Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Albert B. Rampage]

That's not WIFOM, Parama.

If I don't say anything, you don't even know there's a cult.

If I say something, now you know there's a cult and it can be anyone. Doesn't make it more likely to be me at all. And besides, when I die, I show up guilty, not "cult".

WIFOM is when you do something expecting someone else to react in a certain way. Now that person tries to outguess what they thought you thought they would think. Two completely different scenarios.

Furthermore, why would I purposely try to get NK'd by claiming powerful abilities on Day 1 and asking town not to protect me or anything? It's because I'm expandable. Now do you really want to waste a lynch on me?

[Faraday]

i'm v/al for like idk 2 days max. will post after i sleep which will hopefully be soon.

[ooba]

@ooba, the people who make sense to have received BlazezRb's hammer based on what he said have denied having it so far as I can tell. Further we probably wouldn't see it's effects showing up today with the universal roleblock going anyhow.

Forgot that! Ignore my last post.

24. rajrhcpfreak
I was reminded of this role:

Role Name: Zombie
Summary: BRAAAAAIIINNSSSS!!!!! (SK+ with 1 shot NK immunity)

Zombies typically don't fit in quite well in social scenarios, but this scenario is far from normal. Each night, you can send me the name of one other person you wish to zombify. Unfortunately, while you have retained your intelligence, they will not. The people you zombify will appear dead to the town, however, if you are still alive and the number of people you have zombified plus you is greater than or equal to the number of other remaining people, your undead minions will rise from the grave and kill them all. In addition, the first time anyone tries to kill you their attempt will fail due to their lack of head shots. Any subsequent kill attempts by anyone will be successful, as even a great zombie falls to enough physical damage.

You win when you plus the number of people you have killed is greater than or equal the number of other living players (if you are alive at this point).

The role screamed cult to me but I am beginning to doubt whether there is a cult in the game. I am leaning town for now.
Note: Please do not bring the Frankenstein monster into the game.

12. totallynotmafia
I actually believe his claim.

3. Albert B. Rampage
Now leaning a third party role which has to get rid of all the Norse gods. Guessing he gets powers if Norse are not worshiped for two consecutive days (perhaps a kill).
Given Iece's invulnerability, I think worshiping Norse might be a good idea today.

[Mighty Orbots]

Actually, something else to keep in mind for today would be that with passive abilities down worship votes probably won't come in the numbers we're expecting. There's some reason to think based on the "And for 24 hours all were mortal" in this post that everyone's worship vote might act as normal mortal worshiping. Even if that's not true we shouldn't plan on effects like Fate's worship vote counting as 4 (where ever he's coming up with that) or other such effects kicking in.

@Albert B. Rampage, actually, you're playing a game that I associate with you as scum rather than town in general (disengaged) but regardless of whether I should think you're town or not the questions I'm asking are for general information purposes. I'd want to know the answers to them regardless of your alignment.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Albert B. Rampage]

I can't summon anyone if Norse are worshiped.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm disengaged because I'm not going to play mafia anymore after my games end. I don't spend much time on the computer anymore except when I'm writing articles or browsing for a new laptop.

[Mighty Orbots]

@Albert B. Rampage, yeah, that does match what you've said but it doesn't overly change my thoughts about this game. It's also probably the case that it'd be worth making that clear in the /in-vitationals Round Two thread as I suspect people in general are planning on you being available to be in those games.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Albert B. Rampage]

Oh I already PM'd Mith about that a few days ago.

[Albert B. Rampage]

This site is about *this* close to becoming a bigger headache than it is worth.

[Nikanor]

I don't think the scum doc would openly claim in thread that he protected the GF. I know WIFOM, but still. >.>

There are trackers claimed.

so I TRUSTED that he had made his choice and wasn't doing anything funny lest he be found out later as a liar.

Do you know me at all?

Anyone with a modified number of worship votes should PM the mod to see if that's working today.
ooba: For someone who likes analysing worship votes, you seem rather hesitant to make a plan. If you don't like my worship plan, you should suggest your own and place yourself worshipping with the people you think are most likely to be scum. Then, if one of those people are scum and you don't announce your target, they should be sufficiently afraid of your redirect to attempt to kill you.
Let's just say that I don't trust you so much that I don't want to keep you on a leash. Just be grateful yours isn't as short as VasudeVa's.

[DarkStalker]

I, PF, have reviewed all claims now and read up to 88. Its probably only 30 minutes before those that crashed at my place wake up. I may be a light weight compared to them but at least I somehow managed to not still be drunk and passed out. Guess I'll get this in now before the partying get's going again.

I'm a bit concerned that SB might be scum claiming Vig. (And scum might have redirected my protect me to SB etc.) Was inHim SB's real target or was she redirected to inHim?

It's awfully convenient that SB claimed that her intended target was inHim when Faraday redirected her to inHim. The unclaimed redirect of my protect and SB getting my protection makes her obvscum.

I'd like Spy to shed a light on why he didn't get my protection. If he didn't worship GOO, then SB is scum. (But if I was redirected then I'm so screwed.)

Vote: Snow_Bunny

I'm also a bit wary of all the miller claims. Since they are basically Death Millers for a few phases, then finding links will be a little more complicated.

I will concede that SB is not confirmed town until both a mafia kill and her kill happen on the same night. I was incorrect earlier. But your suspicions on SB seem to rest on the idea that SB is scum and you were redirected to her. If you were redirected as such, scum must of thought SB was in danger. If she is scum then logically only town would want to kill her.

1. What suspicion did SB have on her day 2 that would make a town killing role go after her? No one was suspecting her at the end of day 2. Everyone was shouting at her to kill X, not suspecting her. Do you disagree, VasudeVa?

2. Why wouldn't scum instead use you to protect their GF that Tar and DTM are chasing instead?

@Parama

Your claim said Esclouta(Now VV) visits. If you are a weak tracker like that, how did you know he went to Nikanor on day 2? Also wouldn't you instead know he went to spyreX? As the mystery of VasuDeva targeting is still not resolved, perhaps an answer can be found here.

##########

@AdumbroDeus

Actually I marked that as him not understanding the mechanics behind worship abilities, hence his "just found out" post, he either just asked the mod, or just realized the implications of it and figured it was activated. There's no benefit to me for revealing it's a worship ability as opposed to merely being unkillable, well beyond point out that cmar was just idiotic town and didn't belong in a game this complex.

When did Cmar say something like this? I don't recall it.

Also

Delirium/Delight (from Sandman comics)
As Delirium he was a randomizer, as delight, he empowered targets
If the old ones were worshipped, all the Endless are empowered, I think he means his empower ability effects us all.

Did spyreX say what exactly would empower us? I have a vague memory of someone mentioning the word empower ealier during the claims or perhaps earlier and I want to compare some things.

@Faraday

Doesn't this depend on how the re-director abillity works? I think it varies from Mod to Mod, but I don't think the 2nd re-director would show up as targetting snow_bunny, but having targeted Vas himself. I guess this can be clarified with the Mod but I don't think I'd have shown up as targeting Inhim last night, even though I re-directed Snow to him.

Hmm i can't think of a time where I've seen a mod act as you suggest. Where have you seen a mod do that? In my experience, if a tracker were to hypothetically track a redirector, they would see 2 targets meaning they would target both the individual and the destination. I suppose we could ask beholder and see if he is allowed to answer.

@Beholder
If a redirector sent person A at person B would a tracker see the redirector target both A and B?

Hypothetical? Check.
Role Question? Check.
Sent in a PM? Oooohh, so close.

@orbits

It's already been pointed out but rajrhcpfreak's grave rob ability really probably shouldn't work on a player who was mod killed and never in the grave yard. I don't see why he'd be able to use that coroner ability he's claiming on someone that died by making the game worse so much sooner than he would for anyone who died legitimately. I also happen to know that my (previously unmentioned) one shot autopsy ability is only usable on people before they get to the graveyard. It's a bit surprising that there'd be an additional coroner component of the grave steal which happened later at a significantly different point of a character's cycle (they don't hit the graveyard until after their actual role and alignment have been revealed.)

I believe I did see blaze get thrown in the graveyard at end of day 2. And if we assume CMAR really can talk to the dead then why blaze was moved to graveyard imediatly, and not held before burial, could be because blaze was modkilled and the mod did not want a rule breaker talking to the living. Raj's skill appears to already happened on blaze, we'll have to wait and see if the rest happens.

@Fate

Why did you lie about having a QT with Nikanor?

@nikanor

Why did you allow Fate to lie and not correct him, vote him, or ask him wtf? Also You said you loose your skill if Goo does not get 20%. Do you loose it permanently or just for that night?

##########

@Fate & Tar & ABR

Only Cop skill claimed was by Orbits and yet we have 3 claimed millers (You, ABR, Tar) and there was a GF. That many alignment alters and only 1 one-shot inspect? What do you make of it and do you all show up as scum at time of reveal as ABR claims he does?

@Xite

So you have no idea what your win condition is, Correct? Given ABR's census either Xite is wrong or lying about what they know, or ABR is wrong or lying about what he knows, or

ABR's census got Mina but missed Xite, or Xite is town and doesn't know it.

Is there nothing else you can tell us, Xite? ATM I and leaning towards one of the underlined being the most likly solution given Plum/Pom's claim working with the census. Its either that or ABR and Plum/Pom are scum buddies. And given Pom seemed ignorant of Plum's claim when she first arrived, I highly doubt pom would have also claimed survivor just like plum.

You are forgetting that we(or to be specific, you guys) already tried lynching him and he didn't die.

Xite's roleclaim fits pretty well with the lynch failing day 1. It's kinda hard to lynch something that is already dead/incorporeal. Furthermore, scum claiming not to know what their win condition is would mostly just serve to create more work for them/draw more attention and doesn't help them out in any strategic sense other then through the dreaded WIFOM. Combined with Katy's rolename type investigation means that in order for Xite to be scum, he would have to be both kill immune and investigation immune separate from the scum godfather which seems kind-of over powered. Xite could feasibly be the cult recruiter, but eh. I doubt it. There is also no real reason to believe that lynching her would be any more effective than it was day 1.

Actually Orbit's super block may actually allow us to lynch xite today. That is not meant to mean I support it. ATM I don't. I'm just up for discussing the ABR vs Xite thing today as getting a resolution to it sooner is probably better than later should either of them be cult.

[Parama]

@Parama

Your claim said Esclouta(Now VV) visits. If you are a weak tracker like that, how did you know he went to Nikanor on day 2? Also wouldn't you instead know he went to spyreX? As the mystery of VasuDeva targeting is still not resolved, perhaps an answer can be found here.

I didn't claim that I knew who VV visited .-. He himself did reveal it though.

[Nikanor]

Why did you allow Fate to lie and not correct him, vote him, or ask him wtf? Also You said you loose your skill if Goo does not get 20%. Do you loose it permanently or just for that night?

a) Because I thought it was obviously a lie. He claimed to be my buddy and claimed a six-man QT with me. Six is the number of scum in the game. How people did not get that automatically I am not sure.
b) I lose it just for that night. It's a passive ability called "Must be loved".

[Iecerint]

@ ABR, why do you say that MO in particular should know you're town? Like, is it because he can see into your heart, or another reason?

Upon ooba's request,

Vote: raj

again.

[Chronopie]

So Fate is calling Fate scummy?

Good enough for me

VOTE: Fate

Baa

OMGUS ACROSS ANOTHER GAMES?

>_>
<_<

OH NOESSSSSS THE PRICE OF A SCUM VICTORY IS GREAT!

Well you have a... 90% chance of being right? and you're calling yourself scummy...

[DarkStalker]

@Parama

Your claim said Esclouta(Now VV) visits. If you are a weak tracker like that, how did you know he went to Nikanor on day 2? Also wouldn't you instead know he went to spyreX? As the mystery of VasuDeva targeting is still not resolved, perhaps an answer can be found here.

I didn't claim that I knew who VV visited .-. He himself did reveal it though.

Oh ok, my mistake. I incorrectly infered you had seen the entire trip because of this exchange:

Parama has a night result on him.

But he's a dumbass because I WAS THE ONE THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO CLAIM IT.

Whatever, scum feel free to kill my incompetent QT buddy.

VV soon claims

@ Fate/P -- what information on VV would have necessitated a claim?

I mean, if you tracked him, you saw him target a sketchy player. If it was something else, nothing VV just said would have affected matters. Use discretion as you answer, of course, but I don't understand.

Nikanor was town and not sketchy, so I don't like people touching him.

Also FOR THE RECORD Parama asked him to claim, not me. I just said "well whatever" and supported my GOOD PAL.

Also we now have VV as confirmed town WHO IS IMMUNE TO NKS, you got a problem with that?

Iec who the hell is your vote on anyone? You're almost as useless as manho.

Now that everyone is up and moving at my place they don't seem to want to party again. . They have gone home now. So I will take some more time to read the thread and then go watch fireworks somewhere and post early tomorrow as i'm off work.

Guess I'll have to PM beholder that question I said earlier. Anyone else also curious to the answer should do the same then

[rajrhcpfreak]

since people are pretty curious i guess i can give you this info. prolly should have posted it before he was moved into the gaveyard to confirm myself even more.

but here it is:
Thor, the Mighty

his rapid ability is:
Cover Action: a player's actions cannot be redirected while Thor covers them. Thor may change the target of this ability once per day.
Returning: may call Mjonir to return to him once per game if he has granted it to another player. Mjonir is removed from its current player or returned to the game, and Thor reacquires this item.

his passive ability is:
Collateral Damage: votes, actions, and abilities also effect the player above and below his target on the player list as long as he carries Mjonir.
Norse God: he receives all the benefits of being a Norse God.
Runed: he has full access to Yggdrasil in a QT thread

Sentient Hammer Mjonir:
The current bearer of this item can give it to another. This ability does not count toward your one ability per day. The bearer's abilities, votes, and actions cannot be redirected. Only a god can wield this weapon. If the bearer of this item dies, this item does not drop to the ground and is instead removed from the game.

he was pro town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@Iec

because he played with me alot

[Iecerint]

He wasn't Too Human?

It looks like Collateral Damage may have only applied while Blaze himself was holding the hammer.

[DarkStalker]

By the way, the VV case is wrong. I had my ability timing clarified with the mod - since it is a daybreak action, the worship votes gets activated only in the morning so it works for the next day/night cycle. Hence, VV protected spyreX for D2\N2 when he was already dead.

Ok that explains why Nika's QT ultimatly hit nika and IEC. You weren't mimicing him until d2n2. That could explains why VV didn't save SpyreX then. SpyreX was dead before any of all that kicked in.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p2349129

Also Ooba did ABR say he had same worship stips like IEC counting as 2? Did we really confirm all too human had that?

If IEC is only norse that had 2 and ABR had 1, Blaze had 1, and Set(SK) worshiped egypt

JCA would stay the same and correct.

Egypt would still equal out as the correct 12 as ABR -1 but SET +1

Norse would now be correct as blaze -1

Old ones would be the only question as if spyre voted them they would then be 2 over. Did VasudeVa really claim 4 worships? I thought he only claimed 2 which would make that then the correct count too. Though who did Percy worship again, that may change some numbers too. In general I'm not 100% sure you got the numbers right here or anywhere so any chance you can elaborate better or recount on what you think the true overnight worship results were?

##########

my opinion on the raj wagon is the same as nikanor's

If raj summons someone, the numbers in his wincon will change. That means that if mafia gains an extra member in the night he summons someone, we'll know he's mafia. If town gains someone, we'll know he's town. raj is a bad lynch for today.

Let's use ABR to see if Raj is scum. ABR's skill sounded like a daybreak skill which may be why ABR didn't get something at the start of today, because of the Mighty Block. And thus he may get something tomorrow or in the future. ABR can correct me if I assume wrong here. In general, if new game entry is scum then raj can die. Let's use today's lynch on someone else and wait for a gaurantee before we go after raj. Why risk lynching a townie today when we can gaurantee the truth the next day?

I'll admit to still having slight doubts about ABR but I can't fault a man just because he has a real life. Besides Using ABR like this will tell us that either Raj is scum, or the only way Raj could be scum is if ABR is scum. And if Raj is scum, and that makes ABR scum, then we have potential means to catch more than one scum. We either get one guaranteed scum in Raj or we get confirmed 2 confirmed town (Raj, his monster) or we get a good lead on a scum group. Sounds like a general win situation to me so I'm still down with using ABR to check on Raj unless ABR says otherwise.

Worship Plan: Night Three

• [Great Old Ones]
  (
  9/38 or 23.7%
  ):
  DarkStalker - 1
  ...

I'm proposing that JCA gets worship tonight.
-I don't want GOO to get worship because although I am awesome, my ability isn't powerful enough to warrant giving AdumbroDeus unkillability. DarkStalker's cuckoo ability is strong, but I don't really agree with force-replacing people on a game morality basis.
-I don't want Norse to get worship because then Iec will be unkillable (which is not really attractive for me), and ABR will lose his census.
-I don't want the Egyptians to get worship because Chronopie's ability will be useless tomorrow (the only dead-not-buried person will be the lynchee), and because I don't want Katy to become unkillable. Also, Pomegranate the survivor is Egyptian, so yeah.

Does anyone have a problem with this plan?

I can understand you not agreeing with it on morality basis. If you love a game and are having fun then you don't want to be replaced. If I ever use the thing then it should probably be used on a lurker who is just gonna get replaced anyway. Or some VI that has gone dumb and given up on the game all pissy. Though I may know type of person to use it on, I don't know who for sure, so i am fine with GOO not getting max worshiped. I am fine with your plan in general and know what I need to do.

##########

@ IEC

I think DS's cuckoo ability doesn't require GOO worship (?) ...

then you must have misread me. I can't fire the 1 shot skills unless I get worshiped. Yes they can both keep working after that phase but unless I get max worshipped, I can't even begin to use them. Does that clear things up for you?

@Katy

Your post was:

dramonic bandwagon.
i support it. i will join later. but i think we need to discuss more before we even get close to ending the day.

(there were two votes on Dramonic at that point.)

Then just below that you say:

Darkstalker.
top of the ooba list and is wanting to kill someone that cant defend thierself.

vote: DarkStalker

(there were five votes on DS at this point).

It's really inconsistent

Uhm, no. I think ooba was the only player voting me at that time. Then raj started voting me. Then IEC and TNM joined the wagon in the posts right after Raj's. And later you joined the wagon. Go here:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p2307487
and retrace the game flow for yourself from right after DS(Ani)'s post. While "why Raj was worried voting dram would end the day quickly with 3 votes" is still a mystery it is not an inconsistency when compared to his treatement of me. 3rd on wagon vs 2nd on wagon.

Also it appears the assumptions I made about the lottery:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p2337940
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p2340061
were completly wrong as DTM and Katy claimed items with JCA flavour. The lottery is likly then a product of JCA getting worshiped after all, just like how endless night was a property of the Goo

##########

Fuck. I was mulling it over, but I'm going to full claim some info about my sword from a claim I just read.

I'll reveal what my item is. Its Harusame, so I have Yoh's sword. (Which kinda makes sense as a protect). My oversoul is a redirect, but I need to use my initial protection three times to redirect. I can't over soul anyways so I'm claiming this now. Why am I claiming this? I mirror one of the Ex-laws's claim. What I think my protect is:

it's probably 0%. Why? If the original owner is dead, it doesn't work.

If the original owner is alive, then I can protect successfully. What this means, it's possible that one of the Shaman King characters are scum, or I'm given a red herring item. I'm thinking the latter at the moment. I can't really test this unless S_B is willing to vig for me a target.

@Nikanor
If my protect does go through, however that means someone is lying. That's what bugs me. But since I don't have much to do I'll do normal protects.

DTM recieved a Shaman King\Ex-las\JCA protect skill. Didn't TNM claim JCA and a protect skill? I rather doubt there would be 2 JCA skills that could protect. Either that item of yours is a fake as you suspect or TNM is lying about is skill and is scum. Its either that or he claimed a protect of the GF and him doing that as scum and claiming it is plausible as he would fear track/investigation roles like parama

I'm gonna go over TNM's most recent post and or pages 92 and onward shortly and see if my vote is best deserved there

[ooba]

ABR are you "Too Human"? aka worship votes count as 2 i.e mortals vote ..?

[Beholder]

Day 3, Vote Count 5

The Red Sun Lottery

Everyone is powerless, equal, and the introduction of the Lottery radically changes the balances.

2 Faraday

( 0 )

-
3 Albert B. Rampage

( 1 )

- Xite91, Parama
5 dramonic

( 0 )

-
6 chronopie

( 0 )

-
7 Fate

( 1 )

- Chroniepie
8 ooba

( 0 )

-
9 Mighty Orbots

( 0 )

- Rampage
10 Parama

( 0 )

-
11 Plum

( 0 )

-
12 totallynotmafia

( 4 )

- Faraday, Dramonic, Fate, Nikator
14 VasudeVa

( 0 )

-
15 DarkStalker

( 1 )

- TotallyNotMafia
16 Snow_Bunny

( 1 )

- Vas
17 Nikanor

( 0 )

-
18 Mina

( 0 )

-
20 Katy

( 0 )

-
21 Tarhalindur

( 0 )

-
23 Albatross

( 3 )

- Nikator, Snow_Bunny, Ooba
24 rajrhcpfreak

( 1 )

- Orbots, Iece
25 AdumbroDeus

( 5 )

- DarkStalker, Chroniepie, Tar
26 Iecerint

( 0 )

-
27 Xite91

( 1 )

-
28 DTMaster

( 0 )

-

Votes Required to Lynch: 12
Not Voting: 5
Deadline: July 21

Gave you guys both weeks of the extension, so the final deadline is July 21st. However, there will be no more extensions beyond this point (save for national level emergency, and even then its a maybe).

[Fate]

OOBA I WAS COUNTING ON YOU TO DO MY WORK FOR ME.

MOAR CLAIM ANALYSIS PL0X

[DTMaster]

Fuck. Sorry been at work. To clarify my sword is of Buddah orgins, not JCA. I also found out that my item will work since it's bound to me, rather then the original character Yoh. Therefore Yoh isn't in the game, and I can protect.

[rajrhcpfreak]

AdumbroDeus, did i see that correctly? you cant be killed except for your passive ability. does that include lynches?