Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Mighty Orbots]

OK, I've been talking with the mod a bit and it seems that worship votes involve abilities and are roleblocked today so we don't need to worry about what we're doing with them. Actually, I suppose I should have pieced that together from what SpyreX said about how his shift affected them (but like I said earlier, I wasn't paying that close attention to him on that particular issue as I wasn't planning on using the worship vote that day anyhow.)

@ooba, the too human bit we got from the mod about BlazezRb on his flip would have been his universe rather than the actual ability I think. That'd match the Stargate for SaintKerrigan and Sandman for SpyreX for example. Given what I can tell from the flavor of the game I could see Thor not having that passive ability (he was mostly cybernetic.) Your character in particular is the one that is too human in the game based on the description.

The mod also indicated in my PM exchange that the vote count probably wasn't right (I asked about 4 different lines that I saw that didn't make sense) and that he'd be fixing it when he got a chance.

@Iecerint, rajrhpcfreak probably did use the ability he's described on BlazezRb's corpse once it hit the graveyard (given that we know it was there for a time and it got removed.) I'm inclined to think that he's giving essentially true information about it as there's no good reason for him to be lying and he's giving the sort of information that I expect to get from my autopsy ability which should be the same thing except that apparently it happens at a different stage of the death cycle (mine works before they get to the graveyard.)

@Albert B. Rampage, it wasn't rajrhpcfreak that said he had a different win condition than the rest of us that was Xite91 (who says they don't have access to it yet if memory serves.) rajrhpcfreak is a good vote now because they're not doing anything that helps the town that I can see. Previously there was also some fishiness about the claim but that seems to add up now except that there's no reason I can think of for it to take town so long to get around to sharing the coroner stuff with the rest of us when there was clearly confusion about what BlazezRb's abilities and hammer were doing.

@rajrhcpfreak, why didn't you share that information about BlazezRb right away? Why make it look like you were going to be getting it later?

@DarkStalker, I said it before but I'll say it again here. Leaving rajrhcpfreak alive on the grounds that after a recruit Albert B. Rampage can use his census ability to tell what the alignment of the replacement has to be is a poor idea both because it assumes that the census ability will work (it didn't on Night 2) and that we can trust Albert B. Rampage (which I'm not at all inclined to do at this time.) Albert B. Rampage being busy is probaby the true (he hasn't been on much anywhere on the boards) but it doesn't make him any more likely to be town than scum. Further, the appeal to emotion (when I pushed him on other indicators of him not planning on being about after this game he gave us Post 2333) makes it feel like he's using it as an excuse for why he's playing what in my experience is his scum game.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[ooba]

@ooba, the too human bit we got from the mod about BlazezRb on his flip would have been his universe rather than the actual ability I think. That'd match the Stargate for SaintKerrigan and Sandman for SpyreX for example. Given what I can tell from the flavor of the game I could see Thor not having that passive ability (he was mostly cybernetic.) Your character in particular is the one that is too human in the game based on the description.

Percy was an "Intelligence Network". When he can be "Too human" and count for two votes, I do not see why Thor is an exception. (P.S you mean Iece's character).

[Mighty Orbots]

@ooba, I do mean Iecerint's role, yeah. But why couldn't both inHimshallibe and BlazezRb have had single worship votes and been voting for the Great Old Ones night one? Is there any reason other than the Too Human universe reveals that we're assuming both of them should have had double voting powers? Or did BlazezRb/Starbuck specifically say they weren't voting night one?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[ooba]

Ok - I'll revisit the worship to see if any other explanation can be possible.

Pom - I am sure you would have received a reply from the mod. Who did you worship vote on N2?

[Pomegranate]

I thought I had already PMed the mod, but checking my folders, it seems I never did. So I PMed him again.

[Mighty Orbots]

@ooba, yeah, at this point I'm thinking that we confused the universe flip of Too Human with Iecerint's ability because they have the same name. I guess I'm not sure what Albert B. Rampage has been saying. He has been confirming that he's Too Human and seems to indicate that he knows that you're talking about worship votes when he's saying that so it looks like he would probably have two (which I think is good as I don't know if it would work otherwise.) On the other hand he didn't mention the double worship vote thing with his claim.

@Iecerint, where does your Too Human ability come up in your role PM (make sure you don't get modkilled answering this?) Is it under passive abilities?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[ooba]

Worship N1:

Egyptians

Confirmed\Declared: ABR (2) + chronopie (1) + Fate (4) + Parama (1) + totallynotmafia (1) + CryMeARiver (1) + Iecerint (2)
Total (Declared): 12
Actual: 12

JCA

Confirmed\Declared: Snow_Bunny (1) + rajrhcpfreak (2)
Total (Declared): 3
Actual: 3

Norse

Confirmed\Declared: Faraday (2) + DTMaster (2)
Total (Declared): 4
Actual: 5

Old Ones

Confirmed\Declared: manho (3) + dramonic (2) + ooba (4) + Plum (1) + VasudeVa (4) + DarkStalker (1) + Nikanor (1) + Tarhalindur (2) + Mina (2) + Albatross (1)
Total (Declared): 21
Actual: 24

Did not vote

Confirmed\Declared: Katy (0) + Xmite81 (0) + Mighty Orbots (2)

Unaccounted for

Votes: 3 for Old Ones + 1 for Norse
Players:
BlazeRb (?)
SaintKerrigan (1)
SpyreX (1)
InhimshallIbe (replaces Percy) (?)

Reasoning to fill the blanks

- SpyreX voted Old Ones - manho "focused" on Spyrex, worshiped Old Ones and became a Double voter - hence SpyreX voted Old Ones
- We get two cases after this:
Case i: All Norse are "Too Human"
- If both Percy and Blaze counted for two votes, then only SK could have voted Norse
- That leaves one of Percy\Blaze voting Old Ones and the other not voting. With both of them not being active, it is not too far fetched.

Case ii: All Norse need not be "Too Human"
- In this case, the most probable voting would be to attribute one vote to each of Blaze and Percy. One of the two voted Norse and the other the Old Ones (we can assume Percy went the Old ones since he had apparently voiced his intention in the Norse QT to vote the Old ones)

Obviously case ii seems more possible than case i since SK worshiping Old Ones makes more sense than SK worshiping Norse. But lets just check with respect to N2 worship.

N2 Worship:

Egyptians

Confirmed\Declared: DTMaster (2) + Faraday (2) + chronopie (1) + Fate (4)
Total (Declared): 9
Actual: 9

JCA

Confirmed\Declared: ABR (2) + dramonic (2) + ooba (4) + Mighty Orbots (2) + Parama (1) + totallynotmafia (1) + VasudeVa (4) + DarkStalker (1) + Snow_Bunny (1) + rajrhcpfreak (2) + Iecerint (2)
Total (Declared): 22
Actual: 27

Old Ones

Confirmed\Declared: Nikanor (1) + CryMeARiver (1)
Total (Declared): 2
Actual: 2

Norse

Confirmed\Declared:
Total (Declared): 0
Actual: 1

Did not vote

Confirmed\Declared: Katy (0) + Xmite81 (0) + Tarhalindur (2) + Albatross (1)

Unaccounted for

Votes: 5 for Old Ones + 1 for Norse
Players:
Plum (1)
Percy (?)
manho (3)

Reasoning to fill the blanks

- manho declared in thread that he meant to follow Iecerint on JCA
- Which leaves Plum on Norse and Percy on Old Ones. This also means Percy has to be 2 votes i.e "Too Human"
- Therefore case ii is invalidated and case i is right - Percy was "Too Human"

---

Of course the reasoning for N2 has four implicit assumptions:
a) Dead players cannot worship vote.
b) Lynched\Modkilled players worship vote does not count.
- Technically, Blaze could have sent in his worship vote before he was killed. If we assume Norse again for Blaze, Plum\Pom would have to be Old ones.
c) Worship votes per player cannot change
- Maybe the scum (cult or mafia; leaning towards the former) can steal worship votes from the dead
d) One of the "Did not vote" category is lying
- Katy, Xite could have abstained from voting N1 and still count
- Albatross could be lying about not voting N2

[Nikanor]

I actually considered protecting Spyrex until all that weird-arse "TNM is scum can you feel it?" shit he was going on with at the end of day 1 (which in a way I was thankful for as I wanted a bit of suspicion on me to help protect me from the NK). I didn't really give MO any thought, though as I've already said I've played with Zorblag before and he came across as extremely pro-town in that game when he was actually scum. In the end I thought that scum are more likely to target someone who has been under the radar. It wasn't until day 2 that I realised I probably could have protected myself by targetting the person two spots above me, and I probably would have just done that if I had thought of it the previous night.

You considered SpyreX until he called you suspicious?

[ooba]

You considered SpyreX until he called you suspicious?

Any reason why you made two posts in between after TNM's post and then came back to it again?
Waiting to see how the town leans on raj?

[Nikanor]

I didn't actually read his post until now.
And I've already taken a stance on raj. I'm not going back on what I've said.

[Albatross]

Hey, don't have much time right now for a long post. I believe I have some questions waiting for me, I'll get them tomorrow.

I would be very surprised if Blaz didn't have the too human modifier, because, you know...:

1. BlazeRb (replacing Starbuck) - Thor, the Mighty

(Too Human)

- Survivor, modkilled Day 2, removed from the game Night 2

Anyway, Honoring my commitment to Fate.

vote:Raj

[Albatross]

vote:Raj

[rajrhcpfreak]

messaged the mod to get clarification why Too Human is left off what i got, and essentially its the source (the video game) but not the power.

Might Orbots is doing well so i will add so some of these/comment on them

@ooba, the too human bit we got from the mod about BlazezRb on his flip would have been his universe rather than the actual ability I think. That'd match the Stargate for SaintKerrigan and Sandman for SpyreX for example. Given what I can tell from the flavor of the game I could see Thor not having that passive ability (he was mostly cybernetic.) Your character in particular is the one that is too human in the game based on the description.

@Iecerint, rajrhpcfreak probably did use the ability he's described on BlazezRb's corpse once it hit the graveyard (given that we know it was there for a time and it got removed.) I'm inclined to think that he's giving essentially true information about it as there's no good reason for him to be lying and he's giving the sort of information that I expect to get from my autopsy ability which should be the same thing except that apparently it happens at a different stage of the death cycle (mine works before they get to the graveyard.)

@Albert B. Rampage, it wasn't rajrhpcfreak that said he had a different win condition than the rest of us that was Xite91 (who says they don't have access to it yet if memory serves.) rajrhpcfreak is a good vote now because they're not doing anything that helps the town that I can see. Previously there was also some fishiness about the claim but that seems to add up now except that there's no reason I can think of for it to take town so long to get around to sharing the coroner stuff with the rest of us when there was clearly confusion about what BlazezRb's abilities and hammer were doing.

@rajrhcpfreak, why didn't you share that information about BlazezRb right away? Why make it look like you were going to be getting it later?

@DarkStalker, I said it before but I'll say it again here. Leaving rajrhcpfreak alive on the grounds that after a recruit Albert B. Rampage can use his census ability to tell what the alignment of the replacement has to be is a poor idea...

+ooba, yes too human is the universe, is there a reason for people to post the universe when if you are a god then you are from the same universe as the other gods in your area.

+iec, nothing more to add than the fact that i have no reason to lie about my ability. anyone that thinks im lying about it is a moron and anyone who is picking out the symantic of the too human is nitpicking which is usually a scum tell or bad town play usually a sign of tunneling. would you rather i copy the role i got straight from the mod so i can get modkilled?

+ABR, yeah im pretty sure i didnt say i had a different win condition so please stop adding that in your arguements. on the arguements im not helping, i am being completely open about my investigation and willing to help the town.

@mighty, why not? i was lazy for one. i wasnt for a claim so i was just claiming what i needed. actually just waiting for someone to ask. i had it the whole morning but it wasnt going into the graveyard until i released it. i guess after i ran my examinations on the body i stole. since this was my first role i was able to get i didnt know when it was going to show up for the town to see. since i had until the end of the day to release it i assumed that it would show up then. apparently i was wrong.

+DS, i love the idea of proving myself but thats just because i get a few more nights. it might be a poor idea of only keeping me around for that reason, but if there is someone scummier then wouldnt it make sense to pick that person and allow me to prove myself.


other thoughts there are alot of late joiners that are scum busing. but you all can deal with that after i die.

[Mighty Orbots]

@ooba, looking back in my quicktopic with her, Plum said during Night Two that she was planning on worshiping JCA the one time she talked about it. That would mean that the one vote for the Norse almost certainly had to come from either BlazezRb or inHimshallibe I think. We can get confirmation from Pomegranate about that after she's talked to the mod but unless someone is lying about something I think that at least one of those two has to have just one vote (which means it's somewhat likely that both do and that it's possible BlazezRb did get a vote in for the Norse before getting modkilled.)

In any case, this is mostly important here in terms of how likely rajrhpcfreak is to be lying about the information he got from BlazezRb's corpse (and to a lesser degree whether Albert B. Rampage really has two votes.)

At this point who are your top suspects if rajrhpcfreak is telling the truth about what he's got from him coroner's report?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Faraday]

fuck.

v/la unexpectedly came earlier. off to oxegen to work, so won't have access untill monday next.

[Iecerint]

@ Ooba, I don't get where you think I'm being defensive. Show?

@ MO, it's a Passive ability. There is no indication either in my role PM or in the Norse QT proper that the Norse Gods are based on the Too Human universe (though the pattern of other players' abilities and Percy's flip do imply that that was the case). When I saw my "Too Human" ability, I thought it was an allusion to the fact that Baldur eventually dies in Norse mythology and everyone was sad (e.g. he dies like a mortal, so he's Too Human).

I think I may have even mistyped the ability as "Too Mortal" at some point in the game, since that kind of ability name jives more with my interpretation, but I may have corrected it before posting it due to looking at my role PM.

[Iecerint]

@ raj, I've indicated how it could be possible for you to have made that up -- scum with Percy, scum may post role PMs, use Percy's PM as a model, screw up the Too Human bit. It's a bit of a longshot, not unlike the possibility that Blaze simply wasn't Too Human (especially given that he flipped as such, which I'd missed).

MO's recent explanation that Blaze was not a double voter while still being from the Too Human universe would make everything jive nicely, though.

[Xite91]

Sorry guys, unfortunately life decided to happen all at once, so I will be V/LA on and off for the next two or three, but I should be able to get on at least every three days if I've planned correctly. Just a warning in case I haven't though

I actually considered protecting Spyrex until all that weird-arse "TNM is scum can you feel it?" shit he was going on with at the end of day 1 (which in a way I was thankful for as I wanted a bit of suspicion on me to help protect me from the NK). I didn't really give MO any thought, though as I've already said I've played with Zorblag before and he came across as extremely pro-town in that game when he was actually scum. In the end I thought that scum are more likely to target someone who has been under the radar. It wasn't until day 2 that I realised I probably could have protected myself by targetting the person two spots above me, and I probably would have just done that if I had thought of it the previous night.

I think someone might have addressed this already but wtf?
First, you were going to protect him, then you weren't because he called out suspicion on you? How is that town-like?
Second, Wait, I might have misread this, but you protected MO right?
He's coming off as extremely pro-town to me in this game, acording to your meta that's not a good thing, so why did you protect him (could have been a misread, if so correct me and I will be duly embarrassed)
Third, If you had suspicion on you and thought you were going to me protected from the nk because of it, why would you waste your protect on yourself?

FoS TNM

[Snow_Bunny]

Well, I guess from the point of view of some of you there's the possibility that I'm scum, but I can't do anything about it. Only things I can claim on my behalf fall on WIFOM, and I rather don't go there. So, let's leave that option open if you want for now. It's better that way. Maybe with my next target (tomorrow night, right?) I'll be able to prove myself better.

Albatross' 2278 post is quite interesting. However, although it's true that scum would get a bit more confusing, I don't find that idea to be much of pro-town. After all, at least in my case, I wouldn't know who should I give my item. Yeah, I may find a player pro-town, but that doesn't clear him. I wouldn't like to give scum another way to kill players. :/

I don't think the scum doc would openly claim in thread that he protected the GF. I know WIFOM, but still. >.>

S_B is today's lynch. No one else particularly stands out.

Elaborate, please. So, you're not finding the case on tnm appealing? What about MO vs ABR? The CMAR wagon? Hmm...

I myself am finding the case on ABR interesting. However, I rather lynch scum than cult leader.

Page 94 and reading...

[Fate]

ABR isn't a fucking cult leader.

What the hell guys.

[Xite91]

ABR isn't a fucking cult leader.

What the hell guys.

I agree with fate on this
Also ISTR ABR saying something about him being sure there was 1 scum in his qt?
Wouldn't it make sense if it was because he was the 1 scum?

[Parama]

^he was late to the party, InHim was in his QT and all

[Xite91]

Oh, ok makes sense, but did he ever clarify how he knew that?

[Katy]

Katy, your information on dramonic was his role name ("White Knight"). But Xite91 claims he's a "Wayward Spirit," not just a "benevolent spirit." Are you saying his role name was "benevolent spirit"?

Well, my role PM does not explicitly state that I am a rolecop - it has the name of my power and then it tells me that I get important information about my target while I am in this higher state at night. My info on Dramonic turned out to be his role name, but I've double checked my PM once again and what it says about Ortolan is that he is a benevolent spirit. I am not 100% sure whether that is supposed to be the role name but if my next result is also a role name then yeah, I would say benevolent spirit was Orto's role name and I'm not sure then, why Xite has claimed a role name of Wayward Spirit instead unless the role changed somehow--which may explain his unknown win condition. If Xite's role changed at some point from benevolent spirit to wayward spirit, well ... I don't know then, that's a bit worrying.

Uhm, no. I think ooba was the only player voting me at that time. Then raj started voting me. Then IEC and TNM joined the wagon in the posts right after Raj's. And later you joined the wagon. Go here:
viewtopic.php?p=2307487#p2307487
and retrace the game flow for yourself from right after DS(Ani)'s post. While "why Raj was worried voting dram would end the day quickly with 3 votes" is still a mystery it is not an inconsistency when compared to his treatement of me. 3rd on wagon vs 2nd on wagon.

Okay thanks ... I had looked at the vote count and for some reason thought it was made closer to Raj's post and didn't realize how many of those votes happened after Raj's post. So that does explain the second part, but still doesn't explain the weird excuse to not vote Dram. It makes it a bit less scummy though. And then I read this:

Well he says he has a different win condition than town and my census on Night 1 says otherwise. He probably missed what I said so he said that and he's scum.

Oh really. Can you quote where you are getting this from, because there seems to be some debate about whether this is true. I don't see it in his claim and in isoing him I can't find where he says he has a different win condition from town. What makes you think he has claimed a separate win condition? Are you thinking of Xite, who has claimed a secret condition?

Also, the info DTM has given about his item matches how mine works. I am bound to my item now and can use it. My item's abilities do not match any previously claimed abilities, though.

[Pomegranate]

Pom - I am sure you would have received a reply from the mod. Who did you worship vote on N2?

N1- GOO

N2- JCA