Mini 1003 Mafia - Game Over

[Untrod Tripod]

/confirm

[Untrod Tripod]

vote Tasky

. too much rhetoric for this early in the game. I'm like, 1% serious and 99% joking about that

[Untrod Tripod]

ok, uh, I was kind of kidding about voting for Tasky before, but I think the "bandwaggon-starters-are-evil" approach is kind of aggressive so I'm gonna keep my vote where it is. Not because I think it's scummy, exactly, but aggressive voting kind of rubs me the wrong way

[Untrod Tripod]

It's just that, in my experience, it's bad to have someone who votes aggressively, because they're likely to really latch onto a target and ignore scumtells from other people. How do I know? That's exactly the way I used to play. I'd like to say _explicitly_ that I don't think aggressive voting is scumtell so I'm not accusing him of being mafia (though it could be SK or something). I'm just saying it rubs me the wrong way.

[Untrod Tripod]

Ok, Tasky, I'm digging your reasoning. I'm not sure you totally understood what I was saying about aggressive voting, though.

unvote Tasky

[Untrod Tripod]

In my first game on this site town pulled out a win and they did it without maddeningly switching votes every other post. Indecisive voting is scummy.

I think he's just saying that at the beginning of the game it can sometimes be helpful to cast a lot of different lines to gauge reactions. If you do it after day 1, yeah, it's scumtastic, but in the beginning of day 1, it's a legit tactic for town or scum. Although I do think that you throwing suspicion at him is a little suspect.

IGMEOY AClockworkMelon

[Untrod Tripod]

@Magna

Way to rag on me for something I more or less retracted. But yeah, I get why the tunneling argument is illogical. My bad.

I'm kind of curious about Chihu's argument of "we have a 1/4 chance of lynching scum!". You do realize that means you have a 3/4 chance of lynching town, right? Just checking.

[Untrod Tripod]

b) how would you characterize your playing-style? – I wouldn't say I have a playstyle right now. I'm in two games right now and they're my first back after a long break from forum mafia. I'd say I'm cautious about how to use my vote and have somewhat of a distrust of anyone who votes/argues aggressively and tries to take over the game.
d) what do you think about bandwagons? Well, I mean, you have to lynch people, that's how the game is played. I prefer a more cautious approach, in general though and I think people's positions on bandwagons can be telling.
e) what do you think about RVS? It's...necessary? You have to start the game somehow, and random voting is a lot better than day 1 mass roleclaim, although I rate it somewhat lower than dick jokes in terms of entertainment.

also, @Lemon I think you're taking a pretty big leap by saying Magna is scum because he's suspicious of Chi. Let's not forget that Chi was urging us to lynch one of the people who was closest to a lynch. Even if he is new, shouldn't we be concerned as to why he's so eager to lynch? I find that more suspicious than trying to get information out of people. Jus' sayin'

[Untrod Tripod]

Tasky, you were suspicious at your behavior at Page 2. Take note: It was an RVS Period, and yet you were so sketchy and too inquiring.

Why is a bandwagon suspicious? Answer please.

chihuahua, I bet your balls are sweating.. Mr... Too nervous and trying to conceal it with "humorous" shit?

A bandwagon in and of itself is not suspicious. Someone who is consistently one of the last couple votes on a wagon or consistently hops on wagons with little to no original ideas or clear reasoning is suspicious. Simply following the voting patterns of more vocal players is suspicious. Being overly aggressive is suspicious, especially when you're criticizing someone for something that's been commented on a lot. Throwing votes on people with little to no reasoning is suspicious.

UNVOTE
VOTE: Tasky

Let's having something beyond "sketchy" and "too inquiring". "Sketchy" is what you call that guy who feeds chicks liquor until they don't mind the fact that he's tattooed on 85% of his body and lives with his grandparents. Tasky is not sketchy (as far as I know) and I'm uncertain as to how you can be "sketchy" in a game of mafia. Check on how popular usage of that word goes. It doesn't mean what you seem to think it means.

I don't mean to be overly critical, but your last couple of posts are throwing up a lot of red flags for me.

[Untrod Tripod]

scum really likes to jump on other peoples bandwagons

Actually, the scum will try to break bandwagons if it makes good points. They will and will like the town going nuts. Deal with that fact. Bandwagons isn't the same with

"FUCK YES! LET'S LYNCH HIM".

It's extracting information, applying pressure, getting reactions and an emotion depressant.

This is just imo, but I don't really see why scum would try to break a bandwagon if it's not on them. I would think that scum would want the focus to not be on them whereas a townie would be eager to prove their innocence. Then again, a scum would be eager to prove their innocence too if the spotlight was on them. I don't think there's a set behavior for bandwagons for any alignment. It's really more circumstantial. I'm kind of not digging your tone here of "listen, dude, I know what I'm talking about. This is what scum do, "deal with that fact". You're not really proving any kind of authority here with your posts, so your implicit statement of "I know what I'm talking about, guize" is sitting really uneasily with me.

Tell me why "too inquiring" is a bad thing

Too inquiring

is synonymous to

obvious pointless defensiveness

if it is used to point out

Day 1:

RVS

behaviour. Now how is it a bad thing? hmm.

Ok, uh...inquiry would be aggressive. Tasky is aggressive. Defensiveness is kind of what you're doing right now

could you please explain this point a little better?

I answered the question with a smile on my face, without thinking of any better term to describe it. You may ask Mindgamer about how I really play, lol.

way to ignore the question, buddy

RA gets my vote and it'll stay there until I get a good reason to move it.

vote RetroAudio

[Untrod Tripod]

Hey guys. Sorry I haven't been posting much. I've been hampered by professional and person concerns, but it's mostly good now. I've been keeping up with reading the thread and I have to say that I'm pretty mesmerized by the arguments between ACM, Tasky and Chi. I'm finding that I'm thinking either Chi or RA is scum (or possibly both, but probably one). I will make a more in-depth post within a little bit, but I wanted to let you guys know I'm here and have been reading.

[Untrod Tripod]

So upon a reread my biggest annoyance is the invoking of the n00b defense for Chi. I notice that it's mainly Lemon doing so, but I think youngminii's comments warrant some scrutiny on the matter as well. I also have some questions at the end. But first, I have some references and comments:

Lemon:

Post 30

(self)

Chi:

Post 42

(self)

Post 91

(youngminii) sorta... I'm not 100% sure if you're trying to make excuses for him, but I don't know if I like the assertion that he's either scum or n00b. I don't see them as being mutually exclusive. Refer to later in the post for more on this

Post 92

(ACM) again, sorta

Post 98

(Lemon)

Post 103

(Lemon) and thus we start the "well the wiki said this" strategy

Post 125

(youngminii) Again, it's not exactly playing the n00b card, but you're saying "hey, he's either scum or n00b". Again, they're not mutally exclusive. But then, in the same paragraph, you say that it's not a valid excuse for scummy behavior. Come on, pick a stance.

Post 139

(Lemon) So what you're saying is "yeah, his behavior might hurt the town (this means it's BY DEFINITION anti-town behavior, by the way), but let's not lynch him because...uh...he might be n00b". AGAIN, n00b behavior and scum behavior are NOT mutually exclusive. In the same post, you say that Magna is focusing on him for n00b play instead of scum play.

In the interest of not having to type it over an over again, we'll make an acronym for this (and I'll just retype it every time you make an argument on this basis). NASAME (newb and scum aren't mutually exclusive)

. so, NASAME. NASAME. Others have commented on this, but pro-town play is pro-town play. You mean pro-town and anti-town when you say pro-town and mafia, but moving on as other people have noted, when you make a distinction like that, it makes me curious: what do you consider to be protown play? I'll put this with my list of questions at the bottom. NASAME

Post 140

(youngminii). the fact that it isn't a n00b game doesn't mean that he's not excused, the fact that n00b isn't an alignment means he's not excused. NASAME.

Post 141

(Lemon) Metagaming, no thanks? Reference my comments on post 140 for more on why this is a stupid idea. Also reference post 143.

Post 146

(Equinox) This is rather flimsy, but you said you might go along with Lemon on his defense (which is the n00b defense) of Chi

Post 155

(Lemon) NASAME

So I can only see a few reasons for using this defense. I think Lemon might be using it because he thinks that it might excuse his own poor play because if we excuse Chi for bad play due to his join date, we might excuse Lemon. No one in the town is excused from poor play. Poor play is anti-town. You trying to excuse poor play with the excuse that he's a n00b. Deflecting suspicion from a bad player is suspicious.

IGMEOY Lemon

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
I think it's worth noting that in youngminii said in post 110 that he was critical of Chi's play (he quoted RA's post (108)) to say that he had attacked Chi's playstyle and other people had jumped on the "but he's n00b!" thing.

Questions!

youngminii

1. have you picked a stance on Chi?

Lemon

1. what is inherently protown play?
2. What is inherently antitown play?
3. Why is Magna antitown? What exactly scares you about active players?
4. When are you going to stop referencing the wiki page instead of using your own reasoning?

Equinox

1. In reference to posts 143 and 148, WHY is chi a ridiculously easy lynch? Think carefully now...
2. This isn't a question, but I wanted to mention that I *love* THE THEORY BOX that you used in post 159.
3. In post 178, you said that ACM has only made one case against one player, and then you said that it was "a very easy target". Who exactly is he supposed to make a case against? Do you find it more pro-town if someone tries to accuse people who are not easy targets? Is it more pro-town to throw accusations around all willy-nilly? Wouldn't it only be a scumtell if he was making a case against someone who seems fairly pro-town?

Chi

1. In reference to Post 172, how is "If he doesn't post a lot in the next few days, I'll vote him for lurking" using your brain?
2. In reference to post 183, what is the relationship? What leads you to believe there is a relationship?


I still think that RA is scum, but I will

unvote RA

for the moment because I'm finding Lemon and Chi more suspicious upon a reread

vote Lemon

I would also like to weigh in on the ACM debate: ACM, correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm getting the feeling that you don't like posting very much at a time. I don't really feel that this is scumtell, but I get the feeling that you feel that the less you post, the less people can pick apart. I'm getting a null read on him, but due to the fact that he seems to like quoting more than restating, I think we need more info from him before we can claim to have a good read on him.

[Untrod Tripod]

....I realized just now that I IGMEOY'd Lemon and then voted for him. I wrote the IGMEOY at the beginning of writing the post and after all of the references were posted realized that he deserved a vote.
1. it was stupid
2. yes I'm stupid for not remembering to take it out

just wanted to state that now so it's not analyzed later. it was just poor editing on my part. anyway...

[Untrod Tripod]

Ok...I want to specifically know why you think ACM, Tasky and Chi are scum.

[Untrod Tripod]

I will be V/LA for the next three days. I might be able to post, but probably not. Just FYI.

[Untrod Tripod]

Not to be an ass, nhammen, but post 119 is really more about attacking RA than it is about defending Tasky. At the time, Tasky seemed more reasonable whereas at this point he's seeming a little *too* into getting people to do what he says. I'm not disagreeing with his method, exactly, because I think his getting people to post actively has revealed quite a bit about each player, but the last set of questions certainly were, as people have pointed out, a little ridiculous. I'm not sure it's fair to jump on him about that, though. He just went a little far. The rest of his play, imo, has been solid.

[Untrod Tripod]

Eh, no need to prod me, I'm here and reading.

unvote Espeonage

I guess. I'm not convinced that Lemon wasn't scum, but I'll at least cool it on his replacement for the time being. I'm not sure how I feel about this Tasky bandwagon that's formed. I don't really get a scum reading from him, I just get an over-exuberant townie read on him. I felt, reading his posts, that he just thought the best way to catch scum is to get everyone to say as much as possible. I think that's a pretty reasonable thing to want to do. When the town said "I'm not sure why this particular exercize is helpful", he said "ah, fuck it, then" for that particular question and left it at that. I'm just not convinced that he deserves to be at L-2 for that. That's all.

I'm intrigued by all the replacements and will be doing a reread tonight and hopefully some kind of PBPA to analyze some of them.

[Untrod Tripod]

Equinox: I think Tasky is most likely to be scum.

Why?

[Untrod Tripod]

Alright, Chevre. Let's go back over those "reasons you stated before".

Extremely sorry for the delay, I'm not really sure where to start. After a reread, I find my initial suspects to be no different from the main ones: AClockworkMelon, Tasky, and chihuahua0. I'd rather just jump in now, so if there's any specific ponderings you want to ask me about, I'll answer.

Reason 1: Tasky is on my list

Tasky is definitely the votehopping. 7 votes so far, including the one on AWA, which I find useless. There is a difference between lurking and flaking. AWA didn't post but twice and didn't prodavoid, so I don't think AWA was lurking.

Reason 2: Tasky is votehopping (We've only been talking about it for the whole game, dude. Way to recycle information.)

I found Tasky's inquiry about a sample chihuahua0 post odd. He asked it a manner where it seemed as though he would be able to get output from it, then easily explained his reasoning with a little pressure and no actual responses. On top of that, he could of just asked a simple question to get the desired result. His "return" from V/LA is also very suspicious.

Reason 3: Tasky made a list of questions that was weird. Then when people said "that list of questions is weird" he backed off. I mean, admitting fault is scummy, right?
Reason 4: Tasky said he'd try to post every couple of days because he found he could at least have some limited internet access.

Equinox: I think Tasky is most likely to be scum.

Reason 5: Tasky is scum

Untrod: for the reasons I stated before. He was one of my origional suspects, and his suspicious question about chihuahua. I understand the V/LA is null but it still looks exceptionally convienient.

Reason 6: Tasky is scum. See reason 1
Reason 7: See reason 4

Do you have something new to say on the matter, or are you just going to blatantly hop on the bandwagon? Speaking of all of this talk of scumtells, you know what's scummy? Blatant bandwagonning. I think you're just hoping to hop on this one and go with the stuff everyone else has posted. You haven't really presented any new or helpful material for the entire time you've been in this game, despite many opportunities we've given you to address very specific questions. All you've done is try to attack ACM and then lay some very easy recycled arguments on Tasky. It doesn't make you scum, but it sure makes you suspicious in my book.

vote Chevre

[Untrod Tripod]

Equinox: I don't find anyone scummy enough to vote. I thought that would be obvious.

Untrod: I think my resistance to voting Tasky due to my limited suspicion clearly shows that I am not bandwagoning.

And I think that your not voting him despite you having said you think he's scum (for rather limited and suspect reasons, imo) is just a form of breadcrumbing. If we end up lynching him, you can say "well, I never voted for him". You have, as both Equinox and I have pointed out, said very little. Considering that you're moving the bandwagon along somewhat by agreeing with it, I find it likely that you were saving your vote for the hammer and trying to stay "active" without providing "input". Notice I don't find it scummy when other people vote for Tasky. I think they have reasons. Some (not all, imo) of their reasons are flawed, but I don't find it scummy to simply provide content I don't agree with. In watching how this bandwagon has formed, I find you rather suspicious because you keep agreeing with things people have already said without providing your own input and really putting yourself firmly on the wagon by actually voting.

[Untrod Tripod]

UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: Chevre

Why did you do this?

[Untrod Tripod]

I was writing a longish post, Equinox

Equinox: I don't find him scummy enough for a vote. It's highly unlikely that he will get scummier before deadline, though, so I will likely vote him before deadline.

At risk of hurting my brain, I'm trying to decode this into some kind of logical thought. So...what you're saying is this:

I find Tasky scummy
I do not find Tasky scummy enough to vote
Tasky will not appear to be more obviously scum before deadline
therefore I will eventually vote Tasky

I have a simple image to explain my immediate thoughts on that statement:

Upon reading that, considering it, then trying to reform an opinion on it, I came up with this:


I literally cannot for the life of me figure out what you are trying to communicate to us. Did you mean to say that unless

no one else

gets scummier before the deadline you'll vote for Tasky? Because that makes a little more sense, although it still dooms you because you're continuing to push your reason-less vote. It's day 1, brah. Any lynch we make will at best be based on playstyle (or at very best someone slipping up and saying "LOL I AM SCUM") and at worst will be based on someone acting like a fool. I would imitate Equinox's "THE THEORY BOX" right here, but since I don't know how, I'm just going to put it in a new paragraph.

Any day 1 lynch is likely to be town-aligned. It's just probability. Obviously, not everyone who voted for that person or argued against them is obviscum. If you had a decent argument and appear to simply have been mistaken about what their actions meant, you're not going to come under any kind of special suspicion. If, however, a townie is lynched, the players who simply slipped a vote in with either recycled arguments or no argument at all are going to probably come under the microscope first. It is in your best interests to post your thoughts on your votes. It is in your best interests to voice your opinions. Unless of course you have something to hide. This applies to the Tasky wagon, it applies to the Chi wagon, it applies to the Chevre wagon.

We are not defending Tasky, Chevre, we are attacking you. The basis of our argument was (at the beginning) that you were trying to fly under the radar and just tack some support onto an existing wagon (and in my opinion and

in your own words

throw the penultimate or final vote on) without saying too much to incriminate yourself if/when Tasky turns up to be town. Now, however, you're flailing around like an imbecile and attacking everyone who voted for you. If you're town (because like I said, on day 1 it's really kind of a crapshoot at best) it would really behoove you to start posting content. It's up to you if you get lynched. I'm willing to take my vote off of you if you give me a good reason to, and I imagine everyone else is as well.

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm tunnelling now?

Well twice (when I replaced in and when I returned from V/LA) I read through what I missed and found it very lackluster, so I asked if anyone had anything specific to address. The only thing was who I found suspicious, and that was Tasky, and now we've started a big circle.

what about this is hard for you? What are you waiting for, exactly? Do you think someone is going to say "OK, IT'S BEEN LONG ENOUGH, I'M SCUM. LYNCH ME!" It's not ever that obvious. ESPECIALLY ON DAY ONE. Figure out a stance. Find some reasoning. If you think Tasky is scum, say why. And no "because I already said why" or "those things everyone else said" will not work.

In summation: your current strategy isn't working, why are you still insisting on using it? A lot of people are voting for you. Do you really expect throwing your hands up in the air, saying "these people who are voting for me are obviously scum buddies, and then continuing to say the same shit over and over will save you? Really? You cannot possibly be that thick.

[Untrod Tripod]

unvote Chevre

for the moment to prevent quick hammer

[Untrod Tripod]

Untod Tripod wrote:
unvote Chevre for the moment to prevent quick hammer

Are you scared of somebody hammering Chevre?

@Untrod Tripod: What?

Yeah, I don't want someone to slap a quick hammer on Chevre before s/he gets a chance to make what will obviously be a hilarious role-claim or reasoning behind why Equinox, Tasky and I are obviscumbuddies.

Also, ACM, Tasky and nhammen haven't said much/anything about this Chevre wagon, so I wanted to give them a chance to as well. Obviously my arguments about Chevre being suspicious still apply, I just want to give the whole game more time to weigh in on the debate. This wagon moved really fast and even if no one else votes, Chevre still swings from the gallows at deadline. I see no danger in giving more time for discussion. Any reason YOU want it to move faster, redtail? As I said in an earlier post, I firmly believe that you don't have a whole lot to go on during a Day 1 lynch even if the lynch appears "obvious". I'd prefer more discussion (with more people) before we lynch. Why is that a problem?

[Untrod Tripod]

Wanting to give 3 players who haven't said anything really about the day 1 wagon that got to L-1 in ONE DAY a chance to talk about it is bad?

[Untrod Tripod]

Equinox: I did not attack you for attacking me. I attacked you for trying to switch from a solid Tasky lynch to an out-of-the-blue Chevre lynch, which will most likely successful. It looks suspicious. And all that "regardless of my alignment" advice doesn't really make you look better.

I feel I play better reactively, and it hasn't seem scummy anywhere else but this game.

It wasn't really out of the blue. We looked at your actions. They were scummy. I was not, and am still not, a fan of the Tasky bandwagon. I looked at its supporters. You looked the most scummy, so I analyzed your posts. Your reactions made you look worse. I'm fairly satisfied. We gave you a chance to defend yourself, and you didn't do anything to make yourself look better.

Your reactive playing style is a liability to your faction -- you need to actually look for scum like you look for Easter eggs in the lawn. Those eggs aren't going to leap into your hand.

You're either scum or a massive liability, and I'm confident it's the former.

I couldn't agree with these more. Playing reactively seems to not be working out for you very well, I would take the advice of everyone else in the game and try to adapt for future games. I am satisfied with the evidence and am willing to put you at L-1 now. GG

vote Chevre

[Untrod Tripod]

In reference to what you said about me in post466, Chevre. I. Was. Never. Part. Of. The. Tasky. Wagon.

[Untrod Tripod]

Ok now I understand that there is a large amount of confirmation bias here. In light of nhammens last little tib bit on me for the future this may look bad but I propose a derail of the chevre wagon and a move back to Tasky. i still think tasky is scum and should he not be my whole case on Chevre falls apart and I wouldn't ote for her again.

UNVOTE: Chevre
VOTE: Tasky

This waffling in the face of attention is noted for the record.

and god help you if we catch you pancaking

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm checking the thread from my phone while I'm in the pit for a musical. Can't really do much more than point out that pancaking was just a pun. Anyway, that's deadline, right?

[Untrod Tripod]

Having thought about it for a few days, I think we should consider a few things:

Why would the mafia kill ACM?
Why would the vig/SK kill ACM?
Why would the mafia kill nhammen?
Why would the vig/SK kill nhammen?

I don't think there's a way to figure out who killed who, but we should probably consider why those two were nightkilled instead of trying to figure out if we have a vig or an SK. I think I might need to do a reread to see if anyone had something to gain by killing those two. I consider that to be the avenue most worth pursuing at the moment.

[Untrod Tripod]

Ok, sorry about the delay. I've had a large number of family issues crop up along with the concerns of moving across the country for grad school to deal with. But I should be posting more now that some of that is cleared up.

I will be rolling out a couple of larger posts, but I have been bugged by something for a while: Esp's voting patterns. It's been spaced out enough over the course of the game along with a fair number of largely one-line/contentless posts along the way that it's only really obvious in ISO. So, what I'm going to do now is post every single one of Esp's posts that contain a vote:

Chihuahua is Town. there is no escaping that fact. He is so textbook newb it isn't funny. I have played way to many Newbie games in the past not very long to know what I am talking about in this department. Two of my past three games have had players all most exactly the same. All have turned up town. Anyway nhammen gets a pre-replacement tick but noone is confirmed yet.

Now. Tasky is scum. I have seen it so many times when wishy washy voting is the explaination for what he has done. It is worse than that. Now unless tasky is a noob which he doesn't come accross as then he is obv scum. That was early day one scum nerves. Now if he were a newbie than a non newbie game would be enough to entice this reaction. He seemed to be so much more into the game than he should have and seemed to me to be grasping for purchase on a vote wether it was the RVS or not.
So for now. VOTE: Tasky

UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: Chevre

Ok now I understand that there is a large amount of confirmation bias here. In light of nhammens last little tib bit on me for the future this may look bad but I propose a derail of the chevre wagon and a move back to Tasky. i still think tasky is scum and should he not be my whole case on Chevre falls apart and I wouldn't ote for her again.

UNVOTE: Chevre
VOTE: Tasky

Wait hours?
oh.
UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: Chevre

Eh I give up.
VOTE: Tasky

UNVOTE: Tasky
VOTE: Shattered Viewpoint
@ Tasky: I'll answer your case. btw, ^that isn't to do with you. I realised I have a reason to unvote you as well. I just need to go do an iso and find a post.

Seriously? If anyone in this game is tunneling, it's you. I feel like, at this point, we really should insist that you provide a little more reasoning with your votes. So, uh...why are you voting SV? Why are you SO SURE that Tasky deserves votes?

Also, Magna, in response to your assertion about me being an early-game voter for Tasky and using that to draw some kind of line between me and Tasky, I would have to say that I voted for him because I thought he would be a foamy-mouthed crazed vote-hopper. He stated a fair and intelligent defense of his strategy and since then I've (rather vocally, I might add) been of the opinion that his behavior, which has been used as evidence that he's scum, seems pro-town to me. So I unvoted him. End of story.

unvote Espeonage

I guess. I'm not convinced that Lemon wasn't scum, but I'll at least cool it on his replacement for the time being. I'm not sure how I feel about this Tasky bandwagon that's formed. I don't really get a scum reading from him, I just get an over-exuberant townie read on him. I felt, reading his posts, that he just thought the best way to catch scum is to get everyone to say as much as possible. I think that's a pretty reasonable thing to want to do. When the town said "I'm not sure why this particular exercize is helpful", he said "ah, fuck it, then" for that particular question and left it at that.

I'm just not convinced that he deserves to be at L-2 for that

. That's all.

Though I'm not one of Tasky's attacker, I'm not liking this post defending him.

what exactly don't you like?

The X marks the underlined words.

So...you don't like that I don't think Tasky is scum?

[Untrod Tripod]

I think the case against Tasky is better than the case against nopoint:

VOTE: Tasky

I think x person is scummy because other people think they're scummy. We all know that other people think that. Why do YOU think that?

[Untrod Tripod]

The thing that sells me on Tasky more likely being scum is based on meta. Tasky usually says a lot of stuff to qualify his moves, but in that post above, he voted Shattered Viewpoint based on liking your post, Untrod Tripod. Forgoing saying a lot of stuff to qualify his vote; that's not something that makes me see Tasky as sincere with that vote.

wait... on what meta are you relying on exactly?
btw, I posted against SV before UT did... hist post just convinced me definitely to vote

um...that post was about Espeonage...

[Untrod Tripod]

#559. Though, it's always a pleasure to show how ridiculous walls of texts are.

What is so ridiculous about walls of text? Seems to me they're a good way of relaying lots of content in one post. Or allowing you to post all of someone's reason-less vote-hopping at once.

I don't know why I didn't do this earlier, but speaking of which,

vote Espeonage

[Untrod Tripod]

Double Post: Mag, Tasky, and Untrod Tripod have indicated, by their posts, their belief in the plausibility of Espeonage being a bona fide suspect.

Unvote

Vote: Espeonage

Are you allergic to posting your own opinions? You're stating outright that you're jumping on the Esp vote because other players have said he's scummy. Upon reading the game, haven't you noticed that we don't like that?

[Untrod Tripod]

Ok tasky. Post. Make it a good one. Welcome Tazaro.
Maybe now we can actually get some things done.

Probably more eager than anybody. Because he wants blood.
I'm a replacement who's exposed for being green

Now we're getting somewhere. Thanks for posting. One good sentence is a million times better than "I agree with what he said".

[Untrod Tripod]

well, esp, what do you have to say for yourself?

[Untrod Tripod]

redtail: I said my input was undermined by me being green. You really think I'm doing these wishy-washy "I like this; no, I like this now, because I'm scum? I think only now are you opportunistically mentioning how Equi "could certainly see[n] ... as scum." This attacking of the weak player is a huge scum tell:

Unvote

VOTE: redtail

this is called OMGUS

[Untrod Tripod]

redtail: I said my input was undermined by me being green

. You really think I'm doing these wishy-washy "I like this; no, I like this now, because I'm scum? I think only now are you opportunistically mentioning how Equi "could certainly see[n] ... as scum."

This attacking of the weak player

is a huge scum tell:

Unvote

VOTE: redtail

You replaced into a fairly pro-town slot (insofar as you can be pro town on the beginning of day two). And a cursory re-read would show you how much I *hate* the n00b defense. You decent point was sandwiched between two things that I don't like. Also you immediately voted for someone who voted for you. Being wishy-washy at this point is not real good. I mean, at least you owned up to it? I dunno, just keep posting content. I liked Equinox for town enough that I don't think you're scum at this point.

Incidentally, to all players: How do you feel about judging a replacement based on how the person they replaced played?

[Untrod Tripod]

Esp,

My case against you was this:
I posted every single one of your votes. They were accompanied either by nothing or by very flimsy reasoning. My case is that repeatedly swapping votes for no reason is scummy. I documented that you mostly did that all throughout day one. I don't like that. I want more with a vote. Therefore I put my vote on you to apply pressure. My argument is this: you were flipping between two wagons that hardly anyone would question you for voting on. Voting on an easy wagon is not scummy. Voting on an easy wagon with no reason given is kinda scummy. Vacillating between TWO easy wagons with no reason given is fairly scummy. I don't like all that put together. Hell, I'm not positive you're scum, but I'd sure like to hear more from you today. I'm sure you have more intelligent content than Chevre did ( >_< ), so I want to apply pressure to you. Maybe that'll get you talking.

6. I prefer to keep some cards at my chest.

Not gonna cut it. You aren't required to say "HAI GUIZE I HAVE A SECRET READ". Obviously you want to keep us interested in keeping you alive because we think you're hoarding information. I hate that. I'm not interested in keeping players with dubious "knowledge", I'm interested in keeping players who are trying to contribute.

[Untrod Tripod]

Ok Magma is scum, if that is true.

boberz was killed and was willing to vote for Magma, and so was I.

VOTE: MagmaofIllusion

This and a demand for the vig to out themself?

IGMEOY Tazaro

That being said, I usually detest mass roleclaims, but I can support this one, if reluctantly. Although I would want us to go with Esp's order. I'm not sure I 100% believe he's the cop, but it's a good order.

[Untrod Tripod]

I am vanilla townie. What more do you have to say, magna?

[Untrod Tripod]

I have no internet and haven't for a while hence the spotty posting this week. I'll have regular access again in 5 days. I'm posting on my phone until then so excuse the brevity of this post.

Magna and esp I can see as being mafia buddies. There's no guarantee that there is a cop and magna as our jk has failed to actually have any effect on the night. You both aren't confirmed by any stretch of the imagination. A mafia could easily pick one of theor own and a fairly "pro town" player as their investigations and not make a splash. Just sayin.... more later

[Untrod Tripod]

Eh, having to type this on my phone makes it hard to get real arguments down. I guess my point mainly was yeah, let's not just assume that magna is JK. Esp almost definitely is cop, but I'm not sure I'm buying what magna's selling, is all.

[Untrod Tripod]

vote tazaro

If I have to pick between him and redtail.

[Untrod Tripod]

Well I think it's obvious at this point that...uh...Zang is the godfather...

vote Zang

[Untrod Tripod]

Well we could always lynch nopoint

unvote Zang, vote nopointinactingup

[Untrod Tripod]

sigh.

and things were going so well for us...

also, GG all

[Untrod Tripod]

how did my gun still have bullets?

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm really kind of annoyed at myself for botching those kills so badly. If we'd killed even one of the power roles scum might have won. Oh well. It was a good first-game-back.

Thanks for the game, guys.

[Untrod Tripod]

dude, you have to talk smack about the people you're playing against. You beat us pretty soundly; it's obvious that you aren't a moron.