Prox wrote:I call OMGUS.
Aww, I wanted to call OMGUS.
But really, though, I agree with Prox on this. Shotty, trying to squeeze Prox's actions over the course of the game into the boxes he set up for you just doesn't work.
1) Buddying: You accuse Prox of buddying for jumping in on your conversation with Haylen about Kongregate. Ignoring for a moment how silly of a notion this is, you were the one who brought up Kongregate in the first place. Using your logic, wouldn't it make more sense for you to be accused of buddying for bringing up Kongregate in the first place, to try to befriend the town? (NOTE: I do not believe this. It is merely an extension of Shotty's logical fallacy.)
2) Contradiction: You accuse Prox of contradiction for his posts asking G&H if he is mafia. But while this posts are contradictory, I don't think Prox is intentionally contradicting himself, the subject is just confusing. The simple explanation, I believe, is that he was simply testing the limits of what G&H will and will not tell us by asking him the direct question "are you scum?" It was only in qualifying that statement that things got confusing, and I think trying to portray this action as scummy is very misleading and anti-town.
3) Opportunism: I'm just going to skip to the rebuttal on this because Prox is not the direct supporter of the Opportunism argument. That's Hinduragi. In fact, it's sort of strange why you're targeting Prox in the first place because he's not the only one attacking you and he's not the one who made some of these arguments.
4) Trying to push away suspicion: Let's line up some quotes, shall we?
Shotty wrote:4.Trying to push away suspicion- I have not tried this at all. I never said anything about anyone being mafia, i simply stated that even if G & H is a towny he will hurt the town.
Now I would like to rehash number four, but turn the tables. Prox, all you have done is tried to drive the band wagon of me being scum, thus pushing any suspicion away from you, which if you are mafia is a very very smart thing to do, but it is also the sign that you may be mafia.
...
So, finaly my point. By your theory of those four points equaling mafia. You sir = Mafia
Prox is accused of
1. Buddying
2. Contradicting (several times)
3. Opportunism
4. Trying to push away suspicion (repeatedly)
5. And Being a hypocrite
VOTE: Prox
The above would be a prime example of "trying to push away suspicion." Nice try though.
And in addition to this, there's more scumminess jumping out at me.
silverbullet wrote:2. @Shotty
Shotty wrote: yes i would hammer because that means others feel he would hurt the town as do I.
Why would you be willing to end the day so incredibly early? We have quite awhile to gather info on everyone... there are still people who haven't posted yet... and G&H's actions (not intentions) in my mind haven't really given me room for judgement yet.. also there still are two people that haven't even posted yet!
You didn't answer this question, but I'd really like you to. We have time to think about who to lynch, and hammering because other people think someone would hurt the town sounds like something scum would do.
Shotty wrote:Good and Honest wrote:
There is something that seems strange to me. I have already cited you saying: "Also we shouldn't be to quick to lynch, just fyi. If we kill a towny to quick it will hurt us, but if we take our time and really think it won't.". I certainly agree with this. But later, when asked by silverbullet999, you say that if in the next 2 hours you have the opportunity to cast the final vote to lynch me, you'll do it! I'm especially baffled by this because it has already been said here how bad it was for the town in my first game that I was lynched so quickly...
Ok about this, my play style is strange, kind of like yours. I am on the fence about you right now, but I'm not getting a scum read from you, just a bit of anti-town, but this morning i went and reread your play style and looked at one of your past game and realized that you aren't anti-town you just want to be 100% sure that your choice is correct unless you are need for the game to continue.
Yet another example of evading the question. And it's the same question. How coincidental.
Shotty wrote:Prox wrote:If you call defending myself logically and then attacking another person using perfectly valid points scummy, then I have a problem with you.
I used the exact same points on you that you used on me. I used logical points to defend myself and then attack you. So if you are calling me scummy, then you have a problem with yourself.
This is a logical fallacy, although I can't remember which one. Here's why. Prox makes an argument against you using certain points. You make the same argument against him using the same points. By making your argument work, you say the argument is flawed. But if the argument is flawed, why would you use it to call Prox scummy? It's a flawed argument, and would prove nothing.
In short, it's just a way you can defend yourself by using another player's good arguments against them, which is illogical and flawed in and of itself.
Shotty wrote:Prox wrote:You didn't explain anything about opportunism. Btw, when I say opportunism I mean that you went after G&H because it was the easy thing to do.
I am going after you and this isn't easy at all. You are the one who has it easy trying to attack me.
This too is a fallacy. You're denying that your attack on G&H was opportunistic by saying that your attack on Prox is not opportunistic. The latter does not disprove the former. You can be doing both at the same time.
Shotty wrote:
I bond, i don't buddy up
. Buddying up is choosing a single buddy to befriend and share blame with.
What, then, is your definition of bonding? I suspect it will be very similar to buddying up, except without the negative scum connotations.
Oh, and your signature is so passive-aggressive it's physically painful. Just an FYI
---
Aside from my Shotty argument, I have some other points to address. First off, G&H, I feel like you're misunderstanding what we'd like from you in terms of contribution. Asking question after question is helpful, but not contributive. The people who answer are contributing. You're just active lurking.
So, my questions to you: What arguments do you agree with so far? Who do you think is scummy? What do you think of the way people have been voting? What do you think about those lurking? Is Shotty OMGUSing or is Prox the scummy one? Answers to any and all of these would be wonderful, and I encourage you to provide more than what I've asked if you think it would be helpful to the town. Give us some concrete information and scumhunting, not an examination on what we think about theory and how the game is going so far.
Secondly, I'd like to point out that, in addition to those prodded, we haven't heard from Haylen in a while either, so that's something to keep in mind. And on that note,
Mod: You have me voting for both Haylen and Shotty, my vote should be on Shotty only.
Fixed! Thanks. ~KittyMo
