Mini 983: It Got Worse (GAME OVER)

[SaintKerrigan]

Ok, will be rereading this game (as well as others) today. Don't expect me to give my thoughts immediate presto, but I'll try hard to have something before the RL day ends.

[SaintKerrigan]

"Sorry we're late to the party! We would've been here faster if there weren't so many of your

goons

in the way..."

Also, it's sad when I make a post saying I'll need time to get my thoughts, and eight hours later when I do have something no one's posted...

Vote: SaintKerrigan

, let's lynch him before he's back from V/LA. That'll put the fear of God into him.

Im pretty sure the mod is not a player in this game

Why don't you think that?

You're lying to me right now dammit.

Elaborate?

Mod/Nikanor/LlamaFluff interactions made me ROFL so damn hard. This is gonna be a hell of a game!

Response:

x^2 = -1

I don't like SP's reasoning for the Nik vote, but I like RedCoytote's piggybacking on it even less.

Vote: 10)

Invalid. This vote is silly.

Gut doesn't like SP and RedCoyote at the moment, and RayFrost needs to get his shtuff done. Everyone else, I don't see something worth commenting on. Moar posting would be good.

[SaintKerrigan]

I just dont think mod is going to be a player in the game, the "12 votes in play" backs that up. I think there may be a decent chance that our player 12 is a voice of the mod player, but will get to that later if we have to.

Who says the mod wouldn't have a vote? This is a bastard game, after all.

[SaintKerrigan]

Meh, personally I'd think the mod would himself be the ??? player, but since it's pure speculation at this point, I guess it doesn't matter. I was mostly trying to see if you had hard intel on whether or not the mod was in the game, and it definitely seems like you don't.

[SaintKerrigan]

SK: It was a joke. Who is 10) and why are you voting for him?

Read the first post.

@ Spyrex: What about an RC wagon?

[SaintKerrigan]

Since the mod didn't appreciate my clever attempt at voting...

Vote: RedCoyote.

Also,

FoS: Sykedoc.

Because I can.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ RedCoyote: Ahem. I said I disliked SP's reasoning, and I liked even less how you piggybacked on that bad reasoning with your vote. That's a fair bit more than "assuming it was icky".

[SaintKerrigan]

Are you implying that I am belittling your suspicions? I'm not intending to do so, to devalue them with a lesser adjective so to speak (if this isn't what your implying, then please clarify). You may substitute icky for the word "bad", "malicious", or whatever else. My point was that, rather than attempt to press me on my opinion, you assumed that I was scummy for agreeing with SP. Isn't that right?

First: you never actually addressed the reason for my vote, opting to downgrade it as "assuming your vote is icky," which makes it sound like my vote had little thought to it.

Second: you then imply that "agreeing with SP" is a suboptimal reason for voting you. Considering that piggybacking on SP's reasoning, which I disagreed with to begin with, was your only reason for voting Nikanor, why shouldn't I be wary of scum trying to attach themselves to an easy case?

Third: since you say I'm voting you for "agreeing with SP", why not defend your position?

[SaintKerrigan]

I disagree with SP.

Fixed for clarity.

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, why aren't more people voting SP?

Because SP feels more anti-town to me than scummy atm.

[SaintKerrigan]

So why is RedCoyote scummier than SP?

Because he piggybacked on SP's bad reasoning and added nothing original, which looks like lazy scum hiding behind someone else's case.

[SaintKerrigan]

Getting shocked by sticking a fork in a light socket is far more accurate and likely than my results are.

Fixed for accuracy.

[SaintKerrigan]

"So where the hell is this place with the rather...longish name, anyway?"

"You mean Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg? It's up in Massachusetts."

"Ah...wait, you can

pronounce

all that?"

"Linguistics is one of my specialties."

@ RC: Nothing more to say on what I've said about you?

I'm still mulling over this recent Amished development. When I know what to make of it, I'll let you know.

The SPS dayprotect thing seems more like a reaction test than a real dayprotect, but who knows?

[SaintKerrigan]

Response: Fate

Nooooooo I cannot escape Fate!

Response: Ellibereth

Amished feels town to me. This is why.

My gut's telling me that at least one of the Amished attackers is scum. Magnus seems to be sitting on the side and pushing every once in a while for the sake of pushing. UK seems more honest with her responses (aka they jive more with me as town).

FoS: Magnus Orion

Leaving my vote on RC because he's gone suspiciously quiet as of late (plus my previous grievances still stand).

[SaintKerrigan]

Forgot Spyrex was voting Amished too. My mind doesn't know what the hell to make of Spyrex, but he seems to have been fairly quiet, although he did start the Amished wagon. Going neutral for now.

Also, to everyone jumping on Amished for what he did, why aren't you giving RedCoyote the same treatment?

[SaintKerrigan]

"This is Why" was supposed to be a link to my ISO of that game. Oh well. Go to that game and ISO my play. Particularly the later parts.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ UK: Voted SPS for the dayprotect stuff. Pretty similar to what Amished got accused of doing.

@ Magnus: That excuses him how? And that makes you call Amished scum and RC not why?

SP is still being anti-town. Since when does defending another player automatically make someone scum?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Magnus: Amished's response seems similar to mine in that game, which is extreme frustration with a bullshit case (I went too far with it though )

@ Spyrex: Why can't my defense of Amished be town? Also: You mention nothing of me (as far as I can recall or see) before SP asks you why my opinion on you is so bad, but when he does, you provide an answer. Did I miss something here?

@ SP: *flips the finger at your question*
Why is my handing of the defense of Amished scummy?

[SaintKerrigan]

UnFoS: Sykedoc
FoS: RedCoyote

Gettin' that bandwagon rollin'.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ SP: Why? And why was it strong enough to merit a vote?

@ Magnus: I don't see why Amished's responses make him scum. To me he looks like a townie that's frustrated with votes thrown his way over something he thought was perfectly innocuous (hence why I linked that game, because the same thing happened there).

[SaintKerrigan]

Broadcast: How many and what kind of effects can FoSes (majority count or otherwise) cause?

Question 1: Many types varied upon existing conditions within the game.
Question 2: Various effects from upsetting to gratifying.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Magnus: I'm not sure where to put Spyrex at the moment, so he's going into my neutral category. I just commented on Spyrex because I had been commenting about the other Amished voters, and forgot Spyrex was voting him as well.

[SaintKerrigan]

Alpha: Identify yourself by your actual name.

Alpha is my name. "Actual" is a relative term.

[SaintKerrigan]

Alpha: Identify yourself by your other name.

Αλφα

[SaintKerrigan]

Who get's to be epsilon?

Church, of course. >_>

Which reminds me, I have to catch up on that series soon...

[SaintKerrigan]

Alpha: Are you the moderator of this game?

Moderator (Noun): someone who presides over a forum or debate.

If I'm not mistaken I'm currently doing so, in which case the answer is "Yes."

Alternatively:

Moderator (Noun): someone who regulates and/or ensures normality through a medium.

Do I ensure normality throughout the medium on which the debate is being conducted?

No, I cause abnormality, in which case the answer is "No."

[SaintKerrigan]

@ SP: Ok, I goofed and missed your vote. Why does this make me scum?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ SP: Why?

[SaintKerrigan]

But your post was a trainwreck of scum filled bags of scummy scum.

Why? (for dummies!)

[SaintKerrigan]

Wow, Nik, Alpha hates you...

[SaintKerrigan]

@ SP: Missing information is not always a scumtell. Why does me not knowing what to make of Spy make me scummy? (I noted points of interest to me, but both of them are things that can be somewhat townish or somewhat scummy. Without more solid modifiers, I gave a neutral read.) Who said I thought Spy was town for "starting" the wagon?

Why do you keep changing the points against me every time I question them?

@ RC: Because I'm more suspicious of the fools that follow the wagon than the fool that started it. SP had bad reasoning, and you pretty much went "/agrees with everything, vote" with nothing original to contribute. Why can't this be scum being lazy and piggybacking off of someone else's argument?

Also, Amished hop is /fail.

You need to post enough, and give enough content in the posts, to make me think you aren't trying to activelurk. (And I'm not telling you exactly what I think is acceptable. That would be anti-town of me.)

How is your reasons for going after SPS different from Amished's?

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, I never said you were ready to lynch SPS in 234. I said why you and Amished were doing similar things and asked why you weren't getting called out on it.

Quit misreppin' me here, boy.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ UK: ??? How am I misrepping RC?

[SaintKerrigan]

I don't [keep changing the points against you].

(After I defend Amished)

Well, SK is scum with ED. That much is obvious.

SP is still being anti-town. Since when does defending another player automatically make someone scum?

It doesn't.
Your handling of such does though.

Why is my handing of the defense of Amished scummy?

Your handling of Spy is scummy.

@ SP: Why? And why was it strong enough to merit a vote?

I believe SP is refering to how you
1. judged spyreX only in relation to the amished wagon as neutral
2. judged spyreX as neutral for doing both of the things your other two suspects had to some degree done.

However, that's just my impression on the matter.
Even if that is not what SP is referring to, care to explain?

@ Magnus: I'm not sure where to put Spyrex at the moment, so he's going into my neutral category. I just commented on Spyrex because I had been commenting about the other Amished voters, and forgot Spyrex was voting him as well.

And this part:

although he did start the Amished wagon.

PROTIP: He didn't.

@ SP: Ok, I goofed and missed your vote. Why does this make me scum?

Individually, it doesn't.
But your post was a trainwreck of scum filled bags of scummy scum.

@ SP: Why?

Why what.

But your post was a trainwreck of scum filled bags of scummy scum.

Why? (for dummies!)

@ SP: Ok, I goofed and missed your vote. Why does this make me scum?

Ok, you goofed and missed my vote.
No big deal.

Forgot Spyrex was voting Amished too.

My mind doesn't know what the hell to make of Spyrex

, but he seems to have been fairly quiet,

although he did start the Amished wagon

.

Going neutral for now.

Also, to everyone jumping on Amished for what he did, why aren't you giving RedCoyote the same treatment?

This

: Attacks people for the wagon, yet doesn't even know who is on it.

This

: Knows what to make of everyone else on the wagon though, but not Spy.
This:

Leaving my vote on RC because he's gone suspiciously quiet as of late (plus my previous grievances still stand).

This

: Spy started the wagon that SK is attacking people for being on it.

This

: But all this concludes to Spy just being neutral.

This

: "Why X not Y".


And SK doesn't think Spy not starting the wagon is a big deal, despite that was listed in the reasons for SK's opinion on Spy.

@ SP: Missing information is not always a scumtell. Why does me not knowing what to make of Spy make me scummy? (I noted points of interest to me, but both of them are things that can be somewhat townish or somewhat scummy. Without more solid modifiers, I gave a neutral read.) Who said I thought Spy was town for "starting" the wagon?

Yes, call out the word 'town', not the reasoning behind such.
Way to refute THAT statement.

You didn't even address the other part of my explanation regarding Spy, instead going after the very last part. Btw, you didn't even answer the question: Where did I say Spyrex was town for "starting" the Amished wagon?

I think I am going to take the heat off ED for now, because SK is actually even more likely to be scum.
Unvote
Vote: SaintKerrigan

So why are any of the things I've said more likely to make me scum than Amished?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ SP: So why does me not recognizing the significance of that make me scum?

[SaintKerrigan]

(I noted points of interest to me, but both of them are things that can be somewhat townish or somewhat scummy. Without more solid modifiers, I gave a neutral read.)

[SaintKerrigan]

@ UK: I fail to see what you're perceiving as a difference between Amished's reaction to SPS and RC's reaction to SPS.

[SaintKerrigan]

UK: I guess I'll disagree with you then. Amished feels town to me right now.

I'm assuming by saying SP is being more coherent that you're agreeing, at least in part, with what he's saying about me. Mind elaborating on that?

[SaintKerrigan]

I have answered all of SP's questions that I'm aware, and I think the argument he's bringing up is crap in the first place. People are also not giving much attention to RedCoyote as I think he should be getting due to his lack of posting, again for reasons I cannot fathom. Pardon me for thinking there is a certain amount of WTF-ness flying around right now.

[SaintKerrigan]

No vote, though?

[SaintKerrigan]

Mmkay

[SaintKerrigan]

This makes it seem like spyreX is receiving special treatment from you. Is he? if so, why? If not, why not?

No. I just haven't been able to get a solid read one way or the other, so I'm keeping him neutral. The other two mentioned people did things in a way I considered much more scummy than what Spyrex did.

And: SpyreX didn't start the wagon. How does this affect your read of spyreX? Why?

It doesn't. It just removes one of my points of interest. It does nothing to alter the read overall.

[SaintKerrigan]

Why haven't you been able to get a solid read?

If I actually knew the answer to that, wouldn't I have told you by now?

The issue at hand here is "why doesn't it affect your read?" Once again, you fail to address this.

(I noted points of interest to me, but both of them are things that can be somewhat townish or somewhat scummy. Without more solid modifiers, I gave a neutral read.)

Note to Magnus: Please learn to read the thread before making accusations about me that aren't true. Thank you.

Seriously, first the rather suspicious behavior you employ on the Amished wagon (a target of opportunity), now assaulting me over points that don't actually exist.

Seems like an FoS wasn't enough.

Unvote: RedCoyote. Vote: Magnus_Orion.

[SaintKerrigan]

[SaintKerrigan]

Psst, SP. In case you forgot, you

started

the SK wagon...

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Magnus:

To even further clarify: I believe I already stated that I'm having a hell of a time reading Spyrex, which is a major reason why he's in my neutral category. If there was something I'd read that would've tilted the scales significantly one way or the other, I would not have made him a neutral. It's something that seems rather obvious to me, at least given the number of times I've had to explain it.

accusation? I was saying you were failing to address the issue at hand twice in that post.

"Accusation" might've been too strong a word, but nothing else came to mind at the time. I was also fairly ticked off that you keep saying I'm not answering that question, when I have

already

answered it (and even quoted the answer I gave).

What points don't exist?


Will you at least finish answering my questions so you don't come off as though you panicked and voted me because you couldn't?

I already answered both of the questions you brought up, which makes it seem like to me that this isn't genuine scumhunting, but going after a target of opportunity. The fact that I feel you were also doing this to Amished gives me more than a pause, and since a FoS didn't seem to convey my displeasure with your behavior, I decided to switch to a vote.

@ LlamaFluff: You stated that you agreed with the SPS wagon more than the Amished wagon, and say RC just happened to not be active at the right time, but then you voted for RC in the same post, without any reasoning I could see. You did later post some questions for RC, but why did you vote for him in that earlier post?

@ Spyrex: Why is Amished now town? Why am I now scum?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ MO: Going back and looking harder at things...no.

Unvote: Magnus_Orion

It seems I need to reread everything, as I'm currently not sure what the hell is going on. Expect revised reads later.

[SaintKerrigan]

So I read Nik in ISO, and he needs some votes. He has very little content production, and he advocated my wagon without reason (before being asked for it).

##Vote: Nikanor

Mulling over Spyrex: I feel something's wrong about Spyrex, but I can't find compelling evidence to back my suspicions. I presented my read as a neutral and gave counterbalancing points for it because I thought just saying I felt Spyrex was bad but I didn't know why would be worse. If that looks like trying to avoid suspicion, you're right. I maintain that this is often how I play, because for some reason I naturally tend to look suspicious. I also expect people to say this is bullshit and push for my lynch even harder. They'll likely also say that this is extreme WIFOM attempting to derail the wagon on me. I say either believe me or don't.

Your choice.

[SaintKerrigan]

Vote: Nikanor

Sorry mod using different voting method in another game.

[SaintKerrigan]

Why did you change your position from before?

Because I got sick of defending something that was already putting me under suspicion and wasn't what I truly felt anyway, so I decided I might as well admit what I really felt. The point was to try and avoid suspicion, and I fucked up royally.

Why are you afraid of looking suspicious?

Because I don't like getting lynched any more than the next guy (well, unless the next guy's a jester). I tend to try and avoid suspicion as a result.

[SaintKerrigan]

Around 14-15, I think. My wiki has the exact number.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ RC: Wait a minute. You keep saying my behavior is "uncharacteristic" and not like my town play. The only game I recall playing with you is the Fire and Ice game in which I was scum. What info source are you drawing from to say my behavior in this game doesn't match up with my town play and is uncharacteristic of me?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ RC: Protip: Don't try to outguess me. I will beat you every single time. >_>

So far the only thing I'm sure of in this game is that Socio is town. That level of anti-townness does not come from scum. Ever. Unless they're pukin' plebes, which Socio is not.

Nik's lurking is suspect and matches my scum meta on him. Plus his reasoning for saying he'd join my wagon looks like opportunism.

Amished still seems town.

Spyrex's jumping on wagons of oppportunity (Amished, me) are part of the reason why I'm getting scumvibes from him, I think. There is disturbingly little stuff I can glean from his posts.

More stuff to follow.

[SaintKerrigan]

Oh hey, look who just showed up with a vote on the popular bandwagon and is all concerned about the deadline after having lurked through a good part of this game. *rolls eyes*

[SaintKerrigan]

Socio, why didn't you claim this information earlier?

Also, is there anyone who wants to try and find out what majority FoS'ing does?

[SaintKerrigan]

Thanks, UK, but Socio is perfectly capable of speaking for himself.

[SaintKerrigan]

UNVOTE: Nikanor
VOTE: Sociopath

@ UK: Have fun guessing my intent, then. I guarantee you're wrong, though. I'm just psychic like that. >_>

[SaintKerrigan]

Yeah, I'm claiming Jester. Socio can be lynched today if you guys lynch me on Day 2.

Ok?

(Just in case someone gets their panties in a wad, I'm joking here.)

Mostly I'm saying that my intentions are so far removed from the norm that I doubt people will be able to comprehend them. >_>

Some of it is saying that calling me scum is erroneous, though.

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, I think I broke my insanity censor...

[SaintKerrigan]

Not going to be on Mafiascum much today for RL reasons. Just thought you ought to know.

(Posting this in all my games.)

Preview Edit: Oh, and RC, the only bad thing I can think of is game-ending jester, and I agree with Amished's reasoning above for why that likely isn't in the game. If he is a jester, might as well get him out of the way now. If he's telling the truth, more power to us.

[SaintKerrigan]

Yay StarCraft reference!

What starcraft reference?

Yay dead Serial Killer!

Yay free gifts!

Also, claim time: I'm Jesus Christ, town jester*. If I get lynched I self-resurrect three days later and get co-mod powers with my father, Sykedoc. Everyone who believes in me shall instantly win the game. That includes the mafia, third party roles, and the fourth party. So let's all

crucify

lynch me* and achieve a happily ever after!

*JK

[SaintKerrigan]

Also hai Ythan. Don't bury the thread alive, plz. Kthnxbye.

(Also what was the condition for you entering the game?)

[SaintKerrigan]

What StarCraft reference?

Guy Montag. Name given to the default Firebat hero unit. (Now that I think about it, it was probably ripped off somewhere...)

Protagonist from Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury... fool.

Spoiler: Oh, and Nik?

You're still scum.

Vote: Nikanor
FoS: Nikanor

Also, now that the crazy firebrand who was calling for my lynch and the guy that was actually trying to build a case on me (and was a serial killer) are dead, would anyone who is inclined to vote me please explain exactly why? Simply saying "D1 actions" isn't gonna cut it. Give me some meat, please.

[SaintKerrigan]

Protagonist from Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury... fool.

This is why I should've read the book instead of watched the movie. The characters haven't stuck with me...

SaintKerrigan gains a point for not reading.

"Gullible" n'est pas dans le dictionnaire.

Was this spoken by the moderator?

SaintKerrigan gains a point for not reading.

@ Nik: Don't use that excuse, please. I put a disclaimer that said I was joking. "Failing" to notice that does not earn you any town points.

[SaintKerrigan]

Oh hey, look. The scummy sloth bear is stammering stupendously.

Aaaaaaaaaaaa

nyway, why are you voting me, Nik? "D1 reasons" and "Because Sociopath said so" are not valid answers. Give me something compelling, please. Pretend you're convincing me to lynch myself. Do a good enough job, I just might do it...

[SaintKerrigan]

"Well, whaddya know? The goddamn Batman's here! So what are you doing outside of Gotham?"

"I'm the goddamn Batman."

"Really? You don't look like much to me."

"I'm the goddamn Batman. No one can beat me."

"Yeah. You know this gun can kick your ass, right?"

"I'm the goddamn Batman. Criminals fear my powers of awesome."

"And I've killed deities. Top that."

"...I'm the goddamn Batman"

"Yeah, thought so."

FoS: Sykedoc

SaintKerrigan gains a point for not reading.

SaintKerrigan was confirming that the mod himself was speaking instead of...I dunno...some player with an ability to add words to people's posts. (You didn't actually answer the question, btw.)

I answered the question just fine. It wasn't the answer you wanted to hear. Your question has been previously answered, so perhaps you should try rereading. The information is there, but it entirely depends on your ability to see the information.

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, now that the crazy firebrand who was calling for my lynch and the guy that was actually trying to build a case on me (and was a serial killer) are dead, would anyone who is inclined to vote me please explain exactly why? Simply saying "D1 actions" isn't gonna cut it. Give me some meat, please.

Now that the town-flip and SK are dead = you are town?

Cause that sure as hell looks like what that says there mos def.

I made no such statement. I do maintain that I am town, however.

Are you still inclined to lynch me today, Spyrex?

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, I really want to find out what FoSes can do. I'll even volunteer to be the guinea pig, if that's what people wish.

[SaintKerrigan]

SK, was your claim supposed to be a joke? Like, based on your signature or something?

(For those of you that are seemingly failing to notice the JK disclaimers I put in that post) Yes, of course I was joking.

[SaintKerrigan]

What's the case on Nikky again?

Lack of scumhunting and blatant bandwagoning.

I actually found a better scum candidate, though.

Unvote: Nikanor
Vote: Steam-Powered Shovel

Read his ISO and you should see what I mean. (Hint: It's a pretty small ISO.)

[SaintKerrigan]

Also hai Ythan.

(Also what was the condition for you entering the game?)

[SaintKerrigan]

I targeted Spyrex last night.

Why'd you ask?

Speaking of Spyrex, where'd he go?

[SaintKerrigan]

I still don't see why magnus wouldn't perform an action last night, but if he didn't/got roleblocked or something I couldn't make him go through that all.

I'm inclined to agree with Nikanor that it's possible that M_O was an Arsonist-type role. If so, let's hope he can't kill from the grave...

[SaintKerrigan]

I reaaaallly don't like SK's business with ohhh look the SK wanted me dead.

Say

whaaaaaaat

?

Also, anything interesting happen to you last night? (I targeted you, btw.)

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Nik: Not really. But SKs killing from the grave in general would be bad news. (Unless they hit bad guys.) Regardless it was mostly a joke. I doubt the game would be

that

bastardy.

...right?

@ Spyrex: I have no clue what you're referring to. Help me out here.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: Nvm, I'm stupid and sleep deprived.

Preview Edit: Yeah, like I said,

Nvm, I'm stupid and sleep deprived.

Why don't you like it?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Spyrex: Fair enough.

@ StrangerCoug: Does your "information" come from the pinata or not?

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP:

@ Spyrex: Also I apologize for thinking you were lurking earlier today. Somehow your one post completely slipped my mind.

[SaintKerrigan]

So why not explain why you wanted to know who I targeted, UK? I don't really appreciate being asked to claim a target and then not be told why I needed to reveal this information.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ StrangerCoug: Does your "information" come from the pinata or not?

I refuse to answer. Don't fish for my role.

Waiting for a vote count before switching off.

If it's pinata-related, how am I fishing for your role? In fact, why bother mentioning the pinata at all?

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: Actually, the more important question is: Do you have a pinata gift? This is the only question I really want an answer to.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: Actually, the more important question is: Do you have a pinata gift? This is the only question I really want an answer to.

And you're not getting one for that either.

Why not? Is it that important that you keep whether your incriminating info came from your role or the pinata gift a secret? What would it hurt to clarify which one it is?

[SaintKerrigan]

I don't have any known pinata bonus either. It is possible it's a hidden bonus though.

Perhaps.

The point I was trying to make, SC, is that I hadn't gotten a pinata gift (that I'm aware of) yet, and this seems to be true of other people as well. If you had admitted you had a pinata gift, that would've made you very suspicious. As it stands, since people outed that they didn't have pinata stuff before I forced you into an admission, my plan won't work anymore.

You still get a FoS for not being cooperative.

FoS: StrangerCoug

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP:

UnFoS
FoS: StrangerCoug

@ UK: He wasn't giving away his role type by admitting whether he had a pinata gift or not. He just claimed incriminating information, which does not necessarily mean investigative role.

[SaintKerrigan]

I was

SPECIFICALLY TOLD

that Amished targeted somebody.

By somebody do you actually mean magnus?

God damn it, how much about my information do you guys have to ask?

...Actually, I think this one I can safely answer: No. I was not told whom Amished targeted specifically. He admitted targeting whom I think he did, so while I think I'm in the right to keep an eye on him, I want to focus on SaintKerrigan.

I'm listening.

I also fail to see why this info was incriminating, but meh.

UnFoS: StrangerCoug
FoS: RedCoyote

You've literally done nothing today but make trivial comments today (well, your latest one

might

possibly be an exception, but that's stretching things a lot), and you've only made three posts. There's a lot going on, here, and surely if you can find time to make those three trivial remarks, you can comment on other issues as well. You don't even have a suspect you're pushing for today.

By the way, I'd vote you, but I want to keep it on SPS for a while. Keep up this behavior, though, and I'm sure my vote will swing in your direction.

[SaintKerrigan]

Well, unfortunately no one sees it fit to answer my questions. I mean, SC just did, but you didn't even give me a chance to respond to that (how am I not surprised?).

Hello? You asked all of, what, three questions prior to me calling you out. One of them was asking about whether my fakeclaim was actually a fakeclaim (and really, if you actually believed my fakeclaim was my real role, shame on you; I also answered your question), one of them was asking what the pinata did (a question SC was right in not answering), and the other was asking whether SC saw Amished target Magnus (he answered, as you said). That's all you've done. Over a multiple-day period, when other issues were being raised. Excuse me for thinking you aren't doing much of anything.

Also, I find it amusing that you start posting more right after I call you out for not doing so...

Additionally, I'm wondering why he outted himself as someone with a night action without provocation. Do you have an answer for that SK?

SK: Who did you target last night

Read the damn thread, plz. Seriously.

Also,

By [Amished targeting] somebody do you actually mean magnus?

Amish, you claim to have visited Nikanor, right?

Reconcile these posts, please.

@ Nik: This not the same game as Not-fia. Outguessing the mod when we have no idea how much or what bastardization is going on does not help the town, and distracts from scumhunting. That was a particularly WIFOMous statement.

[SaintKerrigan]

What is this?

Me having fun.

Scummy. That's not a reason. Don't just drop a link and leave it alone.

Why is it scummy?

This is still not good enough.

Ain't that a bitch?

You didn't follow up on this at all after the mod answered your questions.

I've been trying since then to get a FoS wagon going to test out FoSes. People haven't seemed inclined to do this yet.

Even if I didn't follow up on it, why is it noteworthy?

I don't have time to analyze the recent UK/Amished/Nika exchange right now. I'll do it later.

SPS is lurking again.

[SaintKerrigan]

I OBJECT TO MASSCLAIM!

Just kidding, I'm cool with it.

RC can go first.

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm Jack O'Neill (of Stargate SG-1 notoriety), and I...have no idea what I do.

I'm a Town Amnesiac. I have two abilities, but I don't know what either of them do. Every night I can PM the mod to say whether I want to use Ability #1 or Ability #2, and who I want to use it on. Last night I targeted Spyrex, and nothing seemed to happen.

SPS goes next.

(Oh, and those little area segments I sometimes included in my posts were sorta-kinda hints at my name, but were mostly just for lulz.)

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP:

I targeted Spyrex with #2. Forgot to include that part.

[SaintKerrigan]

Why would Jack be an amnesiac?

*shrug* Ask the mod.

[SaintKerrigan]

(Oh, and those little area segments I sometimes included in my posts were sorta-kinda hints at my name, but were mostly just for lulz.)

Explain.

I provided the flavor segments for my entertainment, but they also hinted at my name through attitude similarity and at least one direct reference ("I've killed deities"). I'm not getting why you're focusing in on this.

[SaintKerrigan]

(Oh, and those little area segments I sometimes included in my posts were sorta-kinda hints at my name, but were mostly just for lulz.)

Explain.

I provided the flavor segments for my entertainment, but they also hinted at my name through attitude similarity and at least one direct reference ("I've killed deities"). I'm not getting why you're focusing in on this.

Why so touchy about such a simple request? And seriously, attitude similarity? That's a hint?

You seem to be doing an awful lot of inquiry into something that isn't scumhunting-relevant, and I'm trying to figure out why. And who said I expected you to figure out my name? Like I said, I did the flavor stuff mostly for the lulz.

[SaintKerrigan]

I asked one incredibly simple question. You are responding poorly.

How?

[SaintKerrigan]

I like SK's claim. It seems believable.

Why?

[SaintKerrigan]

You are flailing. You're insisting that I'm pushing hard when you're the only one who could be overreacting. Why would you do that?

Because I don't get why you keep asking questions about my vignettes and I'm trying to find out why. How is that overreacting?

...wait, I'm not being trolled, am I?

[SaintKerrigan]

I asked one quick question just once actually. That's a misrep

"So where the hell is this place with the rather...longish name, anyway?"

"You mean Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg? It's up in Massachusetts."

"Ah...wait, you can pronounce all that?"

"Linguistics is one of my specialties."

What is this?

(Oh, and those little area segments I sometimes included in my posts were sorta-kinda hints at my name, but were mostly just for lulz.)

Explain.

Who's misreppin' who, motherfucker?

and then the trolling comment is your attempt to undercut my train of inquiry.

I'm sorry, my intentions with that statement weren't clear. Let me try that again.

[SaintKerrigan]

You could indulge me and explain why you've been inquiring about the flavor bits, y'know. That's pretty much what I've been asking for.

[SaintKerrigan]

You aren't answering my question.

[SaintKerrigan]

EBWOP: I'm slow, nvm.

[SaintKerrigan]

I asked because they had no explanation.

First time was fine. Second time was when I began to get suspicious.

Answers you don't like =/= poor answers.

[SaintKerrigan]

No, that's a poor answer that has still not been satisfactorily made satisfactory. You called it a hint, explicitly. You used that word. When pushed slightly on that point you wigged out.

I said it was

also

a hint. It had a function

aside

from being a hint. It was not

exclusively

a hint. The

primary

purpose for doing the vignettes was because I found them entertaining.

Speaking of which...

"See this gun? Still want to act like a bitch?"

"I'm the goddamn Batman."

*gunfire*

"Not anymore, you aren't."

[SaintKerrigan]

That you even insist that it was a hint at all goes completely unexplained. And ok, something about my avatar.

Nuh uh. I said attitude similarity and the phrase "I've killed deities." I put them in there for the hell of it, for fun. If you have a problem with fun in a game about organized executions, too bad.

Your avatar is just an excuse to throw Batman into the fray.

Also, I can only use one ability per night. Last night I used the second one. This means I haven't used the first one yet.

[SaintKerrigan]

That I am pressing you based on your claim to have used hints which were clearly not and you're talking about me having a problem with fun in a game, that I even have to respond this way to you, says a lot about why you should be lynched on top of being my biggest suspect at the moment. You can't answer simple questions and get so ridiculous under questioning.

That's a godawful reason to lynch someone. You ignoring my question for a page or so didn't help matters at all. What were the other reasons for wanting to lynch me again?

And you've misunderstood me. The ability you used last night, does it seem to have done anything? Yes or no will suffice for me if you don't want to be specific.

I did not notice any effect, and neither did Spyrex.

[SaintKerrigan]

Not godawful if you're bad to have in the game and it's supplemental.

So if that's supplemental, what's primary?

[SaintKerrigan]

No, right now we're discussing your still seemingly fallacious description of your vignettes as clues. You can be as dodgy as you like but I'm not following you to another topic.

I did leave clues in the vignettes. Were they strong ones? Not particularly. Like I've said quite a few times, I primarily did them for fun. I'm not seeing where you're having a problem.

Also, you're perfectly capable of following more than one line of conversation in a post. What are your primary reasons for suspecting me?

[SaintKerrigan]

I am capable of doing so but you're being dodgy. I don't like you being dodgy. You won't even let your response to my train of inquiry sit for half a post before you attempt to divert attention elsewhere.

Invalid response. Please reset operating parameters and try again.

Thank you.

[SaintKerrigan]

Oh right, I'm talking to SaintKerrigan. Should I wait for someone else to check in? Someone who has something to say with something in it?

This is not a valid reason for suspecting someone. Try again, please.

[SaintKerrigan]

I seriously hope you didn't consider all of those quotes points, because if you do you either need to relearn how to scumhunt or relearn how to express your suspicions.

Anyway, I did miss a couple of things, and I haven't gotten around to following up on the other ones. Getting on that...

[quote="Why did you not say a thing to or about either of these players?"[/quote]

Should I have? And which players was "either" referring to, since there were three players in the selection you mentioned?

I say asking for more general posting to no specified end is scummy.

Why?

Because I said so. You didn't explain anything, you just dropped a link. Then when asked for clarification you still didn't do it.

Nuh uh. I clarified it later after people said they didn't get it. If you make me, I'll dig it up, but you should be perfectly capable of locating it in my ISO.

Active lurking.

Lame.

Anything else I need to answer? Well, it's gonna wait until later, because I fucking need to get some sleep.

[SaintKerrigan]

Bah, failed tags...

Mod: Would you be so kind as to repair the mess in my previous post?

[SaintKerrigan]

What the fuck is going on in here?

I fell into the haystack...

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm skeptical of him more than his role. However his failure to connect the flavor to the role is suspect. My flavor is connected to my role.

Outguessing the mod. You should know better than that in a bastard game. Especially since your speculation is my flavor not matching up with my role. What the fuck does that actually have to do with anything?

Also, I answered your questions. If there is something that you really feel like I missed, ask me again and I'll try my best to provide a response proper, even if I think the questions/remarks are irrelevant/stupid/etc. Considering you haven't exactly followed up on the last set of questions I answered, though, I'm not sure this exercise will actually bring forth relevant results.

He's incredibly dodgy and blatantly ignores direct questions repeatedly reiterated to him

Your proof? (Yes, I'm inviting you to quote all instances you feel fall under the category described above. I would normally request post numbers, but we don't have them.)

Re: SPS's Claim: Another mystery-ish role? Hmm.

[SaintKerrigan]

I have not been dodging any of your questions.

Especially since your speculation is my flavor not matching up with my role. What the fuck does that actually have to do with anything?

You missed this part.

[SaintKerrigan]

Reading correctly would also help you gather that I find it suspect that there is zero connection between your name claim and your ability claim, while mine is fully explained. Because I said that.

How does this make me scum?

I called you dodgy.

By calling me dodging you imply I'm dodging something. If not questions, what, then?

And this is entirely distinct from the fact that yes you have.

Except you aren't proving it. *tsk tsk*

Well, I'd

love

to turn this into the Ythan-SK bitchslap show, but for the sake of the other players' sanity I'll continue this discourse tomorrow. When you aren't posting. It lowers my stress level several factors that way, and people are happier.

Good night!

[SaintKerrigan]

Reading correctly would also help you gather that I find it suspect that there is zero connection between your name claim and your ability claim, while mine is fully explained. Because I said that.

How does this make me scum?

Nothing you can say will ever make you scum. It makes you scummy. It makes you obvious. But it doesn't make you scum. So let's assume that you meant this in a way that makes more sense then what you actually said. It makes you scummy because you are unable to properly answer simple questions and are dodgy and rate whining over contributing as proper play.

Not giving the answers you want =/= inability to "properly" answer simple questions. Also, being a grammar hardass does not make you more intelligent. FYI.

As for my top two: SPS and Nikanor.

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, it's amusing that Ythan has no second suspect. What's he gonna do when his first suspect flips town?

[SaintKerrigan]

Can we

please

try out majority FoS and see what happens?

UnFoS: RedCoyote
FoS: SaintKerrigan

At least it's something to do...

Nik not posting is bad.
SPS lack of posting also looks bad because of [REDACTED - ONGOING GAME].

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm waiting for a massclaim to finish. Who are we waiting on?

Vote: SpyreX.

FoS: SaintKerrigan.

You, silly.

@ Everyone else: Please FoS me so we can see what happens. Seriously.

[SaintKerrigan]

Wait a minute.

Ythan, I'm your #1 suspect, your

only

suspect, and yet you aren't voting for me. Is that a mistake?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Nik: Just re-claim your role for the sake of posterity and pick someone to go next.

[SaintKerrigan]

Wait a minute.

Ythan, I'm your #1 suspect, your

only

suspect, and yet you aren't voting for me. Is that a mistake?

That's right. Got a problem?

Yep.

Unvote: Steam-Powered Shovel
Vote: Ythan

Ythan's scum, guys. Let's get this FoS stuff over with and lynch him.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Ythan: It's hardly OMGUS. The last two times I saw this scumtell I've caught scum with it. So now I'm going for three.

[SaintKerrigan]

Protip: Lynch Ythan. He is scum.

Preferably after massclaim, FoS testing, and teatime, though.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ RedCoyote: You still haven't FoSed me. Please do so in your next post.

Besides the fact that Ythan is scum, lynching him now is a good play for town, since a slot that needs to be lynched/killed twice to die is not a good thing to have in the later stages of the game unless it's 100% confirmed town. (Which it isn't.)

Something feels off about Spyrex's claim. Particularly the part where he says he jailed a person who he only mentioned

once

yesterday, and it was while chastising another player for voting him at that. So there's nothing that indicates why Spyrex jailed SPS. It also happens to be very convenient that SPS does not currently have an ability that could be used last night, and was the only player to have claimed as such before Spyrex's claim. (RC's passive randomizer may or may not be able to be affected by jailkeep, but I dunno about that.) Hrm.

@ SC: How did you come by the Tyler/Matrim info?

@ Amished: Who was your first character choice?

Also, deadline's in less than three days. We need to get a lynch on, and Ythan's my prime candidate. I

might

be persuaded on an SPS, Nikanor, or Spyrex lynch, but only to procure a lynch if no one else digs Ythan.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ SC: How did you come by the Tyler/Matrim info?

Did you read my claim? The mod told me this.

I did read your claim, and I did not see anything that indicated how/where you got that information. So I asked for clarification.

@ Ythan:

@ Amished: Ythan's scum because he's not voting me despite having me as his #1 suspect (hell, his

only

suspect). He hasn't provided a good reason for this. The other two times I've seen this, it's been from scum.

Spyrex is on the list for his claim and that funny feeling I have about him. I'm not going to push his lynch over the others today, though.

[SaintKerrigan]

SK is resorting to obvious OMGUS, if it can be called resorting when he never had anything better. Claims that I am scum because I'm not voting him are plainly idiotic.

That's what the last scum who did this said, too. So why aren't you voting me, then?

SK I'm going to give you an opportunity to completely rephrase your case so that it looks respectable. Please don't waste too much time.

Or what? You'll vote me? Y'know, like you should've been doing in the first place?

This FoS nonsense is a waste of time. I said it yesterday, I'll say it today, and I'll probably have to say it tomorrow. Y'all have been trying to make something of it since page, like, 10, and nothing came of it. It's a wild goose chase to make people look as though they're contributing, and don't think that I've forgotten that you've been the biggest proponent of wasting the town's time with it, SK.

Wow. Really? All it takes is a simple FoS: SaintKerrigan. Everyone except you has done it now. This is hardly wasting your time, or anyone else's. This has seriously got to be one of the lamest things I have heard in a long time.

I can't believe I forgot to include you on my list of lynchables.

[SaintKerrigan]

Unofficial Vote Count:
Nikanor (3): UncertainKitten, StrangerCoug, LlamaFluff
SaintKerrigan (1): Nikanor*
Steam-Powered Shovel (1): SpyreX
RedCoyote (1): Amished
SpyreX (1): RedCoyote
Ythan (1): SaintKerrigan

*I didn't count Nik's SpyreX vote because he didn't unvote.

Unofficial FoS Count:
SaintKerrigan (9): Steam-Powered Shovel, SaintKerrigan, Nikanor, UncertainKitten, StrangerCoug, LlamaFluff, Amished, Ythan, SpyreX

Seriously, guys. Almost one day to deadline. We need to have a hangin'.

Unvote: Ythan
Vote: Nikanor

(L-2)

I don't like letting known scum go for a day, but no one else is digging Ythan and we need a lynch. I'll deal with Ythan tomorrow.

[SaintKerrigan]

Wait a minute.

SPS only has 21 posts this entire game. Many of them have little to no content. Having recently finished a game where he was lurkerscum, this is really setting my alarms off.

Is it too late to get an SPS lynch going?

[SaintKerrigan]

For the record, I have not received a PM from the mod telling me how I'm weakened.

Hm, looks like you just got "weakened" by it. Still defend your strategy of FoS until the town wins the game? It's nonsense, and it's the perfect tool for players to make like their doing something important in the game. It would be nice, as scum, to throw out a bunch of useless (or harmful, as it appears) FoSs and chastise others for not following their lead.

Dear. God. I

never

said anything akin to "FoS people until town wins the game." I just wanted to test out FoSing and see what (if any) effects it might have. I do not like this misrepresentation at all.

At all.

I also dislike your terrible defense of Nikanor.

SPS actually makes a very good point about SpyreX. Spyrex's defense of it is terrible. Seriously, a breadcrumb? That can also be read as a scumslip? That you didn't mention earlier when claiming?

Unvote: Nikanor. Vote: Spyrex.

Time to change the lynch, guys.

I'm just saying that on a raw numbers level, Nikanor is nowhere near the biggest offender.

Sheer post number don't mean shit unless there's content in them.

Everyone please look at the dodgy pathetic bullshit that comprises the entirety of SK's contribution to this thread and then let's stretch his neck please.

Speak for yourself. You've only pushed

one

suspect so far today: me. You've been calling virulently for my lynch. And yet you aren't voting for me. Why in hell would a townie, having only one person he wants lynched, not vote for the person he wants lynched? Other than advocating my lynch, you have done almost

nothing

of merit today. Again, why the hell aren't you voting me?

Seriously, people, Ythan needs to die. Just look at him. Honestly.

Right now, I want either Ythan or Spyrex dead by the end of today. Ythan, preferably, but unless people finally start getting what I'm talking about Spyrex has the best shot of getting lynched, so my vote's on him for now. I'm definitely willing to get a Ythan wagon going if we can get enough people on it, though.

@ Amished: Deadline is today. Vote for

Pedro

Ythan/Spyrex.

(Correct if wrong)

Is this a typo?

[SaintKerrigan]

I thought it would be clear enough that that was rhetorical and hyperbolic (it would be absurd if a mafia game could be won based on the number of FoSs given), but my point of course is the "test" is no good.

It's a complete facade. Your intentions are not wholesome or curious; they're likely manipulative.

Explain to me how you came up with this crazy, wildly speculative viewpoint. (This is the mild version of what I'd originally typed up.)

SK, didn't you make a post a little while ago saying SPS would make a good lynch? It seems like you want to lynch everyone, lol.

Yes. Spyrex was on my lynch list as well, if you'll recall. Then SPS dug up that point against Spyrex, and I considered it damning enough to bump Spyrex to #2 on my list (Ythan's #1, and not moving from it).

The following are the reasons why Ythan, if he's still alive tomorrow, is scum and needs to die:

- He's been pushing hard for my lynch almost all day today, and despite this he refrains from voting me, for no given reason. The only two times I've seen this behavior, it's been from scum. Even without the statistics, you don't do this as town unless you have a good reason.
- When I press him to explain why he's not voting for me, he dodges the question entirely - multiple times - and opts to insult my intelligence instead. This is not town behavior.
- Other than yelling at other people to lynch me, he has done practically

nothing

of merit today. I'm serious, read his ISO. Most of his "content" comes from his case against me. When you consider that he's not voting me despite singularly tunneling on me and calling for my lynch, he's not actually been doing much of anything today. A classic case of active lurking if I ever saw one.

Seriously, people. Ythan is scum. I'm 100% convinced of this.

Spyrex is his buddy. If there's a third scum, it's RedCoyote.

[SaintKerrigan]

The following are the reasons why Ythan is scum and, if he's still alive tomorrow, needs to die:

Fixed for clarity.

[SaintKerrigan]

Mod & Players: Limited Access for the forseeable future due to actually finding work in this lackluster economy.

I targeted Ythan with #1 last night, obviously, but since Spyrex claims to have frozen me I guess it didn't go through. (Either way I didn't hear anything from the mod.) I heard nothing about my N1 action on Spyrex either, so I'm presuming it wasn't a kill, investigation, or other obvious ability like that.

Amished's post regarding me being scum based on night actions is disturbing me. Also, a scum redirector could easily have redirected a town killer to another town-looking figure. I'll have to look more into this when I'm not speed posting before being late for work.

Vote: Ythan.

I don't plan on moving this vote anytime soon.

[SaintKerrigan]

I just hate it when I have four uberscummy people on my scumdar. That usually means I'm wrong on at least one of them.

And by the way, Ythan, I didn't say I was going to stop playing. I know you're scum and all and lying is what scum do, but please, would you mind not twisting my words into fabrications? Thanks!

Oh, you mean the other claimed killing roles?

There's the Pinata gifts, and I in fact am a mystery role (although Spyrex claims to have blocked me last night, which I don't doubt because I actually expected a scum Spyrex to do exactly that). Plenty of ways for a scum redirector to score a kill. It doesn't rule out two scum kills or, heck, another SK kill, but I was pointing out something that no one else seemed to be thinking about yet.

By the way, Amished, what was your night action last night?

Also, why do you believe Ythan is town enough to elect him so early? Additionally, why aren't you voting for me?

As much as Amished is tickling my scumdar at the moment, Ythan is sure-fire scum and Spyrex is just about as close. Both of them need to die, ASAP. I'd prefer that Ythan die first, but will gladly take a Spyrex lynch instead. While RC and Amished are both highly suspicious, I'm not sure enough on either of them yet to push their lynches over the two I mentioned.

I know I'm town so I'd love to be elected, but since that's not likely going to happen, I plan to elect LlamaFluff, since he, along with SPS and I, are the only people that I feel certain are town, and Llama isn't as lurky as SPS.

[SaintKerrigan]

elect Ythan

Also SK you're full of shit. Your entire case against me is that I didn't vote for you yesterday. Go die please you make games less fun.

And you never did bother to explain why you weren't voting me, did you? Even though I asked multiple times. Why's that?

Elect: LlamaFluff

Because Llama is town and Ythan is simply unacceptable.

[SaintKerrigan]

Your case is idiotic. I don't need to defend myself because neither your accusation nor your pretended surety actually have any basis in reality.

You can try to cover it up by throwing a lot of mud at my case, but the fact remains: you are still refusing to answer a perfectly valid question. How exactly is this town behavior, Ythan? Considering that I am, in fact, your only suspect (which is disturbing in and of itself), your lack of voting me and your refusal to explain why is completely irrational from a town point of view.

Once again: Why haven't you been voting me?

And by the way, I have two examples of scum not voting on "confirmed scum" suspects. My case is perfectly based in reality.

@ Everyone: Why is Ythan not scummy?

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm not trying to cover anything up. There is nothing to cover up. You have a stupid case that does not need to be refuted because there is nothing to refute. It is not even a case in the sense that it contains evidence implicating me of anything. And now you're asking other players why I'm not scummy. You are really bad at whatever faction you are playing and are floundering because pro-town play is contrary to your win condition and you don't know how to fake it.

You still aren't answering the question. On top of that, you resort to insults to belittle my case so you can justify not answering my question. Don't worry, though, I won't stop asking the question until you actually answer it. I'll make sure people don't ignore your behavior. That's why I asked them why they don't think you're scummy.

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm insulting you because you are being stupid.

Thanks for the kind words of love.

You still aren't answering the question.

[SaintKerrigan]

That's because I don't care about your pointless question other than that it has provided you an opportunity to scream out how obviously scum you are.

How exactly does asking you why you aren't voting for me make me obvious scum?

For the rest of you, let me put it in layman's terms why Ythan not voting for me is antitown in the scummy kind of way. When a townsperson thinks beyond all doubt that someone is scum, what do they typically do? They vote for them, that's what. When they don't do that, they have a really good, compelling reason not to. Under no circumstance except complete idiocy does a townsperson withhold a vote on someone they think is scum without good reason. Scum, however, have been known to do just that. Why they do it, who knows (they aren't keen on giving me that data), but they have done it before.

That's why this non-voting tell is so important. I've never seen town do what Ythan is doing, and I can't think of any hypothetical reason why Ythan-town is behaving in this manner, except if he is deliberately being a sycophantic jackass for the heck of it. Thus, Ythan is not town. That's why he needs to die, pronto.

[SaintKerrigan]

So, once I provide the logic for why Ythan not voting me is scummy, guess what he does? Comes out with the answer to the question he's spent the last few posts deliberately not answering. Uh huh.

Your great reason for not voting for me, despite outright calling me scum and calling virulently for my lynch, is because you hadn't gotten around to it? C'mon, really? You spent most of your posts calling me scum, and yet you couldn't take the little bit of time to include a vote for me in any of them? Yeah, I'm definitely not buying it.

Incidentally, if I'm being opportunistic, why am I going after a target that people don't seem inclined to lynch? Isn't that kinda the opposite of opportunistic?

Also:

That's because I don't care about your pointless question other than that it has provided you an opportunity to scream out how obviously scum you are.

You quite explicitly say that the question is providing me with an opportunity to scream how obviously scum I am. Unless you have a screwed-up variation on the English language, that's saying my question makes me obvious scum. Try again, please.

Preview Edit: @ RC: If you've read my explanation for why Ythan's action make him scum and still don't get it, I'm not sure what else I can say that hasn't already been said.

[SaintKerrigan]

For everyone else's convenience (since I think Spyrex is scumbuddies with Ythan so he's not really going to care about this):

Why Ythan is Scum

- He's has done almost no scumhunting at all in this game, period.
- He spends most of his posts calling me scum, yet refrains from voting for me in spite of this.

Spoiler: This is why this is scummy.

For the rest of you, let me put it in layman's terms why Ythan not voting for me is antitown in the scummy kind of way. When a townsperson thinks beyond all doubt that someone is scum, what do they typically do? They vote for them, that's what. When they don't do that, they have a really good, compelling reason not to. Under no circumstance except complete idiocy does a townsperson withhold a vote on someone they think is scum without good reason. Scum, however, have been known to do just that. Why they do it, who knows (they aren't keen on giving me that data), but they have done it before.

That's why this non-voting tell is so important. I've never seen town do what Ythan is doing, and I can't think of any hypothetical reason why Ythan-town is behaving in this manner, except if he is deliberately being a sycophantic jackass for the heck of it. Thus, Ythan is not town. That's why he needs to die, pronto.

- He spends multiple posts ignoring a simple question: Why aren't you voting me if you think I'm positively scum?
- Once he finally gives his reasons for why he isn't voting me, they are subpar and hardly believable.

Spoiler: His reasons for not voting me.

I started not voting you because I hadn't gotten around to it and a lynch didn't seem to be coming on. Now I'm not voting you because it's providing you an opportunity to flail uncontrollably and show how terribly opportunistic you are in your attempt to build some sort of case on me. And because trololololo lololo lolololl.

And there you have it.

*waits for the next choreographed Ythan insult*

[SaintKerrigan]

Oh you're including Spyre too now?

I've had Spyrex as my #2 scum since near the end of Day 2. Your point?

@ Everyone: Seriously, I want to know why you don't think my case on Ythan incriminates him. I've been wading through his insolent bullshit almost since he entered the game, found a critical scumslip, and presented a case that I think makes him sure-fire scum. Yet hardly anyone other than Ythan has even mentioned it, and it exasperates me. The least you guys can do before letting Ythan coast to a scum victory is explain why you have a problem with my case on him. For extra credit, you can also give your opinion on the scumslip/"breadcrumb" from Spyrex that is nearly as bad as Ythan's slip.

If I have to ask for this again, I will make it in large, bold letters. You've been warned.

[SaintKerrigan]

Incidentally, Ythan, you've made it onto my blacklist. I simply will not tolerate your abusive style of play in my games, and after this game I will no longer subject myself to your utter lack of civility. The hell you're putting me through just isn't worth it.

[SaintKerrigan]

Llama: Unless you can use that power before getting all 5 election votes you're going to have to kill me the old fashioned way.

Speaking of which, is it really too much for you to at least acknowledge you're not answering my question if you aren't going to answer it?

I'll stay in the game, if only to avoid subjecting my replacement into Ythan's hell. If you guys want to lynch me while ignoring my warnings, that's your prerogative. But I'll have the last laugh as Ythan, Spyrex, and whatever buddies they have run this town into the ground.

[SaintKerrigan]

Preview Edit: Seems like the mod already pointed out what I was going to say.

The mod's solution is accepted and acknowledged.

[SaintKerrigan]

By the way, Amished, what was your night action last night?

Additionally, why aren't you voting for me?

Still looking for answers to these questions.

[SaintKerrigan]

I'd like my night action to remain private for now (but will come later today).

Why's that, exactly? Isn't it a good thing for us to know who you redirected last night?

@ Llama: Could you detail more what makes you think I'm scummy?

And seriously, guys, would you

please

stop ignoring my case against Ythan and tell me why you don't like it? It's the least you can do before you kill me.

[SaintKerrigan]

Course, I wouldn't mind everybody full-claiming every day just because; but whatever.

Actually, I'm pretty sure everyone except you (and technically SPS/Ooba) has claimed their actions last night, actually. So unless you insist on waiting for Ooba to say whether he made his third guess at his role yet, you might as well claim now.

@ Ooba: Have you or SPS made your third guess at your role yet? If so, what were the results?

[SaintKerrigan]

Because this is the first time since a couple days ago or so that Amished has opted to come in and talk about stuff.

[SaintKerrigan]

I already asked him why he hadn't revealed his night action yet. To ask it again before he posted would be needless repetition. As far as massclaim stuff goes, this is the first time he's mentioned it.

[SaintKerrigan]

Hullo...

My role is that I might have some power, but I don't know what. I get three guesses and if I guess correctly, I can use my role. My first guess was Note Leaver, which is the role I would've made it (based on the Letter of Prester John. Sykedoc informed that was wrong and told me he had given my hint.

Based on said hint, I sent in my second guess of Dayvigilante/King several days ago.

I haven't heard anything from sykedoc since.

Doesn't the underlined sound a lot like what Llama just became? Could be a coincidence, but it

is

a bastard mod game, so I figured I'd point it out.

[SaintKerrigan]

I'm speculating on the nature of SPS/Ooba's role. I figured I might as well point the similarity between SPS's guess and Llama's new role, because why not?

[SaintKerrigan]

All right, Amished, there shouldn't be any reason for you to not claim your night action now. Everyone else who has claimed having an action has said what they did last night. It's your turn now.

@ RC: Not that this is going to matter since I'm going to die once Llama's elected, but can you elaborate a bit more on your concerns with me? Additionally, do you think that a player not voting for someone he considers sure-fire scum is scummy? Why or why not?

I agree with you that Spyrex is most likely scum.

[SaintKerrigan]

A tip. Don't do anything that obvscum asks you to do unless town seconds it.

[SaintKerrigan]

A question: who's your next pick for a lynch once I'm dead, Ythan? Wouldn't it be more productive of you to start building up a lynch wagon for them instead of continually raping a dead man?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Llama: One of my abilities could have been a kill, yes (redirected since none of the people I've targeted have died). It could also have been someone else's pinata gift. Staking my guilt based on incomplete role info speculation, in my opinion, is a mistake. Could you do me a favor and hold off on your kill until Amished announces who he redirected?

I just hope that it isn't a 3-4 scenario today, or we've likely already lost.

[SaintKerrigan]

Amished, where aaaaaaaaaaaaaare you?

(Nothing else that I need to comment on.)

[SaintKerrigan]

To answer your latter question first, I do think that's scummy, but not as much as you do. I very plainly think that you have too much personal drama going on with Ythan at the moment to look at him objectively.

While I despise the playstyle Ythan chooses to use, it has nothing to do with why I think he's scum. Thus far, when I've seen this tell, it's been 100% accurate. That alone is enough for me to vote on. Additionally, I've allowed opportunity for Ythan to offer a plausible town reason for what he's doing, but I don't buy the explanation he offered begrudgingly. I thus think, beyond all doubt, that Ythan is scum. My fault was in mishandling how I conveyed that information.

You burned your vote today far too early, forcing the town into a slightly less manageable position than necessary (but if you're town, this means the scum don't have to worry about your vote interfering with their agenda).

If I think Ythan is 100% scum, why shouldn't I vote for him right away?

Amish, having no doubt gather some information at night, is none to fond of you at the moment.

I'm actually surprised that I'm the only person so far who's suggested that Amishedscum could've redirected someone with a killing ability (whether it's one of my mystery abilities or someone's pinata gift). The probability is far from zero. I'm interested in seeing who he claims to have redirected. Plus, I know UK didn't delay a killing action from me N1 because if she had, Spyrex would be dead on N2. But I have no way to prove that, unfortunately.

We have an absolute disagreement on the value of FoSs and how they relate to contribution to the overall game.

All my testing was for was to find out what majority FoSing would do. I was doing considerably more than argue for people to FoS me, you know, which rather negates that aspect of your argument. To be honest, I think you're making this into something it actually isn't.

You switching from Nikanor to Spyrex at the last minute yesterday was abrupt and out of left field. It felt more like you wanted to get off the lynch wagon than you trying to create an alternative lynch.

I knew plurality would get Nikanor lynched if I couldn't get a Spyrex majority, and by that time Spyrex was not only scummier than Nikanor, but a more viable candidate than Ythan (my first choice). And how is it abrupt if it happens based on newly-acquired data?

Your subtle remark on magnus' flip that implied that those who attacked you D1 should necessarily become more scummy.

That was a cheap shot. I'll give you that one.

Your earlier wagon hopping, although I guess it could be more or less stretched into your flip from Nikanor to Spyrex.

So...if it boils down to my change from Nikanor to Spyrex, what exactly makes this different from the previous concern you brought up? In any event, see my earlier response regarding Nik/Spy.

Unreasonably holding me (and only me) to some personal activity standards.

Wasn't my finest piece of scumhunting, to be sure, but why is it scummy rather than just asininity?

Your pigeonholing me in the same boat as Amish, when that was far too presumptive to do given the lack of information.

Pardon me for saying so, but who are you to tell me that I don't have enough information to make a guess about your alignment? That's for me to decide. Additionally, consider this: at the end of D2 you were the sole third place for scumhood. Then you got competition from Amished, making me less sure on that front. Now, actually, you're becoming one of my tentative town reads (because you as scum is making less and less sense to me as time goes on).

You putting more of a value on your first argument against me than interrogating me and attempting to understand why it was I felt the way I did.

Just because you defend yourself doesn't guarantee that I'm going to believe you or change my mind. I

did

interrogate you when you were around.

I'm starting to think about the possibility of there being two scumteams in this game. If I feel like it I might actually try to make it more substantial than a motley of data and gut feelings.

[SaintKerrigan]

He really just keeps trying doesn't he.

Well I'm not rolling over and handing you the game on a silver platter.

[SaintKerrigan]

Also I lied. I do not get a daykill. Hoped to get a reaction from SK pointing either way, or scum delcaring a win if he was town.

If I were scum, I wouldn't fall for that. Just sayin'. Interesting powers you've got, there, btw.

All right, Amished, since Llama apparently can't kill me, you might as well vote for me. What's with the lurking all of a sudden, anyway?

Also, why assume there's only two scum, Ythan?

[SaintKerrigan]

Fine, I'll give you that one.

You're still scum, though. Don't forget that.

[SaintKerrigan]

Would it complicate things more if I said I was willing to compromise and do a Spyrex lynch today? (Unless there's a miracle surge for Ythan...)

[SaintKerrigan]

Spy blocked SPS on N1. And then "forgot" that SPS was playing, despite having jailed him.

Llama, I highly recommend reading SPS ISO 22 and 23, as well as Spyrex's responses. It should be illuminating on the case for Spyrex-scum.

Also, I'm also beginning to think that there may be two scumteams. I mentioned this earlier. If there was anything else about the N2 kills you wanted me to comment on, I missed it.

[SaintKerrigan]

So SK thinks there are two scum teams. Maybe he's not lying about suspecting me if he thinks I'm on the one he's not!

Hey remember this? Yeah this still happened.

So...beyond slandering me, what exactly was the point of those posts?

The way I have things paired up, Scumteam 1 pretty much has to be Ythan and Amished, while Scumteam 2 would be Spyrex (otherwise why would he elect someone who isn't his scumpartner) and Llama/RC. SPS/Ooba does not seem scummy to me at the moment.

I'm down for a Ythan, Spyrex, or Amished lynch today. Llama/RC I'm not positive about. Gut and Spyrex-scum's elect makes me lean Llama, but I'm not sold on the prospect. RC has also been looking more town once I get past the playstyle stinkbombs he tends to throw in my direction, but I might be wrong on that. In short: let's lynch Ythan, Spyrex, or Amished, and things'll be good.

[SaintKerrigan]

Also, there is still the possibility that one of my mystery abilities is a kill and Amished-scum redirected me to someone else.

[SaintKerrigan]

You missed StrangerCoug's, and Amished's claim is kinda everywhere.

[SaintKerrigan]

Because you can't be that sure of yourself, big guy.

Can, and will. I've already explained dozens of times why I have this confidence, so I'll not bother to recap it here.

Hypothetically, what if the lynch today ended up a contest between me and Amish? The scum may or may not heavily favor one of those lynches, and it is easier for them to get their way with you out of the picture.

Why are you assuming that I'm going to keep my vote on Ythan for the entirety of Day 3, bar none? It's not like I've said anything to that effect.

Because it seems to be more or less a pattern. A pattern of convenience I guess. Now your argument is that you have to vote who is 100% scum in your own opinion, but during D2 you were more practical with your vote.

Explain how it's a "pattern of convenience". My Spyrex vote at the end of D2 was clearly based on SPS's damning data, and the preceding Nikanor vote was from before I realized that plurality would lynch him. Also, Day 2 I didn't start with the knowledge that Ythan was 100% scum. Day 3 I did.

Thanks for the support, but it's a little late for you to be evaluating where you'd be comfortable voting, SK, given the Mod's twist.

What twist?

Ugh, this Spyrex super-buddying with Llama is driving me crazy.

[SaintKerrigan]

A huge "I told you so" when the game's over. It's pretty much starting to go to that point, since I'm having trouble finding another way to explain this to people.

[SaintKerrigan]

This isn't a hate thread, Ythan. The mod already established that.

[SaintKerrigan]

Are you capable of voting at all, Ythan? (Not an insult. This is a serious question.)

Llama, if you're starting to buy into the dual scumteam theory, who's #4?

It'd be really nice if Amished showed up and gave a nice excuse for his absence so I can believe he's not active lurking.

Mod: Is it too early to prod Amished? (Read: I know that it's technically too early but he's only posted twice this last week.)

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Amished: I can sympathize with your situation regarding time constraints.

With that said, let's see if I've got this right: You chose to redirect RC last night because you believed his *role* (why are you starring it if you believe it, btw), and you redirected it to SPS because you believed he was scummy. So...it rather seems like a waste of an action to me. First of all, RC does not have a claimed active ability, so you redirecting him is rather pointless in that regard. If you think he's lying, I'd think you'd considerably doubt his claim. Additionally, I went back and looked yesterday, and I haven't really seen anything from you that strongly indicates that you believe RC's role. Help me out here, Amished. This is starting to look like a fake claim.

[SaintKerrigan]

I think that's a brash, ham-fisted way to play the game. It effectively amounts to, "I'd rather lose than think of myself as wrong".

My confidence in my vote has nothing to do with Ythan's behavior towards me, or a hypothetical "I'd rather lose than think I'm wrong" mentality. It has to do with this: I have a 100% success rate when I've used this tell. So far, Ythan has said absolutely nothing that makes me think I'm wrong. Unless he, or anyone else, does so, I'm going to keep believing that Ythan is scum.

It's convenient that you don't have to choose between me and Spyrex, although, granted, you've attempt to speak to this issue. Still, the words ring somewhat hollow when you have your vote uselessly cast aside. As Llama mentioned, given how similar me, you, and Spyrex are in terms of powers, it's hard to believe that we're all town.

What do you mean that I haven't chosen between you and Spyrex? First, why couldn't I choose both of you? Second, I believe I've been very clear that Spyrex is a stronger scum candidate than you today. Third, I'm an Amnesiac. How is this role similar at all to yours or Spyrex's?

Although I don't have an active ability I don't necessarily think a redirector couldn't still take advantage of it (that's like a triple negative XD). What I mean is, I think Amish could still direct my power, regardless of whether I can or not. I mean, I'm just assuming this is the case, but I don't see why he wouldn't be able to.

Might not be a bad idea to ask if your randomosity can be redirected. Given it's nature, it doesn't seem like it to me, but hey, I dunno. Amished's action claim is giving me the same fuzzy feelings of "scum fakeclaim" that I got from Spyrex's claim that he jailed SPS.

Unvote: Ythan. Vote: Spyrex.

As much as Ythan needs to die, it's not looking like it'll happen today, so it's time for me to settle for the next best thing.

[SaintKerrigan]

First, you can only vote one person.

So in the absence of a vote, I use my voice. My voice has been clear in who I've chosen.

Third, well, it's more like a daisy chain thing, with me in the middle. You can control yours but don't know what happens, I can't control mine but I know what happens, and Spyrex can control his and knows what happens. You haven't used both of your powers yet though, right?

Yeah...I don't get it.

I've used both my powers already: #2 on Spyrex N1, #1 on Ythan N2. Although I'm suspecting that I got redirected on N2. Thus, at least one of my abilities may be a kill.

[SaintKerrigan]

Stuffs

So...if you thought SPS might do a scumkill, why not redirect him to himself? If RC is lying about the randomizer and is scum with a kill, why not redirect him to himself? If he's scum with an active/directable randomizer and he uses it instead of a kill, why not redirect him to himself? If RC can use both a kill and a randomizer simultaneously, why won't the mod let me use both of my abilities simultaneously? (Last question was rhetorical.)

Although, I just realized that I've been subconsciously clearing SPS/ooba because I thought Spyrex/ooba scum were mutually exclusive. Now that there's a possibility (in my mind) of two scumteams, I'll need to reevaluate my position. Geez, can't I trust

anyone

in this town?

I actually really buy a Spyre/SK scumteam. Spyre "jailing" SK last night in an attempt to clear him from the kill last night. Spyre being 3rd choice scum for SK; and now that there's a wagon building switching over even though he's called my claim "smelling of a scum fake claim".

Excuse me? Spyrex has been my #2 scumpick since the end of Day 2, and they're backed up by multiple explicit quotes. Also, in case you don't recall, I said this, early this morning:

Amished's action claim is giving me the same fuzzy feelings of "scum fakeclaim" that I got from Spyrex's claim that he jailed SPS.

This isn't the first time I've said I don't believe Spyrex's SPS claim. Plus, you rank lower on my scumlist than Spyrex (and I've posted this somewhere today). That means I think Spyrex is more likely to be scum than you. So pardon me if I compromise and move my vote from my #1 suspect to my #2 suspect, who also has another vote on him and is more likely to be lynched today. You really like painting many of the things I do as scummy, don't you?

Spyrex gets an A for effort for that latest post. Not moving my vote on him, though.

[SaintKerrigan]

It was a chance. What information do I get if RC does the kill as scum and SPS didn't do anything? How about if RC does have a killing ability; then I can save someone I likely view to be a townie all while condemning the shit out of RC? This seemed to be the best way to answer some question marks in a couple player slots that really didn't seem to have any clear answers that they could provide.

What information do you get if SPS did the kill as scum and RC didn't do anything? I'm not sure if I grok this next part correctly, but if you mean you were saving RC's kill target from death, having RC target himself would still accomplish that objective. If you meant something else, then I ask that you clarify, please.

Ahh, I got all the mudslinging you were doing towards me confused with me actually being scum. So if you think I'm faking my claim (and spyrex is as well); then how does Ythan being scum fit into all this? Unless you're seriously trying to push a 8-3-1 setup (which you really can't be since you've just said that there's a possibility of 2 scumteams (which means we essentially started with 3).

I do think you're probably scum. You just have a lower probability than Spyrex and Ythan. And I've already said earlier that in a two-scumteam scenario, Ythan-Amished and Spyrex-Llama/RC would be my picks. Two-scumteam is the theory I'm currently working with.

[SaintKerrigan]

GAH!!! CAN'T I HAVE AT LEAST ONE DECENT TOWN READ IN THIS GAME???

Will address stuff when I have more time.

[SaintKerrigan]

But then RC being redirect to SPS eliminates another question mark while also condemning RC to death via lynch after everyone claimed.

Only if RC is mafia and performs a kill. Ultimately, though, the issue I have with this claim is that out of all the people who are still alive, RC and SPS are the two best people for a fake redirection claim because of their lack of active, visible abilities. If neither RC or SPS use a kill, then potentially redirecting RC's randomness to SPS, who can't use his ability(s) yet, won't have a visible effect on SPS. Thus, the chance that your claim is disproved by someone else is very, very small. That's convenient for scum.

That's why I have problems with this claim. It's too convenient for scum purposes.

You keep mentioning a connection between your present and your stance on RC. Is this something you'd like to elaborate on?

I really want to know how you can suspect Llama at all though; please, enlighten me since he's your top partner for the person that you're voting.

Much of my Llama suspicion is directly attributable to Spyrex's buddying with him. Plus the fact that Spyrex elected Llama when he could've easily elected Ythan. It doesn't make sense if Ythan and Spyrex are on the same scumteam.

Hey Spyrex, why aren't you voting for RC?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Spyrex: What's the difference between RedCoyote and Ythan? Your charge about RC's treatment of me and my charge about Ythan's treatment of me seem similar.

In the absence of a Ythan lynch, I'd rather push Spyrex over RC. Spyrex has not been selling me on his RC push.

[SaintKerrigan]

In the absence of a Ythan lynch, I'd rather push Spyrex over RC. Spyrex has not been selling me on his RC push.

Dont completely ignore my push against him or anything.

I didn't buy your argument, either.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Spyrex: Um. How exactly does the slapfight between Ythan and I make RC less likely to be scumbuddies with him? I'm not getting something here.

@ Amished: A question: why aren't you going after Ooba? After all, he reputedly got jailed by Spyrex N1. What's to say he wasn't performing the kill on N1? That would also account for one kill N1 and two kills N2.

Ythan being antitown is meh. Moar Spyrex votes, please.

[SaintKerrigan]

Ythan\SpyreX?

Eh, the one problem I have with that is why did Spyrex elect Llama when it would've been easy to elect his buddy? Unless it's an Ythan, Spyrex, Llama team, but I like the two-scumteam possibility better at the moment.

Doesn't matter, either way. I'm having major trouble seeing Spyrex as town, and, well, you know what I think of Ythan.

On another note, I just noticed that I never included links to the two examples of nonvoting scum I'd seen. This is the first one. Link should be on the first relevant post, and you can follow the arguments from there. The second example is already linked within the first example, so I'll not bother to hunt it down for here. I doubt anyone's actually going to change their minds, but I figured I might as well put it up for reference.

Preview Edit: My N2 action was Ability #1 on Ythan, not you. My N1 action was Ability #2, not #1, on Spyrex.

I thought Nik did Llama and someone else but I'm too lazy to go check at the moment.

[SaintKerrigan]

Mod: If two players are tied for the highest number of votes, do you lynch both? Or is the one who reached highest number first lynched?

[SaintKerrigan]

So I was wrong about Ythan. Marks the first time I've seen a town player act the way he did, though.

At least I was right about Spyrex.

Spyrex's reveal flavor hints at multiple scumteams ("red" mafia). Ythan flipping town has thrown off my reads, so I need to reevaluate, but Llama would be at the top of the list for Spy partners right now due to Spyrex's buddying. Amished is also sitting in scumdar range. If it's two-scumteam, then one of Ooba and Elli is also scum, but I'm not positive which it is.

On pure speculation, I wouldn't put it past the mod to make Elli scum or SK, but there's no proof of that.

Not sure what the code means. These are the letters and numbers that make it up: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 0, b, c, e, f. It almost looks like a word or letter reference, but if that's true I've no clue what the system is representing.

[SaintKerrigan]

The key to the game lies in the numbers:
4f 6e 65 20 6c 69 76 69 6e 67 20 6f 6e 6c 6f 6f 6b 65 72 20 69 73 20 69 6e 61 63 74 69 76 65 6c 79 20 6f 62 73 65 72 76 69 6e 67

"One living onlooker is inactively observing"

That checks out. Now why is this the key to the game? (Mostly rhetorical question. Might be the mod screwing around with us again.)

@ Elli: Basic story of this game: Amished/SK suspicions early D1, Sociopath lynch because he claimed Pinata (with goodies). Arsonist(?)-SK killed N1, lots of Nikanor suspicion, Ythan and I began a slapfight (I thought he was confirmed scum, he said my case was bull), we massclaimed (I'll try to pull exact data from everyone if you ask, but for now I'll just say I'm Jack O'Neill, Amnesiac Townie with two mystery abilities, and I'm not certain what my abilities do, but I can't target myself with either of them), then Nik got lynched due to deadline. D3 Ythan/SK war dominated early half of the day, the latter half saw RC get lynched because of more "suspicious" behavior than Spyrex (the other lynch candidate). Llama also got elected governor that day, and he gets a couple of abilities (can't remember exactly what they were without looking up, but I think one was some kind of pardoning ability, and the other negated points accumulated by a player). Spyrex and Ythan got killed overnight, and now it's D4.

Yeah, I suck at summaries. Sue me.

Btw, just for curiosity's sake, anyone wish to claim either of last night's kills?

Also, I

intentionally

chose to not target anyone last night. I wanted to see if one of the kills would stop if I intentionally did nothing. There were two kills. Thus, to me at least, I'm not one of the killers.

Also, HAI ELLI!!! (/inserts into first post of the day)

Preview Edit: @ Amished: I'm surprised you aren't trying to push my lynch today. What's happening, dude?

[SaintKerrigan]

If you can see that it checks out, then you must have known how to decode it before.

Nope. When you posted your solution I Googled around until I found the cipher system that would be able to produce your given result. In the absence of another viable solution, I say it checks out.

Why does the setup make me scum, Llama?

[SaintKerrigan]

...unless Ythan was lied to, as massive bastard modding is in place, Eli is town.

My role PM does not explicitly say that their faction will be the same as mine but I assume so.

Unless Ythan later stated that the mod told him his replacement was town, I see no guarantee that Elli is the same alignment as Ythan. Also, I doubt that you're town at the moment.

On reflection, Amished's early elect vote for a townie makes him look better in my eyes.

[tangent] Actually, it could also theoretically be 2 Mafia, 1 SK, 2 Town today. The main reason I got behind the two-scumteam theory was to explain why Ythan and Spyrex could both be scum but working against each other. Now that Ythan isn't scum, it could just as easily be an SK kill as a mafia kill. Ooba's claimed ability set makes him a likely SK suspect. (Yes, I know the mod's Red Mafia reveal argues against this. But who's to say that isn't a red herring?) [/tangent]

[SaintKerrigan]

Amish vote for Ythan just means that he is not scum with you, since he would have gone for you if govenor was any type of a daykill, cop, vig etc power. Ythan was actually the safest place for scum to lay down a vote if they are not with you given how tunneled he was on you. Voting me would have been far riskier since I have been a little more scattered with my suspicions.

Amished was one of the earliest, if not

the

earliest, people to elect-vote after the mod said elect-votes were permanent. With that in mind, it seems less likely to me that Amished would elect someone who wasn't his partner right away.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Llama: You're assuming that at the point of election people had more than passing suspicion of the dual-scumteam theory. If you think there's only one scumteam, and you're in it, why not vote for one of your partners? You don't know if the power the elected official gets is one-shot or lasting, so giving lasting power to non-scum is a dangerous prospect.

[SaintKerrigan]

I could go for Ooba today. I can see him as scum or third party regardless of how many scumteams we have.

What put Ooba over me, Llama?

[SaintKerrigan]

- I dont believe his

Methinks something's missing, here...

- Plus revisit page 15 where SpyreX votes SK with gusto when someone questions SK on his partiality to SpyreX ..

Which proves...what, exactly?

@ Llama: Right now, I'm not entirely sold on either setup. On the one hand, Spy's flip and other things make me think a 2:2:1 is what we're dealing with. However, Ythan flipping town and second-guessing make me also consider the prospect of a 3:2. We need to resolve which we think it is, because for me at least, it changes who I want lynched today.

It seems less likely to me that Elli is mafia, but I'm not ruling him town while there's still a possibility for third party (plus I'm not seeing enough to make me think town about him).

@ Amished: What happened to your suspicion of me yesterday?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Llama (because I forgot to answer this earlier): Right now you're my top candidate for a Spyrex partner due to Spyrex's buddying with you on D3. Admittedly this was when I thought both Ythan and Spyrex were scum, but I still can't shake the feeling out of my head. Amished would take second place, mostly because I'm not seeing an Ooba/Spyrex or Elli/Spyrex pairing.

@ Amished: Spyrex actually mentioned Llama in a significant way on D3: he elected Llama.

[SaintKerrigan]

Basically I don't believe your "Oh. The code works out" explanation

Why not? Is it that hard to believe that I can take a cipher and a statement derived from the cipher and search online until I find the encryption system which will take the cipher and produce the statement? You're spreading the butter real thin, here.

You never did elaborate on how Spyrex's vote for me on Page 15 makes us buddies. For that matter, do you have anything else that supports that notion, considering I've been anti-Spyrex for a considerable portion of this game, to the point of pushing his lynch over RedCoyote's?

As for your question, that depends. If it's only one scumteam, Llama's my top pick, followed by Amished. If it's two scumteams, you're my top pick, followed by Amished. This would make Amished my top composite pick, but I'm not positive enough of things to feel like voting him.

@ Llama: I thought you didn't think Elli was likely scum. Why is Elli scum a deciding factor for putting Amished as #2.

[SaintKerrigan]

Blerp, I got a taser in the ass, courtesy of the mod.

I dunno about other players secretly involved in this game, but we have no real proof they exist, or how to kill them if they do.

Imma prolly go with Ooba, too. I still think dual scumteam is the most likely possibility, and I'm pretty sure Ooba's on the other one.

[SaintKerrigan]

???

What the hell, Ooba? How is self-voting helpful to you or your faction at all?

[SaintKerrigan]

And Spy's dead, unless you have a reason to think otherwise.

[SaintKerrigan]

If you're town, there's no reason for you to speed up your own lynch in this scenario. It's like giving the scum a free vote for a mislynch.

...not that I suddenly think you're town, but if you do flip as such, then this wasn't a good move.

I'm not going to bring down the hammer yet until we've had some comments, but I'm prepared to administer it.

[SaintKerrigan]

Because I didn't quickhammer you?

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Ooba: Really? I admonish you against self-voting on the chance that you're town because it's a ditzy move, I decline to hammer before get other people's thoughts, and you say I'm scummy for being "too careful"? C'mon. I don't believe you answered my request to elaborate on why I'm partners with Spyrex beyond Page 15, either. Care to do so now?

I'm failing to see why anyone is cleared by this double-trap that just occurred. Ooba could be playing goodscum and not revealing his alignment too early. Llama could be trying to find info to give him a better NK target tonight. Elli technically could've faked being voteless, but a simple vote count should show whether this is the case or not. Point being, in this game of poker, it's wise to not trust your opponents' faces.

(Waits for Ooba to find a reason to call me scummy based on what I just said.)

[SaintKerrigan]

Lol - I actually call this the "I-dont-like-townies-being-confirmed-tell" (cause it'll narrow down scum choices by process of elimination) ...

Then feel free to show me how any of the events that have recently transpired cleared anyone from suspicion, because it's not evident to me. Also, how experienced are you with your tell? How do you tell the difference between your tell and someone who isn't buying the same moonshine that everyone else is?

Well, I've been scum with Spy and that vote on you was really fishy .. I don't have to read another thirty-five pages ..

...seriously? This is why I'm scum? What makes Spyrex's vote for me different from any of the other people he's voted?

ooba cant be last member of a scumteam, or a SK at this point. That probably means that he is town at this point, although it makes the whole Eli thing even more confusing. Either way, we are not lynching ooba today, only way he is scum is if he is in a three man group, which I doubt exists.

You're gonna have to explain this to me. What, specifically, gives you the idea that Ooba is town, and why? As mentioned to Ooba, I'm not seeing it at all. Just because he goes "bah, go town!" after a lynch does not make him town.

Also, why is Amished Spy's partner, again?

[SaintKerrigan]

He selfvoted. If he was the last member of a scumteam that would mean that he loses. So he is not a member of a two man team with Spy, and he is not a SK. He probably is not a member of a three man including Spy, or a two man not including him either.

For the latter two, why? He clearly had a reason for his self-vote, and I don't buy his story that he "knew" he was the lynch, so he just wanted to speed it along. That is absolutely terrible town play, and I think a town-Ooba would know better than that. Thus, I think he has another reason for self-voting. Regardless of what that reason is, the self-vote does not look town-oriented in my eyes.

Also SK - Who is partner(s) with Spy?

Who is the other anti-town force(s)?

You still top my list for Spyrex partners, and my other scumteam is Ooba and Amished. This is still presuming two scumteams. Single scumteam would be you and Amished/Elli (Elli because it is technically possible for him to enter the game as scum). Ooba/Amished would be the SK at this point (with preference to Amished because not one of his redirects have been on targets that we could use to confirm his ability).

The idea that Amished and Ooba are partners seems even more tangible to me considering that Amished went AWOL for the entire duration where Ooba was potentially going to be lynched.

Vote: Amished

Let's get serious, here.

[SaintKerrigan]

Only from Friday to Sunday. Try again Amished.