a couple proposals: 1) I finish reading the whole game, which will likely take a few days due to work and what not or 2) I read the past ten pages and someone can fill me in on the middle bits.

If I do number one, I'll obviously have a more complete overview of the game, but it is going to take me awhile (especially if pages continue to be added while I'm reading). Number two gets me in the game sooner, but I'm likely to be missing some pieces of the puzzle and will have to go on second hand information somewhat.

My abridged reads as of page 25 are:

1) Xvart - town

2) Mina -neutral

3) LynchMePls - town

4) MacavityLock - town

6) Unsight - scum

7) Thor665 - town

8) Benmage - town

9) Axelrod - scum

10) Super Smash Bros. Fan - neutral/scummy

11) Percy - town

13) Vezopiraka - scum

14) Locke Lamora - neutral

15) Mikujin - town

16) I doubt it - neutral

18) diddin - scum

19) CSL - scum

20) Rifka Viveka - scum

23) RichardGHP - town

24) hasdgfas - neutral

25) MagnaOfIllusion - neutral

26) Drippereth - town
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Post Post #1436 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:41 am

Post by Mina »

Locke Lamora wrote:What does everyone else think of Percy being put forward? He does have two votes, after all.
Thank you for claiming scum, Locke Lamora.
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Post Post #1437 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:53 am

Post by Axelrod »

Mina: I am also very interested in having Percy be the one to Step Forward if you think that's scummy. He's just someone who seems good enough to slip by as scum, so I'm naturally wary of him, and I'd be happy with the insurance. You say he'll likely end up dead anyway, but that hasn't happened yet, so there's no reason to assume it will happen later and before anyone else.

I'm not all gung-ho this is definitely what we should do, and there are other people I'd also be happy to have inspected, but in as much as you are making this a point against Benmage, I have to say I don't agree.

Macaviter: welcome, I guess. Any time you want to elaborate on your read of me I'll be happy to discuss it.
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Post Post #1438 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:05 am

Post by Mina »

Pay attention. I'm also holding it (as well as more in that post) against Locke.

There is no evidence implying that Percy is scum. Your strategy is to roll a dice and hope he drew a scum PM, because he's so good that we mere mortals have no help of catching him. There's a chance that he's a Greyjoy who bussed Raivann (which would explain the jump to CMAR and back) or a serial killer, so I won't put odds of Percy scum at 0%. (The only point I can hold against Percy is that other than Richard early on D1, I don't think there's been a single popular lynch he hasn't agreed with.) But if he's
not
scum, then we wasted the best chance we had to clear a player who would have been otherwise lynched.

If we're looking at players that won't ever get lynched because people are calling them obvtown (despite not actually doing anything obvtown), then how about Cow? Why doesn't Cow step forward?
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Post Post #1439 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:28 am

Post by Rifka Viveka »

Mina is totally right. Cop 101 is dont investigate total obv town or total VI at the bottom of the scuminess barrel thats an obv lynch. So its suspicious when experienced player like benmage advocates wasting it on percy

@thor;shoot vezo. It doesnt get any simpler than that, his explanation of his soft claim vs real claim reads as bogus. too bad spyrex isnt here to run the vig like he did in SWN2...
Winter is coming.
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Post Post #1440 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:29 am

Post by vezokpiraka »

Let's AtE.
I promise I will vote only for the player with the most votes. I will listen to the town. And I am proud for winning the "Get daybigged award".
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Post Post #1441 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:03 am

Post by Super Smash Bros. Fan »

@Thor665 (#1420): Your Day Vigilante claim is good, but I'd like to know this:

1. How many times are you able to shoot? I ask this because you claimed the role, but have not used it during Day 1 or Day 2.
vezokpiraka wrote:Let's AtE.
No, let's not do AtE. Deliberately doing so will not benefit the town.
vezokpiraka wrote:I promise I will vote only for the player with the most votes. I will listen to the town. And I am proud for winning the "Get daybigged award".
Listening to town means actually contributing to killing scums, not bandwagoning.
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Post Post #1442 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:09 am

Post by vezokpiraka »

Well Nobody listens to me.
If you do then the scums should be SSBF , Mina and someone else who I can't seem to find.
If you promise to keep me alive I will make cases about them.
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Post Post #1443 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:14 am

Post by Locke Lamora »

No, thank you, Mina. You too, Rifka.

Percy: I have information that indicates you're anti-town. I'd like a claim now to see if there's any other possible explanation for what I know.

Thor: I would advise you hold off from vigging anyone until this plays out.
If ya smell what The Locke is cookin'!

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Post Post #1444 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:16 am

Post by vezokpiraka »

Locke Lamora wrote:No, thank you, Mina. You too, Rifka.

Percy: I have information that indicates you're anti-town. I'd like a claim now to see if there's any other possible explanation for what I know.

Thor: I would advise you hold off from vigging anyone until this plays out.
Cop rescue.
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Post Post #1445 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:41 am

Post by Macavitar »

Ok, I'm going to just read today's stuff until someone actually comes forward and replies to what I said.

Step Forward
first and foremost. I don't see any reason for a town player not to step forward.
Benmage wrote:Moving right along. Here's the list of people soon be further examined, iso'd, and maybe even pbpa. Order decending in importance based on read(or lack thereof) as well as scumminess...Also gonna look into the lynches, wagons, and deaths yada yad etc etc.
MacavityLock
Locke Lamora
Rifka Viveka
Mina
Xvart
Axelrod
Unsight
Mikujin

In the meantime we can start wagoning up vezo.

Vote Vezopiraka
Why are you not voting someone who appears on your list of suspects? Secondly, why the hell would you have Percy step forward as opposed to someone who is of a less clear alignment? That doesn't make much sense.
diddin wrote:
diddin wrote:
Benmage wrote:Re-reading I doubt it, I find it nearly impossible for SSBF to be a Lannister.
I think he's a Greyjoy, as shown by his reluctance to vote Raivann and just his overall scumminess.
Where abouts is his reluctance located? I think SSBF was acting somewhat scummy earlier in the thread in a general way, so I'd like you to point me where it becomes more specific toward one scum group or the other.
Axelrod wrote:In terms of whom I'd like to be sure of 100% that would be Percy.
:roll: I'm officially saying it now, anyone pushing for percy to be investigated gets scum points in my book. First, Percy is not impossible to read, so I don't know why people feel that way. He may be more difficult, but I think if you look closely at his play it is easy to see if there is consistency or not. That's the key to percy-town vs. percy-scum. From what I have read so far, we're looking at Percy town here. The game would be much better served by investigating someone of a murkier (or lurkier!) alignment.
Benmage wrote:
Axelrod wrote:This, incidentally, fits with the theory that SSBF is a Greyjoy.

Vote: SSBF


I'm very happy to start the day here.
You just said the Lannisters killed jvw, and you're linking it to SSBF wanting him dead, and now being a Greyjoy.... :? :? :?
Agree. This is the type of crap Axelrod has been putting forth all game. His theories have been nonsensical and he's really been giving me the vibe of playing from the sidelines from everything I've read.
thor wrote:My intent is to kill vezok unless town can explain to me a better kill option. My kill does not end the day, so basically town will get a free flip and a free investigation today. When I decide who to kill I will make the usual claim and final suspicions requests prior to vigging them.
Sweet. This is highly beneficial. I think a Vez vig would be worthwhile.
Mina wrote:I approve 100% of the vezo daykill. But damn it, why do players who are already obvtown have to be the ones with provable roles?
While I agree with your thor read, I do have to point out a bit of theory for you. Provable roles =/= town roles. Dayvig could be something scum picked up as well.
Locke Lamora wrote:What does everyone else think of Percy being put forward? He does have two votes, after all.
I think, 'Why hello scumbag! So nice to meet you."

Official count on scumbags afraid of being investigated: Benmage, Axelrod, Locke Lamora
Axelrod wrote:Any time you want to elaborate on your read of me I'll be happy to discuss it.
If I feel you need to be lynched, I'll elaborate. That being said, don't expect me to try to convince you of your own scumminess, just the rest of the town.
Vezo wrote:Let's AtE.
I promise I will vote only for the player with the most votes. I will listen to the town. And I am proud for winning the "Get daybigged award".
lol, kill now please.
Locke Lamora wrote:No, thank you, Mina. You too, Rifka.

Percy: I have information that indicates you're anti-town. I'd like a claim now to see if there's any other possible explanation for what I know.
Hmm, ok. I reserve my earlier judgement (only about Locke mind you). Let's hear this now, Percy. Hold that Vig thor.
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Post Post #1446 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:47 am

Post by Axelrod »

Mina wrote: Pay attention. I'm also holding it (as well as more in that post) against Locke.
Yeah, well, you made your post while I was typing mine, I saw it in preview, but it didn't really change what I had to say, so please don't accuse me of not "paying attention."
Mina wrote:There is no evidence implying that Percy is scum.
Well, that's not exactly true either. There's certainly nothing blatant though.
Mina wrote:Your strategy is to roll a dice and hope he drew a scum PM, because he's so good that we mere mortals have no help of catching him.
It's not a "die roll." It's a strategic choice. You are free to disagree (and obviously do) but don't call it a die roll.

And now that Locke has said what he's said I think it becomes even more an issue.
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Post Post #1447 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:01 am

Post by Axelrod »

Macavitar wrote:
Axelrod wrote:In terms of whom I'd like to be sure of 100% that would be Percy.
:roll: I'm officially saying it now, anyone pushing for percy to be investigated gets scum points in my book. First, Percy is not impossible to read, so I don't know why people feel that way. He may be more difficult, but I think if you look closely at his play it is easy to see if there is consistency or not. That's the key to percy-town vs. percy-scum. From what I have read so far, we're looking at Percy town here. The game would be much better served by investigating someone of a murkier (or lurkier!) alignment.
You may have already backed off this, but the point remains that wanting an investigation of Percy is
hardly
a scum-tell. I don't know how you do it as Cop, but when it's me, I try to Cop the good players, under the assumption that the bad players are going to be easier to catch (because, you know, bad). Sometimes a player can post in such a way I get such a strong town read that I feel it's unnecassary, but Percy certainly wasn't there yet.
Macavitar wrote:Agree. This is the type of crap Axelrod has been putting forth all game. His theories have been nonsensical and he's really been giving me the vibe of playing from the sidelines from everything I've read.
That is most certainly NOT the "type of crap" I've been "putting forth" all game. I rather think that's the first time, caused by (what I thought was) a good insight during the Night, but which got turned on it's head with I Doubt It coming up dead Lannister scum. I will give you the "playing from the sidelines" thing because I agree I haven't truly stepped it up this game. Yet.
Macavitar wrote:
Axelrod wrote:Any time you want to elaborate on your read of me I'll be happy to discuss it.
If I feel you need to be lynched, I'll elaborate. That being said, don't expect me to try to convince you of your own scumminess, just the rest of the town.
Okay, so you're listing me as "scum" based on initial impressions but not trying to convince anyone of it yet. That's fine, I guess.

When I'm unsure of someone I try to ask them questions though, which is not eaxctly the same thing as "trying to convice" a player of his own scumminess.
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Post Post #1448 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:15 am

Post by Macavitar »

Axel wrote:You may have already backed off this
I didn't actually. Here, I'll quote:
Mac wrote:I reserve my earlier judgement
(only about Locke mind you)
.
Bolded is relevant. Your feet are still in the fire.
Axel wrote:I try to Cop the good players, under the assumption that the bad players are going to be easier to catch
If you actually cop this way, and I highly doubt you do because you seem competent enough, then you are playing the role terribly wrong imo. Why is copping people you have a read on more beneficial than copping people you are unsure about?
Axel wrote:When I'm unsure of someone I try to ask them questions though, which is not eaxctly the same thing as "trying to convice" a player of his own scumminess.
I'll get there, trust me. I just have a shit ton of reading to do still before I actually feel informed about this game.
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Post Post #1449 (ISO) » Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:27 am

Post by Thor665 »

Mina wrote:Ah, sorry.
Well, at the moment I'm buying the apology because the logic behind the SSBF investigation is functional and I had to re-read Eddard's post when it was first made before I felt I had the situation grasped.
vezokpiraka wrote:Let's AtE.
It's so funny it hurts and makes me cry. Locke's thing on Percy better be made of win with chocolate sprinkles - that's all I'm saying.
Super Smash Bros. Fan wrote:@Thor665 (#1420): Your Day Vigilante claim is good, but I'd like to know this:

1. How many times are you able to shoot? I ask this because you claimed the role, but have not used it during Day 1 or Day 2.
Seriously? Yeah, definite lynch or cop scan today.
Locke Lamora wrote:Percy: I have information that indicates you're anti-town. I'd like a claim now to see if there's any other possible explanation for what I know.

Thor: I would advise you hold off from vigging anyone until this plays out.
I'm in no dramatic rush, though vezo is working hard on me. I'm excited to see where this goes.
Macavitar wrote:Ok, I'm going to just read today's stuff until someone actually comes forward and replies to what I said.
Here's my reply - either read up, or just start responding to the new stuff. Tell us which you're doing and accept whatever flak you get from the choice as your due. I see no reason at all to weigh in on how you should handle a catch up read, why do you not have an idea in your own head for what is the best way for town to catch up?

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