Mini 987: Alternative Vote Mafia- Ovah!

[TheButtonmen]

One liners are pro town.

Yes.

[Anon]

I would like a good damn reason, besides not being in the game, (check my other games for checking my massive inactivity), that explains clearly why I am so high on your lists.

In the meantime, Ill reread what I missed and come up with some scumbags for dinner.

[Anon]

Ok, Pom is very likely scum.

But we can still vote unofficially.
Like this.

Vote:Jack

I don't think that what Jack did (not read the rules properly) makes him scum. It's a nulltell, IMO. Why does it make him scum, Zach?

This is the kind of questions Ive seen scum do more than townies and that caught my attention in page 1. Not only you try to appear active, you also try to generate a fight against two townies. (Yes, if Pomscum -> Jacktown and Zachtown).

I dont like the tone of the question as well. Its like Pom is trying to generate a fight when using the "why does it make him scum" instead of "why are you voting him?"

By page 2, Pom keeps talking about game generals (and enforcing it) instead of scumhunting.

Zach, why do you have to seem so much like scum jumping a quick, early wagon?

Vote: Zach

.

mmhmm, in a game that doesnt lynch with wagons...

Because everyone else's vote makes sense to me except for Elli, but that's just his playstyle. Your less so. Still, looking back at the post in which you voted me, I will Unvote.

backtracking with ellibuddying and even wrong since there were a lot of people that were voting without reasons. Pom voted Zach with NO VALID REASON.

I dont need to read more to put Pom at the top of my list.

Now lets hunt for the scumpartner.

[Anon]

The exchange on page 6 between volkan and buttonmen smells bad. Specially when we analyse this ballot:

Offical Ballot:

1) Jason
2) Anon
3) Shattered
4) Volkan
5) Pomegranate
6) Zachrulez
7) Jack
8) Elliberth

I dont like it, considering Buttonmen was pretty right and aggressive on attacking volkan for posting a lot of fluff but nothing remarkable. Why is he lower than lets just say, Anon and Shattered, players that were useless scummy?

I also dont like how buttonmen and volkan totally ignore pom's scumminess and are staying out of the wagon. Even more interesting is how they agree after the big argument on page 6;

A) Holy crud no questions and B) I agree with Vollkan

Either one of these guys is scum with Pom and is using the other to give her a small chance of surviving, or these guys are both scum and bussing softly while appearing protown ignoring the easy target.

Pom is gut scummy. Vollkan is over analyzing a low activity game.

wow QFT, I was about to write that.

Your push on Pom didn't make sense to me because you hadn't backed it up with anything. Everything I said before was valid - you've only now supplemented yourself with additional reasoning.

is volkan saying here that pushing people with no reasoning is something he has serious issues with? Volkan, is this the first time you see someone pushing without explaining his reasoning?

[Jack]

Sorry I put you as my #2 anon, that was a while back.

TBM push on jason is interesting to me too.

[Anon]

Im thinking more and more on Volkan-TBM scumteam. They sound so informed its not funny. Buttonmen was the first to catch volkan's fluffiness when everyone was putting him as the towniest of the game. And they both ignore Pom's scumminess for players with slight scumtells (Anon for being useless, Zach for pushing without reasoning).

I dont even know who vollkan truly suspects (besides the soft attack against Zach) despite he spamming the thread with game theory.

The problem is that I cant get over Pom's scumminess. Why hasnt she claimed yet?

[jasonT1981]

I would like a good damn reason, besides not being in the game, (check my other games for checking my massive inactivity), that explains clearly why I am so high on your lists.

In the meantime, Ill reread what I missed and come up with some scumbags for dinner.

Yea sure, these are my reasons...

right from the start oes after pom.. and wants quick ballots. this is on Page 2 I believe

By page

2

4, my top candidates for scumbags are Pom and jason. Maybe Zanch and Eli.

I havent changed my mind.

I think we should post ballots here.

calls people out for not scum hunting with nothing done himself.

Elli, why arent you scumhunting?

Comes in, posts his ballots without reasons for anything then demands we discuss. Also despite the pushing of Pom... has me on top of his list.

jasonT1981
Pomegranate
Zachrulez
Ellibereth
Shattered Viewpoint
TheButtonmen
Jack
vollkan
Anon

Discuss

Very little actual content and it seems bussing of Pom.... wanting others to post ballots very early in game not giving people time to get good reads or scum hunt fully..... disappears after posting ballot,giving no reasons for why he thinks people are scummy..

od enough reason for you, Anon?

[Anon]

you really have no idea how to play this game.

why wanting quick ballots is scummy to you?

why do you think nonreasoning scumhunting (the scumhunting I used on previous pages) is not valid scumhunting?

do you think your little actual content (one of the reasons you are using to suspect me) is a good reason to suspect you as well?

[TheButtonmen]

I'm not reading Pom as scum.

Vollkan is lower then you because your scum, he's just scummy at the moment.

[vollkan]

Yea, I have not been paying attention to this game. I have been wrapped up in my other game and forgot about this ome. SV case on me is silly I feel at this point.

Though somewhat hypocritical... right now Anon is topping my list as he has done nothing.

It's not "somewhat hypocritical". You've been lurking and you claim to have a legitimate excuse. I'm fine with that. But you undo that by then turning around and attacking Anon for exactly the same thing. It means you are either being outrightly hypocritical or being too lazy to make a case but also too dishonest to just admit that laziness.

Yes, I did think the deadline was earlier than it was... I was guilty of not reading the deadline date and guilty of assumption. Truthfully, I have not gotten into this game the way I hoped I would hence the lack of activity.

Even with an imminent deadline? You didn't even think to post anything?

I was kinda on the fence about pom, but this post has convinced me Pom is scum.

I think here you're just latching on to the next most feasible case, which would be...let me think...oh:

deflection.

is volkan saying here that pushing people with no reasoning is something he has serious issues with? Volkan, is this the first time you see someone pushing without explaining his reasoning?

I thought I was clear. Let me reiterate:

I

do not

think attacking somebody without reasons (what I call 'gut voting') is scummy. I do, however, consider it completely anti-town and I generally cajole the hell out of people who gut vote to make them give me my reasons. To quote from the "Theory Schools" MD thread a while back, to back this up meta-wise (though, googling vollkan and gut will give you a good idea as well):

I really think Vollkan's actually been pretty much on his own in hating gut votes.

(I am not, by the way, talking about a situation where somebody, for tactical reasons, may say "I am not going to disclose my reasons at this point in time")

Unofficial ballot:

(I'm also using my 0 = obvtown, 100 = obvscum scale, and supplying reasons. I will caveat that in this game my numbers more a rough reflection of relative strength of suspicion, rather than the way I use them in some games of being cumulative additions of scumtells, mainly after replacing in)

Zachrulez

I said before that I wasn't going to take apart his reasons because I wanted to see Pom's defence. That will stand. I will say I think they are very weak, but I'm not counting them as a major problem given the nature of this game. However, the points I raised in my previous "overanalysing" post do stand: his original attack on Pom over discussing theory rather than the game was absolutely untrue (the theory was directly relevant to Jack, he failed to apply this standard to other people, and he kept on Pom despite his suspicion on Jason being clearly stronger at some points, looking seriously like he was hedging his bets). 65

jasonT1981

I don't agree with the "unnatural reaction" attack on him, and I don't think his lurking is scummy. That said, he needs to be questioned over the deadline thing and from the points I raise above, he seems to be approaching his lurkiing in a dishonest manner by trying to deflect on to the consensus candidate of Pom.

60

Anon

Crappy attack against Pom for her tone in asking a question, and then making a lazy line of attack against me for posting 'fluff' and spamming the thread.

55

Ellibereth

I basically find Ellibereth unreadable so far. Seeing now that there is a legitimate case against Pom, at least for a game this low on content, I'm not prepared to find him scummy for the unexplained push on Pom (ie. I would have if it hadn't been explained to be as having some sound basis). So he nets a

50

.

Jack

Basically same as Ellibereth.

50

Shattered Viewpoint
Pomegranate
TheButtonmen

Have to study,....will finish shortly

[Pomegranate]

I know that there's a lot for me to catch up on... but I'm busy until Wednesday night. Or maybe afternoon, if I'm lucky.

[Zachrulez]

Zachrulez

I said before that I wasn't going to take apart his reasons because I wanted to see Pom's defence. That will stand. I will say I think they are very weak, but I'm not counting them as a major problem given the nature of this game. However, the points I raised in my previous "overanalysing" post do stand: his original attack on Pom over discussing theory rather than the game was absolutely untrue (the theory was directly relevant to Jack, he failed to apply this standard to other people, and he kept on Pom despite his suspicion on Jason being clearly stronger at some points, looking seriously like he was hedging his bets). 65

I'm doubting anyone else openly questioned a vote on the first page for theory reasons. And while that theory was relevant to Jack, I don't believe that Pom showed any interest in actually figuring out his alignment. Her questioning and theory to me looks like a player who's trying to appear active while not really doing anything. Discussing theory to justify a position on someone is acceptable, discussing theory for theory sake, while lurking and not seeming interested in reading anyone is scummy.

Also, I feel a bit misrepped on your claims that I had stronger suspicions of Jason. Just because

you feel they are stronger

doesn't mean I do. If I had felt that way, I would have changed my vote accordingly, and my ballot ordering would have reflected that.

[Ellibereth]

ARARGRAH
I JUST WANT POMMY TO CLAIM.

Like, she's scum all over.
And then there's this one thing there that's town in the scum all over.
And I get all confused face.

I think that button/volk are the same alignment. I think I said that somewhere before but just to Zach or something like that.
VOLKAN, OMG QUESTION, what do you think about jason's whole 3 scum thingy.

[Anon]

I'm not reading Pom as scum.

Vollkan is lower then you because your scum, he's just scummy at the moment.

lol wtf?

[Anon]

Button and volkan, why are you not seeing Pom scum?

[Pomegranate]

Pom is currently writing her catchup post, so if you could wait a bit for her, she would be very grateful.

[Anon]

I do not think attacking somebody without reasons (what I call 'gut voting') is scummy. I do, however, consider it completely anti-town and I generally cajole the hell out of people who gut vote to make them give me my reasons.

You should be wasting posts hunting for scummy things, not anti-town stuff. You are not thinking like a townie.

Anon Crappy attack against Pom for her tone in asking a question, and then making a lazy line of attack against me for posting 'fluff' and spamming the thread. 55

Explian clearly why my attack against Pom is crappy.

And second, Buttonmen attacked you first for the "fluff" thing. Its interesting I get 55 and he gets less or equal than 50. Mmmm.

Just curious, what do you think about button's reasonings that explain why I am scum?

[Anon]

Pom is currently writing her catchup post, so if you could wait a bit for her, she would be very grateful.

Pom, just claim.

[Pomegranate]

POMMY.
How serious were you in that post that was sandwiched between my posts on Page 1?

And the next one after that too.
I mean, did you think I was serious about Pommy scum because you sounded like you were all that.

First one I wasn't really serious, second one not at all.

--

ScumJason is lurking because town is focusing on Pom.

We should lynch him instead.

Very.

--

Though somewhat hypocritical... right now Anon is topping my list as he has done nothing.

Jason

, do you think hypocrisy is a scumtell?

--

Pom claim.

What do you think of Jason?

deflection.

Not in the slightest. Elli wants me to claim; I don't think that makes sense; I want to know what he thinks of you.

--

I was kinda on the fence about pom, but this post has convinced me Pom is scum.

Jason

, you quoted a very long post (which I didn't include simply because of it's length). What in that post convinced you?

--

I dont like the tone of the question as well. Its like Pom is trying to generate a fight when using the "why does it make him scum" instead of "why are you voting him?"

I word things weirdly. Deal with it.

--

Zach, why do you have to seem so much like scum jumping a quick, early wagon?

Vote: Zach

.

mmhmm, in a game that doesnt lynch with wagons...

Effectively, it is close enough to the same thing: If I currently find you the most scummy, I will put you at the top of my ballot. (And it feels like a wagon when people post

Vote: Pomegranate

.)

--

Because everyone else's vote makes sense to me except for Elli, but that's just his playstyle. Your less so. Still, looking back at the post in which you voted me, I will Unvote.

backtracking with ellibuddying and even wrong since there were a lot of people that were voting without reasons. Pom voted Zach with NO VALID REASON.

He placed the fourth 'vote'. In fact, you included above it in your post. (Look at the pink above.)

--

Very little actual content and it seems bussing of Pom....

Why do you think it is bussing?

--

I think that button/volk are the same alignment.

I get the same vibe. And contrary to Anon, they seem more twon than scum to me.

--

Currently, the person who will be at the top of my ballot is Jason.

[Anon]

As much as I hate jason way to play the game, all the accusations against him are unfounded basically for this post:

not really, my post was taken from the point of my last post. at that time I didnt seem to sure on Pom. things progressed between my previous last post and the post I just made. I think she is scum, as is Jack and Anon. I was actually already in the process of writing my catch up when I was called out on my posts in other games.

if we work under the assumption that there is max 2 scum in a 9 player game, which seems reasonable enough, jason just told us he is not scum since he is working under the assumption that there is 3 scum in this game.

@Pom, of course youd think Button and volkan are town. They are basically the only people that think you are town with no valid reasoning. If you are town, you should claim in your next post.

[Pomegranate]

@Pom [...] If you are town, you should claim in your next post.

Why? Anon, if you are scum you would want me to claim in my next post.

[Anon]

@Pom [...] If you are town, you should claim in your next post.

Why? Anon, if you are scum you would want me to claim in my next post.

Not at all.

My process of scumhunting needs a flip or a good damn reason (non lynchable claim, powerful town tell, etc) to stop pushing for the lynch or my top suspect. In the balance of my reads, you are the person that has committed more scumtells and nothing in your posts makes me think you are town.

Thats why I want you to claim.

Additional reason is that if you are town, then Buttonmen and volkan scumteam becomes even more evident. But I need to have a certainty that you are town and the only way I can get that is with a flip or with a good damn reason. (non lynchable claim, powerful town tell, etc)

[Pomegranate]

But I don't feel like I'm at the equivalent of L-1. And if that's the case, I shouldn't claim. Right?

[Anon]

But I don't feel like I'm at the equivalent of L-1. And if that's the case, I shouldn't claim. Right?

With 9 players, its 5 to lynch.

People that have expressed desire to lynch you are : Zach, Jack, Elli and Anon.

You, good lady, are at L-1.

[TheButtonmen]

Anon is being obvscum. Pom isn't scummy. Lynching her is a bad move. Lynch Anon or Jason, I'd actually prefer an Anon lynch at this point.