Mini 1000: The Brave and the Beautiful (Game Over)

[MagnaofIllusion]

My eyes ... the Wall of Pink ... it burns it burns ...

SK edit: Would you prefer this? ;]

Greetings to those I know.

Hello to those I don't

VOTE: Furcolow. You probably use a Game-Shark.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Good to see that there are plenty of personal beefs to go around

I'll get to answering Neto's "poll" when I'm back.

I forgot to do this Friday

@MOD I'm V/LA for the holiday weekend til Tuesday.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Back from my 4th of July family duties.

First things first – Neto’s list –

1. Because I enjoy it.
2. The world may never know. Didn’t you see the commercial?
3. I was wondering if RC was EVER going to actually get around to starting the game.
4. Obviously the game is won for me when the win condition in my Role-PM is accomplished. For that to happen the truly chaotic elements of the playerlist most likely didn’t become the dominant influence on the game.
5. Baby’s breath.
6. I can’t say as I’m ‘proud’ in general so this will be a stretch. I guess you could look at
KOL Mafia to see the game where my contributions made the biggest impact on my affiliation’s victory.
7. This is therefore not an answer.

I'm going to withhold information from this town by not answering Neto's questions.

Glad you are so up-front with your pretend Anti-Town play.

I'm just sayin' I've been played by Neto before. I have made the mistake of automatically calling him town then listening to him.

Why do you assume that your short-comings in regards to Neto are automatically shared by the rest of the player-base?

What, exactly, about it? (This is like pulling teeth...)

You said you’ve played with Ythan before and this surprises you?

Also, would you please follow through on your stated intention to post your answers to your own questions? Enough players have answered that I think your worry about tainting (which is rather absurd out of a Newbie game anyway) no longer apply.

[MagnaofIllusion]

On the Zerg rush issue Robocopter when from two votes to five in a matter of approximately 6.5 hours.

Neto votes at 11:22am.
Fur votes at 5:04 pm.
Millar votes at 6:09pm.

The working assumption is that the Zerg rush was a Day ability enacted by the Mafia. Given that it would have ended Day 1 with a lynch on Page 6 I’m inclined to agree. I don’t see any Pro-Town motivation for doing so. Unless the player who initiated the Zerg rush also has a Day-Cop ability there is not reason to assume Town would have credible information that Robo is scum.

Of these votes Fur and Millar’s strike me as by far the most suspicious.

this game is getting on my nerves
i attribute it to robocopter, who always manages to get on my nerves
i am wanting a more fun game
##vote robocopter87

Your previous post said “oh no not robo” with a winky smile. Hardly the response of someone who really is likely to be irritated. This post thus looks like an OMGUS-lite to Robo’s criticism at 51 and 53.

Just caught up Vote: Robo

semes quite scummy from what i have gathered

Millar responds to the prod at 6:02pm stating he never got a Role PM. He retracts this at 6:04pm. His only previous post was his “confirm vodka bitches” post on Page 1.

He then says he has caught up with the entirety of the game in 5 minutes, but 6:09pm. I don’t by for a minute he read the thread, even with the general lack of content, in that time frame. This vote is clearly a bandwagon jump on Robo, as he was the easiest target.

So either scum was opportunistic with it’s use of the Zerg rush or it had some inside help. I’m leaning to Option B.

Everyone now has one less vote to stay alive. I have the normal amount.

Aside from the grammatical issues this post confirms Robo is Town in my mind, since he screwed up the mechanics as clearly indicated in 134.
I see no scum motivation in playing dumb that the lynch threshold dropped two and not one.

I think we need to be careful in future days and not vote until we are ready to lynch. Use FoS instead or something. If it turns out that robo is scum, I think millar could be his buddy since he immediately claimed that robo was confirmed town after that.
UNVOTE:

1. I agree that FOSing might be the wise way to go ala Square Enix Mafia.
2 Why did you unvote millar when you still find him suspicious?

Oh, I'm still more than willing to hammer, especially now that Robo has claimed. I just wanted to hear a claim first.

What about hearing the claim in itself is useful to you if you will hammer regardless of what the claim is? That’s not a Pro-Town thought process.

@Neto – Given your self-professed logical approach to the game how do you explain what appears to be gut-based reactions at 160 and 164and
166 ?

These seem very out of character and illogical. You had 16 minutes to carefully process your thoughts between 160 and 166. Why did you only ‘gather your thoughts’ at 169? And it only took you two minutes to process and come to your conclusion at 171.

Honesty i dislike him totally, in the way he plays and his general attitude. And if he is off the scene, then I am actually able to play the game and search for mafiascum instead of human scum

So you are basing your vote on dislike of his playstyle, not specific actions you think are scummy. I’m not sure what “off the scene“ means but I’m assuming you are supporting him for a policy lynch.

1) You are putting a target over you head
2) You are trying to use it as leverage not to get lynched (but ultimatley mafia will normally NK u unless you are fellow scum)
3) If you mention roles, but then say you will only reveal say at L-1 rather than L-2...then that is just scummy.

1. As the prospective lynch at that point he already has a target. What is your point?
2. Why shouldn’t a Town player attempt to use any leverage he has to derail his lynch (assuming for the sake of discussion ONLY that Robo is Town) ?
3. L-1 is the standard place to claim in small games. It’s not scummy to refuse to reveal your role if you are not in imminent danger of being lynched.

I'm not replacing out of a game, because someone has a vendetta on me and I'm stepping up to the mark.
Plus the fact that from a quick skim...he seems most scummy seems to be apparent. Its quite clear im not the only one that thinks this after only six pages

The first sentence makes zero sense. Who has a vendetta against you? I don’t see one evident.

Good of you to confirm that you did a quick skim of the thread. It confirms my thoughts that you were just looking for an opportune target. And your Appeal to the Majority in the last sentence is noted.

i still don't believe its a passive thing, but rather a selfish-self election thing.

Regardless of whether it is passive or active why is preventing your lynch (and thus playing to your win condition) inherently scummy?

However, someone did think they were going to kill you off though. Which means scum definitely fear you; which means despite everything i said earlier your 100% town.

And the quick back-track when you realize the most logical conclusion is that the Zerg rush was a quicklynch attempt in all likelihood scum driven. Scummy.

That is the exact point i made lol; i think we can confirm Robo as town.
Unless of course a fellow mafia member knew he would survive; in the ultimate cover-up

[/quote]

I don’t see it as a logical Mafia move to use what appears to be a limited use Day-Power which could easily secure a mis-lynch to instead ‘clear’ Robo. Especially when his claim is likely able to be tested in multiple way in the coming days. And also given that someone dropping a 6th vote for Robo spells his doom. It would be a very risky gambit for little gain, IMO.

I don’t see much of anything in your posts that I would categorize as Pro-Town.

UNVOTE: Fur
VOTE: millar13

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, are you really attacking me over the length of time involved in my thought processes? I thought I'd seen every flimsy argument in the book, but this is a new one on me. My questions were not gut based, they were very logical, as I was pointing out logical inconsistencies in Robo's claim as I originally thought about it. Admittedly, I got a bit overexcited.

Attacking someone who questioned you noted.

You responded over a 16 minute period with three posts when you were “overexcited”. Yet it only took you 2 minutes to gather your thoughts and come to the logical conclusion you drew, which I believe is correct. I’m flat out saying that your play in that period directly contradicts your presented style as someone who plays a logical and methodical game. You had plenty of time during the first period to logically and rationally assess what was presented.

Are you claiming that you read the Zerg attack and subsequent posts (including role-claim) and reacted in an over-excited manner as opposed to rationally drawing conclusions?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Reasons Kdub?

There are plenty of reasons in my big post you seem to be doing your best to pretend don't exist.

More votes / FOSes on obvscum millar please.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Welcome Spyrex …

Millar and Furc both still are both worthy of being the lynch today. Their votes earlier before the Zerg rush were horrible.

Furc’s 236 is just plain sad.

Neto’s vote for Robo was much more logically grounded than yours. Grammar is hardly a reason to vote for millar given his many other scummy moves. And Ythan is flirting with a level of restraint and civility I would not have expected.

Likewise millar’s hop onto Neto’s vote at 219 reads pretty clearly of scum feeling pressure and doing anything they can to shift focus, even if that anything is transparent buddying.

buddy, get out of here with that shit. i am just fucking telling you who i am, and that i can "interrogate" people. i can't see alignments, i can see people's abilities. i'm not 100% a cop, but i am confirmable town. if i get myself killed tonight by scum, what the fuck ever, i'd rather us have a chance to lynch fucking scum instead of you fucks mislynching me.

Please explain how your power makes you confirmable Town. Non-alignment based Cops can easily be of ANY alignment. Proven power does not equal proven alignment.

I can’t say that I really like your explosition of misplaced anger here but given Stars Aligned II it certainly isn’t a scum-tell for you.

Still waiting for millar’s “big case” on Shotty he indicated was coming at 243.

And if he actually is scum; then this ZERG thing could very well have been instigated by him
so would be irony if it was sort of pushing him againgst it.

You do understand that your position and reasoning when you voted for Robo makes you just as likely a candidate to be a scum involved in the Zerg quicklynch attempt.

Policy lynching a bad player is common; i often deserve it.

Policy lynch; even if i am town?

Wait, what? Are you just making up your opinions just to suit whatever current argument you have?

Iec’s 251 highlights the inherent oddness of the Neto – Shotty interaction nicely.

1. Neto’s vote and justification seems odd given that Furc and millar’s votes for Robo were much more damning, IMO.
2. Shotty’s OMGUS reaction and subsequent return to lurking is also very odd.

This bears revisiting down the line.

I pretty much agree with your Millar read, but I'm not moving my vote atm.

You agree with Iec that millar is the top scum suspect but prefer to keep your vote hanging on Neto where it has no legs. Especially given you aren’t doing anything to further support it? Reads as fence-sitting millar to me.

@Robo

– Answer Ythan’s 255 please. It should be a very easy explanation if you aren’t fake-claiming.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I said i was coming for STTB tomorrow, and going back ive type ")" instead 2 too make it Day 2. I'm not planning to post big case on STTB till the second day; as i don't think that STTB will be a lynch tonight or a very good one anyway. If things do change; then maybe I will make one. Day 2 it will come.

Would love to know your opinion on other players though; because it seems you are targeting me (fair enough everyone does lol) and Furcolow slighty.

Would love to know how you feel about Jack or does he not register?

If you think Shotty is scum why wait to make a case on him? Regardless of whether you think he is today’s lynch if you are Town the possibility of you dying in the Night with your ‘case’ unmade means you are depriving Town of information. If, that is, you actually intend to make a case.

Did you miss the portion of my post where I discuss Neto and Shotty’s interaction?

I think Jack would be more relevant IF HE WAS ACTUALLY IN THIS GAME.

Still Leveling Up
-bv310
-Furcolow
-Iecerint
-Kdub
-MagnaofIllusion
-millar13
-SpyreX Mindgamer
-Muffin
-Netopalis
-Robocopter87 SensFan
-Shotty to the Body
-Ythan

Insert Facepalm pic of choice here …

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Furc

- Ignoring the my request regarding how your ability proves your alignment?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Robo

– Please share your thoughts on millar.

I'm not going to make MAJOR CASES on everyone on D1...im not an idiot (there is a survivor aspect of this game; that everyone denies and very few actually sacrafice)

False argument .. no-one asked you to make a case on everyone – just the player you said you were “going after”. Given your play is so atrociously bad why should Town keep you alive? You are adding no scum-hunting, you aren’t even bothering to pay attention to who is actually playing the game and are making crap arguments. At this point I really don’t care if I don’t see your case on Shotty because quite frankly your play so far tells me it will be worthless.

Furcolow's play has been almost as crazy as millar's, but I'm leaning toward believing his claim. It's at least provable and is a useful town role. And if we're not going to believe a D1 investigative role claim, what are we going to believe anyway?

I’m going to ask you what I’ve asked Furc – why do you assume that Furc’s ability is Town based?

In regards to my Shotty case, my point is that Shotty didn't say much at all to support it. I think that his vote is more scummy for that reason, although Furcolow and Millar are close second and third.

You think that Shotty’s reasons presented when voting were worse than Furc’s or millar’s?

Guilty people are paranoid, innocents have nothing to fear.

Unvote vote robo

this game is getting on my nerves
i attribute it to robocopter, who always manages to get on my nerves
i am wanting a more fun game
##vote robocopter87

Just caught up Vote: Robo

semes quite scummy from what i have gathered

All three of the votes are pretty bad but Shotty at least advanced something that somewhat resembles an actual game reason. Furc’s reasoning is personal dislike and millar at voting time said nothing at all.

ythan, if you had been around when that zerg rush thing happened, i bet you would have hammered. muffin, millar, and robocopter were the ones who were on at that time.

Pointless speculation about what Ythan would or wouldn’t have done is not scum-hunting. Your conclusion is invalid.

they don't have to waste them on me either, because i don't get lynched as scum, and i always get lynched as town

Please provide links of completed games where you were not lynched as scum. If you can’t this is an invalid argument.

ATTENTION FURCOLOW –

I’m tired of you ignoring points specifically directed at you.

If you don’t answer these questions in your next post you have won my vote

.

1. How does confirmation that you have a non-alignment based Cop scan indicate you are not scum?
2. How does you plan to be watched / tracked, even if it is properly executed, prove you aren’t scum?
3. Why when discussing who was around for the Zerg attack do you specifically exclude bv310 and Iec from your list? Both posted within 20 minutes of Reaper’s Zerg posting.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Robo – Please share your thoughts on millar.

I thought I made it quite clear that I didn't think he was scum with my chainsaw defense.

You see his play and don't think in anyway it resembles scummy play?

[MagnaofIllusion]

1: I'm telling you my alignment and role, I don't know what else to do other than that. Believe me, or not, I am good.

That’s not the question I asked. I asked how you power proved your alignment. Thanks for filling your response with uselessness.

2. I saw this in another game... mafia in mendo I think... and it really helped the town. I'm just throwing out ideas to help with this.

Can you explained how it will help the Town? I see the following scenario.

1. You scan Ythan with your non-alignment proven power.
2. If we have a Watcher or Tracker they confirm you did so.
3. You tell us what power Ythan has.
4. If Ythan dies we have to decide if you are the one that killed him.
5. If Ythan doesn’t die we see whether he states you are lying about your ‘scan’
6. ?????
7. Profit.

Seriously how does this help town? It will not tell us if you are Scum or Town since an Ability cop could easily be a power from either side. It potentially outs a Watcher or Tracker for no real benefit. It will not confirm anything but perhaps what Ythan’s power is. And knowing that will not for tell us anything concrete about his alignment.

Whoa...
No clue whats Spyre is getting at...

So with that being said, Lets do what he says!
^^The above is serious, might as well just do what he's asking.

Hey Spyre,

Can you be a little more clear on this plan of yours?

So at 408 you say “Weee, what the heck let’s do this” and then come back at 417 with “Tell me more about this plan of yours”

Did millar’s accusations of buddying (specifically at bv310 but certainly applicable to you) scare you a bit?

@Sprex

– Given I know nothing about your plan but your voter list I’m certainly willing to listen. You think you can find a player that all 5 players would agree to lynch?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, You do know that I will be probably be the NK right? I already claimed a pretty powerful ability and am basically confirmed, making me a big target. Well, I will be the NK if there is only one NK.

Really I'd highly doubt you are the Nightkill right now. I don't see your hunting as out of the ordinary and you certainly played badly enough up till the Zerg Rush that despite you being a very likely confirmed innocent there are people who still consider you as potential scum.

And your power isn't what I would call being overwhelmingly powerful if it is what you stated. It makes you (and potentially someone else) a marginally more difficult lynch. It isn't inherently dangerous to scum from the standpoint of Night actions.

Also - as asked before please answer Ythan's question in regards to why Chun Li would have your claimed powers from a flavor perspective.

[MagnaofIllusion]

At the top I’d like to to a little orginizational work. The following shows if the members of Sprex’s proposed TMDS agree with the plan and their desire targets.

TEAM MURDER DEATH SQUAD

MagnaofIllusion – Agree, would like millar / Furc as the lync.
Bv310 – Agree, Furc or Shotty
Kdub – Agree, millar or bv310
Ythan – Agree, Furc or millar
Robocopter – Agree, Furc or Shotty

So it looks like millar and Furc are the most common agreed targets (no surprise). Kdub I’m going to throw out bv310 as I doubt he’s willing to lynch himself.

Bv310 and robocopter

– Would you be receptive at all to millar as the lynch?

Kdub

– is your potential acceptance of Shotty as a target dependant to his response? Would you absolutely not support Furc as the lynch based on his claim of detective / solidier / whatever the heck it was last?

Ythan

– would you consider Shotty?

I’ll re-read Shotty in ISO (should not take long) and decide if I am willing to support his lynch.

The chronology of his post is a a little weird; I'd like it if he could explain it to me. Also, why didn't you yell at me for keeping my vote on Ythan when I said Millar was top scum? I ask because you attack S2B for as much.

First off stop professing love for me no matter how much potential fan-fiction might result from the ‘combination’ of roles. It creeps me out a bit as buddying, quite frankly.

I’m not sure what you find about the Chronology to be weird? It was my first content post since the previous and I covered what had happened in thread since then. The millar hop on Shotty is the only part that predated my last post and upon my re-read it stuck out to me.

As for your vote issue – I didn’t address you because you were V/LA but wow looking back you kept your RVS vote on Ythan this entire time. Although you questioned him subsequently to the RVS vote your post of 251 doesn’t even put him in the second tier of potential scum. Thanks for bringing this up … what in the hell are you doing?

Are you saying that in no way does this confirm that myself and the watcher are working towards helping the town?

Pretty much. There are too many variables (collusion with potential scum-buddies, the fact that we don’t know for a fact that there is a Watcher in the game, etc) makes your “plan” so rife with holes it is useless at this stage. The fact that it ended up being useful in another game really isn’t relevant here.

What’s to prevent you from lying and saying “I checked Ythan and he’s got the Zerg rush ability” as scum?

I did not fakeclaim, I have not ever fakeclaimed.

I’m not going to just take your word on it regarding whether you did or not. And past performance (your claim about never fake-claiming) does not preclude you doing it here.

Also somewhat interested to note that some players are seemingly going along with it.

Can you see any big potential downside with his plan that could greatly damage Town by having select people on the lynch? His plan is vague at this point but I don’t forsee anything that could be totally crippling to Town given he’s willing to let others chose the lynch target.

[MagnaofIllusion]

loving that probably all the scum members could actually be in this death squad, and SpyreX could have organized this in private chat forum hence the new direciton; and muted agreement without reason

Depsite the logical flaw to your argument that Spyrex can’t be organizing for scum if ALL the scum are on the Death Squad (which Spyrex isn’t BTW) it is a concern to keep in the back of every player’s minds.

Do you think scum have Day-chat since that would be the only way they could organize a gambit while day is ongoing?

Do you think scum would create a gambit that places the 3 expected members of the scumteam in a Mini in a list of 6 players? Seems very high risk for little long-term reward to me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

OK Robo ... why don't you get around to answering this question.

Robo, since I saw you ask, I don't get why Chun Li would have that ability. Did you explain the connection and I just missed it?

Also - as asked before please answer Ythan's question in regards to why Chun Li would have your claimed powers from a flavor perspective.

Did we ever get an answer to this question?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Why would Chun-Li, from a flavor perspective, have a heightened lynch threshold as a passive and the ability to share it with others?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Having re-read Shotty’s ISO I’m whelmed. He really doesn’t provide much active content at all. The only thing I see outside of his OMGUS attack on Neto is his push against Robo for Robo’s perceived paranoia / defensive play early on. His post pattern looks like early development of an active lurking pattern.

At this point I’d only vote for him as deadline nears to make sure a No-lynch doesn’t happen.

Your post seemed like it would've been based on a readthrough, but you described events all out-of-order, so I figured you were writing it all from memory. It wasn't clear how you were organizing your thoughts, though, so I asked if there was some kind of narrative. It's not a hugely important point; just might help me read your post a little.

My large posts will almost never be narrative style. Enough people dislike large posts that I group comments and questions related to people together. Thus anything I have to say to you will be grouped together for ease of reading. The same for everyone else. FYI.

Just because bv is on Spyrex's list doesn't mean I'm going to stop calling him out for active lurking. Seriously, check his recent posting then look at his iso in this game.

I don’t disagree. Bv310 is a chronic lurker of both normal and active sorts.

you all realize we shouldn't no lynch, right?

No, we are all massive morons with not a brain in our collective skulls! [/sarcasm off]

TMDQ Business –

Deadline is in under 10 days so if we are going to enact Sprex’s plan we need to get moving forward soon.

Robo has indicated he will not lynch millar. That leaves Furc / Shotty as our two most common candidates.

Kdub – since neither of them is on your list would you entertain lynching either to allow Sprex’s plan to happen?

Ythan – If it comes to it would you support a Shotty lynch?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Reaper I think all the Twilight talk scared everyone away

Honestly until we either -

1. Get someone in the Death Squad to budge on millar (Robo), furc (kdub) or Shotty (Ythan) for the lynch to enact Sprex’s plan, or
2. Give up on the official plan and just vote as normal

then I don’t see much discussion coming forward.

Which is a pretty bad thing.

Shotty, bv310

– get your butts in here and post some content.

[MagnaofIllusion]

since i have no relevance in this Death Squad...wow fun game.
Leave out a town member;

Let's see what we've got here ..

1. Complaints about the lack of activity while doing NOTHING ABOUT IT, including posting the Shotty case you said you might do. Or might not. Who knows.
2. Useless statement that you are Town.
3. You do have relevance to the Death Squad - you'd be the perfect lynch target!

Thanks for your heartfelt active lurking millar.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Shotty case will come...although if I get to L-2...i will claim
and maybe you think the errors of your ways

Textbook AtE - check.

Robo

- can I not convince you that millar is the right choice for today? Seriously re-read my posts about him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Textbook AtE?

I don't do that shit or even know what means.
lol
and pretty sure scummy Furcolow claimed already
I'm pretty sure in saying that no scum-team would ever both claim in that fashion lol
so maybe u need to think about that.

Textbook i didn't the textbook

Actually yes you did exactly that. Claiming ignorance of your transgression does not make it magically go away.

Thanks for heaping a load of WIFOM regarding what scum-teams would and would not do on top of your emotional appeal.

I’m not even sure what the last sentence quite means …

DUURRRR

This does summarize your contributions quite nicely.

@Robo

- Insert facepalm pic of choice here ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

There's a textbook for AtE? Cooooool.

Anyway, I'm going to reread as soon as possible. Probably by tonight or tomorrow.

Are you really surprised? I mean there has got to be a textbook for lurking / active-lurking. It's in your library, right?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Spyrex

- Would it critically damage your plan to have Muffin replace Robocopter on a millar lynch? If not I'm seeing that as a viable option.

@Ythan and Kdub

- Still willing to lynch millar?

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD - I'll be LA from now til Monday for my usual weekend family duties.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I’m going to say one thing regarding Sarah Kerrigan and her flip – Her picture as a Ghost has exactly ZERO bearing on her being the person with the Zerg rush. The name of the game is “The Brave and the

Beautiful

”. I have huge doubts that Reaper would include a butt-ugly (nothing personal SK) version of Sarah Kerrigan as opposed to a nubile and hot version.

That said given it was millar who used the Zerg Rush (as I suggested early on, BTW) I’m rethinking the possibility he was just stupid Town trying to secure a lynch on Robo. Until I see some evidence in Green or Red regarding millar’s flip I’m not excluding the possibility he is Town. There Robo you no longer get the free “I’m not scum” pass for being the Zerg Rush victim.

the fact that players like you push on players like me is why this website is terrible for town play.

I have a VERY high rate of catching scum.

You should take notes.

Some demonstrable links supporting the bolded assertion or I’ll assume this is you just blowing smoke.

It's very mild, and I really don't have a great candidate for lynching. Everytime I've really tried to scumhunt to help out in a game it lynches a townie lol

Wait weren’t you just saying you were the Master Scumhunter? This seems a little bit contradictory … as if you just post by the seat of your ego and don’t bother thinking as you do so.

Could Samus Aran have been scum? I'm not that familiar with metroidal alignment.

Depending on how manipulative Reaper is being anyone could be scum. That said canonically Samus is pure hero.

he doesn't need to defend me u and shotty are scum buddies trying to push a policy lynch

Stop whining that every suspicion about you is a policy lynch. Your play Day 1 sucked and the only reason you aren’t under pressure for the way you hammered is that fact that millar flipped Sarah Kerrigan.

You over-reaction is noted, since Shotty didn’t even vote for you.

yeah, i'm a cop. you're dumb.

For the umpteenth f’ng time you’ve claimed Ability Cop not Cop. Huge difference. And also for the umpteenth f’ng time Proven Ability does not indicate Proven alignment.

And heck, you haven’t even proven the Ability. You are claiming it was stolen.

bv310, MoI, and Kdub are all possible lurky scum in my opinion.

Here’s a New flash for you … the game has only been unlocked for 24 hours. Someone not posting right away might be a sign that they perhaps are busy.

The more you post the deeper you dig. At this point I’d suggest doing more listening and less foot-in-mouthing.

Rereading D1, but I just want to point out real quick that my randomvote was the lynch, and was scum. I am awesome.

Any proof you can provide that millar was 100% confirmed scum Muffin? I don’t see any clear Mod indications. As stated above I’m not 100% sold that he wasn’t dumb Town. If that turns out the be the case (he was dumb Town) your statement above is a prime example of scum trying to cash in on an low information lynch for Town credit. Consider yourself being watched by eyes.

1. Scum have a Janitor role that works on lynches and made millar flip Kerrigan.
2. There are 2 Kerrigans in this game. The scum one (Furco, because KerriganKerriganTanya is like a total wall-banger) is zerg-version Kerrigan.

Option 2 I think is quite looney, IMO. Option 1 conflicts with the ruleset and thus is out the window.

Millar claimed something?

No. He said he would and then got quickhammered by Furc.

I was roleblocked last night. And if the roleblocker was town, they made a pretty bad move in my opinion.

Based on a later post are you confirming that you got a specific block PM from Reaper?

Given that Neto was offed I think I’ll start the day

VOTE: Shotty

You say you’ll have more time to provide content. Put up or shut up.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So if you agree that there's only 1 kerrigan in this game... are you suggesting the zerg rush could be a town-aligned power?

It’s unlikely but possible. Ythan had a similar ability as a JOAT in Weeds Mafia. What gives me pause is that millar played so badly I can see him trying a quicklynch on Robo (who at the time was Public Enemy Number 1 for his response to Neto) not realizing how scummy it would look and not cluing in to Robo’s crumbs that he had a raised lynch threshold.

I still think he’s most likely scum but am not going to bias my game with information I can’t completely rely on.

That was Ythan, as I noted previously.

Wrong. Robo claimed to be blocked and made a comment about flavor in a Reaper PM. I wanted confirmation from him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

We need more input from bv310 and kdub.

We need less spam from various others.

We need more vote on Shotty.

Get to work people!

[MagnaofIllusion]

Well, its obv a mafia Roleblock so it wouldn't effect them, duh.

So the Mafia get two kills?

And how does your speculation jive with Furc’s claim that he had his ability stolen? Or Ythan’s indication that he was visited but not killed? Is it a global role-block that isn’t global?

@bv310 and Robo

– Claim your targets (but not your abilities). It’s important.

Also @bv310

– Who is scum. I want a definitive position taken.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Iec – Why are you not voting for Kdub if you feel that he’s likely scum?

I think it might just be the player we targetted.

Expand on this a bit please. Why do you think the abilities failed simply because you targeted Furc?

I also targeted Furc.

I was visited, sorta.

First explain exactly what you mean by “was visited, sorta”. This kind of fuzzy disclosure isn’t good.

And I really want a good explanation for why you targeted Furc. You have previsiously claimed that your ability can be used on others to increase their lynch threshold by 1 for the Day. Why would you use this ability on Furc? You were gunning very hard for him Day 1. In fact you voted for him today. A reasonable explanation needs to be made stat.

Well, kinda visited. But whats so wrong about thinking about a global roleblock when multiple people weren't able to use abilities, whats the alternatives? A bunch of roleblockers?

Ya, three people lost abilities, I don't understand why a global role block isn't a possibility. What proves it wrong?

I don’t know where I should begin with these two statements.

1. Furc has claimed his ability was ‘stolen’ and thus he could not use it. He isn’t claiming to be directly blocked.
2. bv310 has claimed his ability failed.
3. You claim that you received a flavored PM stating you were Blocked. You later claim you were ‘sorta visited’.
4. Ythan claims to have received a PM saying he was visited last night.
5. There were two deaths at night. It seems unlikely that the Mafia gets two kills, although it can’t be 100% ruled out.

All five of these things point not to a universal role-block (inconsistent flavors and claimed action effects most strongly).

I’d like this all cleared up completely ASAP. I’m asking the following people to make the following information available

Furc

- can you confirm you got a PM from Reaper saying your ability was stolen as opposed to a PM saying you were role-blocked.

bv310

– please indicate whether you received a PM saying your power failed from Reaper or explain in general terms why you thought it failed.

Robo

– please answer the questions stated to you at the top.

Shotty continues to active lurk and provide no content. He deserves more love in the way of votes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

bv310 and Robo – Thank you for explaining quite clearly.

First off people – more Shotty votes.

I can’t make it any more clear than that.

Lastly I’m going to make the following offer –

Any Vig who wants any sort of chance of being viewed as Town and who shot Neto Night One had best pony up to it. Spyrex is clearly the Mafia kill of the Night so it’s a pretty simple choice for you.

Note to those who are not that potential Vig

– I don’t want to hear any crap about Role-fishing. I know what I’m doing. So save it for someone who cowers before Wikitells.

[MagnaofIllusion]

What do you hope to gain by outting a vig? I would like this answered before I move to my other points.

Move on to your other points ... did you not read what I wrote. I know what the hell I'm doing. And I'm eager for you to provide some sort of content.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Fine, next point, I shot Neto.

Ok that’s fine. Before I proceed I’m going to let everyone have a chance to counter the kill on Neto.

And thoughts as to who is scum would be greatly appreciated from your slot.

@Robocopter

– I have a question in regards to Shotty and Furc. I think I know the answer based on your vote but I want confirmation.

Whose claim do you find less credible – Furc as ability cop or Shotty as Vig?

Once kdub posts and Muffin, Iec and bv310 weigh in on Shotty’s claim I’ll provide my thoughts.

[MagnaofIllusion]

UNVOTE: Shotty

I know that Kdub still has to weigh in but I’m never inclined to immediately lynch a claimed Vig with no counterclaim. I will not support a lynch on Shotty today unless conflicting evidence ( a Track claim of Shotty to a player other than Neto, for example) appears. Furthermore I think Shotty’s claim is easily testable by Furc if his power is as he also claimed. Althought it is Mod-WIFOM I don’t think there is potentially as Serial Killer in the game so Shotty is either Vig or Mafia fake-claiming Vig. Have questions about this? Read your role PM win conditions carefully and think about it before asking me. Both have played scummy so I suggest the following plan.

1. Furc commit to using his Ability Cop on Shotty. As Mafia kills are Faction abilities and not role abilities Furc should be able to confirm the exact details of Shotty’s Vig role. If Shotty comes up as anything other than Vig we can lynch him Day 3.
2. Shotty agree not to Vig Furc. If Furc meets death with a flavour of “Shot” Shotty can be lynched immediately Day 3.
3. If a Tracker is in the game they can track Shotty if they wish to confirm any kill he might make as a Vig.
4. If a Watcher is in the game they can watch Shotty if they wish to confirm that Furc uses his Ability Cop role on him. In addition it will indicate the potential identity of anyone who kills Shotty (as should be expected if he is fake-claiming Vig) or the identity of the Role-blocker that Robocopter has identified if they choose to block Shotty.

I like this plan in that it only locks in one action from a player (Furc) and allows others to operate as they see fit in the bounds of the plan. Additionally if Shotty and Furc are both Town roles as they have claimed it makes the life of the Mafia potentially difficult as silencing / blocking them greatly restricts their options at Night. It’s by far not perfect for reasons I’m not going to elaborate on but I’d like to hear any objections or obvious holes I am missing.

Honestly I'd rather Shotty not claim whether he is 1-shot, Odd Night or Unlimited Vig as giving that information away potential renders the plan moot.

I’m going to have to re-read but at this point I’m leaning looking in depth at bv310 and muffin for today.

It never even crossed my mind that Neto's death could've been caused by a vig. Except for the odd interaction with Shotty (which townShotty, incidentally, shouldn't have counted as a scumtell against Neto), Neto's play was good.

I’ll disagree with you regarding Neto’s play. He was much less impressive than I expected based on other threads I have seen and his general reputation. I don't see it as out of the ordinary that Shotty may have Vigged Neto.

I just looked back at the millar wagon, and shotty was on it, so I'm not as adamant about my vote on him anymore. Unless millar was a serial killer, or town, I'm fairly certain shotty isn't mafia unless he is one to stab someone in the back. Does anyone have any information as to whether shotty is capable of this? It seems dumb to me to shoot yourself in the foot like that.

Regardless of what Meta says Shotty only appeared on the wagon late in the day when his own lynch was a possibility. Asserting that makes him any sort of clear is just plain poor logic.

Did Reaper ever say that the scum had pregame talk? I devised a plan to use an ability through another ability to become a Confirmed Townie? Listen, let me explain this to you. I was at L-1. Scum tried to Quicklynch me through the means of an ability. I lived due to my ability. If I had the ability to give other players an increased lynch threshold as scum, then it would be unbalanced. If I could teach my scumbuddies how to get an increased lynch threshold, it would be easier for the scum and harder for the town. I am confirmed, LIVE WITH IT. I'm not basking in my confirmedness.

You are hardly confirmed. Are you likely Town? Yes, but certainly not confirmed.
Want reasons?

1. The only people who know when scum are able to talk are scum. Hell it’s possible they could have an Encryptor type role and be Day-chatting. That you dismiss the possibility of coordination without considering possibilities is a bad argument.
2. The WIFOM of whether you would gambit to use a fellow scum’s ability in conjunction with your own to confirm you is just simply that -- WIFOM.
3. Making an argument about a power unproven to exist (you teaching others a higher threshold for a Day) is poor logic. You as scum could certainly fake-claim it in conjunction with your increased lynch threshold. Until you demonstrate that you actually can up the threshold of others don’t put it forth as irrevocable proof of your innocence.
4. You’ve claimed at least three different powers – passive lynch threshold increase, lynch threshold for others at night and whatever power you claimed you wanted to use on Furc but was blocked. That’s more distinct powers than I have and somewhat raises a red flag with me.

[MagnaofIllusion]

HAHA!

Ongoing game, but

[redacted - I read it already, so it's served it's purpose. Haha!]

<3 Charlie

[MagnaofIllusion]

As Mafia kills are Faction abilities and not role abilities Furc should be able to confirm the exact details of Shotty’s Vig role.

Do we know this, or are you assuming?

It is an assumption but a reasonable one in my opinion.

[MagnaofIllusion]

ADDENDUM TO THE PROPOSED PLAN –

If we go ahead with the plan as outlined I would also request that after Night 2 Shotty and Furc (if they both live) be the first to post content with the following information –

1. Shotty claims his target or confirms any other pertinent information (being RB, etc)
2. Furc details the specifics of Shotty’s power or confirms any other pertinent information.

Please consider this information when assessing the plan I presented at 896.

Lets lynch this scumbag.

Do you object to my plan? If not lynching Furc is not a good option for today. If so then explain why. You are making this just as personal as Furc. Cut it the hell out now!

But there might be a few more holes upon reflection (e.g. what if Fur's ability is "stolen" again)?

The plan is certainly not a fully functioning flow-chart but problems like this can certainly be handled. If “stealing” abilities is a true power and Furc claims it happened again we have multiple ways to deal with that claim.

1. If it happened to anyone else the same Night they can count-claim his being “stolen”.
2. The owner of said “ability” can confirm that they used on Furc twice.

There are certainly complications even with the two options I mentioned but in any case it would provide us with more information to analyze and assess.

If we have no watcher/tracker types (maybe they're dead or something) we have no way of confirming this beyond taking Furc's word for it. But it's a better plan than I've got, so I will support this.

Town has got to have some sort of information roles, especially in a partial reveal on death game. If you are of the belief the Furc isn’t Town as an Ability Cop (and if he is scum this logic applies regardless of whether he has that skill or not) then somewhere out there someone else can assist us in some way.

Shotty's play is ever increasingly town to me. Couple that with the fact that many good town-aligned power roles are relatively inactive and hush-hush on day one, and i'm ready to straight up believe his claim. How about, instead of me checking him, I check robo since he has claimed abilities, too? Shotty can call his shot on someone, and then we get a lot more information than before (a dead player, confirmation that I am a rolecop [assuming i'm not a scumbuddy with robo, in which case, I would have fucking replaced out], robocopter's powers, and the knowledge that shotty can kill). I like that idea a lot more than the one proposed by MoI, but I guess i'm just seeking a reason to lynch robo because I don't like him

No, if we let you live you are not going to be checking Robo. Here’s the deal Furc – I have some serious doubts about your alignment. The amount of points made against you by multiple sources that you have not responded to is staggering. You have zero credibility. If you expect the playerbase to look past your scummy play you need to be willing to commit to a plan that Town agrees to (assuming that we come to a concensus). Points you make here that make you look even worse -

1. Shotty calling his shot doesn’t increase information for Town. It gives scum (if he isn’t one of them) a heads up for certain whether they should interfere for the good of their lives or not.
2. The confirmation that you are an ability-cop is only useful at this point if we can use it to confirm Shotty’s alignment. Vigs are the only role (that appears on a regular basis, anyway) that can confirm they are not Mafia as scum don’t (99.9999% of the time) get additional kills beyond their factional kill.
3. Stating you would have replaced out if you were scum Robo is just plain stupid conjecture.
4. You go on to make the point in the next paragraph that you I will not know 100% whether someone is “on our side” (which is shorthand for Town I assume). Why should you scan Robo on a personal grudge if it will not prove anything.

You either need to get with the program (again assuming everyone else is onboard) or you are likely to be a strong candidate for the rope today. Make your choice.

What do you all think about an Ythan lynch? His negativity is really detracting our play as a town

At this point I haven’t seen anything I consider out of the ordinary for Ythan. I’ve seen his argumentative style up close and personal in Weeds Mafia. If someone wants to make a case based on voting / not voting / other information I’ll entertain it as I do all information. Saying he is detracting ‘our play’ as town isn’t a valid lynch reason. Especially since he isn’t ‘detracting’ my play.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I am

so

not hammering.

Points to Post 911 right at the top.

Answer the questions I have asked you. Avoiding them increases my feeling of unease with you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Objecting to your plan? Yes. I want Furc to die.

You stupidity is noted.

VOTE: Robocopter

[MagnaofIllusion]

At this point I have no intentions of hammering. Robo has stated he will not. That leaves kdub and Iec I think.

[MagnaofIllusion]

EBWOP - That should be Shotty and Iec, not kdub. He's already voting for you.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Wow, YThan is like

so

town and Furc is like

so

obv scum. Can't we lynch scumfurc instead of townythan?

You lost all credibility to your reads when you went on a Day 1 roll indicating you would NOT vote for Miller. Sorry but advocating against a lynch likelyscum who many found scummy tends to do that in light of the flip.

If you've something of worth to say please do so. Otherwise stop spamming the thread with one-offs.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Robo I think you're scum.

Follow-up on this thought Ythan. Re-read his opening post from today. He lambasts Furc for hammering millar, who the consensus opinion says is scum with his Kerrigan flip. Read the rest of his posts. The more I see crap postings from him and his absolute tunneling on Furc (who is horrible but due to my plan I don’t want to see lynched today) without any other sorts of input the more I think he’s scum. And it is possible he ran a gambit with millar to 'confirm' himself.

I don't think that really fits with the flavour. How does Peach fit the "brave" part? All she does is get kidnapped by a lizard.

I suppose she could be the Beautiful, but Peach is sort of a lame choice given all the other possible characters out there.

My theory that supports his claim – if we are in a Non-VT style game, and I am beginning to think we are, then a Beloved Princess is a sensible counterbalance role to potentially boost the Mafia.

Does anyone have meta on mod-RC minis? Does he give fakeclaims?

This is his only run MS game or mini so I don’t know if any offsite games are going to provide us with anything useful from that standpoint.

[MagnaofIllusion]

We don't lose a day if the Beloved Princess is NK'ed. But, they do say that the BP should claim ASAP in the beginning.

Who is this they you are talking about? The Wiki? If so stop posting Wiki information as if it's the Bible. A Beloved claiming immediately is just the same as a Miller -- there is debate about the wisdom in either case.

I suggest everyone take a good look at Robocopter while mulling over Ythan's claim.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Regarding kdub’s plan –

I’m not thrilled with it as I think the direct action by Furc on Shotty in my plan allows for a more definitive information stream. That said I will not throw a fit if the majority think it is a better way to go. I don't think that Shotty should be restricted from firing if he chooses, so long as he agrees not to hit Furc.

I think that your poor attempt to do so is. With every post your push against me gets less and less townish.

My question to you in regards to your back and forth with Muffin is this –

If you believe millar was scum do you think Muffin would bus as hard as happened Day 1 with millar? He put together a rather large post attacking him and was on millar’s ass all Day.

@bv310

– We aren’t lyncing Furc today. Stop making pointless votes. We understand his play has been scummy but his ability to potentially confirm another player’s identity is too powerful to waste. Given he has stated it is 2-shot if we still feel he is the best lynch we can do so tomorrow.

It takes a lot of suspension of disbelief for me to see Robo as scum. We know he wasn't Kerrigan (unless there are two Kerrigans and millar was town, but that's loony), so he would've had to have planned that pre-game. If I had that ability as scum, I wouldn've used to to quicklynch town as soon as possible, ideally after a town-on-town interaction. Robo is probably town.

The gaping black hole in your logic is the assumption that scum don’t have Day-talk. With that possibility your chain of logic that Robo couldn’t have easily planned the execution with millar is broken.

And the assertion of what you would have done with the power is WIFOM. You know better Iec, so cut it out.

Is there an upperbound on the number of scum left in the game? Can we safely assume there are no more than 3 scum left (either 3 scum or 2 scum + 1sk as a maximum)?

I find it highly unlikely there is 3 total Non-Town left. In a Mini a 4 person Mafia team is a very unbalanced set-up and as such can be thrown out for consideration.

If Shotty is an SK (which I don’t believe to be the case based on Role-PM based outguess the mod logic) then there is a possibility of a 2 Mafia – 1 Serial Killer set-up. There is also the possibility of a 1 Mafia – 1 Serial Killer set-up left.

This all assumes that millar was Mafia.

i took a good look at you while mulling over ythan's claim, and i have to say that if you are scum you have nuts.

It’s statements like this that make everyone think you are scum. This statement says NOTHING about what you believe regarding whether I am Town or Scum. You aren’t taking a position but are just staying active without adding content.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I've got a rather large info dump to share but I want to see some information first -

1. Shotty - Please indicate your targets Night 3 and Night 4.
2. Furc - Please indicate your targets Night 3 and Night 4 (if both are valid). Please disclose the exact name of your ability (ie what you PM to RC) and any results.
3. Muffin - Please indicate your targets Night 3 and Night 4 and any results you got.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I've got a rather large info dump to share but I want to see some information first -

1. Shotty - Please indicate your targets Night 3 and Night 4.
2. Furc - Please indicate your targets Night 3 and Night 4 (if both are valid). Please disclose the exact name of your ability (ie what you PM to RC) and any results.
3. Muffin - Please indicate your targets Night 3 and Night 4 and any results you got.

Yeah. all these request should be for Nights 2 and 3.

Doh.

[MagnaofIllusion]

After being warned the first time you had to come in again?

I think some harsh treatment is in order. But I'm also a vindictive bastard so let's see what RC and SK think.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Preemptive

prod request @ Furco

QFT

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yeah yeah I’ve got the mass prod ….

On with the Massive Info Dump –

First I’m going to make my claim. Not standard protocol but I think it is important for the circumstances.

I am Rikku from FFX. I’m a Thief. It's understood but my alignment is stated as Good in green in my PM, as is my job name. My main ability ( I have two which seems pretty standard ) is to Steal. It is a two shot ability. It allows me to steal the main ability from a player at Night (if they have one) and immediately use it on another player.

Actions –

Night 1 – I stole Furcolow’s ability. I wanted to confirm his claim that he was an Ability cop. His powers derive from a pair Binoculars that allow him to

Observe

someone and determine their powers. I used this power to observe Neto Night 1. Neto’s main ability was Grapple Beam. This ability could be used on a player. That player would be immune from ANY night abilities that targeted them directly. Any abilities used on Neto during the Night would also be used on the target. Neto targeted Spyrex Night 1. Thus I also got to observe Spyrex’s power. Spyrex could ‘Hack the System’ to determine the number of Evil players on a lynch.

Night 2 – I stole Muffin’s ability. Given his normal Cop claim I wanted to confirm he wasn’t lying as it makes ZERO sense for a Mafian to have that power. Muffin’s main powers stem from a Intention Detection Device [IDD] that can be used to determine if someone has ‘Malicous Intent’. This confirm’s Muffin’s claim. I used the device on bv310. He’s a massive lurker who would be an easy target for scum if innocent. His result from the IDD came back green, saying that no harmful intent was found.

Night 3 – I used my secondary ability which I’m not going to out currently.

Reasoning –

The whole crux of my Day 2 suggested play and plan (calling for the Vig to out-themselves, suggesting that Furc scan Shotty) was predicated on the inside information that I had that no-one else did – Spyrex could NOT have been Nightkilled directly. SaintK confirmed that Spyrex died because Neto was shot. Look carefully again at Spyrex’s death flavor. It says destroyed (which is the generic flavor) because he died due to Shotty shooting Neto.

I asked for the Vig claim as a potential gambit. I was curious if anyone would claim responsibility for Neto’s death given that there were two deaths and Spyrex’s ‘seemed’ like the Mafia kill. Shotty’s claim put him high on my radar Day 2. Getting a Mafian ‘cleared’ as Vig seemed like a chance the Mafia might take.

My plan for Night 2 (before Muffin’s guilty claim on Robo) was to steal Shotty’s main ability while having Furc observe him. My thinking was to clear or condemn them both in one Night. I knew Furc’s exact ability from Night 1 so I would have pressed him to stated he was ‘Observing’. I would also know what Shotty’s main ability, if any, was. As stated before I doubt (but have no confirmation) that a Factional ability could be stolen by me. Thus I would be able to confirm that Shotty was a Vig or a liar. Knowing Shotty’s main ability would also be able for me to determine whether Furc would lie regarding what he saw as Shotty’s ability. This is why I felt my plan provided ‘more information’. None of you could know that for it to work, of course.

Muffin’s claim shot my plan straight to hell. I changed gears because I doubted that my plan would be followed since Kdub had suggested an alternate version. Also I was quite certain that Muffin, if being truthful, would be killed N2. If he was lying my theft would prove that he was scum and I would have a confirmed target to lynch the next day.

Upshot / Things on my Mind –

Muffin is confirmed Town in my mind. It makes no sense for scum to have an regular Cop ability and this isn’t a Bastard game. His sanity may be in question but I would wager large amounts of money he isn’t scum. The sanity question also might indicate why he wasn’t killed if he did finger Robo incorrectly.

Bv310 is 95% cleared in my eyes. My only doubts revolve around the lingering question of Muffin’s sanity.

The combination of Muffin and Robo both describing being role-blocked in a sensual manner confirms that there is likely a scum role-blocker out there. Muffin is confirmed Town to me so I don’t see him making it up. It also make’s Robo’s alignment more likely to Town after the fact. Furc’s claim of being blocked N2 may or may not make him more likely to be Town.

Muffin’s confirmed normal Cop makes me more inclined to think the Furc is more likely to be scum. I doubt you would have multiple types of Cops on the same side in a Mini-game. I also have lingering concerns about his hammer of millar. If millar's ability was one-time use ability then it makes significant more sense for millar to be bussed to retain Muffin's ability.

I’m also leaning to Shotty being more likely scum based on my thought process above and the fact that we have only had 1 direct kill a Night, and no kill on Night 3. It makes zero sense for the Mafia to no-kill when they had back to back nights. And I completely doubt that there are multiple Town protective roles. I have some reasons that sway me away from this but I need some more information before I settle my opinion.

I’m mulling over the benefits of a Mass-claim at this point. I’m leaning against it since I doubt we are in MYLO. I’m also mulling over whether a selective claim (Doc or role-blocker) might be beneficial. I have some information outstanding that I need to see before I want to propose either.

I think looking through Night flavour might yield some information (along the lines of hearing noises). I heard someone outside bv310’s room during my process of using the IDD to scan him. I also have some idea why someone was sleeping in Shotty’s doorway Night 2.

Responses to posts in the thread / questions –

@Muffin

–

1. Can you think of any reason why your ability would fail or logically you wouldn’t use the IDD when you scanned Robo?
2. Is your 'hiding in the closet' a function of an alternate ability of yours?

@Shotty

–

1. Why did you attempt to kill Muffin, who was a claimed Cop, Night 2 when the potential flaw in his scans was not yet known?
2. Are you stating you don’t have a secondary ability when you say you did nothing N3?

@Furc

– Who did you target on N2 when you were blocked?

vote: MoI I see no difference between this game and the game I played with you as scum, so you are probably scum

Seriously you are an idiot. You see no differences? Like the fact that when Scum in Harry Potter I argued against a Beloved Princess claim and voted to lynch FG while here I didn’t argue against Ythan’s claim and never voted for him?

Seriously go sit in the corner. Sadly the more I see of you horrific town play (in Harry Potter and other threads) the more I am wonder if you are just once again Town who plays in a completely useless way here.

My vote today will probably first go to Furc or Shotty depending on what they have to say and some other information outstanding I am waiting on.

MOD – I’ll be V/LA from 4pm EDT today until Monday morning for the usual weekend.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm going to chime in here and suggest that the flavor involved in my thefts is just flavor, as RC just said.

I think it is just a narrative justification for my ability to 'Steal' other's abilities. Unless it was tied to an item it wouldn't make sense. My own ability isn't linked to an item in my Role PM.

@Muffin

- Look closely at your PM. Is it outright stated you were wrong or is it possibly just flavor if some sort?

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, I'm a little confused about your Neto claim. If Neto protected SX, why did he die N1?

Here's how Neto's power was presented to me.

The Grapple Beam pulls the target closer to Neto. It prevents actions from directly affecting the target (Spyrex). However, because the target is nearer to Neto any action that affected Neto also affects the target (Spyrex). So when Shotty used a Nightkill on Neto it also affected Spyrex. Thus Spyrex died.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hmm. That fits if "destroyed" is a generic death flavor. It creates a little bit of a mystery with regard to the D1 mafia kill itself, though. We'd have to believe that scum redundantly targeted SX, or that a separate protector stopped the scumkill.

Or that Shotty is Mafia that went for the 'cleared by the non-Mafia kill' gambit I threw down. Honestly that was my hope when I was calling for the Vig to claim Neto's kill. Given what I knew at the time it was within reason that my pushing for Neto being the Vig kill would embolden scum to fake claim Vig if that was the actual Mafia kill. With Spyrex being an obvious target I couldn't be certain but was willing to see where things fell.

Will have more time Monday to process thoughts regarding Role-blocking.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I figure this is worth claiming because MoI is banking on no other protective role being present, and he is incorrect. Also, the fact that two protective roles exist makes it somewhat less likely that there is only one kill in play.

Let’s discuss this a little bit further.

1. Your claim reads like a JOAT not a full-protective role. Given we only know your targets I am speculating here but I don’t see how a JOAT would invalidate the theory of a 1 Mafia, 1 full protective role set-up.
2. Is the other protective role you are speaking of Neto?

Waiting for MoI to come back.

Why?

I feel that if anything, his claim is fake, and he is mafia. I disagree with you. You are just trying to defend him.

In 1116 you quote a full post by Kdub that directly mentions three living players. Who is Kdub defending? Do you feel Kdub’s defense is scummy?

i get policy lynched in a lot of the games i'm in, even once in mylo or w/e

PRO TIP – you getting lynched is not a policy lynch. A policy lynch is one made solely on past performance. You get lynched because you play in a scummy way. Stop crying policy lynch when players vote for you. You look like a child when you do so.

I am leaning towards muffin, to be honest.

Of being Mafia?

Let me see – I’m scum, you suggest bv310 is scum for potentially leading a lynch, and god knows why you suspect Muffin for being Mafia.

When you can provide solid reasons and motivations for all these seemingly random suspicions let us know. Otherwise we are going to assume you are either a sloppy scum looking to find whatever mislynch he can or a VI.

SK. I doubt Mafia would try to get themselves confirmed as Vig in the way Shotty did.

I disagree strongly with this statement for the following reasons –

1. All town players look at your win condition. Mine references Evil (in red) that must be destroyed. Not that I win when all threats to Good (in green) are eliminated. This is why I'm leaning towards no SK in the game.
2. Day 2 is the perfect time for a Mafian to claim the Neto kill as a Vig. It was the sole reason I floated the idea. I knew Spyrex wasn’t a direct Mafia kill. If Shotty is Mafia who made the kill then claiming he Vigged Neto prevents a Track / Watch result from screwing him. He could then claim limited shot and have his partner(s) make future kills.

@Shotty –

1. Why did you attempt to kill Muffin, who was a claimed Cop, Night 2 when the potential flaw in his scans was not yet known?
2. Are you stating you don’t have a secondary ability when you say you did nothing N3?

Monday is here Shotty – I haven’t forgotten these questions.

@Furc – Who did you target on N2 when you were blocked?

Furc you never answered this. Hop to it.

Things I Have Been Thinking About –

Before we go any further anyone who has been Roleblocked via being visited by a randy little slut at Night should claim so ASAP.

My result on bv310, if my use of Muffin’s ability includes his sanity, means Muffin can only be Sane or Insane. He can’t be Paranoid or Naïve. This of course presumes that RC isn’t jerking us around with % abilities or varying sanity.

Shotty’s claim of having taken a shot at Muffin isn’t adding up. Muffin in 1095 indicates that he doesn’t have a Bulletproof / Hider style ability to prevent a kill. Iec has not claimed a defense of Muffin N2. No other Doc claims have suggested any reason for Muffin not to have died N2.

Since I don’t believe Muffin can be scum and the facts aren’t adding up –

VOTE: Shotty.

[MagnaofIllusion]

4. You said you were going to elaborate on roleblocker possibilities after you got back, so I was waiting for whatever it was you were going to give us before I speculated any further.

All I have on that realm is speculation myself, so waiting around for me isn’t the best option IMO. That said I think everyone may have missed my request for my last post.

Before we go any further anyone who has been Roleblocked via being visited by a randy little slut at Night should claim so ASAP.

That said baring some further consideration I’m going back to the idea that a Mass-Claim of role Names at this point is warranted. Will elaborate if necessary.

For discussion -

I would suggest the following order -

Iec
Kdub
bv310

6. I thought Shotty claimed RB'd? It's a funny target for a vig, anyway, though.

Not that I can see in Shotty’s (limited) ISO. If you can see a RB claim please point it out to me.

Kdub makes me uncomfortable given the flips so far, but I am receptive to a Shotty lynch.

This sort of increadibly soft suspicion doesn’t sit well with me. I’d like to see you a list of concrete opinions on who is scum out of you ASAP Iec.

Magna:
Proven ability does not equal proven alignment, but I think an investigative role like the one Furcolow is claiming is more likely to be town. In the event that Furcolow is scum, we can ask him to share his results so that the town knows who he's been targeting and what results he's been getting. He can't really lie unless he fakes a result on one of his partners, but that has its own risks.

In light of what has transpired I’d like for you to revisit this post from Day 1. Do you still think Furc is more likely to be Town?

@ kdub you sound squirmy to me
@ muffin what did you do the last 2 nights?

Saying someone sounds squirmy is not scum-hunting.
Pay attention … Muffin already answered that here .

[MagnaofIllusion]

Furc just f'in replace out if you are Town

Muffin's sanity was clearly discussed earlier. You aren't paying attention to the game. Give the slot to someone who will actually play effectively.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Oh Shotty come out come out wherever you are ...

[MagnaofIllusion]

When you say your sanity is in question, what do you mean? Did MoI come up as scum to your rolecheck?

Stop asking questions. The answers are plainly evident in the post you quoted. The MOD told Muffin he was wrong about Robocopter. Thus Muffin feels his alignment is in question.

And he never got confirmation of my alignment because I used his ability N2 and he was role-blocked N3.

of course you want me to replace out, because i'm indicating that your ability claims show that you are fakeclaiming and are mafia. i'm staying, and my vote is staying.

I want you to replace because you are the perfect example of a Village Idiot. I really am not worried about your vote because quite frankly I don’t think you could piece together a logical, cogent argument to save your life.

I don't personally recall Kdub pushing for millar's lynch very strongly. Will need to reread early Kdub in a bit to determine whether I'm OK with his version of events.

Having re-read Day 1 I think Kdub’s push on millar is much more credible than Furc’s. Go back and see what you think. Furc’s looks very much like bussing when it came down to himself or millar.

So to answer your question, I think he is less likely to be town that I thought he was yesterday, but not because of his claimed ability.

My thinking runs contrary – I think the nature of his claim (Ability Cop), confirmed or not, looks much more like a Scum ability when Muffin’s ability as a normal cop is factored in.

Not sure what the benefit of a name claim would be unless there is reason to believe scum don't have safeclaims. I wouldn't be opposed if you had some reason to think otherwise though, and you/Muffin should definitely choose the claim order if that's what we do.

Well for the reasons I didn’t want to directly bring up but others did (thanks bv ) I doubt there are scum fake-claims.

There is another reason why I’d like everyone on record to claim.

I’m suggesting claiming only the following information –

Character name and Class. The class should be in green if you are Town.

As stated earlier my Name is Rikku and my class is Thief.

Claims so far –

MoI – Rikku, Thief
Furc – Tanya Adams, ?
Muffin – Laura Croft, ?
Shotty - ?, ? (Assume Vig but want confirmation)
Iec - ?, ?
Kdub - ?, ?
Bv310 - ?,?

I would suggest the following order for claiming both bits of info –

Shotty
Furc
Iec
Kdub
Bv310
Muffin.

If Muffin (or anyone else) objects speak now.

Otherwise I suggest Shotty make his claim whenever he decides to come back and answer the questions put to him.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yes, I know my name is at the end but I've already given my class name so I didn't think it was a problem to jump the queue if you will.

I have no issues with this just wanted to place you, who I think is Confirmed Town, at the bottom.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD

– Can you give us an update on the status of Shotty’s prod?

why don't you guys replace out? i'm pretty happy being confirmed town
to me, the people who want me to replace out are likely scum, especially considering that thief claim.

VI ALERT VI ALERT VI ALERT

Sounds of claxons and red spinning lights here …

You are so far from confirmed Town it’s not even funny. The only reason I’m not voting for you right now is that I know you are an Ability Cop and thus likely not the role-blocker. The fact that you are an Ability Cop in a game with a Regular Cop makes me think you are very likely scum. Especially considering my role which somewhat duplicates yours.

Pro-Tip – Before you makes stupid comments do your homework. The Wiki page on Thief here clearly shows it is generally a Pro-Town role.

i feel like my act of nabbing the only scum so far implies im town

The lulz they are in full force. You had little to do with catching millar. You briefly voted for him for ‘bad grammer’ in your tour-de-force of voting almost everyone Day 1. Heck, you even Confirm voted Neto at one point. Heck at ISO 41 you suggested lynching Robo to check millar’s alignment. How stupid is that?

And how do you know that Robo wasn't scum? Muffin's flavor text could be misleading him. Chun-Li certainly could be brainwashed by Bison or possessed by the spirit of Akuma. The Day 2 lynch flavor also implies this. Looks like this might be an inadvertant scum-slip.

In other news,

I have thoughts regarding our Role-blocker that I will share once the Mass-claim is complete.

[MagnaofIllusion]

He's also an ability Cop that has yet to (publicly) produce results.

Do those sorts of things happen to Chun Li in the flavor? I dunno much about SF lore.

On that end I find it somewhat interesting that he claimed 2-shot while the Full Cop has not claimed any restrictions. But given my ability to Steal was 2-shot it's not completely out of the realm of possibilities.

It really depends on what you mean by SF lore. The video game lore? OVA / Movie lore? Comic lore? I can't say that I can specifically point to one particular area without research but I do remember vaguely of Chun-Li being brainwashed by Bison. I'll have to do some digging.

That, however, isn't of prime concern at the moment as it is mainly flavor based. And I could counter with RC's post where he talks about the Princess'es funeral and that 'some of you' were crying crocodile tears. The some of you indicates more than one baddie left.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Your "Bison brainwash" seemed really specific and appeared to imply knowledge of the flavor I didn't have.

I took five minutes to look up Chun-Li here. This is a copy paste from the Animation section -

In the Japanese anime series Street Fighter II V, Chun-Li appears as the spirited tour guide to Ken and Ryu. Her character in this adaptation is a far cry from The world's strongest woman, since she's mostly a Kung-Fu student under the guidance of her father, the highest-ranked police chief in Hong Kong. Chun-Li plays a sizeable role in the finale

when she is brainwashed by Bison's psycho power.

Noteworthy to mention is Ken's growing feelings for her, as he takes her on a shopping spree and even buys her an engagement ring in the first part of the series. In the Animaze dub, she is voiced by Lia Seargent, while in the ADV Films dub she is played by Junie Hoang and later on by Tamara Lo.

Emphasis added. This is what I was recalling.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MOD

- Shotty hasn't posted on site in over a Week. The game really can't proceed without input from his slot. What is the status of his prod / replacement?

Also, I'll be V/LA from today at 4pm EDT until Monday morning for my usual family weekend duties.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@ Shotty's rep -- claim in your first post with all actions, your role, your class, etc.

QFT. Also once Shotty’s replacement posts please keep the process moving. We don’t have unlimited time.

@Shotty’s replacement

– Please also confirm that your role only has 1 ability (which Shotty indicated in his Night action run-down but never confirmed).

Replacing Shotty is going to suck because the replacement won't be able to tell us Shotty's motivations for his night actions.

This is true, but actions and role information would be better than nothing.

[MagnaofIllusion]

So, when we lynch him, and he's red, what will you have to say then?

I love the faux braverly Furc. You almost sound like someone with actual game ability.

A large post will be coming in the next 2 hours or so but suffice it to say I'm not getting lynched. Scum, namely Kast, will be today's lynch.

[MagnaofIllusion]

General responses to Kast and Analysis of his Post –

Kast attempting to paint Neto as a killed Mafia is classic scummy play in a no-reveal environment. Let’s look at the components of his attacks –

D1 case on Robo was complete BS. Major +scum on Netopalis for excessive misrepresentation. In general, the irrational but very opportunistic attacks on Robo sound like scum looking for an excuse. This fits well if he expected his buddy to deal a finishing blow and end the day early.

Robo’s paranoid and anti-Town response to Neto’s RQS questions warranted the pressure he received.

Please show how your slot’s vote (2nd) or Furc’s vote (4th) on Robo were anything but opportunistic. Because selectively attempting to smear Neto in the manner you are doing while ignoring Furc and Shotty’s reasoning is scumtastic.

For your reminder - here are the ‘support’ for those votes

Guilty people are paranoid, innocents have nothing to fear.

Unvote vote robo

this game is getting on my nerves
i attribute it to robocopter, who always manages to get on my nerves
i am wanting a more fun game
##vote robocopter87

I await how you explain these as less opportunistic and more well reasoned that Neto’s vote.

Disagree with the vote analysis. Timing indicates Millar was waiting for someone to place an "effective" L-1 so he could "hammer". If there's a buddy helping him, Neto's vote is the most probable one.

If you can’t provide any reasons why Neto’s vote is the ‘most probable’ one then this is pure scumtastic conjecture. Your slot’s vote (2nd) or Furc’s vote (4th) can just as easily be scum assist votes.

Also, if you reasoning regarding why Neto was millar’s buddy involves the tired 3rd on the wagon Wiki-tell please don’t bother.

@Neto-
I bet you're hating having Millar as a buddy.

Look it’s Stretch Armstrong. This is so weak no other comment needs to be made.

Preview Edit:
I thought Muffin was the last scum for most of my re-read. If MoI is scum, Muffin is almost definitely town.

If, as you assert, RC is infallible regarding flavor (which you do while attacking me on the Grapple Beam) please share your insights on the following MOD text -

But some of you were shedding crocodile tears.

This clearly indicates that there are more than 1 scum alive. Do you believe there was a 4-man original scum team in a no-reveal game? Do you believe there is a Serial Killer?

@N2,N3,D4-
No deaths is great, except that Muffin should have died.

Again, jailkeeper possibility rises, but the flavor claim that it was passively self hiding (as opposed to someone pushing her into a closet) makes it odd.

Nice pointless first statement. Of course the lack of deaths N3 is nice. I think you would be too much a veteran to pull a variation on the tired ‘Congratulate the Doc’ tell. And there was of course a death N2 – Ythan.

Another possibility regarding Muffin’s survival, of course, is that you are scum. That also quite handily explains why Muffin didn’t die. You partner was busy killing Ythan.

More interesting comments regarding bussing / distancing from Kast –

Furcolow's hammer, despite not waiting for a claim, is indicative of town if anything.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!! Muffin's early vote and later justification of that vote sounds like a bus. The confidence in his attacks immediately after the ZR is striking and (imo) telling.[//quote]

Compare these two statements. Muffin make consistent attacks on millar during the Day. Furc’s hammer came as multiple other players (Kdub and Ythan) had expressed previous interest in voting, and thus hammering, millar. This argument is quite frankly ludicrous.

If anyone was bussing it was Furc.

Scumtastic logic from Kast regarding myself –

Based on MoI's claim about Grapple Beam providing targetting immunity and copying effects to the target, BUT having the result that Neto and Spyrex died in DIFFERENT manners, conclusion is that MoI is lying about the Grapple Beam.

Of course the fact that Spyrex died with the generic death flavor is the part you kindly leave out. Not some other specifically identifiable flavor (like ripped to shreds) but the generic flavor used for lynches. The Mafia kill on Neto also affected Spyrex. Spyrex was not directly shot but died because he was affected. The use of the generic kill language (DESTROYED) makes perfect logical sense in this regard. Your assessment that the presentation of kills is therefore wrong is once again flawed logic.

– MagnaofIllusion: The claim about the Grapple Beam has a hole. There's no way RC would make a kill flavor mistake; if you've played with him or even just looking at the rich flavor in this game, it's

clear that an ability as MoI claimed would copy the kill AND it's kill flavor.

As shown above it makes perfect logical sense that Spyrex would have generic death flavor. Your attempt to assert how game mechanics work is again scumtastic. How is it 'clear' as to how the MOD would present information?

For that matter, Grapple Beam sounds like a scum ability; he can protect a suspected buddy from investigations (and anything else) or make himself investigate as innocent (as his target).

1. The Grapple Beam prevents the Target from being directly targeted.
2. The Grapple Beam causes any ability that affects the User to also affect the Target.

Your assessment that it would prevent Neto from investigating as scum if he used it on an innocent is horribly scumtastic. If Neto used Grapple Beam on an Innocent and he was scanned the Investigative role would get a scan both on Neto and the target. Nowhere in my information dump did I claim it replaced the effects on Neto with the effects on the target. So all you are doing here is attempting to further smear Neto after the fact.

And please explain why a modified Hider mechanic sounds like a scum ability in light of the fact that you butchered the mechanics as shown above.

From redundancy perspective, Fur is essentially a confirmed role cop, MoI's claim is essentially a role cop + blocker + gets to use the person's ability. Balance issues much?

The error in logic here is that Kast is approaching Furc as confirmed Town. It’s not a balance issue if, as I’ve said before, Furc is Scum Role-cop.

This is a bit hard to believe. If true, then you had no reason not to get suspected mafia-Shotty lynched. Conversely, if you are mafia this makes perfect sense as you identify the vig, setup for a future mislynch, and find out who the vig suspects so you know whether you have to worry about him or not.

And if true my plan Day 2 was exactly that … the next step in getting more information on a suspected Mafian. Are you suggesting that I should have immediately tried to lynch Shotty without using the tools at my disposal to attempt to also investigate Furc?

The rest of your statement is simply WIFOM. Nice attempt to cloud the waters.

Confirm Vote – Kast

[MagnaofIllusion]

EBWOP for readability

General responses to Kast and Analysis of his Post –

Kast attempting to paint Neto as a killed Mafia is classic scummy play in a no-reveal environment. Let’s look at the components of his attacks –

D1 case on Robo was complete BS. Major +scum on Netopalis for excessive misrepresentation. In general, the irrational but very opportunistic attacks on Robo sound like scum looking for an excuse. This fits well if he expected his buddy to deal a finishing blow and end the day early.

Robo’s paranoid and anti-Town response to Neto’s RQS questions warranted the pressure he received.

Please show how your slot’s vote (2nd) or Furc’s vote (4th) on Robo were anything but opportunistic. Because selectively attempting to smear Neto in the manner you are doing while ignoring Furc and Shotty’s reasoning is scumtastic.

For your reminder - here are the ‘support’ for those votes

Guilty people are paranoid, innocents have nothing to fear.

Unvote vote robo

this game is getting on my nerves
i attribute it to robocopter, who always manages to get on my nerves
i am wanting a more fun game
##vote robocopter87

I await how you explain these as less opportunistic and more well reasoned that Neto’s vote.

Disagree with the vote analysis. Timing indicates Millar was waiting for someone to place an "effective" L-1 so he could "hammer". If there's a buddy helping him, Neto's vote is the most probable one.

If you can’t provide any reasons why Neto’s vote is the ‘most probable’ one then this is pure scumtastic conjecture. Your slot’s vote (2nd) or Furc’s vote (4th) can just as easily be scum assist votes.

Also, if you reasoning regarding why Neto was millar’s buddy involves the tired 3rd on the wagon Wiki-tell please don’t bother.

@Neto-
I bet you're hating having Millar as a buddy.

Look it’s Stretch Armstrong. This is so weak no other comment needs to be made.

Preview Edit:
I thought Muffin was the last scum for most of my re-read. If MoI is scum, Muffin is almost definitely town.

If, as you assert, RC is infallible regarding flavor (which you do while attacking me on the Grapple Beam) and that Neto was scum with millar please share your insights on the following MOD text -

But some of you were shedding crocodile tears.

This clearly indicates that there are more than 1 scum alive. Do you believe there was a 4-man original scum team in a no-reveal game? Do you believe there is a Serial Killer?

@N2,N3,D4-
No deaths is great, except that Muffin should have died.

Again, jailkeeper possibility rises, but the flavor claim that it was passively self hiding (as opposed to someone pushing her into a closet) makes it odd.

Nice pointless first statement. Of course the lack of deaths N3 is nice. I think you would be too much a veteran to pull a variation on the tired ‘Congratulate the Doc’ tell. And there was of course a death N2 – Ythan.

Another possibility regarding Muffin’s survival, of course, is that you are scum. That also quite handily explains why Muffin didn’t die. You partner was busy killing Ythan.

More interesting comments regarding bussing / distancing from Kast –

Furcolow's hammer, despite not waiting for a claim, is indicative of town if anything.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!! Muffin's early vote and later justification of that vote sounds like a bus. The confidence in his attacks immediately after the ZR is striking and (imo) telling.

Compare these two statements. Muffin make consistent attacks on millar during the Day. Furc’s hammer came as multiple other players (Kdub and Ythan) had expressed previous interest in voting, and thus hammering, millar. This argument is quite frankly ludicrous.

If anyone was bussing it was Furc.

Scumtastic logic from Kast regarding myself –

Based on MoI's claim about Grapple Beam providing targetting immunity and copying effects to the target, BUT having the result that Neto and Spyrex died in DIFFERENT manners, conclusion is that MoI is lying about the Grapple Beam.

Of course the fact that Spyrex died with the generic death flavor is the part you kindly leave out. Not some other specifically identifiable flavor (like ripped to shreds) but the generic flavor used for lynches. The Mafia kill on Neto also affected Spyrex. Spyrex was not directly shot but died because he was affected. The use of the generic kill language (DESTROYED) makes perfect logical sense in this regard. Your assessment that the presentation of kills is therefore wrong is once again flawed logic.

– MagnaofIllusion: The claim about the Grapple Beam has a hole. There's no way RC would make a kill flavor mistake; if you've played with him or even just looking at the rich flavor in this game, it's clear that an ability as MoI claimed would copy the kill AND it's kill flavor.

As shown above it makes perfect logical sense that Spyrex would have generic death flavor. Your attempt to assert how game mechanics work is again scumtastic. How is it 'clear' as to how the MOD would present information?

For that matter, Grapple Beam sounds like a scum ability; he can protect a suspected buddy from investigations (and anything else) or make himself investigate as innocent (as his target).

1. The Grapple Beam prevents the Target from being directly targeted.
2. The Grapple Beam causes any ability that affects the User to also affect the Target.

Your assessment that it would prevent Neto from investigating as scum if he used it on an innocent is horribly scumtastic. If Neto used Grapple Beam on an Innocent and he was scanned the Investigative role would get a scan both on Neto and the target. Nowhere in my information dump did I claim it replaced the effects on Neto with the effects on the target. So all you are doing here is attempting to further smear Neto after the fact.

And please explain why a modified Hider mechanic sounds like a scum ability in light of the fact that you butchered the mechanics as shown above.

From redundancy perspective, Fur is essentially a confirmed role cop, MoI's claim is essentially a role cop + blocker + gets to use theperson's ability. Balance issues much?

The error in logic here is that Kast is approaching Furc as confirmed Town. It’s not a balance issue if, as I’ve said before, Furc is Scum Role-cop.

This is a bit hard to believe. If true, then you had no reason not to get suspected mafia-Shotty lynched. Conversely, if you are mafia this makes perfect sense as you identify the vig, setup for a future mislynch, and find out who the vig suspects so you know whether you have to worry about him or not.

And if true the plan I suggested Day 2 was exactly that … the next step in getting more information on a suspected Mafian. Are you suggesting that I should have immediately tried to lynch Shotty without using the tools at my disposal to attempt to also investigate Furc?

The rest of your statement is simply WIFOM. Nice attempt to cloud the waters.

Confirm Vote – Kast

[MagnaofIllusion]

In response to your request.

As the different death flavors, I guess you do have a point. Now that I look back at his exact words, Magna described the grapple beam as "Any abilities used on Neto during the Night would also be used on the target". Taken literally, that means that your kill ability would also be used on Spyrex, and thus the kill flavor should also be "shot". I still think his claim is detailed enough that it seems legit, but it's worth asking further questions at least. Magna, any response to Kast's point about the kill flavors?

I think the following highlights my thoughts on the issue –

Of course the fact that Spyrex died with the generic death flavor is the part you kindly leave out. Not some other specifically identifiable flavor (like ripped to shreds) but the generic flavor used for lynches. The Mafia kill on Neto also affected Spyrex. Spyrex was not directly shot but died because he was affected. The use of the generic kill language (DESTROYED) makes perfect logical sense in this regard. Your assessment that the presentation of kills is therefore wrong is once again flawed logic.

I see no inconsistency in my statements and this explanation. The effect of the ability does not automatically mean that the flavor of the ability must be duplicated. Nightkills are the only ability that inherently has any flavor. Keep in mind that I paraphrased the information that Mod provided to me. The phrase “Any ability used on Neto during the Night would also be used on the target” is not a direct quote from the Mod.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'll have some time later to correct Kast's increadibly scummy comments.

But in the meantime look at the content (and I use the term loosely) of his posts.

He's spamming the thread with attacks, game and role speculation, and anything and everything but actual hunting.

The hallmark of desperate scum.

More votes for Obvscum Kast!

[MagnaofIllusion]

This, to me, reads like an appeal to emotion.

Then you have no idea what an Appeal to Emotion is. Not that I’m surprised. Go to the Wiki and do something productive with your time. Like perhaps learning what the phrases you so badly mangle are and how they apply.

Given that rules state this is a Limited/Delayed reveal game and we have already seen that the delayed reveal shows true affiliation, your argument holds no merit. The attempt to lynch me is an obvious attempt to get rid of the vig before we see Neto's flip.

No, it’s an attempt to lynch scum. And let’s actually reference the rules you were so careful not to quote.

This game is limited/delayed reveal.

Character name will be revealed, but you are left to speculate at their alignment, and the true powers they might have possessed

Bolded to show your lack of reading ability. So once again you’ve made another unsupported and incorrect argument.

Explain why you targeted Neto.

Because I wanted to see what his abilities were and assess whether they were likely to indicate a Town role. Because as a logical player he would be a strong Town asset.. Precisely the reason you killed him.

Explain why you chose to steal/block a cop instead of block/confirming someone you claim to strongly believe was scum.

I chose to steal Muffin’s ability for two reasons.

1. To confirm his claim. The chances of an alignment cop being scum in a mini are practically zero.
2. To prevent Scum (aka you and your partner) from killing / roleblocking him and having Town lose a scan.

Neto and Fur have clear differences in playstyle. Neto's votes are inconsistent with his claims to be a logical player and actual play which showed more rational capabilities outside of his single-minded and opportunistic ones.

Typical weak scum play – demonize the dead who can’t fight back.

Neto’s play is so superior to Furc’s in every way this game it’s not funny. Continue to attack Neto and champion our own VI as much as you like. It only shows how weak your opinions are.

It's straight forward vote analysis. Just because you can't understand it doesn't make that a valid dismissal. You can tell us you don't understand how 1 + 1 = 2, but that doesn't make it any less true.

The lulz. You have no clue what vote analysis is. Vote analysis consists of reviewing a string of votes and counts and looking for patterns. What you are doing consists of “Derp he’s scum because I say so.”

To those reading – note that complete weakness of his position that he resorts to attacking my intelligence instead of making a logical, well reasoned post. Just like he was taking Ythan to task for.

Claiming mod flavor indicates number of remaining scum is ridiculous. Kill flavor is a GAME MECHANIC, not meaningless flavor. You are reaching.

DERP. Flavor is flavor. Any attempt to champion certain flavor as important but other flavour as meaningless is just plain sad.

Your claim that "destroyed" is "generic kill flavor" likely betrays inside knowledge on scum kill method. Nothing indicates this anywhere else or in any way. It also goes against your initial claim of abilities being copied on the grapple beam target.

Destroyed is clearly the generic death flavor as shown in the MOD’S PAGE 1 POSTS. Learn to read. I love the unsupportable ‘Black Helicopter’ conspiracy theory you throw in. Lulz he’s Mafiaz becauze he can thinkz for hizself.

Your claiming that the grapple beam doesn't actually copy abilities and you were just paraphrasing is an obvious revision after having your botched false claim pointed out.

More unsupported garbage. If you can provide a quote where I say this do so. Otherwise you are just lying continually hoping that if you say it enough it will stick. You know … the Appeal to Repeition fallacy scum love to use.

KAST – ANSWER THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS YOU IMMEDIATELY. I KNOW YOU IGNORED THEM EARLIER BECAUSE YOU CAN’T PROVIDE NON-SCUMMY ANSWERS.

Do you believe there was a 4-man original scum team in a no-reveal game? Do you believe there is a Serial Killer?

Please show how your slot’s vote (2nd) or Furc’s vote (4th) on Robo were anything but opportunistic. Because selectively attempting to smear Neto in the manner you are doing while ignoring Furc and Shotty’s reasoning is scumtastic.

And please explain why a modified Hider mechanic sounds like a scum ability in light of the fact that you butchered the mechanics as shown above.

Furthermore answer the following questions –

1. Why did you incorrectly state that there was not a Death N2 when Ythan died?
2. Why did you blatantly attempt to make the argument that Neto could have scanned Innocent by using his ability on a Town player?

More Funny Statements by Kast –

Looking at the timing of the votes, Millar was obviously waiting for someone to place the (effective) L-1 vote. It is implausible that scum would simply L-1, Hammer, ZR. Regardless of whether the scum team planned the ZR to end the day early or whether Millar was taking action on his own, Millar and Fur's votes were too close and it is implausible that scum would place votes so close and essentially guarantee that they both come under fire and have increased suspicion as a result.

It’s a grade A WIFOM sandwich. Reaper I’m sure appreciates this. LOL, Furc and millar can’t be scum together because no scum would ever do that.

Potential slip. How does MoI know whether a mafia kill is a factional ability or a result of role abilities? This is not something that is always or generally true; particularly not for theme games. This is EVEN LESS likely if he truly believed that mafia have different kill methods with different kill flavors.

LOL. Mafia’s kill ability isn’t Factional because it happened in a few other games. Thus please ignore the sound logic backed by 99% of games.

Stretch Armstrong must be getting very tired with you around Kast.

[MagnaofIllusion]

A Note to all Town Players -

Take a good look at Kast's play.

He's spamming the thread attempting to turn the game into an emotionally charged affair because he doesn't have much room to stand on.

He can't support his point so just throws lies and misrepresentations around.

Lastly review Neto's play for yourself and decide if his attempts to paint Neto as scum who played a bad game hold water. Especially in light of his views on Furc.

When you are done digesting you know what to do .... vote for obvscumKast.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Look at all the

UNANSWERED QUESTIONS FROM MY PREVIOUS POST

that Kast has once again chosen to ignore.

Scumtastic play - demand others be accountable but don't answer questions yourself.

Vote Kast for a less scummy Theme 1000.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Furc

– Who did you hide behind N3?

@magna, I know what it is, your peacocking read the same way that someone begging and flailing did to me

If you know what it is why do you insist on using it wrong? Purposely labelling something as a fallacy when it is not is scummy. Why don’t you get over your wounded pride regarding Harry Potter Mafia. You played like crap and were forced to Treestump because you were going to be lynched. Life goes on.

Without quoting the mod's PM directly, can you be as specific as you can about how grapple beam works? Does it explicitly say it copies abilities, or just the effects of abilities? That's an important distinction. Can you ask the mod for clarification if possible?

I’ve previously asked for clarification. To post without directly quoting – any ability that affects the Grapple beam user will also affect the Grapple beam target. I specifically asked whether a Nightkill targeted at Neto would also affect Spyrex. SaintK confirmed it would put made no mention of flavor results.

Bolded to show your lack of reading ability.

Sigh … your simplistic take on the issue deserves attention. You are claiming that the information provided regarding millar is a MOD mechanic and not a player driven result. That’s fine. Please explain the following then.

Why is millar the only Day / Night 1 flip? I’d really love to see how you justify 1 scum player killed / lynched Day / Night 1 flipping but not another.

You chose to investigate a player because you thought he was pro-town, DESPITE ADAMANTLY REPEATING in game that proving role abilities does not prove affiliation. Please link to a game in which you as town decided to try to investigate and find potential town instead of investigating to find scum.

Proven abilities does not equal proven alignment. I’ve repeatedly said this. That said I’m intelligent enough to make my own judgement’s based on reliable information (ie information my Steal ability shows that is provided by Mod).

Since you are on the bandwagon of attacking claims regarding abilities why do you consider Furc’s Ability Cop power to be more an indication of Town status than Muffin’s Alignment Cop power. Because in my experience Ability Cops often are Mafia while Alignment Cops almost NEVER are.

I’m sure your response will resolve around their play. That’s fine as it’s pretty clear to anyone not trying to spin a scumtastic case that Furc’s play is textbook VI compared to Muffin.

-Why wouldn't you stop a kill?
--Why wouldn't you try to confirm suspected vig/scum and if vig control a kill you obviously didn't trust in Shotty's hands?
--Why wouldn't you use the investigation on suspected vig/scum to guarantee lynch (instead of targetting a lurker who wouldn't be in the running for a mislynch anyway)?

Lol read what I wrote. The explanation is right there. But your last statement is interesting. Smart Alignment Cop play isn't to scan a suspect you find already suspicious. Smart Alignment cop play is to scan a player who is difficult to read. So attempting to paint my decision to scan bv310 as not wise is again scumtastic.

You aren't addressing any of my content. We agree that Neto demonstrates stronger and more rational play in general than Fur. That does nothing to counter my point. The fact that Neto is dead likewise does nothing. Less straw men and more addressing my actual post please.

I’ve clearly addressed the issue but you keep blantatly pretending I haven’t because your arguments don’t hold water. Neto’s play was much more Pro-Town than Furc’s. End of story. Throw around accusastions that Neto’s wasn’t being logical all you want. Everyone else can judge for themselves.

I again laugh at your attempt to discredit using Wikitells. Funny. Pointing out the pure scum motivation in attacking a dead player shows why you are scum.

To be clear, you are claiming that kill flavor is no different from any other flavor. Please be clear.
@Mod- Please clarify whether kill flavor is meaningless fluff or whether it actually indicates different game mechanics.

Incorrect. You are the one arguing that kill flavor is a game mechanic while other flavour is meaningless. If that’s the case why did you bother to post all the flavor you received from RC regarding hearing noises?

Clarify. Nowhere in Page 1 does it say that destroyed is "generic kill flavor". It explicitly states that individuals who are lynched will be "Destroyed" and nothing more than that.

If you can’t understand the eminently logical leap that Destroyed is generic flavour I can’t help you. Your inability to not understand that 1+1=2 doesn’t make it wrong.

In case your reading comprehension is too poor to understand that, I think there is one remaining scum and MoI is it.

My reading comprehension is fine. I just wanted to to clearly commit that you think there is 1 scum of any flavor left.

Read the post.

I did. Your argument that Neto’s vote, based on his back and forth with Robo, is more opportunistic than Shotty / your vote “cause innocents have nothing to fear” and Furc’s “Robo annoys me” is just ludicrous and scummy.

Be more clear. I pointed out that MoI-scum is probably lying about using Fur's stolen role cop ability on his buddy Neto-scum. MoI's claim about Neto-scum's ability has a huge, objective flaw. The ability itself is likely to be a scum potential protection/potential misinformation ability. Neto likely didn't even use the ability on Day 1, much less use it to target Spyrex.

What he probably did is target Spyrex with a "generic" mafia kill.

Bolded for emphasis. Look closely what is being said. Kast is claiming a generic mafia kill flavor that is the same as the lynch flavor. But earlier he’s argued that each Mafian should have their own kill flavor. He also argued that the flavor written by the Mod is rich and that Mod would not make the mistake of duplicating flavor. Selective arguing of the facts? Scumtastic.

How do you know that the mafia kill will not appear as a player ability if investigated by a role cop? This is the crux of this objection; MoI's claim that a role cop investigation would not reveal kill abilities if targetting a mafia player.

It’s clear logical reference. I have two different abilities. My ability to steal and my secondary ability that BV310 has vouched for. Furc has claimed the ability to hide in addition to his Observe ability. Yet when I stole from him I didn’t get both. I only got the ability to Observe. Likewise I only saw one ability from both Neto and Spyrex (not that we have any confirmation that they had mutiple abilities). Do you think if I had stolen from a Mafia Roleblocker (which we almost certainly have) that I would get both abilities?

And to correct you Furc isn’t a ROLE COP. He’s an ability cop. Huge difference there Tex, but one I see you seem to be ignoring in your desperate attempt to make me look like scum.

So your points after that aren’t really valid as Furc it’s clear from both my and Furc’s statements that he’s not a role cop but Ability Cop. He never claimed to be able to determine someone’s role just their ability.

2. MoI has roleblocked two cops. This is undeniable fact.
-The first cop was a role-cop and he claims he used the role cop to investigate Neto in order to confirm a townie. Why attempt to investigate a townie instead of attempt to find scum?
-The second cop was an affiliation-cop; yes the investigation of Muffin would most likely confirm Muffin town (ignoring possibilities of SKs), however he claims to have used the stolen investigation on a lurker instead of using it on either of the two players he claims to suspect as scum. This makes no sense.

You keep saying that I’m role-blocking someone. That’s an outright lie. A role-blocker prevents an ability from being used. I didn’t prevent their use. I simply allowed myself to use the ability in place of them. So repeating over and over that I role-blocked someone is incorrect. Role-blocking is what you partner who seduces players does.

Once again Furc is an ability cop not a role cop. I'll keep repeating it until you comprehend.

If you are objecting to my scanning of bv310 you don’t know how to play Cop then. You scan hard to read lurkers and lynch scum. Only bad players scan people they find scummy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Played like crap? This just proves that you run your mouth so much you can't spend time to listen. I had dramonic pinned, I had KMD/Reaper as a scumpair in some of my posts. Go read me in iso idiot.

You did absolutely play like crap. You keep spouting that you had KMD/Reaper as a scumpair. Yet you didn’t make MOVE 1 to lynch either of them. In fact you were about to be lynched for your scummy play and had to Treestump to avoid death. Face facts - you are a perfect example of a Village Idiot here at MS.

So let's lynch MoI. If he is red, then we know to lynch muffin, if he isn't, we have a confirmed town by this logic. My only problem with this is I've seen some town players do some funky things that didn't make any sense.

Hi I’m Furc and I don’t pay ANY ATTENTION TO THE GAME. Otherwise I would know it is a Limited Reveal game and that MoI will flip PINK, JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE HAS.

Scumtastic.

The bottom line is that this game is not JUST a limited reveal game, but ALSO a delayed reveal game. Your attempts to pretend it is only limited reveal are blatant denials of something the mod has proven with evidence.

Way to misrep. You attacked me saying I wanted to lynch you before Neto flips scum. I responded say that I want you lynched because you are scumtastic. Your attempts to twist this argument into my saying that millar wasn’t revealed as scum are ludicrous. I’ve never said he wasn’t.

Other points include his poorly thought out claimed target choices and reasons (again independent of Neto's affiliation); his (relatively) unbalanced claimed ability (again independent of Neto); and the inconsistency between his stated distrust of

1. You assertion that my targets are poorly thought out is simply your opinion. Your ‘choices’ of supposed Vig targets are poorly thought out. So you must be scum. See how that works.
2. My claim isn’t unbalanced at all. I’m a two shot Ability Borrower / User. All the ‘rest’ of your evidence of unbalance rests on you throwing other abilities into the fray. Suddenly I'm a Jailkeeper - Roleblocker - Thief all in one.
3. Not sure what the inconsitency is when you don’t even discuss who my distrust is of.

Ask about it.

I have.

You've contradicted yourself by claiming/implying that proven abilities would prove alignment.

No I haven’t … nice strawmanning. I like how you ignore other player’s abilities to use judgement in making reads and assessments.

Once again I will state clearly so you can understand – Ability information CONFIRMED by the Mod is much stronger evidence that I can use in making reads than unsolicited statements made by a player. And please point to where I’ve said learning Neto’s ability would PROVE he is Town. I haven’t. I said -

Because I wanted to see what his abilities were and assess whether they were

likely

to indicate a Town role. Because as a logical player he would be a strong Town asset.. Precisely the reason you killed him.

I’ve bolded the LIKELY for you. So please STOP LYING about what I am saying. I’ve NEVER said Neto’s power would prove he was town.

Don't avoid the questions. Explain how it is better to confirm someone you suspect is a townie than to stop your suspected mafia kill while confirming that player as scum.

Don’t you read? I’ve stated I believe the generic Mafia kill is Factional and would not be stolen by my ability. You can argue MOD mechanics all you want but you CAN’T know whether I’m correct or not. Like so many of your other arguments it’s pure supposition on your part.

To everyone else on this point

– Whenever a player assert that Game Mechanics must operate in a certain fashion that they have no way to know (Kast’s statements about how my own ability works and how the GM would resolved the Grapple Beam, for example) it’s pure supposition.

If that is honestly how you feel, then we have a serious disagreement in basic theory. I strongly disagree with your assertion that a cop should ignore his top two suspects in favor of checking/clearing a lurker.

If you are just pretending to believe that, then I really dislike your scum tactics; attempting to lowering the quality of game play in order to benefit your team is just lame.

We do have a disagreement about how a Cop should be played. Here’s a hint – your opinion is no more valid than anyone else’s. The bolded portion is a great attempt to throw mud.

This is NOT what you did; you investigated someone you did not suspect and ignored both of your top two reads.

More unsubstantiated bullcrap. Prove I ignored my top reads. Otherwise you’re just once again lying and making things up.

You have asserted that you are correct, but never once attempted to explain or address my explanation.

You’ve only asseted that you are correct. Your point with this?

Are you paying any attention? Agreed, I am the one arguing that kill flavor is a game mechanic. You are the one claiming that kill flavor is meaningless.

Again you are LYING. I’ve never said kill flavour is meaningless. I’m clearly arguing that the DESTROYED death flavor of Spyrex indicates the effect of Neto’s being killed while using Grapple Beam on Spyrex. That’s not saying it is meaningless.

At the same time, you are claiming that lynch scene flavor is actually indicative of the number of remaining scum. This is a ridiculous and unfounded claim.

You are arguing that flavor text only viewable by you in a PM is meaningful to the Night’s events while flavor text posted in thread by the Mod is meaningless. Also note that it wasn’t lynch scene flavor but flavor during millar’s scum reveal. Yet another inaccuracy on your part.

Reading comprehension failure. The mod never stated that "Destroyed" is generic kill flavor. The mod stated that it is the lynch flavor. MoI stated that "destroyed" is generic kill flavor. I pointed this out as a possible slip that MoI has private information that "destroyed" is actually the "generic kill flavor" for this game. The only reason MoI would know this is if MoI is scum who knows the generic scum kill flavor.

I’ve never said ‘Destroyed’ is a generic scum flavor. You did. I’ve said REPEATEDLY that Destroyed is the generic death flavor that comes when someone dies when not directly targeted by a kill.

You are assuming there is generic kill flavour for the Mafia. Please indicate how this makes any logic sense in that we have kills flavors of Shot (Neto) and Scratched and Torn (Ythan).

-To be clear, when you say you "hid" it's similar to a standard commuter ability. MoI's post seems to assume you used a redirection ability (ie. reverse bodyguard).

No my post clearly assumes his second ability is a Hider. I know you must be aware of that role.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@ MoI -- Do you still think Kast is proper scum? If so, why does my logic fail to hold?

Kast’s scummy attack on me today is pretty much forcing me to believe he’s scum. Let’s look at the components of his attac.

1. That my information about the GrappleBeam is a lie based solely on the flavor of Spyrex’s death being generic instead of Shot. This indicates that I’ve botched a fake-claim.

He’s not addressing any of the following regarding my claim.

1. That my nameclaim (Rikku) and job (Thief) match perfectly with the source material. Additionally bv310 has Mod confirmation (in the form of my 3rd Night ability use) that I am Rikku.
2. That his assertion regarding the flavor of Spyrex’s death is simply ‘outguessing’ the Mod.
3. That as the last scum (which Kast has repeatedly stated is his belief) it would make NO sense for me to provide an unprovoked, complicated claim Day 4 when I was under ZERO pressure prior to today.

2. That my choice of secondary targets (Neto and bv310) is scummy.
3. That my choice of primary targets (Furc and Muffin) is scummy because I should have been chosing other targets.

Both are simply further subjective standards and not indicitive of scummy play.

Furthermore let’s quickly glance at what he isn’t addressing –

Voting records. Not a single mention is made of my vote for millar made early in Day 1 that I kept on him the entire day.

In summary the entirety of his case is based on supposition and discrediting my claim based on a perceived weakness in 1 aspect of the claim.

But let’s look at Shotty’s ISO for vote records and other items of note (note regarding any ISOs not listed – they are pure fluff) –

ISO 0 – RVS vote for Iec.
ISO 2 – “I'm going to withhold information from this town by not answering Neto's questions.” – a Null read but certainly not Pro-Town.

Guilty people are paranoid, innocents have nothing to fear.

Unvote vote robo

His first mention of Robo. The reasoning for his vote is weak.
ISO 5 – Minor elaboration on his ISO 4 vote reasoning.

I haven't reread yet to find this dayaction,

but how is voting someone for terrible arguments scummy? What a joke.

Of course I was trying to get votes on him when he's behaving like a scum-bag. You had to go back REALLY far to find someone to throw this terrible argument against too, what was that page 3 or 4 or something?

Emphasis added. Neto’s attack on Shotty is for exactly the same reason that Kast has attacked Neto’s vote on Robo – that it is weak and opportunistic.

ISO 7 – OMGUS votes Neto and makes minor mention of millar.
ISO 8 - Argues against Iec statement that Neto and Shotty are distancing.
ISO 11 – Votes millar to L-1. 2 hours later Furc hammers.

Both votes look like late bussing. All three players were under heavy pressure and could have been the lynch.

ISO 12 – Mentions ‘uneasy’ with Sarak Kerrigan’s ‘human flip’. States the obvious – that lack of alignment with flips makes determining how the Day is going difficult.
ISO 13 – Defends lack of contributions to game, states he will be ‘better’ today.
ISO 15 – Questions my call for the ‘Vig’ to come forward.
ISO 16 – Claims Neto kill.

This is funny, why WOULDN'T you believe the claim? There's no one counter-claiming and no plausible reason I would lie about it. If I am then whoever shot Neto would shoot me yes? What does my activity have to do with my roleclaim? Why are you trying so hard to discredit my claim?

unvote vote muffin

Votes Muffin for questioning his claim, which is weak reasoning given Muffin's statement that he has Neto as a solid Town read. Note the false statement that there is “no plausible reason I would lie about it”. There are several – he’s a SK or a Mafian who fell for my gambit.

ISO 18 – Names Furc and Muffin as top suspects. Says Iec is Town who has fooled him in the past.

I'll agree to the plan to not shoot Furc if that's what the town wants. I'll give up more about my ability tomorrow then.

And yet tomorrow never came as he flaked. Kast care to share whatever “more” about his ability Shotty mentioned?

ISO 22 – Doesn’t hammer Ythan.
ISO 24 – Believes Ythan’s claim and calls him Town. Say he’ll ISO Robo next.
ISO 25 – Says he targeted Muffin N2.

Reviewing Shotty’s ISO shows a complete lack of scum-hunting. His vote on millar is at best trying to prevent his own possible lynch and at worst bussing while doing so.

His vote on Robo Day 1 was poorly grounded and easily could be scum coordinating for the planned quicklynch of Robo.

Shotty’s play indicating scum is certainly possible.

[MagnaofIllusion]

OK, but did you read my post, or did I miss where you responded to it? What do you make of Muffin's claiming he was shot at N2?

You are going to have to actually tell me what post you want me to respond to if 1300 isn't it.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI: I bet you would be very similar to your teammate millar13 in your flip

I see nothing in the rules that prevent the following proposition -

A two month avatar bet between us as follows Furc -

When my alignment is confirmed (be it during play or at the end of the game by RC) if I am revealed as Town I get to choose a site appropriate avatar for you that you must use for two full months.

If I am revealed as Mafia you get to choose a site appropriate avatar for me that I must use for two full months.

Dare to put your money where your mouth is Furc?

@MOD

- if you disapprove of this please indicate so. I see nothing in the rules regarding this sort of situation.

[MagnaofIllusion]

of course i'll take your bet
i have nothing to hide

Done and done. I’ll start picking out appropriate avatars for you soon.

I'll summarize the relevant bit for you again:

1. Muffin claims someone shot him N2.
2. Shotty/Kast claims he shot Muffin N2.
3. Ythan died N2.

Doesn't this imply that Shotty isn't mafia, unless vig/SK killed Ythan or Muffin/Kast are scum together?

Yes, taken at face value all three lead to the conclusion that Kast isn’t Mafia (or Muffin and Kast are Mafia together).

That said I’m having a hard time deciding exactly how much stock to put in the flavor related texts not posted in thread. I fully admit another portion of my reserve is tied to the Kast versus myself slap-fight that has been going on.

That said nothing about those facts together shows that Kast can’t be a Serial Killer. That said I have a hard time believing on exists in this game based on my earlier Role PM analysis.

I agree. Muffin-Kast would require a pretty epic bus. Also, I think there's some evidence that the flavor text has grains of truth in it, based on comparing information from different players.

I doubt they are scum together purely based on Muffin’s Alignment cop ability. If that’s a Mafia power than RC / SaintK are bastards SMILIE

That said I don’t think Muffin-Kast is that epic a bus given that Kast has only voted for me today. It’s easy to sling as much mud as possible on a partner if you never vote for them and set up the perception that if I’m scum Muffin must be Town. Especially in the limited / delayed reveal environment we are in.

If Muffin got information that he was shot at, we can probably just ask people whether they got similar flavor. This would give us hypothetical evidence of successful protects without outing anyone.

@ MoI -- Did you get information that you were shot at (or otherwise targeted) N3?
@ all -- Have you received shot-at (or other) flavor yet this game?

Here is the entirety of my flavor in Night PMs from Reaper.

Night 1 PM 1 – After hearing what Furc claimed to have I decide to swipe from her. After the sun has fallen I sneak into her bunk, pick the lock and search her quarters. As I sneak away with the binoculars I hear her move in her bed, beginning to wake up. I sneak away as fast as I can.

Night 1 PM 2 – No significant flavor. I see that Neto has the ability to GrappleBeam and because she used it on Spyrex I get to know that Spyrex can Hack the Database.

Night 2 PM (only one since I had to send in a generic set of actions as I was V/LA over most of Night) – I put on my best sneaking outfit and return the binocs to Furc’s quarters. I break into Muffin’s room, hoping to find something ‘awesome’. Muffin stirs in her sleep and I pause until she resumes normal breathing. I find a sleek bodysuit in her closet I would love to see her putting on (comment – RC is a perv ). In that pocket I find the IDD.

I leave Muffin’s room and make my way to bv310’s room. As I ponder how to use the IDD I hear footsteps outside bv310’s door. I leap into the closet and wait to see if anyone arrives. After a few minutes I leave the closet and use the IDD on bv310 which returns a green reading of “No Malicious Intent Detected”. I sneak back to my quarters, get naked (again RC you perv) and go to sleep.

Night 3 PM – I sneak to bv310’s room and wake her up.

No indication that any attempt has been made on my life at all.

[MagnaofIllusion]

More comments in general later when I have time.

That said -

If you have two confirmed (to you) players with which you can choose to Neighborize which should you choose as a logical target.

1. The confirmed outed Cop?
2. The confirmed only to you?

If you are using the Neighborize as a means to pass along information to a player likely to survive the Night you choose player 2.

Please continue to say it doesn't make sense at your whim.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Response to Kast on Page 53.

-I think your attempt to lynch me now is to force through a mislynch before I get confirmed as town. You claim your attempt is simply to lynch suspected scum. We disagree on this.

Think what you wish. I’ve pressed for your lynch (not mislynch, nice subtle AtE there) because I think Shotty’s play is at the most charitable suspect and your attacks on me which amount to flavor and mod speculation / outguessing are scummy.

Please demonstrate how Neto flipping scum Confirms you as Town? It’s possible you are a Serial Killer who had his kill blocked Night 2 and Night 3. Given that you claim to have ‘failed’ on killing Muffin and Iec claims a protect on my Night 3 it is a possibility.

I think you are trying to get me (with Muffin as your second choice) lynched for the same reason you stated above – our abilities are confirmable and thus position us as strong Town presences.

-You claim that my expectation for Neto to have a delayed flip betrays a failure to read the rules (and potentially an attempt to trick others) is invalid. The rules and mod evidence actually support my expectation.

Yet you’ve never explained why you expect Neto’s flip (from the same Day 1 / Night 1 cycle) to be delayed longer than millar’s if they are both scum. Again … you are engaging in Mod speculation and asserting I’m scummy if I don’t buy your unprovable speculation.

You also haven’t addressed the possibility that millar’s flip is not simply delayed but a function of a player PR. It is possible we have some sort of gravedigger.

1. Your targets combined with your reasons for those targets are inconsistent with your other stated beliefs. Inconsistencies between claimed night choices and in-thread beliefs are a fairly reliable scum-tell indicating a botched false claim. Example: You propose that Fur investigate Shotty to catch a probable liar. However, you yourself do not investigate your suspect Shotty, and instead investigate a player you are not suspicious of.

Are you now the one not reading? I explained clearly my original plan. My plan was to have Furc investigate Shotty while I stole from him. This would allow me to see Shotty’s main power while testing Furc’s honestly as I would know what results he should show. For me this was a way to get a better handle on whether Furc is scum or just a classic VI.

When Ythan’s claim and Muffin’s subsequent claim appeared the agreement from Furc for my plan disintegrated. Thus I decided to confirm Muffin’s ability (which would confirm him 99.99% in my eyes). This also has the side effect of giving me a more likely than not scum read on Furc since I know I am Town and Muffin is almost certainly Town. Furc is likely scum based on the balance issues you have spoken about.

Please ask SaintK or RC about the flavor results.

I did. The result (from RC) is paraphrased as “some abilities may affect playes in different ways, and I will not say any more on that specific issue".

-It is contradictory to claim that proven abilities has absolutely no bearing on determining a player's alignment (your claim wrt Fur), but to also claim that proven abilities can have a bearing on determining a player's alignment (your claim wrt Neto).

You again ignored most of what I wrote in the response. Strawmanning again. Abilities of a player that are confirmed to me BY THE MOD (via my power) are much stronger evidence than claimed abilities made in thread with no MOD confirmation when I am exercising personal judgement. Note that the only way we have proof that Furc’s ability is proven is my word. He’s never been able to provide results.

Once again my ability to make informed judgement calls based on MOD confirmed information (to me) isn't inconsistent with not trusting non-Mod provided information.

-The mafia kill is factional
-Factional abilities do not appear to your thief power
-Kast is mafia with a special kill ability
THEN:
-Investigating Kast will reveal the special kill ability which will implicate Kast as mafia (and potentially block the mafia kill).

Are you suggesting that Mafians have special kill abilities above and beyond their regular Factional kill? I find that very unlikely.

A more proper assessment of the situation is –

The mafia kill is factional
-Factional abilities do not appear to your thief power
-Kast is mafia with other abilities / no other abilites and a factional kill
THEN:
-Investigating Kast will reveal his other abilities (if any) but will not show a factional kill.

To summarize my position on the “generic death” flavor.

I believe Destroyed is a generic flavor used when someone is lynched or some dies while not being directly targeted for death.

I believe that direct kills have specific flavor (Shot, Torn to Shreds) that is specific to each person with a kill ability.

This is my opinion. I think Theme game history leads this to be a solid conclusion.

-You ignored Shotty (your top scum read) and Fur (your second scum read). Instead you investigated players you expressed no suspicion of {Muffin, Neto, BV}.
--Are you disputing that Shotty and Fur were your top two scum reads?
--Are you claiming that any of {Muffin, Neto, BV} were part of your top suspects?

No, I didn’t ignore Furc. I had already confirmed his ability as Ability Cop. Confirming Muffin as a valid Alignment Cop means Furc is likely scum.

Scanning a hard to read lurker over a scummy player is good Cop play. Your argument that good Alignment Cops catch scum is valid. However you can’t show how scanning a tough read can’t lead to finding scum.

Obviously Shotty wasn’t a suspect for me until Day 2 when he claimed the kill I believe was possibly Mafian. His play was scummy so wasting a Alignment scan on someone I want lynched is a bad play IMO. So no, I didn’t ignore Shotty either.

Stealing from Muffin either 99.99% confirms he is Town or catches a fake-claiming scum Cop. You may portray this as bad decision making but it’s a good decision IMO.

I have explained and provided evidence for my assertions.

You’ve provided opinions (mostly based on set-up / mechanics speculation) that doesn’t rise to the level of evidence in my eyes. I’m not going to spend more time arguing theoreticals with you.

You have repeatedly tried to claim that kill flavor is not actually a game mechanic tied with the actual kill. You have inconsistently, been forced to admit that kill flavor is tied to the source of the kill.

No, I’ve argued the the flavor of Spyrex’s death is an indication of the Grapple Beam effect. You’ve argued that it is the result of a generic Mafia kill while also arguing that specific flavor exists for your claimed Vig kill.

Actually, I've never played with or encountered a Hider role before. Thank you for expanding my repertoire.

Given you’ve been at MS for over a year more than I have yet have never seen the Hider role used (or even claimed / referenced) I find hard to believe. That said I don’t have the energy to go through your game history to find if you are lying.

If you claimed Grapple Beam changes a targets name to "AppleBee" but claimed target's name did not change to "AppleBee", then it is not outguessing the mod to assume the mod's failure to conform to the claimed ability is indication that the person claiming the ability is a liar.

That’s a false argument. I claimed that the Grapple Beam caused the target to also be affected by abilities used on the Grapple Beam user.

It’s outguessing the Mod to assume that the Shot flavor MUST be duplicated by the Grapple Beam. You can’t assert that the MOD can’t use a generic death flavor the same as a lynch in that situation and not having it be 'outgessing the MOD".

1.3. Mislynching the inactive town vigilante before he can be confirmed is one reason for you to come forth, especially if you have no idea who he will target (and did not know he was out of kills) and

he already killed your buddy who nobody else suspected. Getting momentum against the rolecop who is publicly suspicious of you is another good reason for your gambit.

Bolded for emphasis.

Repeatedly asserting that Neto is scum simply doesn’t make it true. Sorry. You haven’t provided any evidence that isn’t opinion statements amounting to ‘he wasn’t playing logical as he says he does’ and ‘he must be scum because he was third on a wagon’.

Furc’s suspicion of me is because he’s likely scum and has no choice but to go after his detractors. Not to mention that fact that his Ability Cop status conflicts with Muffins Alignment Cop status. Both are probably not town. You of course see Muffin as scum. I know as certainly as I can that he isn’t and thus feel Furc is likely scum.

-Your vote for millar is probably a bus. Millar is a weak player, he's perfect as a sacrificial mafian.

Once again you suggest that my suspicion and vote for millar, which persisted much of the day (like Muffins) is likely bussing while Furc’s desperation hammer makes him Town.

@EVERYONE

– I’d like your opinion on Kast’s presentation of my and Muffin’s play regarding millar as bussing.

Are you expecting me to defend Shotty's play and/or comment on your thoughts? For now I'm ignoring that section and assuming it's simply meant to convince others and attack me for things I can't defend. (Is it scumtastic when MoI attacks someone who is not here, or does that only apply when Kast does it?)

Just because you replaced into a slot does not mean you get a ‘free pass’ on the scummy play of your predecessors. Comment on my observations as you wish.

Nice false argument. The difference between attacking a player who is Dead (and thus has no replacement to challenge your attacks) and attacking the play of a prior slot occupant is clear. I can’t believe you would suggest otherwise.

@MoI/Muffin-
-What do you think about Shotty-SK claiming that he has no more kills?

I think it’s an unprobable claim. You’ve already admitted that your kill on Muffin failed. Having a potential kill on me (your other suspect) blocked Night 3 isn’t out of the question. A Serial Killer could certainly claim that opportunistically based on the N2 and N3 outcomes. Null in my eyes.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Remainder Catch-Up

Don't spend too much time on it, because I am honestly town aligned

Read the bet again Furc. I suggest nothing about YOUR alignment. The bet is solely predicated on your statement that I am Scum. Whether you are Town or not has no bearing on the outcome of the bet. When my alignment of Town is confirmed (either during or after the game) you will have lost.

Hope you like what I pick out for you.

it's all too WIFOM to even make a case on really
I'm keeping my vote on MoI

Why start making cases now? Just stick with your non-content posts like always.

explain your reasons considering i'm the only reason we've caught any scum at all

What color is the sky in your world? Seriously … attempting to take any credit for millar lynch based solely on a hammer when plenty of others said they would do so is just plain stupid.

Why are you voting Furc on that basis over Kast or me?

Why did you choose to include yourself in that list but exlude Kdub as a potential scum?

3. You have ignored Kast's suggestion that MoI could have Rikku-consistent abilities while being some other character (like, any evil-aligned Thief female).

Bv310 has MOD confirmation from the title of our QT (which contains the phrase Rikku’s Quarters) that I am Rikku.

Huh? Muffin's been voting Kast on your team for ages. That's what I'm referring to.

In that case it would be a big bus. Obviously I see little possibility that Muffin is scum.

Please comment on the Kast’s assertions that Muffin and I ‘bussed’ millar Day 1. Because if you see Muffin’s vote on Kast today as an epic bus (and unlikely) what is your opinion of the likelihood of a Day 1 bus?

Magna, can you confirm this?

I can confirm that bv310’s alignment was confirmed to me by my scan. I get no Mod confirmation of his name or powers or anything else when using my ‘Befriend’ ability.

I don't think MoI is telling the truth about Grapple Beam; it would mean he was both careless and taking extreme liberties with his description. Neither of those fit the rest of his playstyle.

Seeing your explanation of ‘carelessness’ I find that pretty weak reasoning to suggest I’m lying. Also, since we have never played together please indicate how it is inconsistent with my playstyle? If you have done meta research to make that assessment what does that meta research indicate about my alignment.

From a flavor standpoint, the Grapple Beam in Metroid games doesn't really have a similar effect to what MoI is claiming. The closest thing would be the SSB Grapple Beam used as a grab. And while players can die while grabbed, but that's only a result of being hit by an attack or item, not from some inherent tie with Samus.

Because every flavor based translation must exactly replicate the source power

Seriously does everyone else not see how scummy a statement this is?

I KNOW that my kill flavor would carry over to any flat-out redirection abilities. I also KNOW it would carry over to any flat-out copying abilities. I KNOW that it would carry over to the Grapple Beam IF the Grapple Beam ability works the way MoI initially described it. Obviously he can later claim he messed up his paraphrase, but it loses major credibility at that point.

If RC refused to confirm the situation to you (as you have stated in 1328) then how do you KNOW?

-Please explain what you meant by this:

It’s pretty simple. Bv310 has claimed to have targeted you with his ability that Night. He informed me of this in the QT.

@MoI-
-Assuming your "second" ability is neighborizing, why neighborize with an unknown town lurker (BV) instead of neighborizing with a confirmed cop (Muffin)?

I’ve explained this already in my quick response but to be clear –

1. bv310 had been scanned by me already so he was a Town scanned lurker, not an unknown. Bonus scum points for trying to assert otherwise.
2. Muffin’s Alignment Cop was confirmed by my steal. As a real Cop he was likely a N3 kill target for scum.
3. Thus neighborizing a player more likely to live while still going with a confirmed player was the sound choice.

@MOD - After 4pm EDT today I'll be V/LA until Monday morning. This weekend my family is going out of Town and I will have zero access.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI-
tl;dr

I started, but after the first line shows you have zero intention of discussing and only intend to repeat yourself, it's not worth my time. Enjoy your vacation. If you have anything new that needs a response, please post it in a legible form.

Ok, sorry your time is so valuable.

Everything I have posted is clearly legible. If you are aren't willing to read I'll consider us at an impasse.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI, the main problem I have with your ideas is that I think there is close to 0% probability that Kast is scum because we know he killed someone else when Ythan died. I think you would've realized that this is pretty objective and straightforward and would have adjusted your theorizing appropriately if you were town. As it stands, it looks like you're disappointed that your perfectly-structured frame didn't pan out, so you're continuing to say it over and over out of indignance or something.

So you don't see any way Kast could be a SK? I just want to be clear on that. I don't think we have one for reasons that I've stated before but my theories are just theories on that end.

I'm not sure what exactly the last part means. Are you suggesting that starting today I didn't have any reason to suspect Shotty / Kast? The use of the word frame indicates you think I'm scum.

As to 'continuing to say it over and over' the only think I am constantly repeating is defense of myself given Kast's speculation based attacks. If that makes me scummy so be it.

And if you think I must immediately swing my mindset away from Kast based on matching flavor based information I will disagree with you. I trust Muffin's accounts given that he is cleared Town in my mind. That said I'm still troubled by the fact that this kill of Muffin has no claimed reason as to why it didn't happen. And by the fact that Kast's slot chose Muffin as the N2 target.

I certainly have no protective abilities. You have not claimed protecting Muffin. Muffin has not claimed passive or other protective abilities and has no reason to lie. Kast obviously didn't protect him. bv310 has claimed that he didn't target Muffin with his abilities and based on my scan of him I trust he is Town and thus has no reason to lie. Furc has not claimed to have protected Muffin. That leaves on Kdub as a reason why Muffin is alive. If he hasn't claimed protection why is Muffin alive. That fact troubles me enough that I am not going to just 'drop it' based on flavor alone.

A couple of questions for you -

1. What is your impression of Kast's bussing statements regarding myself and Muffin and millar on Day 1. Do you think our interactions with millar Day 1 represent bussing?
2. Do you consider me Town? You obviously did up until today based on your claimed N3 protect. If yes do you think Kast's 'thinking' should have corrected based on all the information provided (as you asserted mine should have)? If not I'd like to see reasons (other than your stated reason for not liking my questioning of Kast) why you think so.

@Kdub

- Do you claim protection of Muffin N2?

[MagnaofIllusion]

A parting word before I leave today -

If I am lynched while V/LA look make note of my wagon. I guarentee both remaining scum (or three if Kast is a Serial Killer) are very likely there.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Back from a fun weekend …

Welcome SSBF.

That's not the bet I thought I was taking. I thought I was taking one that I lost if *I* was scum. I am not taking this bet, then, because I am honestly not sure what alignment you are.

So your statement that you ‘would bet I am scum’ was just rhetoric them. And your continued inability to read and comprehend is mind-boggling.

I've just caught up. I love to see MoIscum flailing in rising water.

More rhetoric with no redeeming game value.

Interesting how you label my as scum here when you just posted that you were too chicken to make the bet based on my alignment.

when he comes back, he's just going to lie

Lulz. Just lulz.

--BV is going really far to defend MoI on very little evidence. QT titled with a character name is not automatically confirmation that the player inside is the named character (a scum neighborizer whose neighbor QT title revealed that he was Evil would be a pretty pointless power). We also do not know whether all scum have antagonist (Evil) characters; it is possible Rikku could be scum.

Another further example of how Kast theorizes consistently to make every possible outcome show me as ‘scum’. More supposition about what MOD would or would not do.

If Kast is considered ‘cleared’ by the matching flavor I’m going to have to let my vote for him go. I’m still greatly troubled by the inability for ANYONE to being able to say why (other than Kast’s further wild speculation that my ability is also protects along with the role-blocking / ability-copping / power stealing he has already claimed it does) Muffin didn’t die to Kast’s ‘kill’

I know Muffin and am 95% sure (barring sanity issues with Muffin) that bv310 are Town and will thus not lynch them. If Kast is ‘clear’ that leaves 2 Mafians (unless Robocopter really was Mafia, which Muffin’s flavor text is placing in doubt) in

Kdub, Furc, Iec.

UNVOTE: Kast
VOTE: Furc

You are the most viable lynch and having to chose between you and myself when I know I am Town makes my decision easy.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I don't think either of you addressed BV's admission that MoI was responsible for stopping him from targeting Fur on N1. That's pretty much a clincher that MoI has been lying about his ability. It doesn't look like he's interested in doing that.

What should I address -

Here are bv310’s statements –

In the vaguest re-wording of the PM, Furc tells me that I'm not needed, and I lose him in the corridors.

PREVIEW EDIT: MoI's targeting of Furc N1 explains why I wasn't able to target him. Also, I reread my N1 PM, and it doesn't seem like I was unable to target him, but that I was simply not needed due to an other influence.

The first post summarizes that in bv310’s PM from MOD Furc tells him his help isn’t needed. Given I know what bv310 has claimed his ability is it makes logical sense.

The second post is mindboggling. Bv says in the first sentence that he wasn’t able to target Furc. In the second sentence he says the PM indicates that he ‘wasn’t unable to target Furc’ (which when removing the double negatives means he was) and bv310 wasn’t needed. You’ll have to ask bv310 why he’s contradicting himself.

For the record – Kast has once again failed to answer the point I made – that every one of his theories mystically must indicate I am scum. And he doesn’t address the continuing spiral of scope my Steal ability seems to have – what will it do next? Janitor my target? Recruit my target? He’s already said it Protects – Blocks – Ability Cops – Steals.

[MagnaofIllusion]

--MoI has a jailkeeper role that lets him use an ability of the player he jails. It's a pretty simple theory that I proposed from the beginning; it is the ONLY theory that anyone has proposed that fits with all available information. His claim that there is some "continuing spiral" is a blatant lie attempting to distort the actual post record.

But the GAPING hole to this statement is this - I publicly posted the direct name of Furc’s ability before he did. A Jailkeeper would not know the name that Furc’s ability, but a Thief would.

Furc’s claims Day 1 –

I am Tanya Adams, who I have no idea who that is. I looked it up, and apparently it is a command and conquer character. I'm not really into command and conquer. I can check what abilities people have twice a game, so you all might make use of me.

buddy, get out of here with that shit. i am just fucking telling you who i am, and that i can "interrogate" people. i can't see alignments, i can see people's abilities. i'm not 100% a cop, but i am confirmable town. if i get myself killed tonight by scum, what the fuck ever, i'd rather us have a chance to lynch fucking scum instead of you fucks mislynching me.

Note that Furc never uses

OBSERVE

to describe his ability in these claims.

From my info dump –

Night 1 – I stole Furcolow’s ability. I wanted to confirm his claim that he was an Ability cop. His powers derive from a pair Binoculars that allow him to

Observe

someone and determine their powers.

Note the bolded Observe. Now on where Furc confirms this afterward –

I wish I could, but I've had trouble with thieves and roleblockers on using it. Let me check my role PM in a new window. It states that I will

observe a player

and interrogate them, and that I can do it twice a game. I would have been able to do it twice, I mean, if it hadn't been stolen by the person I'm about to put my vote on.

In this post Furc confirms the exact language I used. For further emphasis to use his ability he would PM MOD and stated Observe – Target.

So much for your theory that Jailkeeper covered all the information.

I’d love to see you logically explain how I could possibly know the inner workings of Furc’s ability if I wasn’t an ability Thief.

Also, how do you explain Muffin’s flavor that he was up looking for the item I stole from him N2 when you tried to ‘kill’ him. That flavor clearly supports my already stated ability to take an item from a player.

[MagnaofIllusion]

A jailkeeper would not be able to use someone else's ability. I never theorized you were JUST a jailkeeper or that you were a jailkeeper who steals an ability but doesn't know what the stolen ability is. Obviously if you add a pointless and completely nonsensical addition to what I theorized, you can easily make your misrepresentation have a hole.

So you are claiming I’m a Jailkeeper – Ability Thief – Role Cop now. This is an upgrade from the Roleblocker – Ability Thief – Role Cop you presented here.

As I said, your theories and opinions flow like quick-silver to explain whatever information pops up. You are either scum throwing whatever crap you can to affect a mislynch (look, I can do that too) or the most tunnel-tastic, least effective Town player ever. I’m looking forward to seeing which.

@Everyone not named Kast / Furc – Do you not see how ludicrous his claim is starting to be? A Jailkeeper on top of Thief?

Going forward I think I’m going to claim Jailkeeper – Ability Thief – Role Cop Day 1 in every game for kicks.

[MagnaofIllusion]

--MoI is a jailkeeper who can steal powers.

Speaking of cutting out the bullshit here is the oddity of Kast’s assertion distilled.

Can anyone claim to have seen a role this modified outside a Bastard game? I doubt it.

Kast is grabbing at whatever he can to make his ‘theories’ fit.

A Jailkeeper who also steals powers and uses them THE SAME NIGHT. Lulz.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Iec make your decision. I’m to the point where I don’t want to argue against Captain Theoretical anymore.

If you think it is likely that I, as scum, would come forward with the elaborate ploy to post the massive amount of information I did at the start of the Day with the intention of getting a mislynch while under ZERO pressure then hammer me.

If you think Furc’s play is more an indication of a Town mindset and Town play than my play then hammer me.

If you don’t think these things are true then either vote for Furc or someone else you think is scum.

[MagnaofIllusion]

A major plot point has been that Kast's flavor (shot) only applied to one of those killed; it didn't apply to SX, who was just "destroyed." MoI has argued that this is evidence that MoI is lying about Grapple Beam (e.g. he messed up his fakeclaim).

I think you mean "Kast has argued".

And I've argued that it is just as likely that flavor doesn't need to be copied for the effect of a Nightkill to be transferred and thus Kast is just blowing smoke.

But feel free to ignore that ...

And I love how despite all the other points of my claim that are not in dispute the fact that there is an 'inconsistency' with the description of the Grapple Beam means I've 'blown a fake-claim'.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Hold up, you said that SaintKerrigan confirmed that Spyrex died due to Netopalis.

Where & when did SaintKerrigan confirm that?

Any and all questions about the setup and flavor should be directed at me, not SaintKerrigan. I would have thought that this was obvious, and it should be, based on the fact that I've been actively moderating the game for the entirety of its duration, not SaintKerrigan.

And he hasn't mentioned that as far as I can tell, at least, not in the thread. But I sincerely doubt that SK would have confirmed anything of the sort even in private, simply because, well... that would be telling.

To interject ...

SSBF is probably referencing my statement that SaintK confirmed to me in PM that a kill attempt on Neto would also end up causing death for the Grapple Beam target.

This happened in that brief window where you were away and SaintK filled in for you Day 2.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Look its Captain Theoretical to the rescue ...

Generalizing instead of looking at actual content since .... when did you replace in again?

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MoI-
Resorting to name-calling as a means of dismissing actual points without addressing them is crap-logic.

Typical that you prefer to create confusion instead of working with SSBF to make sure everything is clear.

We've done this dance Captain. I've stated REPEATEDLY that your logic isn't sound. You've stated mine isn't,

Why do you insist that I do it YET AGAIN?

Why should I work towards certainty that your Outguess the MOD speculation fishing is clear again?

And how typical for you to frame your speculation as the 'moral high ground'. Your ego knows no bounds.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Good game everyone ....

I'll withhold some comments until I see a rundown of Night actions to confirm some things.

Reaper you and Kerrigan did a great job. As I stated in the Dead thread I'm not a fan of percentage chance mechanics and I really think that you gave away way too much with flavor PMs. After Day 2 true scum-hunting pretty much ended in favor of rather mindless flavor and balance arguments. Those minor points aside the flavor was top-notch.

Kdub you did a great job getting the scum-team as far as you did. With 2 of the 3 scum solid targets Day 1 and millar lynched Day 1 getting so far was an accomplishment.
Honestly I think scum might well have been completely steamrolled without the questionable Vig choices N1 and N2.

Day 4 is exactly why flavor and outguessing the Mod are fail for Town.

I look forward to seeing most of you in future games.