Mini #1007 (Game Over)

[AlmasterGM]

Hi.

[AlmasterGM]

Knowing me, I'd be likelier to attract doctors and investigation roles if I didn't claim, though.

This is the part I don't get. If you frequently bite cops and doctors, that means you consider yourself a highly valued player. As a high value target, you are also likely to bite the NK ... which, as a PGO, is a good thing. If you had just tried to play extremely pro-town, you probably would have avoided Cop, so the only possible loss would have been doctor. In my mind, it would have been worth the risk to not claim.

However, I can see the justification for claiming, so I don't think the claim in and of itself is scummy. It is the meta argument that makes it relevant - poor logic plus scum motivation for using that logic plus evidence that you used the same tactic before ....

Vote: Hoopla

[AlmasterGM]

WARNING! WARNING!

Scum

Village Idiot detected!

Seriously though, wtf. I don't even know how to respond to such blatant excuses, scrambling, and lies. At first I thought, "it's scummy," then I was like, "nah, it's just a VI." But really it's not just VI ... it's stupid scummy.

[AlmasterGM]

VI's are vigbait. Or D2/3 if there's no Vig.

[AlmasterGM]

True.. We'll give scums 2 turns to shoot the VI. I don't think vig (if he/she exists) should shoot the first turn though. Not shooting will force the scums to shoot the VI for their own safety.

Uhh, no. If there's a Vig, he should be shooting drmyshottyizsik in the face at the earliest opportunity.

...soooo, any chance of a one-shot day vig?

[AlmasterGM]

Wait, but if you think shotty is the VI, then why do you want him shot? Do you think he's scum?

The point of VIs is that (without very extensive meta information that we don't have) you can't really tell and they are dangerous in lylo. So they die.

But that's a sideshow. The main course is this Hoopla PGO shenanigans.

I buy it. Not because of the breadcrumb, those are silly. I buy it because I thought Hoopla claiming PGO was illogical and Hoopla usually isn't, so it seemed out of character. If this catches scum, it'll be play of the month … and the obvious target for scum-catchage is AGar. Unfortunately, I'm not really sold on him being scum just because he strongly opposed the claim. He had a meta reason to do so, so it doesn't seem THAT odd that he would think Hoopla was lying.

Hmmmmm.

[AlmasterGM]

Wanted to see what would happen, to be honest. Discussion so far has focused on two players. While not neccessarily bad, I wanted to potentially bring someone else into the fray to see how people would react. You struck me as a little under the radar (I know it's not very far into the game), so I thought it would be interesting to see how others would react.

So, what sorts of "interesting" things happened because of your vote and what implications do they have?

[AlmasterGM]

drmyshottyizsik, isn't it funny that we're participating in two games at the same time?

OMG!!!! G & H!! Ok i'll be nice to you in this game and give you a chance, for your choice of style i don't feel hurts anyone at all in this game type. I'm happy you're here with me

Helllllllllllo buddying.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't particularly like Almaster much at this point. Like I said, he latched onto my argument for his vote. Also, I dislike the notion of him directing a vig to waste their shot on drmyshottyizsik, when I feel the shot could be better used. I'd much rather use him as lynch-bait on an appropriate day, as I've seen the case come that there are appropriate days, and we'll probably have at least one day where it's ideal to lynch him pre-LYLO.

This reduces to

1) I latched.
2) You disagree with my theories on Vigging.

Disagreeing on Vig theory is a terrible reason to vote for me. For one, there's no reason why difference of opinions = scum. Second, you aren't even theoretically correct. Shotty doesn't "scream" town to me, he screams unreadable VI. Which seems like the PERFECT Vig shot in my book.

So the only actual vote justification is latching. Which is completely unsubstantiated because

1) I gave very clear reasons in my post why I was voting Hoopla. You can go re-read them if you want, but to say I just agreed with you is rather self-centered. My argument focused more on why I thought claiming PGO was a bad idea, not you. In other words, I didn't just say, "lol I agree with AGar. No no, the people doing that are redtail

In short, I agree with AGar.

And Zach.

Plus this.

I can get behind this wagon.

This is a MUCH more clear cut case of latching. Why aren't you voting for either of these two?

2) You give no reason as to why you prefer me as scum over VRK or shotty, even though we all voted the same way.

This is what gets me. In essence, he's saying that we should lynch shotty regardless of what we think of his alignment, simply because of this one incident and his inability to properly explain it. To that, I say no. If I think shotty is town, then **** it, I'm not voting for shotty, and as Vig I'm not shooting shotty. As for the initial Hoopla vote, basically your argument against Hoopla rests on the meta argument. Plus, there's this gem:

Misrep. I said, "you can't really tell." That means you don't have a read on them. Having a no-read VI in lylo is dangerous. Thus, shoot. If shotty ends up SCREAMING town, then fine, he lives.

The declarative statement, "The claim was illogical" has 2 problems: first of all, this is a very arguable point, and many would think it was logical. 2nd, why do you know think it was illogical, when earlier you said that you could understand the reasoning behind it.

1) The first point is an appeal to nonexistant authority, who are these "many people" and what are there reasons? You can't cite stats without the stats.

2) I very clearly stated my argument before. I said, I could SEE WHY somebody would do it (e.g., understanding why it is a bad claim is slightly complex, so somebody could have just not thought it all the way out and thought making the claim was a good move), but I thought it was a bad move overall and was surprised Hoopla made the play (because she usually does think things out all the way through). If you want to know precisely why I thought it was illogical, go read my previous post. I explained that it is worth the risk of hitting the doctor in order to nab scum.

Illogical does not necessarily equal scummy.

Contrdictory vote. You say illogical != scummy, but you're voting for me based on a supposed logical inconsistency.

Also, you're wrong. Being illogical alone isn't sufficient for a scumtell, but illogical combined with scum motiviation FOR being illogical supercharges the tell.

Right now,

Unvote. Vote: Zach

redtail's "declarative statement" (LOL at use of fancy labels to enhance otherwise silly content) argument is bad, but Zach looks the worse because he should know better than to endorse it. Also, his posts bite all the AGar analysis about "latching," and his vote is contradictory.

[AlmasterGM]

No see, the issue is you said that you could see the reasoning behind her claim at first. (Which indicates it's logical.) After she rescinded the claim, you said it was illogical in an attempt to backtrack and rationalize your initial stance after the fact. The action you committed that was picked up on was quite clear.

It doesn't indicate that. If somebody murders somebody, I can say "that's illogical, but I can see why they did it," emotions, thought it was the right thing, etc. I thought Hoopla claiming PGO was a BAD logical move, but the logic was a bit complex, so I thought it was possible she just thought it was a good idea when it wasn't.

Besides, I'm not going to vote Zach (who isn't coattailing as far as I can see) and redtail when you're starting to crumble already:

The only thing crumbling around here is your vote. The initial vote was a paragraph that read like this:

First he latched. *insert a lot of stuff about Vigging*

Except now you say the vigging isn't relevant, so the argument was

"He latched."

Real compelling.

In response to backtracking, there isn't any. I used part of your argument, part of my argument. Both were nessecary but not sufficent for the vote.

Or, if you insist there was backtracking, fine. My advocacy now is: both parts of the argument were necessary but not sufficient for the vote.

AlmasterGM, I have read your posts a few times and I can't seem to understand what exactly you found illogical - was it Hoopla's claim itself or this justification for it: "Knowing me, I'd be likelier to attract doctors and investigation roles if I didn't claim, though"? From your first post it sounds like it's the latter while your following posts seem to suggest it's the former...

It was that if she's likely to bite doctors, she's also likely to bite scumkill, and the risk-reward was worth it.

redtail later.

[AlmasterGM]

First of all, to the claim that I am latching: yeah, I suppose I am. And it will, of course, do no good to claim that I had independently come up with many of these points, and AGar simply beat me to the punch. I tried to differentiate my case as much as possible, but there's no getting around the fact that we had many of the same points. Such is life. You can't expect every single person on a wagon to come up with a unique, different case. That's neither reasonable or possible. At least I tried: Zach just copied my case and went with it.

Ok. So do you think AGar's original vote on me (which was based soley on latching) was unfounded, then? What about Zach?

You see, I actually agree with you that agreeing with other players isn't a bad thing. But other people don't agree with that and are being inconsistent about how they apply that standard (e.g., I'm scummy for using some of AGar's argument, but Zach isn't for posting "lol i agree." This makes no sense.

1. 2 people that I'm happy to name: myself and Hoopla. I would bet others here would agree, but I don't want to speak for anybody. And there are any number of reasons to think it might be a logical move (as noted by Hoopla, a PGO claim that the town generally believes is rather bad for scum).

2. If you see the pros and cons of such a play, why are you saying that it's definitely illogical? There are logical reasons to do it. It got rid of RVS, and it gave us plenty of material to work with. Even without the unclaim, you don't get to just state that it was an illogical play. That's what I was objecting to.

I don't get what the point of this argument is. Hoopla isn't even a PGO anymore. Why are my opinions on whether claiming PGO is a good or bad idea relevant?

If this debate actually matters, fine, we can sit around and argue. But it seems to me like this is 1) a theory smokescreen plopped in front of finding scum and 2) that the real issue is whether I changed my advocacy or not, not what the advocacy actually was. And the advocacy issue has already been addressed / is being debated below.

From what I understand, what you really mean is, "VI's that are unreadable are Vigbait." Is that accurate.

Yes.

If there is actually somebody else SCREAMING scum, then fine, you Vig them, but that usually isn't the case D1. AND OH LOOK, shotty is being a total moron and flipping between claiming scum and claiming town PR. Sounds like a mighty fine target for a VIGGIN'.

I didn't fully understand this section. Could you elaborate? At the time of the vote, you said the meta argument was the main reason, but now you claim that the claim was the main reason. Which is it? Because the way it was phrased, it didn't seem that both were "necessary but not sufficient."

They are BOTH important and need each other to exist.

Saying the argument was "mainly" about in prior posts was probably poor choice of words; I was merely trying to emphasize that AGar's argument alone was not enough to warrant the vote and that the other half of the analysis was cruically important.

If you think that this wasn't sufficiently outlined previously, then fine, feel free to think that I'm backpedaling. I'm not going to try and defend the semantics of my prior positions; I know what I meant and I am trying to be more clear now, but if it wasn't clear before and you don't get it now, there's nothing to be done. But what is more relevant is...

I don't get any of this line of attack. It's all like, lets hurl a thousand differnet poorly constructed arguments at AGM and see what happens. Why am I SCUM? Nobody has bothered to argue that at all except for Hoopla, and she's not even voting for me. WHOOSH.

VRK in particular, your vote is very uninformed, I addressed all of redtails argument in my previous post.

[AlmasterGM]

not really... even though the scum know that we know that they know ... etc., they still couldn't risk keeping a doctor around for more than a Day or two.

Three days later, he's still alive. WHAT DO?

Re: Almaster - I do believe he missed my new points about his repeated backtracking on multiple occasions. Thus, my entire case isn't latching.

No.

In response to backtracking, there isn't any. I used part of your argument, part of my argument. Both were nessecary but not sufficent for the vote.

Or, if you insist there was backtracking, fine. My advocacy now is: both parts of the argument were necessary but not sufficient for the vote.

Also, at one point your entire case WAS latching. That when away, so then you started on the backpedaling thing. It's like starting on one rock, then when that rock sinks into the water, you jump onto the next one.

Ok I have the flu and I am getting no enjoyment out of this game. Almaster is who I think is scum, but I don't have the energy to type out my whole case.

Cool story, bro. Maybe the game isn't so much boring as you are lazy and stupid.

Hoopla's wagon took 19 posts to get up to 4 votes.
Almaster's wagon took 5 posts to get up to three votes.
Other attempts to start wagons have stayed at or below two votes.

Hmm hmm. And people think Zach, VRK, and shotty are town ... because?

shotty especially. It's like, "crap wagon might form, QUICK LET ME RESTABILIZE AGM WAGON."

I don't like Hoopla's plan. At all. I'll accept the statistics that there is probably one protection role. However...

1) The probability of there being a relevant doctor save is low, especially if shotty is the one doing the saving.
2) shotty is a proven idiot and could still be lying town, meaning we out the doctor AND mislynch shotty.
3) The real value of the doctor comes from his secrecy. He can save claimed PRs, confirmed townies, and/or confirm people by stopping the scumkill. Trading away these benefits by revealing a real doctor so we can keep shotty around is a TERRIBLE trade. If shotty is doctor, scum will just roleblock him and we'll get nothing, not to mention the fact that shotty's stupidity makes him useless as a confirmed townie anyway.

In short, it's an elaborate form of rolefishing. Why Hoopla decided to do this could vary. She could be shotty's scumbuddy doing damage control, she could watto use all those statistics she compiled, or might legit think it is a good idea. I think

1) This is the second time Hoopla has made up some "plan" that revolves around town PRs.
2) If shotty is scum, Hoopla's plan looks VERY scummy.
3) If shotty is town, Hoopla probably is too. I don't see why scum-Hoopla would dig up stats that others were unlikely to produce in order to halt a mislynch on a VI.

[AlmasterGM]

Although I find Hoopla still dangerous and suspicious, my suspicion of her isn't solid. I am willing to single her out as an outstanding player within the group, but I am not confident enough to place a vote. I'm satisfied with watching for now.

This alone makes me want to vote Elleren.

But the fact that Hoopla is pushing the case makes me skeppptical.

In this post, G&H demonstrates the scummy tactics of not reading the entire thread, while projecting the same issue onto another player who is, by default, unlikely to be their buddy.

Agreed.

(ZOMG IM LATCHING).

[AlmasterGM]

In response to 2) - Are you kidding me? Going by the statistics, there is an 86% chance there is EXACTLY ONE protection role in the game. If I am scum with Shotty, he must be fakeclaiming, which means if this plan gains traction, there is an 86% chance of him being counterclaimed and then lynched.

This presumes that, if you are both scum, keeping shotty alive means anything at all to you. It doesn't. Shotty is a liability, and if there really is an 86% chance of there being a counterclaim, you know he's going to die at some point before the game is up anyway. Why would you let him sit around and do nothing for 2 days when you could just cash him in now for the identity of the town doctor?

[AlmasterGM]

Whoa, I didn't even realize that I had 3 votes already.

Ooooh, scared?

MAKE IT 4.

Unvote. Vote: Elleran.

Also,

FoS Zach

for tunneling on me like its his job.

Seriously, the only thing he has done the whole game is say, "lynch VI shotty" and "AGM is scum" while consistently trying to justify himself as little as humanly possible.

[AlmasterGM]

Popcorn is best. redtail, pick somebody.

Elleran continues to act scummy.

[AlmasterGM]

Not doctor.

Popcorn to Confidanon. Who has been AWOL and promised a post 2 days ago, btw.

[AlmasterGM]

Also, I really don't like the triple bandwagon vote at the end of the last page. Vote: AlmasterGM

...

I was the FIRST one of the three.

[AlmasterGM]

I was reading the thread, but I lost track of where the popcorn started and who had been popcorned.

If you've been reading the thread, care to share any of your thoughts on it?

[AlmasterGM]

There are soo many dumb people in this game.

[AlmasterGM]

@drmyshottyizsik, Elleran, and Good and Honest

WHO ARE THE SCUM AND

WHY?

[AlmasterGM]

@drmyshottyizsik, Elleran, and Good and Honest

WHO ARE THE SCUM AND

WHY?

Two out of three of these people have been actively hunting, for better or worse.


What's up with the recent need to dismiss people's comments as stupidity? Honestly, insults don't get you very far. Here's looking at you, Almaster and AGar.

Oh really?

First, your explanation sounds like it exempts AGar from your suspicions. Because you and AGar have played a game (or more) together before, you guys can easily read each other's meta and understand each other's strategy without direct PM or communication.

Second, I support lynching liars. I cannot disagree on your point that your claim/unclaim has brought many valuable discussion into place. However, I do not want to risk having a suspicious character in any LyLo situation. I understand this is a far-in-the-future argument, but lynching early poses less risk than later.

Third and finally, I support gonnano in his opinion on town having flexible mindset as well. I always try to play with an open mind, considering all possibilities. Perhaps some town characters might be more closed and some scums to be open/flexible, you cannot possibly assume that that is the case for all players. Your overarching assumption thus ceases to be a logical point but an opinionated assertion.

Vote Hoopla

That is the last vote / instance of scumhunting from Elleran. After that, she unvotes and does lot of fencesitting, "observing," and nothing. It was made

8 days ago.

And it wasn't even that good.

I tried not to jump on the wagon, but you're just too scummy

unvote
Vote: Elleran

This is the last vote from shotty. It is contentless and has no juistification. Almost everything before that surrounding that

8 days

consists of one-line nothingness.

And Good & Honest's posts are nothing more than fluffy, incredibly wordy summaries / commentaries on events that have already happened. And she has never even put a vote down. Ever.

Show me the "active hunting" that two out of these three people have been doing. Please.

[AlmasterGM]

Almaster-Does it really matter if you are insane or sane? You are a cop, who can use your role to find scum. Can you not? SSBF is a cop(so he says), who can use his role to find scum. Is there a difference? Seriously, look at the facts. Tell me the difference between SSBF and wicked. Who really is more scummy? Also I don't want to prove myself scum, if you cannot see the point, just forget about it.

Of course it matters. It delays and confuses my results so that the scum can render me essentially useless before I can do anything. If I get a guilty and claim it, we mislynch and scum know to roleblock/kill me from then on, which is the MOST LIKELY scenario to occur (since most people in the game are going to be town). The only way I can be relevant is if 1) by some stroke of luck I investigate the godfather and get a guilty, 1/10 chance of that happening, or 2) I get 2-3 investigations in so that I have a handful of innocents AND guilties, and then we mislynch the guilty and THEN know I'm insane and lynch the real scum. By which point we are probably in lylo and going to lose anyway.

So yeah, insane cop + deathmiller + godfather is PRETTY DIFFERENT from just sane cop.

And this matters because, in my opinion, SSBF is only marginally comparable to other scummy people in the game. Compare him and crypto - why is SSBF THAT much more scummy such that it's worth overlooking the cop issue?

[AlmasterGM]

Crap, wrong thread.

Mod: Edit out / delete post #292, please.

[AlmasterGM]

Elleran has been scumhunting. It's been almost entirely focused on Hoopla, and it's full of contradictions (see my previous posts/my vote), but it's been scumhunting. Lately he's been slacking off though.

So Elleran...

1) Tunnels Hoopla
2) The arguments in the tunnel aren't good at all
3) And she hasn't even done either of those in over a week

I don't see how you two (redtail and KNK) can defend this.

[AlmasterGM]

Guys! I'm not scum!

lol

[AlmasterGM]

I'm not defending. I'm calling you out on your misrepresentation.

Ok.

Where's the misrep?

[AlmasterGM]

There are soo many dumb people in this game.

[AlmasterGM]

Show of hands, who would lynch G&H if he doesn't complete the massclaim?

*Shows hand*

[AlmasterGM]

I would much rather proceed with the Elleran lynch and discuss G&H more during Day 2.

I dislike these cryptic promises of future information.

[AlmasterGM]

I didn't say he was hunting well or in a way that was beneficial. But saying that he has done no hunting at all isa misrepresentation. Do I think that Elleran's logic makes any sense? Not really. But to me, when someone says that someone hasn't been scumhunting, it means they haven't been contributing. Instead of attacking the weak points that Elleran has made, gonnano made a false attack to seem like he was adding something new to the case.

Goooo semantics. Even using your definitions, he hasn't contributed anything for over a week at this point, and if you just use a general definition, I was completely accurate because even what he did "contribute" was pretty awful.

What I don't like is that you keep saying I'm "misrep-ing," which puts awful negative and offensive connotations onto an argument that is, at the core, just semantics.

Listen to him he herds noobies!!!

Just because you are probably town doesn't give you a license to be useless the rest of the game.

I am pretty indifferent to lynching G&H vs Elleren. However, if we are going to move the wagon, it has to happen soon. Unless I'm forgetting something, I don't think we have claims from Elleran or G&H, so the amount of time left to do something right now AND leave space for contingencies is REALLY small.

[AlmasterGM]

Gheez, I came here to get away from the Newbie queue for a while

Man, if that's true, I feel bad for you, because this game is has more n00bs in it than the average newbie game. And the worst part is, unlike the newbie queue where they are trying to learn and improve, here people are just set on being anti town because they are dumb and think it's cool.

ANYWAY, we have very little time to shift this wagon and G&H posts very inconsistently, so I think we should just proceed with the Elleren lynch. It's not like we're really settling for less, or anything.

[AlmasterGM]

The reason I'm saying you represented him is because you said he hadn't been hunting, he had. Just very poorly. There's a difference. His contributions should be questioned, yes. To say he hasn't hunted is another thing.

SEMMMMMANNNNNNNTICS.

[AlmasterGM]

Oh boy, only a short way into Day 2 and there's already votes on my two top suspects? It's like Christmas in the summer.

Vote: Zachrulez

I 100% agree that Zach was scummy as hell yesterday (and OH HEY, I was saying that over and over of yesterday buuut nobody cared) and his arguments today against ConfidAnon are bad as well. In addition to the contradiction, ConfidAnon really has nothing to gain from misrepping the hammer vote (like that isn't going to be fact checked), so trying to use that as offense against CA is just silly.

HOWEVER, If G&H doesn't get in here and fucking wow my socks off with some original analysis and a VOTE, then he can die die die. I completely disagree with redtail - the refusal to claim has nothing to do with town vs scum motivation because it does nothing for him regardless of his side ... so it's clearly just stupidity, which has nothing to do with alignment. And if you put that issue asside, you're left with a refusal to vote and a handful of obsolete, obfuscating text wall posts. Which is scummy.

ALSO SHOTTY JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE PROBTOWN DOESN'T GIVE YOU A LICENSE TO BE A USELESS MORON. PLAY THE DAMN GAME YOU SIGNED UP FOR.

[AlmasterGM]

Does your playstyle mean you can't claim? If you can explain that to me, I might be okay with your refusal to claim.

What? Why would that be OK? If his playstyle ALSO meant he couldn't vote or post content, would that be OK?

[AlmasterGM]

I agree with Hoopla's graduate thesis because it makes a lot of sense from my perspective.

BUT, I disagree with the full scumteam call. I think G&H should replace either Vel or Kid Know Nothing. Probably Vel if I had to call it right now. There is absolutely NOTHING town about G&H. And I don't give a shit about his ONE GAME of meta. If he flips town this game, then fine he's a certified idiot whose username should be changed to Bad and Stupid, and I'll never play with him ever again. But objectively, right here and right now, he is WAY more likely to be scum.

[AlmasterGM]

Oh man, I hope he's an alt. That would be swell. Because then he would be BANNNNNNED from the site. For playing in a newbie game not as a newbie.

On topic, also notice that Kid Know Nothing is (weakly and somewhat indirectly) defending G&H. Hrmm, hrmm, more links.

[AlmasterGM]

He's V/LA.

[AlmasterGM]

Unfortunately I will be V/LA August 1-9, with the possibility of getting back the 8th or maybe even the 7th. Luckily, the way this works out with my timezone I should be able to post right up until the deadline of Day 1, be absent for the Night, and get right back in Day 2 soon after it starts.

In other news, do I ever loooove activity.

[AlmasterGM]

And well, "For one, there's no reason why difference of opinions = scum"

Fine, but G&H's playstyle is still dumb and anti-town, don't you agree? Even if you "get it?"

Zach not being around for a full week is kinda problematic; in addition to being annoying, according to him, he won't be around to claim (if needed) until 4 days before the deadline. That's cutting it a BIT close in case we want to move things around, BUT I think so long as we have a suitable backup candidate lined up (*cough* G&H *cough*) then we will be fine.

Also, where's redtail? He hasn't posted since Tuesday.

Mod, can we get a prod?

[AlmasterGM]

G&H, at the top of your next post, can you post in large, bold letters who you think is most likely to be scum?

[AlmasterGM]

O hai Zach.

Posting on the site?

Why not come by and say hi?

[AlmasterGM]

His playstyle isn't scummy because I believe he'd do it as either alignment. It is very anti-town and damaging, and I am not usually an advocate for policy lynches, but this is one of the few times where I feel it would be apt.

It's apt because if he actually would do it either way, then there is absolutely no way to determine whether he is town or scum. And seeing as he doesn't help town, lynching him is a good move.

And I don't even buy that he'd do it "either way." I think his play is pretty straight out scummy in this game. The end.

Also, what is your case on Zach beyond the vote analysis?

His day 1 play? Read it - it's pretty bad.

[AlmasterGM]

AlmasterGM, you once again didn't address my comments/interrogating of you. About your question - I won't post anything in large, bold letters

You won't answer my question but I'm supposed to answer yours?

GUESS WHAT? NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

[AlmasterGM]

LOL HAI GUYZ IM

GOOD AND HONEST

ALMASTERGM AND I HAVE A VERY UNIQUE PLAYSTYLE.

IT'S CALLED I DON'T READ POSTS BY OR ANSWER QUESTIONS ASKED BY A PLAYER NAMED GOOD AND HONEST.

AND ITS NOT SCUMMY CAUSE IT'S MY SELF-DECLARED META. LOL IM SO PROTOWNNNNNN.

HATERS GONNA HATE, DONT LYNCH ME PL0X.

[AlmasterGM]

I'M GOING TO POST IN ALL CAPS WHILE CONTRIBUTING NOTHING TO THE CONVERSATION BUT RUDE OBSERVATIONS. EL OH EL OH EL.

Seriously Almaster, this is why I don't like you as town. G&H has not sat there and said "Look at me, I'm pro-town." Rather, he's been defending his play style as not being scummy. This post was completely unnecessary.

Read the rest of the game. I've been contributing plenty. That one post was clearly a mockery of Good and Honest designed to show why he is objectively scummy. And Good and Honest HAS been doing those things - he has been using a self-delcared meta to be anti-town, and even if he does offer some thoughts (most of which are outdated), he refuses to vote, answer questions, or tell us who the scum are. And then he tells us his play is "Good and Honest" in post one? No, no, no.

Same to you Almaster. You have a vote, don't you? Use that to express your feelings over G&H's unwillingness to answer you. Same to you Hoopla.

I've got that vote on Zach right now because he is way more scummy, but that has already basically been decided, so I'm spending most of my time today talking about Good and Honest.

Kid Know Nothing says he's not defending Good and Honest, but it is really starting to irk me that he always seems to find a way to attack me over my attacks on Good and Honest. Normally I'd say scum would be very wary of chainsawing, but if Good and Honest is scum, he supposedly can't lie, so the team might not have to choose between defending him or cutting him lose entirely. Chainsaw seems like an excellent way to resolve the differences between those two options, so if Good and Honest flips scum, Kid Know Nothing deserves a very, very close look.

[AlmasterGM]

Ugh, so many walls of text.

And in that one post and a few others, Almaster. You've been nothing but rude. You could have said that in a much more civil way.

Fine, I'm being rude. I'm extremely annoyed by Good and Honest and so long as it doesn't cross "the line," I'm going to continue to be that way. Personally, I think the REAL rude one in this game is him, since everybody else here is playing as optimally as they can to win, whereas he is just playing to satisfy his own selfish desire to enjoy a "Good and Honest" playstyle.

And again, exactly how have I been defending anything that has been asked of G&H? Do I hate it when three or more townies decide that they aren't going to answer someone's questions, thus limiting discussion, thus limiting the places I can look to find scum? You better believe it. The whole point of that is limiting conversation is scummy, and if not only scummy, it is most certainly anti-town.

I'll answer the questions, but I don't see how the "anti-town" sentiment doesn't apply with double the magnitude to Good and Honest. His playstyle is JUST AS IF NOT MORE anti-town, but you keep saying that "I can see where he's coming from," and things like that. Why is he allowed to have this self-declared meta but I'm not?

AlmasterGM, I might not have done exactly what you wanted me to but I still shared thoughts which were related to your question. You, on the other hand, continually neglect my questions/comments towards you.

You refuse to vote, which is OBJECTIVELY anit-town. I'm refusing to answer your questions, which you say is anti-town. Just because your username is Good and Honest doesn't excuse you making plays that are bad for the town. The reality is you are playing this way because you think it's more fun. Why can't I say "it's more fun to not answer G&H's questions," and then never answer them? What's the difference between those two?

And don't come back here and tell me you are contributing in different ways. I don't care. Refusing to vote is still anti-town because it doesn't let us do wagon analysis, which as Hoopla has demonstrated, is a large part of the game.

Regarding your comments towards me - did you actually look at my three other games, which I have linked to? In my opinion, the things you say I'm doing (or not doing) here are the same things that I've done (or not done) in my previous three games. If you find something about me in our current game which is different from my other games, you're welcome to say that.

I don't care what your meta is, you deserve to be lynched Day 1 in every single game you ever play in until you stop with this nonsense playstyle.

About my "Good and Honest" playstyle - "good" means that I don't want to do "bad" things (this is mostly related to potential games where I'd be a mafioso); "honest" means that I don't want to lie - and later in post #456 you yourself state about me: "he supposedly can't lie". So I don't know what you're saying "No, no, no" to concerning my playstyle.[/quote]
What is a "bad" thing? Personally, I think your refusal to vote and the other rediculous aspects of your playstyle are "bad," as does

everybody else in the game.

Also, AlmasterGM, you insist that Kid Know Nothing is "defending" me. First of all, if a player is defending another player, does that really reveal something about their roles? Second, even if certain posts by Kid Know Nothing can be counted as "defense", I think some of redtail896's posts can also be counted as "defense". Yet you have stated more than once that Kid Know Nothing is "defending" me but haven't said anything about redtail896 "defending" me. Why are you using such selectivity?

Because Kid Know Nothing is chainsawing. I have already explained why this would be an apt move between you two if you were scumbuddies.



ANYWAY, NONE OF THIS EVEN MATTERS RIGHT NOW BECAUSE WE ARE LYNCHING ZACHRULEZ BECAUSE HE IS SCUM.

[AlmasterGM]

Is ConfidAnon posting elsewhere on the site?

The reason I'm asking is because Zach's play is uncharacteristically bad, whereas I don't know anything about ConfidAnon.

[AlmasterGM]

AlmasterGM, it's not my intention at all to be rude. I'm sad if you perceive it that way. About my unwillingness to vote being "detrimental to the town" - in my other game with drmyshottyizsik, I have argued that this is actually detrimental to the MAFIA - because it makes it more difficult for the mafia to lynch innocent townspeople.

Using that logic, none of us should ever vote and then we will never lynch an innocent townsperson.

Except that doesn't work, does it, because then we will never lynch scum either and we will eventually lose. This is why your playstyle is selfish. If only one person (you) does it, then everyone can get by, but if multiple people start playing like you, the game degrades into nothing.

PROVE ME WRONG. I DARE YOU. I WILL ARGUE ABOUT THIS FOREVER.

I'm not playing this way simply because it's "more fun" - if I play like most people play, I won't have ANY fun. Will you have NO fun at all if you answer my questions? After all, Mafia is a social game - i.e., there should be interactions between the players. If someone refuses to interact with someone else, that makes the game less interesting, I think.

Wrong. Your playstyle is anti-town. Everybody else in the game says so, and if you make a poll in MD, everybody there will say so too. You are playing this way because YOU want to, and so you are selfish.

And to answer your question, yes, actually. Answering your questions is not at all fun and if I didn't feel an obligation to this game I signed up for I would never read anything written by you or talk to you again ever in my life.

I have to say, AlmasterGM, that I completely disagree with your idea - "We're lynching Zachrulez and nothing else matters". It certainly does matter to have an ongoing discussion about what is happening in our game.

Other things matter, but not when the other things become the main topic for debate and the primary lynch candidate slips into the shadows and evaporates. Which is WHAT IS HAPPENING.

By the way, I find it interesting that you say: "Zach's play is uncharacteristically bad". Would you explain what about Zachrulez's way of playing in this game is different than usual?

He usually doesn't suck so much and act so scummy.

[AlmasterGM]

As I've said repeatedly, I'll lynch Zach or Good and Honest.

Kid Know Nothing wouldn't be bad, but he's a distant third.

[AlmasterGM]

I am unwilling to lynch G&H until somebody presents a case that doesn't reduce to a policy lynch. Actually, I might present that case; I think G&H's logic has a bunch of holes (some of which I was trying to point out above), but I don't think it's the best thing to do with this little time left.

But that's the problem. You CAN'T case him, because 1) he never votes, so there's no wagon analysis and 2) anytime he does something that would normally be considered scummy, he writes it off as part of his self-declared Good and Honest meta.

[AlmasterGM]

Go ahead and try, but I'll bet you a large sum of money that if you try and catch him doing anything, he either 1) bury it in a giant text wall with some sort of vague question or fluff-response as a rebuttal or 2) tell you that it's part of his playstyle.

Case in point - everybody agrees that his ENTIRE PLAYSTYLE is anti-town and predicated on BAD LOGIC, yet he ignores us all and keeps feeding off lines about how he HAS to be Good and Honest.

[AlmasterGM]

If this game no lynches I will serious explode.

[AlmasterGM]

If this game no lynches I will serious explode.

[AlmasterGM]

lol shotty you don't have to be so obv about not reading the thread.

[AlmasterGM]

Zach did claim.

[AlmasterGM]

Hey guys, like I posted in my other games, I'm

V/LA until the 25th.

I'll read and post something by then.

[AlmasterGM]

Holy fucking gambit batman.

I have to go show some freshmen what a library is.

Then I'll be back to process all this ridiculousness and post.

[AlmasterGM]

Ok.

First of all, sorry Hoopla, but your gambit was pretty obv. If I were mafia running against it, I would've played into it instead of just fakeclaiming (or at least strongly considered doing so). Chances of gunsmith + cop is low, and claiming Vig when there haven't been any shots is also weird. Thus, I don't buy your argument that redtail is cleared. If he's scum, simply protesting that he didn't have a gun and praying for a diversion seems like the optimal play.

Second, I don't get why you investigated gonnano. After D1, gonnano seemed very town. You say you wanted to clear up the Elleran wagon, but I simply do not understand why you would choose to gunsmith on one of the most townie people on board. I also question the logic of choosing the Elleran wagon in general; I feel like that gunsmith shot could have been much better utilized on somebody like VRK, who is lying far off the radar.

Finally, I don't like the way you are engineering the rest of this to play out. You are currently claiming gunsmith. If you're telling the truth, then scum have to deal with you. They aren't going to go hunting for other PRs. There is no reason we wouldn't off-put the massclaim until tomorrow so we have the chance to get more information.

But all that said, I don't see why you would fakeclaim gunsmith, since if you lie, you would just lynched tomorrow. Hrm. Gonnano does look like scum, then, I suppose.

For my scum picks, I still think Good and Honest is a good lynch. Zach's attacks on him

reek

of last-ditch bussing. Zach might have been playing poorly, but he's not an idiot. I think he knew he was going to be in trouble D2. Good and Honest himself is impossible to evaluate because he never does anything, so I think we have to consider that interaction really strongly. We also have this interaction:

I would strongly advise against lynching G&H today, though. I would much rather proceed with the Elleran lynch and discuss G&H more during Day 2.

This comes after gonnano has a series of interactions with G&H that garner both content and indicate that gonnano thinks G&H looks a bit scummy. He then drops G&H almost entirely on D2, at least in terms of scumhunting him. Given Hoopla's investigative result on gonnano, this mysterious "interact-but-then-drop-it-for-no-reason" tact by gonnano looks pretty bad for the two of them.

[AlmasterGM]

Why are we massclaiming? I get that we don't want to accidentally lynch a PR, but we don't need to massclaim for that. Given the huge target on Hoopla's back (IF she's telling the truth), why would we tip our entire hand when we could hold it for a little longer and get some valuable information?

[AlmasterGM]

Why wouldn't we just have somebody claim IF they have relevant information? Also, why would somebody surface with a guilty? Do you really think there's a cop AND a gunsmith?

[AlmasterGM]

HUURRRR, there's so many gambits I lose track of what's actually going on.

Still disagreeing with massclaim, unless the cop has a guilty or can claim an innocent on a person we are about to lynch, I don't see the value. But if EVERYONE else wants to, I won't be like Good and Honest and refuse to partake.

gonnano, Hoopla is better at scum than town. Don't use that as a mechanism for reading Hoopla. Also remember that as the one who has compiled all the statistics and norms, she knows exactly how to manipulate and evade them. This whole gunsmith gambit has set me silly.

[AlmasterGM]

That's a shame - because you can actually glean some solid information from it if you think about it logically. Unless redtail thought it was a gambit, which seems very unlikely from his responses of trying to determine my sanity and his adamance he doesn't have a gun - it is pretty obvious he is town. Scum in this scenario would be decidedly unsure, even if they were sensing a gambit, and I didn't actually have information on them - but the fact the information I claimed to have was accurate, it means scum can never know for sure, and would certainly not commit to one answer so decisively as redtail is. If he were scum, he virtually signs any hope of survival away UNLESS it was gambit - and even if redtail thinks I might of been lying about my results, he certainly wouldn't have known if I'd follow through on them.

I already analyzed this argument. Redtail had very few chances of survival even if your play WASN'T a gambit. You were claiming gunsmith, so him claiming cop looks bad. There's been no Vig shots the past two nights despite there being ample targets to Vig. At the point where your play pretty clearly could have been a gambit and there was hardly anything to gain from fakeclaiming, I think what he did (deny having a gun) would be actually be the optimal scum play.

This isn't to say that he IS scum, merely that I don't think he is at all town because of your gambit. And I'm not "dismissing" the gambit at all - I'm just saying that I don't think it shows exactly what you are saying it does.

[AlmasterGM]

Hi new page. ConfidAnon can die.

[AlmasterGM]

Vote: ConfidAnon

[AlmasterGM]

Guys seriously, you need to either argue with Hoopla about why we should do something else, or do what she says. You can't just sit around and be like, "HURRR DURRRRRRR LETS DO N0THING LOL."

[AlmasterGM]

Oh good, multiple people online. We can talk.

Why do you think there will just be one? Are you deliberately fishing for that information?

How is this worse than a massclaim. Isn't massclaim just one giant massive fish?

AGM, have you ever actually gotten results by saying stuff like that? You didn't say who you were talking about, so no one knows what you even mean, and even if you had I very much doubt that you would have inspired them to change anything with that post.

I do get results, actually. Hoopla has been speaking very calmly most of this time and is not getting activity. Trying a different tact can't hurt. Besides, I shouldn't even have to tell people to play the game. They should be doing it on their own.

[AlmasterGM]

That's right, because it's obvious. So obvious that you pointing it out will never make a difference because everyone already knows it.

If it's so obvious then why aren't people doing it?

[AlmasterGM]

I like this so much.

Because if it's a lie, we lynch scum.

And if it's the truth, Good and Honest goes BYE BYE BYE.

OH BABY, THERE HAS NEVER BEEN A MORE WIN-WIN SITUATION THAN THIS.

After all, even though gonnano is going to flip mafia ('cause even if the claim isn't LULZ, the "I looked it up but whoops I can't find it" part definitely is. Shame you had to blow that perfect fakeclaim RITE?), but the real scum here is G&H. He needs to be flushed down the toilet and never be seen again.

Unvote. Vote: gonnano

[AlmasterGM]

VT here.

[AlmasterGM]

This game needs more votes.

[AlmasterGM]

No posts in 24 hours?

Come on.

[AlmasterGM]

If I had to put my money on who was the scum between the two of them up until about 2-3 pages ago, I would have put everything I own on G&H, but gonnano's whole handling of the situation in general was pretty poor. So I'm in a toss-up right now.

FORTUNATELY, since they are both confirming themselves as lovers, IT DOESN'T MATTER. ONE PROBABLY ISN'T TOWN. PUT A VOTE DOWN.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't like the Vel AtE "kill me please, it's good for the town" show. It seems designed to generate cognitive dissonance. If you agree with it, then it's weird because you're voting for town, but if you think he's lying scum, then you have to give him what he wants (e.g., kill him). Either way, it's bleh.

But that's for tomorrow. The play for today is clearly the lovers.

[AlmasterGM]

You like ConfidAnon more?

[AlmasterGM]

I really, really, really want to lynch VRK. I stand by the post I made before the lynch that his playstyle reeks of cognitive dissonance. However, I also like ConfidAnon lynchage, and Hoopla was pretty heavily opposed to a VRK lynch, sooo...

Fortunately, we have two lynches. I'll go check them both out again and report back.

I'm not really sure how to look at the G&H interactions between people. I'll try later tonight.

I tried. It's extremely difficult. His posts are incredibly verbose and he talked about so many different topics that I couldn't really decipher anything out of them. What I do want to look for is who DEFENDED G&H. Given his playstyle, I think there would have been heavy temptation from the scumteam to try and save him with the VI-but-town defense.

[AlmasterGM]

The point of the question is that G&H most likely wouldn't have voted for the NK. It'd break his playstyle, which he has been very adament on not breaking. He wouldn't even vote, unless absolutely required. Given that, wouldn't G&H likely leave the kill to their partner?

I'm with VRK on this one - what is the point of this analysis? Also, whether or not it happens to be true, am I the only one that thinks this concept is kinda bizarre and that it would be extremely odd to just

think

of out of the blue? KKN bringing this up is giving off that very distinct insider information vibe.

[AlmasterGM]

Ugh.

The issue is that KKN's argument about G&H refusing to send kills actually

makes sense

, but it still seems so weird that he would think of that argument if it hadn't happened to him. This creates a paradox because if he knows it happened then he's cleared, but if it didn't happen, then he's not cleared. The possibilities I draw are these:

1) He's scum with G&H and G&H expressed an initial resistance to sending in the kill, but later relented. This gave KKN the idea for the tracker clearing ploy.
2) He's town and just happened to just think of the possibility out of the blue.

To me, possibility 1) seems more likely. The fact that G&H claimed despite saying he wouldn't claim earlier shows that he is willing to break his playstyle in certain circumstances. "Being scum" and having to send in a kill seems like something that might fit the bill.

HOWEVER.

I also feel like letting ConfidAnon off the hook is a huge mistake. This guy has been scummy the whole game, and his lynchage was Hoopla's dying wish (and she was right about a LOT of shit).

HRMMMMMMMM.

Redtail, I'm really interested in what you have to say about VRK, because right now he's coming in third on the scumzlist.

[AlmasterGM]

Please, break apart my logic.

As I've said repeatedly, I'll lynch Zach or Good and Honest.

However, I find the belief that 2 scum were bussing each other very unlikely.

For reasons already explained, I'm not sure that I'm so in favor of CA. Personally, I'm torn between VRK and

AGM.

[AlmasterGM]

Your entire defense of CA is that he would've been double-bussing. But if I was scum, then I would have been doing the EXACT same thing.

Which means you are taking the EXACT same argument and saying CA isn't scum, but I

could

be.

If I could be scum, then so could CA. And I know I'm not scum, so.

[AlmasterGM]

Also, what do you think about KKN?

[AlmasterGM]

You weren't bussed as hard by Zach and G&H though. And anyway, you're just leading me to the conclusion that VRK is the last scum.

More on KKN later today; I have class to go to.

What on earth are you talking about? Zach never even VOTED for ConfidAnon, he voted for ME. Multiple times. And G&H never voted, so how could he have "bussed?"

[AlmasterGM]

Redtail, AGM and CA are clear IMO. It's either KKN or me.

AHHHHHHHH STOP, every time I start to think you're town you use this argument and then I don't think you're town anymore .

VRK VS CA VS KKN. Two lynches left.

It's soooooo hard.

[AlmasterGM]

I think it's decent enough that I am strongly leaning towards lynching KKN today.

However, they said to wait for a bit, and I'm willing to do that.

[AlmasterGM]

Three days is long a wait enough.

Vote: KKN

[AlmasterGM]

Sorry for not posting for a while, I've been insanely busy and have only really had time to pay attention to one or two games at a time and this one is moving the slowest, so...yeah.

I'll double check everything tomorrow, but based on the past 5 posts or whatnot, I don't think I'm changing my mind.

[AlmasterGM]

CA coasting right now is making me extremely uneasy. KKN has not improved.

VRK is last on my list of the trio...and it's a distant last.. Redtail, I don't think I can go along with that vote.

[AlmasterGM]

Vote: No lynch

[AlmasterGM]

No, I don't want to add anything. I don't see why we are feeding the scum information right now. We should be no lynching, and that's it.

[AlmasterGM]

I do find your insinuation that I am scum amusing, though.

[AlmasterGM]

If you were insinuating it's redtail, that is even more amusing.

[AlmasterGM]

Redtail's argument makes lots of sense.

But we still no-lynch.

Because even considering all of redtail's arguments, there is ALSO the microscopic possibility that redtail is scum and that he chose not to kill (I'm assuming no kill was a choice at this point because I'm not doctor either and I VRK wouldn't push for self-lynch as doc) because he didn't want to raise questions as to why he was still around in lylo.

Yes, that's a boatload of WIFOM. And I don't buy it at all. Like, 99.99% sure it's not the case. The most likely possibilities is either 1) scum wanted to drop the WIFOM nuke (70%) or 2) Equinox-scum who doesn't like his odds against VRK, as per redtail's theories (30%).

But we still no-lynch, just to be 100% safe. We aren't going to walk into LOLing scum because we did something stupid.

[AlmasterGM]

Why don't you just tell us who you want to lynch and then we can take that into consideration?

[AlmasterGM]

It wasn't that he brought it up out of the blue, it was that he thought of the idea that G&H might not submit a kill because of their playstyle and thus somebody was town, or something. It seemed like something that very well could be true ... but it was so specific and read so deeply into G&H's playstyle that it felt like insider information to me (e.g., he was scum and knew this because G&H told him so). Not something you would just think of out of the blue.

Obviously, that was not the case.

[AlmasterGM]

Depends on the situation. If it is extremely close and coming down to the wire, then I'll get it together and go back and re-read the game closely. If the game is just going through normal progressions, then I usually don't read anything except what's come up with my last post. And, if I'm busy and there's a lot of text, I don't feel too bad about skimming.

AFA this game goes, I was not paying incredibly close attention until yesterday and right now.

[AlmasterGM]

Sooooo how are those re-reads coming?

[AlmasterGM]

The whole "unvote to prevent quickhammer" move is one of the silliest things that happens on this site. Quickhammering is scummy. Unless it's lylo, why would we want to remove a chance for someone to out themselves as obvscum?

[AlmasterGM]

Wowwwwwwwwwwww, the vote comes down already. You don't even wait for me to respond. Fortunately, I know why. It's because all of your arguments are objectively false. Yes, objectively. It's not even "he said, she said." They are just Not. True.

Unfortunately, I have like infinite work to do right now, so me proving that is not happening until tomorrow night at the earliest, Wednesday at the latest.

[AlmasterGM]

P.S. I am actually laughing right now this "case" is so bad. I can't waaaait to respond to it.

[AlmasterGM]

Urglklegush I stayed up until 5am last night studying for my midterm. I really need sleep. Post tomorrow.

[AlmasterGM]

Vote: Equinox

Thanks for pointing out the V/LA, I did forget to post it here. POST COMING FOR REAL TODAY, SERIOUSLY. Nobody worry, we have plenty of time to close this out.

[AlmasterGM]

That gambit was absolutely poisonous to scum. Being forced to keep Hoopla around to kill town with pinging scumdar (AGar) and the doctor (drmyshottyizsik) was painful enough, and now Hoopla just gave town a confirmed person for them to trust. There's only so many kills that can be done on a single night.

Therefore, the first step would be to somehow deny the results and make town suspect redtail896. AlmasterGM almost succeeded, except that I had to go reread Day 3 and then look at the timestamps. No dice, bud. WIFOMing town with a non-action on Night 4 was a nice touch, too (and if it was an accident, well, it almost worked in your favor).

1) Equinox is reading WAY to deep into this. My analysis of the redtail scenario was 100% objectively legitimate. In the event that redtail had been scum, playing into Hoopla's claim by denying having a gun would have absolutely been the correct play. I already gave my analysis why.

Chances of gunsmith + cop is low, and claiming Vig when there haven't been any shots is also weird.

Equinox is putting some REALLY heavy spin on this arg to fabricate this "scum motivation." Occam's razor this garbage - all I did was analyze the situation at hand and come to a series of potential conclusions.

2) The argument has no logical followup. I never tried to get redtail lynched, and I considered him town for most of the time after. This "scum motivation" is meaningless because it never goes anywhere.

here's no pro-town motivation to lurking for all of Day 5

With regard to the first post, I gave a very clear reason for not posting much and justified it. My actions were the objectively optimal play. We should NOT have been feeding the scum information then - there was simply no reason to do so.

This is the second time Equinox is putting heavy spin on objectively correct plays in order to make them look scummy. He is trying to mind-trick people into overthinking the situation here ... which, if we are going to play the scum-motiviation game here, makes perfect sense because he is the obv-lynch, so he NEEDS to create confusion in order to slip by as scum.

Where does AlmasterGM stand? "Well, maybe it's Equinox, but there's that possibility that it's redtail896 WIFOMing us all."

Massive misrep. Equinox blatantly CUTS OFF THE PART OF THE POST WHERE I EXPLICTLY STATE REDTAIL IS "99.99% not scum." This is the educational equivalant of citing an article and then cutting all the negative "not" style words out to make it say the exact opposite of what it's supposed to. The fact that Equniox is misrepping so hard here shows how desparate he is to get me mislynched.

...and that's the end of Equinox's "case." It had lots of pretty blue font, nice links, and strong language, but broken down it was a lot of misquoting and overthinking.

NOW HERE'S THE IMPORTANT PART: DON'T LET EQUINOX USE THIS POST, #919, AS AMMO. I know what Equinox's play is going to be here ... he is going to try and engage in a really complicated back and forth with me, attempt to win, and then say that it proves I'm scum. THAT IS NOT THE CASE. Equinox had the WHOLE THREAD to read and he only found those two crappy points. Don't let him blow them up into something more.

So, we've already seen that Equniox is scum because of the desparate way he's attacking me, but in case we aren't sold on that, here's some other random independent arguments against him.

1) Hoopla said we should vote ConfidAnon as her dying wish. Her vote analysis was SPOT ON about EVERYTHING else in this game, there is NO REASON to believe it's failing now.
2) Equinox misrepping the shit out of me.
3) The no-kill making perfect sense coming from him - he blabbed for an eternity yesterday (when we should've just insta-no-lynched), showing a clear desire to extend the day before he submitted the kill.
4) THE FACT THAT HE REPLACED CONFIDANON, WHO WAS SCUMMY AS HELL AND WE ALL KNOW IT.
5) SEE NUMBER #4.

And then there's also the other random "lolwuts" that have to be true if I'm scum - like the fact that I would have been pwnbussing Zach and had been CALLING G&H SCUM FOR, LIKE, ETERNITY.

God, this is SO clear-cut. VRK, it's up to you. I'm a busy person, so I'm going to stop typing now, but do let me know if you have any questions or (for some reason) want me to go hunt down more evidence. I don't think it's necessary, but whatever floats your boat. I know Equinox had to try REALLY HARD on his re-read to find dirt on me 'cause he's scum, but in this case, it shouldn't really be that difficult because why is is scum is yelling at you starting on this VERY PAGE.

[AlmasterGM]

A moment of incredible stupidity (on my part).

So when I make an objectively correct play that has some extremely remote chance of having sum motivation, I'm auto-scum, but when you make an OBJECTIVELY BAD PLAY with LOTS OF SCUM MOTIVATION, we are supposed to just write it off as "you being stupid."

Nice double standard.

[AlmasterGM]

Seriously, though, AlmasterGM cannot say he has no responsibility here, either. He pushed a lynch on KKN ("How would KKN have just thought of G&H's personality out of the blue? Gotta be insider information!") that was disproved waaaaay back on Day 1 when G&H posted about his playing style.[/quote]
If this was so obvious then why didn't somebody else point this out at the time? Answer: because it flew over EVERYONE'S heads because G&H posted massive text walls that nobody could be expected to remember.

But if we're on the topic of who pushed what lynches, let's recall that I ALSO pushed lynches on Zach and G&H, who OH LOOK WERE BOTH SCUM. HERP DERP. Meanwhile, what was ConfidAnon even doing? Nobody KNOWS because he played lurk-o-tron-wish-o-wash the whole game hrmmm hrmmmmmmmmmm.

[AlmasterGM]

FIXED:

Seriously, though, AlmasterGM cannot say he has no responsibility here, either. He pushed a lynch on KKN ("How would KKN have just thought of G&H's personality out of the blue? Gotta be insider information!") that was disproved waaaaay back on Day 1 when G&H posted about his playing style.

If this was so obvious then why didn't somebody else point this out at the time? Answer: because it flew over EVERYONE'S heads because G&H posted massive text walls that nobody could be expected to remember.

But if we're on the topic of who pushed what lynches, let's recall that I ALSO pushed lynches on Zach and G&H, who OH LOOK WERE BOTH SCUM. HERP DERP. Meanwhile, what was ConfidAnon even doing? Nobody KNOWS because he played lurk-o-tron-wish-o-wash the whole game hrmmm hrmmmmmmmmmm.

[AlmasterGM]

Yes, playing into Hoopla's hands would have been the correct play, but you completely ignored the time stamps. redtail896's response was immediate. You tried to discredit Hoopla's gambit by ignoring the KEY POINT of why the gambit worked and instead tried to say, "Well, smart scum would play right into it." This is the same thing that happened on Day 1 when Hoopla claimed PGO -- who tried to deny it?

So he couldn't have just thought quickly? Um, what?

You're grasping at straws soo much here. Even if we GRANT this stretch of an argument (redtail is dumb and would not have thought of the optimal play), saying I'M SCUM for SUGGESTING it is simply preposterous.

FFS, attribute your quotes!

No, no heavy spin. Just heavy borrowing from Hoopla. VRK, why would AlmasterGM "leave the possibility" that redtail896 faked his response to Hoopla? Considering that redtail896's response was knee-jerk, and Hoopla's action could not be reasonably predicted, there was no reason to doubt redtail896 was town.

This is my definition of heavy spin - taking something where there is an extremely simple and logical explanation for why somebody would do something, saying that reason is wrong, and offering up some abstract, counter-intuitive, and deep alternative theory. You are doing precisely that.

AGM did not try to get redtail896 lynched because I was doing that for him. Kihihi. Look at this from my post 902:

NOT TRUE BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T IN THE GAME AT THE TIME, CONFIDANON WAS. AND HE WASN'T DOING ANYTHING.

NICE TRY WITH THE BLATANT LIES, THOUGH.

However, the rest of the town already ruined that by posting their suspicions. The point of doing what you did is to have the WHOLE TOWN shut up and move past MyLo. Instead, we had at least 2 townies (I'd argue 3, but you're claiming that I'm scum) post their thoughts. That kind of killed the whole point of not discussing in MyLo, didn't it? What's the point of shutting up then? I will also ask you, VRK, to think about what AGM just said here... and then go back to where AGM ASKED REDTAIL896 TO POST HIS THOUGHTS. Contradiction?

Um, no, it's not a contradiction because redtail was the obvkill and is thus a different case. The only other PRIME OFFENDER was YOU, which makes perfect sense because as SCUM you would WANT all the information.

Therefore, I am no longer responding to AlmasterGM's points. Twist my shit all you like, scumbag. You're good at it.

Go AtE gooo. You are the one twisting stuff. Everything I have said is straight up truth. No interpretations. Just what happened.

[AlmasterGM]

I'M PUTTING THIS IN A SEPARATE POST BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A SLAM DUNK:

Vel-Rahn Koon... go with your gut. Even if it means voting me.

Yeah VRK! Ignore the whole game. IGNORE LOGIC. Vote AGM for some random, unjustifiable reason! Do it! Please! It's my only way out...pretty please...?!?!

If Equniox was actually winning any arguments here he wouldn't be saying this. "Go with your gut" is a line only the loser utters.

SORRY SCUM, YOU TRIED.

[AlmasterGM]

THE PEOPLE REST.

[AlmasterGM]

P.S. The people WILL be seeking the death penalty, your honor.

[AlmasterGM]

What WIFOM trap is going on here?

[AlmasterGM]

Deadline is in about 8 hours...comeon VRK...

[AlmasterGM]

Server hiccup. It happened in a few threads.

[AlmasterGM]

Herp derp, slow mod is slowww.

But yeah, I was scum. I don't think you guys messed up, really - ConfidAnon's play was pretty bad, so even though Equinox played well, there wasn't much he could do to overcome that.

[AlmasterGM]

Also, like half the "strategic" stuff I did was actually just me being stupid and getting lucky. For example, the no-kill was because I thought, "lulz if I no-kill then there's moar ppl and it's harder to find meee heheehe." I TOTALLY forgot the town could just no-lynch.

[AlmasterGM]

I seriously contemplated nightkilling G&H. Yes, my push to lynch him was a bus, but the rage was 100% real. I wanted him dead. I was REALLY scared he would blow my cover (either deliberately or on accident). I also thought gonnano might be a cop.

Fortunately, the whole lover thing solved that.