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Post Post #2500 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:09 pm

Post by Albatross »

I need to look through the flipped mafia's posts later, but this one I saw while skimming back a bit:
rajrhcpfreak wrote:AdumbroDeus, did i see that correctly? you cant be killed except for your passive ability. does that include lynches?
This quote makes me pretty sure Adumbro is town. (I had a town read on CMAR before my activity dropped off but though that was a long time ago.)
--
I would be very shocked if both ABR and Raj turned out to be a part of the mafia, as two mafia members with the power to recruit from outside the game would be very over powered. The only hang up I have with ABR is that I would expect the role of Loki to involve tricking a large number of people (telling a big lie or something like that) seeing as he is the Norse god of trickery and he would make perfect sense as a third party role. I don't know anything about Too Human though so it might be different in that specific flavor so any sort of Flavor analysis from me would be a waste of time. He's probably town.

(Also there is a nice symmetry to there being 1 town, 1 mafia, and 1 third party recruiter - ABR, Raj, and Tar respectively)
--
My town read on Chronopie is starting to fade now that he has stopped posting entirely as opposed to his active lurking earlier, though I myself am a good example that that doesn't really constitute a scum tell. I still think he's town. Which reminds me, I think we should worship the Egyptians tonight to test out his claimed revive ability.
--
I would be very surprised if Katy was scum independent of the player who is currently in Ort's player slot (Xite?) seeing as she claimed an innocent investigation on him immediately at the start of day 2 which I just don't see as a productive use of scum time (A scum could have easily justified not claiming at that time and would have been happy if the town would have continued wasting their time on that playerslot, so it only makes sense to do so in order to protect a scum buddy).
--
It is absolutely imperative that Snow_Bunny confirms that her kill is real by passing her item to another player. If it is real then the chances that she is scum are about Nil, while if she is bluffing scum this should out her. If she is uncomfortable with giving up control of the vig kill then she should publicly declare who she is giving it to and then ask them to immediately give it back after they confirm that it is real.
--
I like Dramonic as scum, though I am really struggling to articulate why. His role really screams scum to me from everything to the fact that it removes a player from posting in the game for a day (which I feel is bad no matter what their alignment is) to the fact that he uses them as a bulletproof shield. Also, his play during night two doesn't sit well with me at all.

vote:Dramonic


I wouldn't be surprised if he is the cult recruiter.
--
I am going to be honest, I don't actually read Darkstalker's posts, so I am going to have to lean on what other people are saying about him for now until I can get a better handle on this game. Ooba's case against him resonated with me a little though.
--
Ooba has been putting a lot of emphasis on the worship mechanic, which would be a minor scum tell if he did it to the exclusion of commenting on the game at large, but the he has been doing a lot of interrogating and has been very involved in the game from the very start. While people are always quick to point out the fact that "Effort being pro-town" is a fallacy, I still feel good about him at this time.
--
Iec has been a headache for me for pretty much this entire game, but I am starting to think that I was correct when I started to suspect a bit of my hate on him is due to confirmation bias with a liberal dose of playstyle clashing. That said, the last time I let him get away like that he flipped scum. Eh, hes back to neutral for now.
--
I had a strong town read on Parama day 1 for the same reasons that I always have a strong a strong town read on parama, but I can't find many examples of Parama independently scum hunting after day 1 and this worries me greatly. His interactions with Fate make me feel better though.
--
Xite makes me go ehhhhhh. I had reasoned earlier why I thought that that playerslot is likely town, but still... Ehhhhhh. Her voting record is absolutely terrible from my perspective (ABR, Nikanor, Fate, and then Raj after his lynch started to look inevitable.). Ortolan's rage quit was an alignment independent thing looking back and I really don't think much productive can be gleaned from that. Hopefully looking at interactions with the flipped scum will help a lot.
--
Some other town reads that I don't think need explaining: Fate, Nikanor, Faraday, M_O, Mina, Tar, DT

Lets see, that leaves:
TotallyNotMafia
VasudeVa
Darkstalker
Xite
Iec
Dramonic

as candidates for scum. The only ones I haven't already talked about are TNM and Vas. Both have claimed protective roles and both seem to have failed to utilize them well. :|

I'd look at them more in depth, but I am starting run out of energy for this. Later.

@M_O: Have you outlined in the thread anywhere why you are suspicious of Ooba? If not can I hear the reasoning?
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Post Post #2501 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:31 pm

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Yes well I can trick people with my secret vote.
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Post Post #2502 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:43 pm

Post by Albatross »

I feel bad for anyone trying to read 2500. That is a formatting nightmare. :(
Yes well I can trick people with my secret vote.
Eh, fair enough. It was a pretty minor point at best.
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Post Post #2503 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:00 pm

Post by Parama »

Albatross wrote: I had a strong town read on Parama day 1 for the same reasons that I always have a strong a strong town read on parama, but I can't find many examples of Parama independently scum hunting after day 1 and this worries me greatly. His interactions with Fate make me feel better though.
I've probably said this before, but with all the walls I don't have much of a clue of what's going on in this game and I have no desire to reread the thread to find out.
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Post Post #2504 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:01 pm

Post by Fate »

Chrono I'm not a reviver tonight due to the Global RB yesterday.

Now's the chance to vig me.
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Post Post #2505 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:03 pm

Post by Fate »

Should I bother looking in our QT Parama?
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Post Post #2506 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:05 pm

Post by Parama »

Probably not. There's not much to say in there even considering we've all massclaimed now.
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Post Post #2507 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:08 pm

Post by Fate »

But we could pull off gambits and say we agreed to fakeclaim together?
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Post Post #2508 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 4:09 pm

Post by Fate »

I mean how GREAT would it be if I was a super awesome role who fakeclaimed miller and had Parama in on it to back me?

It would be PRICELESS.
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Post Post #2509 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:03 pm

Post by Snow_Bunny »

Ah, another day already? Give me a break... Though, it was nice to see that we have taken care of so many scums. ^_^

I'm going to be selfish here and take a break for the weekend. I've been reading too much lately and I really need to rest.

Mod:VLA for the weekend.
Taking a long break from mafia games.

In honor of Erika Furudo, my first scum win (Umineko Mafia).
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Post Post #2510 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:51 pm

Post by totallynotmafia »

Ohhhhh.....I just assumed that the "grant item" ability linked to the focus item was a daybreak action, but after the interaction between MO and Parama I checked with the mod and it is indeed a rapid action, hence I can give my item to somebody to at least prove I am a doctor/jailkeeper.

So, who wants it? This aint Christmas though, you have to give it back!

Actually, I'm kind of surprised MO didn't ask for mine either...why was that MO?
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Post Post #2511 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:20 pm

Post by Xite91 »

ooba wrote:Preview: @Fate - Mina is prob. town because MO says she is part of his good wizards group. (along with Faraday)
May have been said already, but how do we know that "good" wizards are actually good? Just Sayin
Parama wrote:I want ABR dead too, how delightful!

Vote: ABR
Darn I really wanted to be the first to vote him today :( O well

Vote: ABR

Albert B. Rampage wrote:Hack the system is 1-shot. I thought it might increase by 1% the chance of mafia/cult killing me if they knew otherwise. So ya. 1-shot. I can't use it anymore.

We can assume the cult is at 2 members.

Papa Zito is obviously a dumbass until he says why I'm scum.
Huh? So you lied so that you wouldn't get nk'd?
I'm pretty sure you mean you lied so that you wouldn't get killed in general...
Eh, you just seem to be a really bad choice to keep alive IMO
Considering that you're lying and all either you're bad to keep around end game or you're scum/3rd party
I think that calls for a lynch
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Post Post #2512 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:50 pm

Post by Chronopie »

^I think he was lying so he
would
get NK'd. The idea/danger that he has unlimited use > limited use.

ntl, I think that ABR shouldn't be todays lynch.
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Post Post #2513 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:58 pm

Post by Xite91 »

Doing a reread on chrono as long as I don't pass out before I post retaliation to his recent postings.

But that's not how he portrayed it. Just sayin.
Also, why would it be important to kill him if his htc made it so that he could keep finding out who's in each group?
People DO get investigated after death remember? So it's simple to go, ok, he died, so take one off of this faction, and maybe add one for cult, just in case. Viola! new idea as to what's left
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Post Post #2514 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:02 pm

Post by Xite91 »

okay, so I read his ISO which wasn't very hard, only 3 pages of mostly 1 liners with a wallpost scattered hither and thither.
Saying that, I would argue that you really don't have much authority in this game chrono, so unless you give a much better reason as to why we shouldn't lynch ABR, i'm not buyin it
Also, i've been tyrin to get this guy lynched pretty much since I joined, why would I stop now?
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Post Post #2515 (ISO) » Fri Jul 09, 2010 11:21 pm

Post by ooba »

I was going to say Tar acts like he's been recruited but then realized he would have been a bad choice on N1\N2 (before we knew that the godfather was dead). Global roleblock clears D3\N3 so unless it was a rapid day action on D4, I do not think he's cult. But I think he's suffering from confirmation bias - you see what you want to see.

Regarding selective scumhunting from my side, maybe you should do one of those ISOs on me.



Fate, that list was for completeness.. I think I've already made my views clear that DS is the most prob. cult leader in that.



TNM, can you give me the item?



Xite, MO seems to think its good enough and it has been good for me since.

Nobody commented on my DS case.. :(
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Post Post #2516 (ISO) » Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:29 am

Post by Fate »

Everyone and their SISTER has posted saying "I don't read DS' post" which is probably the most hilarious fucking running theme SO FAR.

So I'm not surprised no one's given your case much thought. I believe the general consensus is: DS is scum? I rather take ooba's word that sift through PokerFace's ramblings to find out myself... Meh we'll vote him later.
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Post Post #2517 (ISO) » Sat Jul 10, 2010 5:51 am

Post by Mighty Orbots »

Troll and I both really like Ooba's theory. Bonus is that we have DarkStalker as a likely scum candidate so even if it's wrong it's still a win. (see raj for details)

UNVOTE: Chronopie
VOTE: DarkStalker

@DS - this is the part where you magically reappear in thread and post another wall.
ABR wrote:Papa Zito is obviously a dumbass until he says why I'm scum.
HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

How about the part where you keep changing your role to fit the circumstances?
Or the part where you just can't be bothered to participate really?


We should start building Snow_Bunny's list.
Chronopie
ABR
Dramonic

Is a good start.
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Post Post #2518 (ISO) » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:45 am

Post by totallynotmafia »

Just gave you my item ooba.

Been happy with a Darkstalker lynch for a while.
Unvote, Vote:Darkstalker


Still want to hear Zorblag's answer to my earlier question.
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Post Post #2519 (ISO) » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:14 am

Post by Mighty Orbots »

@totallynotmafia, I asked for Parama's item in particular because he had apparently attempted to send it to me yesterday (and was foiled by the universal block.) I wasn't yet ready to talk about what I'd like others with items to do though I'll get to that here for at least Snow_Bunny in just a bit.

I can confirm that someone (and it pretty much has to be Parama) sent me an item has a weak track as it's normal ability and what looks to me like a regular track for it's normal owner as it's empowered ability. The wording on the track/watch thing is a bit dense so I'm perfectly willing to believe that either Parama got it wrong, or I've got it wrong now (well, I'm more likely to believe the former but I'm pretty arrogant.) There's some chance that Parama was being coy on purpose and I've just ruined some clever plan but I'm willing to live with that if it's the case. In any case, it matches what Parama said well enough. I'm checking with the mod whether sending an item counts as the one ability I can use for a day (I think that it doesn't but I'd like to figure that out for sure) but I plan to send it back to him regardless of what I learn as it does more good in his hands than mine. This has overall slightly improved Parama's chances of being town in my opinion but they were already pretty high once he pre-emptively suggested sending his item to me (which I don't think scum would think to do.)

I'd like it if Snow_Bunny sent her item to someone we're pretty sure is town today. In fact, if I can give multiple items to people in the same day I'd like it best if she gave it to me and then I passed it on to someone I'm pretty sure is town. That would make it very hard for scum to try to stop that night kill with a roleblock or redirect and we could largely count on it being used as town would want it to. That of course relies on Snow_Bunny trusting both me and my judgment about who's town. I'll expect her to comment on the plan when she's back from V/LA but I'd love to hear what others think until then.

@Tarhalindur, while it is true that others brought up the idea of using the Census to test rajrhcpfreak's recruitment's alignment before DarkStalker did, he still went with the idea after I'd pointed out the flaws in it. Scum should very much have wanted to keep rajrhcpfreak around long enough to use that recruit even if it turned out that they ended up recruiting someone who was known almost instantly to be scum. Worst case scenario for scum is that it wastes the town's resources dealing with the recruit rather than putting a lynch or night kill to better use trying to find someone who isn't scum. Best case scenarios for scum are much better than that. Scum would at that point have either know that Albert B. Rampage was bluffing about his ability to use the census (most likely ) or that they could block him again (if they had the second night which is doubtful) so there wasn't any real danger to them of getting revealed by a Census. Everyone involved with pushing that idea looks bad (it was a poor idea regardless but the rajrhcpfreak flip makes it even more suspect) and I've got a stronger town read on Nikanor than I do DarkStalker for reasons that I plan to reveal to you (or DTMaster to be passed on to you) if Nikanor does put us in a quick topic together.

With DarkStalker the main source of my town read was that his abilities are really good for scum and that I think if he was scum he would have been tempted not to share them both. It's a more tenuous reason really.

As far as worship goes, if we don't worship Norse tonight I sort of think that Albert B. Rampage will likely be able to recruit. I'm not currently comfortable with that for what should be obvious reasons given that I don't trust him. If we plan on leaving Albert B. Rampage around then I'd rather worship Norse than anyone else tonight. I trust Iecerint much more than I trust him at this point.

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Post Post #2520 (ISO) » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:16 am

Post by Mighty Orbots »

Oh, and to clean up the last votes so that they'll be counted for sure:


UNVOTE: Chronopie
VOTE: DarkStalker

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Post Post #2521 (ISO) » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:22 am

Post by Parama »

The worship ability is worded really awkwardly, yes. It's a watch though, not a track.
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Post Post #2522 (ISO) » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:22 am

Post by Parama »

see:
something like "you learn who targeted the player you targeted"
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Post Post #2523 (ISO) » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:27 am

Post by Albatross »

I obviously support the item passing idea because I suggested it yesterday.

@M_O: What are your thoughts on Dramonic? Also:
I wrote:@M_O: Have you outlined in the thread anywhere why you are suspicious of Ooba? If not can I hear the reasoning?
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Post Post #2524 (ISO) » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:32 am

Post by Albatross »

I want to facepalm at the reasoning in 2511.

that town read is fading faster and faster.

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