Mini 1003 Mafia - Game Over

[Tasky]

make up a sample post (very approximative, you can also explain what would be in it), which could be written by chihuahua0 and which satisfies following conditions:
a. It would make you vote for him if he posted it.
b. If another post was even slightly less scummy than that post, you would not vote chihuahua0 for it.

What is the point of this exercise?

look... assume we don't lynch chihuahua0 for his noob pass, even if did nothing but drop scum-tells so far... I want to know how far his noob pass goes and what it can cover...
I'd like to hear from those who protect him if they will ever accept to lynch him and if there will ever be a moment where they don't use the noob pass... because if there is no such possibility, then that would mean that chihuahua get's unlynchable and that's not acceptable

[Equinox]

You could have just said that and not asked us to make a coaching sample post for scum to use...

I'm giving chihuahua0 the newbie pass only for as long as my tolerance permits. chihuahua0 is not unlynchable. At some point, either he's a huge liability or newbie scum. I'm giving him a huge leeway because some of the stuff he says feels more newbie to me than scummy -- which just points to null.

[Zang]

Votecount-

chihuahua0 - 2 - (youngminii, Quoi) (L-5)
Lemon - 3 - (Mindgamer, MagnaofIllusion, Untrod Tripod) (L-4)
AClockworkMelon - 3 - (Tasky, chihuahua0, nopointinactingup) (L-4)
Tasky - 1 - (AClockworkMelon) (L-6)

Not Voting: Chevre, Lemon, Equinox

7 to lynch

deadline is July 20 at 9:00 pm EDT

[MagnaofIllusion]

Sorry for the delay …

@Tasky

- Your exercise at 244 wouldn’t provide any positive scum-hunting effects. Theoretically exercises are not generally that effective.

@MagnaofIllusion: Looks like I'm the VI, again.

That you decided to respond to my questions with this self-pity filled junk makes me a bit angy.

ATTENTION CHI –

Answer the questions below in your next post or you’ve won my vote and my concerted effort to lynch you for the rest of the Day.

But why do you assert that only one might be scum? Do you think it impossible that RA / Lemon and ACM might be scum together?

On to other topics –

And now you have stated it yourself, it is effectively a policy lynch. Not everyone is you, and policy lynching doesn't help us.

If lynching someone for scummy play is a policy lynch then EVERY LYNCH IN THE GAME IS ONE.

No, but you even attacked

unsuspicious behaviour

. I can't indicate you are scum, but I will say that I don't completely trust you for your play. And no, I do not expect scum to blurt it out, but I don't expect scum to act inherently scummy.

Why not act pro-town to shake off suspicions?

Regarding your first sentence I am attacking people for behaviour I find suspicious. That you don’t think the same is of little consequence to me. Your judgement is not the Alpha and Omega of what is suspicious and what is not.

The inherent contradiction of the bolded parts makes me chuckle. Attacking unsuspicous behaviour is bad. But you are attacking me in saying I’m acting to Pro-Town. Isn't the definition of Pro-Town not suspcious?

Active lurking would make me appear overcautious, but last I checked I wasn't.

Active lurking is not the only way to play in an overcautious manner. Nice strawman. You are overcautious, as I stated in part because you refuse to utilize your vote this far into the Day. In general Town’s strongest weapon is voting. That you don’t feel the need to use yours indicates you are worried about committing to votes and leaving a trail that can be followed. Scummy.

2>

It's not logically flawed.

Chi would be found most scummy by my book. However, a notice of Chi's joining date and his proclivity towards unseriousness really drove my scum read on him towards null-read. I would like a more thorough read on him and if and he improves to decide if he really could be scum.

Emphasis added. If you don’t think the evidence is flawed why did you say it was in this previous post?

3> I personally think Lemon's defense for Chi is justified. I would do the same seeing as to how fast the Chi wagon seems to be moving despite

its flawed evidence.

The opposite of what? If there were more people like you around, Chi would've been quicklynched already and regardless of how he flips, we lose valuable Day 1 info. With all due respect to your play, just don't expect everyone to behave like you.

The opposite of a quick-lynch, of course. You are making up arguments to support that his wagon is “too fast” when fast is exclusively a function of the time it takes to amass votes. Chi never got more than what, 3 votes? And they certainly didn’t come in quick succession. So I don’t by for a second any argument that his wagon is going “too fast” or “can’t be on a scum”.

Your assertion that Chi would be quicklynched by “people like me” is completely incorrect. Can you find evidence where I have ever quicklynched anyone? If not stop making crap up.

I don’t expect everyone to play like me. What in the hell is the point of that sentence?

[Tasky]

You could have just said that and not asked us to make a coaching sample post for scum to use...

I'm giving chihuahua0 the newbie pass only for as long as my tolerance permits. chihuahua0 is not unlynchable. At some point, either he's a huge liability or newbie scum. I'm giving him a huge leeway because some of the stuff he says feels more newbie to me than scummy -- which just points to null.

well... it was not really addressed to you... in fact it was especially for Lemon (and nopointactingup)...
the thing with the sample post does two things at once:
1. I know what the consider the limit of the noob pass
2. I see how they consider chihuahua0's play, what they expect him to do or not do... that can be a good tell later
basically my point is that I don't accept this noob pass, since I see no way it will stop...
and if anything chihuahua does just gets covered by that pass, we are never going to get a read on him that's somehow "accepted"

@magma: it's absolutely not theoretic... I want to know how far chihuahua's noob pass goes...
I'd really like Lemon and nopointactingup to answer my request...

[AClockworkMelon]

Tasky, nobody is going to respond positively to your request because it's BS.

People feel that Chihuahua's current behavior is more indicative of noobishness than scum. You asking people to provide examples of what it would take for him to seem like scum is obnoxious. Next time you get a town read on someone we'll drill you for a sample post of what it would take from them to look like scum. It's a waste of time and frankly I think you're just being a distraction at this point.

[Tasky]

Tasky, nobody is going to respond positively to your request because it's BS.

People feel that Chihuahua's current behavior is more indicative of noobishness than scum. You asking people to provide examples of what it would take for him to seem like scum is obnoxious. Next time you get a town read on someone we'll drill you for a sample post of what it would take from them to look like scum. It's a waste of time and frankly I think you're just being a distraction at this point.

no... I want to know whether people would be ever willing to lynch chihuahua...
I asked for it, I'd like an answer... a townie would have no problem answering me even if they don't agree that it's useful since they have nothing to hide...
and another thing, I really don't like how you pretend to judge others like that...

PS: I'll be

V/LA 15.07 - 31.07

[Fuzzyman]

...no... I want to know whether people would be ever willing to lynch chihuahua...

This sounds pretty shady considering you aren't already voting for chi.

[Quoi]

^Me. Please don't tell anybody outside the game.

[Tasky]

...no... I want to know whether people would be ever willing to lynch chihuahua...

This sounds pretty shady considering you aren't already voting for chi.

I didn't say I want to lynch chihuahua0, I said that I want to know if the ones who use the noob pass are prefixed that chihuahua is not to be lynched since he is noob or if they allow limits to the noob card...

PS @fuzzyman: who are you replacing?

[Quoi]

Fuzzyman is me. If the people in this thread could be the only ones who ever find out about that, that'd be good.

What I'm saying is that townies shouldn't be so concerned about lynch viability quite yet.

[Equinox]

Vote: Tasky

Your constant insistence on this is horrible. You are asking us to make a post that would coach scum,

perhaps you

, on how to not draw suspicion. This is, at best, a very anti-town request. I am not going to comply, and I will ask others to do the same.

We know what the limit of our tolerance is. If chihuahua0 reaches that limit, you will know. Until then, since this is not a newbie game, I have no obligation to tell you how someone needs to play.

[nopointinactingup]

I have a little question (well, technically not a question) for everybody who is defending chihuahua0 for a reason which is even remotely connected to the fact that he is (or seems) a newbie... basically this is for Lemon and nopointactingup, but answers are welcome from everybody who would like to answer

make up a sample post (very approximative, you can also explain what would be in it), which could be written by chihuahua0 and which satisfies following conditions:
a. It would make you vote for him if he posted it.
b. If another post was even slightly less scummy than that post, you would not vote chihuahua0 for it.

I don't see the point of this so I will not do it. My position stands clearly in that I would lynch Chi if he's not being exponentially helpful soon. The reason why I am defending Chi right now is I think there are better place to find scums. Policy lynch is always my last resort.

2>

It's not logically flawed.

Chi would be found most scummy by my book. However, a notice of Chi's joining date and his proclivity towards unseriousness really drove my scum read on him towards null-read. I would like a more thorough read on him and if and he improves to decide if he really could be scum.

Emphasis added. If you don’t think the evidence is flawed why did you say it was in this previous post?

I said it is not

LOGICALLY

flawed. But it is somewhat flawed if you take a look at Chi's join date and meta.

Your assertion that Chi would be quicklynched by “people like me” is completely incorrect. Can you find evidence where I have ever quicklynched anyone? If not stop making crap up.

I don’t expect everyone to play like me. What in the hell is the point of that sentence?

My point is that if you are town, you are having a severe case of tunnelvisioning. Please consider everyone instead of just Chi. Remember the vengeful game we just played?

@Quoi, Chi: Please answer the questions directed at you!
@ACM: Where is your super talkative meta, I would like to see it.

Unvote, vote: Chihuahua

[AClockworkMelon]

@ACM: Where is your super talkative meta, I would like to see it.

You can go to my wiki and find a list of my games. I was already told in this thread not to link to active games.

[AClockworkMelon]

I was already comfortable in my vote on Tasky and this is only making me more comfortable.

no... I want to know whether people would be ever willing to lynch chihuahua...
I asked for it, I'd like an answer... a townie would have no problem answering me even if they don't agree that it's useful since they have nothing to hide...

I guess everyone in the game is scum, because you aren't going to get any positive responses.

I really don't like how you pretend to judge others like that...

Irony. Do you have any idea how pretentious you sound with these

requests

demands?

[Tasky]

Unvote, vote: Chihuahua

wow... this looks strange... in your whole post you give no reason for this, you talk about MoI, about other things, and then go on to vote chihuahua0. Opportunistic voting maybe?

I really don't like how you pretend to judge others like that...

Irony. Do you have any idea how pretentious you sound with these

requests

demands?

everybody scumhunts in his way... just because you don't like my way, that doesn't mean it can't be effective...

[AClockworkMelon]

everybody scumhunts in his way... just because you don't like my way, that doesn't mean it can't be effective...

I appreciate the fact that everyone has a style of their own, however, given the fact that I predict everyone, town and scum alike, will react similarly to your demand, I don't see it being effective.

[Equinox]

everybody scumhunts in his way... just because you don't like my way, that doesn't mean it can't be effective...

Your method of asking us to create a hypothetical post helps scum more than it helps town.

[Tasky]

but you see the problem with chihuahua0, do you?
he has done nothing but make scummy posts and we are supposed to let him go because he is a noob... I want to know where the limit to this madness is...

[Zang]

Lemon has requested replacement

and I'm still looking for replacements for mindgamer and youngminii

[Equinox]

but you see the problem with chihuahua0, do you?
he has done nothing but make scummy posts and we are supposed to let him go because he is a noob... I want to know where the limit to this madness is...

chihuahua0 has apparently reached the limit of your tolerance. My limit is none of your business, scum.

Drop it. Compliance with your request is anti-town, and with the exception of Lemon, everyone else who defended chihuahua0 has already put their foot down. Find some other way to push for a chihuahua0 lynch. It's clear your method is not productive.

[Tasky]

but you see the problem with chihuahua0, do you?
he has done nothing but make scummy posts and we are supposed to let him go because he is a noob... I want to know where the limit to this madness is...

chihuahua0 has apparently reached the limit of your tolerance.

My limit is none of your business, scum.

Drop it. Compliance with your request is anti-town,

and with the exception of Lemon, everyone else who defended chihuahua0 has already put their foot down

.

Find some other way to push for a chihuahua0 lynch

. It's clear your method is not productive.

@bolded: in fact my post was especially for lemon to answer...
@underlined: where exactly am I pushing a chihuahua0 lynch?

so you chihuahua0 didn't reach your limit, did he?

I'll drop my idea then, since you all didn't accept it that well... just a tip: maybe you should be a little more open for new ways to play this game... it seems like you all think there is just one right way to play...

[Equinox]

Your request was, initially, addressed to whomever was defending chihuahua0. After I confronted you, you narrowed it down to nopointinactingup and Lemon. Now that you've seen more antagonism, you claim that you made the request specifically for Lemon. None of this adds up. If it was your intention to directly address it to Lemon from the start, you should have said so; lack of specificity just means anyone can answer it.

Oh, were you not pushing for a chihuahua0 lynch? I thought the purpose of the request was to determine how far chihuahua0 needed to go before we could lynch him.

No, chihuahua0 has not yet reached my limit. Otherwise, my vote would be on him and not on you.

I'm open to new ways of playing this game. Your idea was just of more benefit to the mafia than to the town, and your insistence led me to believe your request was made to benefit you in particular. I do not appreciate your accusation that we are being close-minded. I do not see any evidence of that going on here; however, if you have a problem with the way we're playing this game, take it to Mafia Discussion.

[chihuahua0]

Mod: Sorry, but I request to be replaced. I can't handle three games at once.

[Tasky]

Your request was, initially, addressed to whomever was defending chihuahua0. After I confronted you, you narrowed it down to nopointinactingup and Lemon. Now that you've seen more antagonism, you claim that you made the request specifically for Lemon. None of this adds up. If it was your intention to directly address it to Lemon from the start, you should have said so; lack of specificity just means anyone can answer it.

basically this is for Lemon and nopointactingup, but answers are welcome from everybody who would like to answer