Open 221: unclean - Day 3

[Johnny Rotten]

It is pretty apparent that we have been barking up the wrong tree the entire day. Mig/Shadow and Crazy had the majority of the heat on them all day, and both flipped town.


The scum must be doing a jig right now, flying totally under the radar, and knocking the last cop out of the game.


With no night actions to act on, does anyone have any sort of epipheny they would like to share, or will we be wandering in the dark from here on?

[Alduskkel]

*bangs head on a wall*

Right. 6-3, no power roles. I think our win percentage has been shot to death, considering 10-2 is balanced.

But, well, one must go on.

Anyway, this is what I would have posted if McGriddle hadn't hammered the second he came in. All quotes not sourced are Shadow Dancer's. Think of it primarily as a response to his big post, with some responses to other people tacked at the end. Obviously all questions to SD will not be answered, but they're there anyway.
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Ald24: Please define what is an "active lurker" for you and how you identify him/her.

Active lurking is deliberately refusing to post content.

They're easily identifiable if they're posting normally in other games. Also, if they never say anything about real life problems then it's time to really crack down on them.

Crazy31: OK, slightly scummy for overstretching now. dRool made clear he'd have an eye on SV, that's also a stance. That you try to pressure people into one corner or the other for next to no reasons is odd.

Even if you think Crazy is wrong... how is that scummy? Also, pressuring people (even if it seems random) can be useful for getting reactions.

Crazy33

Crazy did not write post 33.

DIB47: Nice analysis from a game play point of view.

There are a lot of these little notes saying that you liked someone's post, or that you didn't like it (e.g. your notes on Mig52 and Mig53). What is the point of these? It's just fluff which makes your already long post that much longer.

Crazy59: Why do you ask yourself "How could I have avoided almost screwing up as scum?" instead of "How can I successfully catch scum?" You are argumenting from a scummy point of view. That suggests you are in a scum mindset right now, hence scum. I'd consider a vig on you if we had one...

Crazy is just saying that in his experience as scum, using words like "odd" or "interesting" was something he did a lot (and almost got caught for). Therefore, he considers it a scum tell.

SV61: If I'd not know you from greek mythology I'd consider empty nonsense like this suspicious, it's definitely anti-town.

This implies that you have a meta read on SV saying that his "empty" posts aren't scummy for him. Why then do you feel the need to continue noting them afterward? (e.g. your note on his post 73)

JR65: So you better leave the waggon because you could not produce a quick dirty result? Looks more like a framing attemt than serious scum hunting now...

I fail to see how it's a framing attempt.

Ald69: Wow, what a weakvote. Not every time a player agrees on some one else's statements it is authomatically buddying. I don't see go around and pat every one on the back, I take his post as genuine approval.

Oh shit, weak vote on page 3. End of the fucking world here. Anyway, I really dislike it when people just agree with other people without adding anything to discussion.

Ald72: And you obviously realized that yourself...

Don't know what you mean here. If it was such a weak vote, you should be happy that I removed it.

Crazy76: If you complain that heavily about other player's choices of words don't you think you should be more concise in your own expressions?

Because Crazy is a perfect guy and could never make a mistake in his choice of words.

Mig89: His first post I can somewhat like after all, although I guess mostly because of his lack of content.

You like a post because of the lack of content? Somehow I don't think that's what you intended here. Also, this isn't Mig's first post... what are you trying to say here?

Ald94: Another weakvote. You tretch mig's argument far enough to convert into its contrary here.

I don't know what you mean, but obviously you didn't even bother to say what was wrong with my vote, i.e., how was what Mig said not a scumslip (disregarding the fact that he was Town)?

Alb100: So one easy target is found - with three scum in the game. Now you can lean back and relaxe... Scummy

And I'm sure everyone else on your wagon must be scum too.

ald101: Many questions, no answers... Your question to meh is particularly strange. You almost assume meh would have no choice but to vote mig...

No one was asking me questions. And I did NOT assume that MehPusRawr would have to vote Migwelloni. On the contrary, I was just asking for his opinion on an important subject (Migwelloni) and asked why he was still random voting.

alb103: More openly confessed desire for quick blood - reasons can come later... Dafinitely in my scummy list now.

Sounded like the opposite to me -- Albatross specifically said he didn't want the day to end now. And what do you mean by "reasons can come later"?

alb105: So you basically would know nothing at all either way - great reason to scream for blood. SCUMMY

How is it a "great reason to scream for blood"?

alb106: And after all that deep insight into your reads (yeah, sacasm, alright), you hand the cup to some one else...

Interesting point here, I deliberately failed to answer my own question to everyone (who do you think is scum?) to see who would ask it instead.

Anyway, you're trying to make Albatross asking me who's scum into a scum tell.

DIB131: I don't wanna sound like Crazy, But "interesting" sounds really really vague here.

Why don't you want to sound like Crazy?

I would support waggons on the following players: Carzy, Alb, SV and possibly smash and JR.

Interesting that SV is on there, yet according to you all his behavior correlates with a Town meta. I take it you want a policy lynch of him?

Not opposed to an SV lynch, by the way. I have no idea if he is scum, but he definitely has a far lead on top of my list of most expendable players right now.

I'll take that as a yes.

I'm of the opinion that Shadow Dancer seems town, and I'm finding his case against Albatross to be the most convincing made so far.

Why?

Okay. Not really at all liking SDs stances on several things.

Such as his opinion of you? But really, what stances don't you like?

@Alb&Meh: Only jerks go by some stupid "book of secret tells"... If you really thing you make any sense with that then this town doesn't stand a chance.

Yes, the wiki's list of scum tells is completely useless. News flash: those are on there for a reason.

No, the point is that "scream for blood" isn't Hyperbolie, it is the opposite of what I actually said.

Ah, really sorry. Now I see your point. I really overlooked the word "hesitate" in you sentence. I take it back immediatelly. :\

What about everything else about Albatross that you thought was scummy?

/unvote./vote SV

What about your suspicions of Crazy?

Hey guys, I have been watching the game for a little while so I kinda know what's going on. Shadow Dancer looks terribly scummy, especially in 169 ^ he was very aggressive for someone at L-1 but also seemed to apologize too much. I also don't like his secretive nature. He claimed VT so I have no problem Vote:Shadow Dancer

Goodnight sweet prince

Weak. Have you even read the game? 7 pages is easily covered, especially with the only big post being Shadow Dancer's. Right now you just look like scum who want to get a townie lynch over with.
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Now I am not usually one for NK speculation, but I have to wonder why Crazy was killed. Obviously he was a Cop, but did scum just get lucky or were they finding Cop tells on him?

Or perhaps they simply tracked him on Night 0. It may be worth it to find out who he investigated. Chances are he did not get a guilty; if he did, he would have reported it because then our odds of lynching scum (assuming we believed Crazy) would have shot up to 3 in 5. Therefore, he investigated a vanilla townie or the godfather.
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Now all that didn't really say a lot about who I suspected. Some suspicions were in the response to SD but I know that's not enough to make a serious vote on anyone. With the game still pretty short, I'll be rereading later, and with 3 town flips that should be enough for some additional insight.

[Shattered Viewpoint]

@Alduskk: Are you asking my to do a PBPA on SD's huge wall? Will that do any good now that he's dead? (Yeah, it probably will. I'll get to it later today.)

I'm not a huge fan of math, but even I can tell we're basically screwed.

I'm going to look through Crazy's posts, see if I can find breadcrumbs (I'm about as good at that as I am at math, so don't hold your breath).

[Shattered Viewpoint]

Hey people. This is my first mafia game in a couple months, and I had to replace out of my last two. I'm out of school now, so I should definitely be able to complete this game.

One thing that I've thought about is a possible Miller claim. In a closed setup, most people agree that a Miller claiming Day 1 is a good idea. This setup is different, and I haven't come to a definite conclusion yet, but I'm leaning that it is probably a good idea.

Pros:

-It gives the Cop a definite 2 (or 3) people to NOT investigate EVER.
-If 2 people claim Miller, then that's 2 confirmed innocents that the Mafia have to deal with (if they kill them or not).
-If 3 people claim Miller, then we can scum-hunt freely among those three (with better than average chances), without worrying about accidentally outing the Cop.

Cons:

-The major thing against this idea is that it gives the mafia two less targets for the cop.

Whatever happens though, we have to ensure that the Millers both claim before the Cop ever does.

Well, now, knowing that he was the last remaining cop, this whole discussion makes more sense. Dead!Crazy, I'm sorry I found you scummy for just doing your job.

Also, you may have notice that I use a lot of qualifiers in my speech. I'm sorry if this makes you tear your hair out, Crazy.

Your posts don't bother me. It's not literally about the words, rather about the ideas conveyed.

This is the only post of Crazy's I found that even comes close to what could be called breadcrumbing. (I think. I'm not really so good at taking hints. Until they're applied with a sledgehammer.)

PBPA on SD coming right up.

[Shattered Viewpoint]

On review, yes, I guess I was mainly blinded by SD's attacking of me. He had some good points. Forthwith, some things pointed out by SD that bear further review:

Hi.

Crazy is my first town read.

This. Is. Scummy. Your first post in the game, no reasoning,

and you're right.

Explain, please. Or can't you? (I shall take this opportunity to state my read on you. I think you're scum.)

I would be very surprised if Crazy flipped scum.

I want to see a post from Shattered Viewpoint right now.

One of {Migwelloni, Johnny Rotten} is probably scum. Probably not both though.

It had been less than 18 hours since my last post. Why the urgency? Why me, specifically?

I'm not liking Albatross right now.

[McGriddle]

On review, yes, I guess I was mainly blinded by SD's attacking of me. He had some good points. Forthwith, some things pointed out by SD that bear further review:

Hi.

Crazy is my first town read.

This. Is. Scummy. Your first post in the game, no reasoning,

and you're right.

Explain, please. Or can't you? (I shall take this opportunity to state my read on you. I think you're scum.)

I would be very surprised if Crazy flipped scum.

I want to see a post from Shattered Viewpoint right now.

One of {Migwelloni, Johnny Rotten} is probably scum. Probably not both though.

It had been less than 18 hours since my last post. Why the urgency? Why me, specifically?

I'm not liking Albatross right now.

This and [/Wow] Pretty good coverage.

[Johnny Rotten]

Okay, am I just being a dunce? What is [/Wow]?

[Shattered Viewpoint]

I don't know either. Unless I really impressed him....

[McGriddle]

Lol it's a joke like at the end of each tag you press EX: [/quote] I [/Wow]'d it because you have a very good point that I missed which (Not to be cocky or anything) is not easy to do.

[Excedrin]

Vote Count

not voting: Albatross, Johnny Rotten, smashbro_of_the_SSS, jmj3000, Alduskkel, DizzyIzzyB13, MehPlusRawr, Shattered Viewpoint, McGriddle

Day 2 Deadline

[Shattered Viewpoint]

I wonder how long it will take for people to wander back in.

[Johnny Rotten]

Lol it's a joke like at the end of each tag you press EX:

I [/Wow]'d it because you have a very good point that I missed which (Not to be cocky or anything) is not easy to do.[/quote]




Still don't get it.......

Anyway, without any night actions we are kinda stuck with a random lynch-fest where we hope to get scum. Anyone got a good scum read from yesterday?

[Excedrin]

I'll prod everyone who's alive, I assume other people are having problems getting back to the forums. I'll update VC soon, but I think nobody's voting.

[McGriddle]

Sorry guys, I've been wandering around looking for the game :/

[MehPlusRawr]

Hi guys, forgot about this game after the downtime. *bookmark*

[smashbro_of_the_SSS]

Yeah, same here. I got a message in spanish, I assume its a prod post. I'll read over this on Sunday probably, since I'm busy tomorrow, and have things to do tonight.

[Albatross]

Blah. Will post tomorrow.

[jmj3000]

Mod: Having problems at home. Please replace me, as my focus must be elsewhere.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

My activity is going to be limited for a while on account of the fact that I can't stay on teh forums for long before the hideous new skin starts giving me a migraine. Hopefully, a new one will be up soon...

[Johnny Rotten]

Well, seems like this game hit the shits real fucking fast.

[Alduskkel]

I'm surprised that SV doesn't have more to say about SD's big post.

Obviously I forgot about this game; sorry. I'm going to try to reread today.

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Update: Still stuck with hideous migraine inducing skin, so I can't catch up.

[Alduskkel]

Hi guys, forgot about this game after the downtime. *bookmark*

2 days ago...

Yeah, same here. I got a message in spanish, I assume its a prod post. I'll read over this on Sunday probably, since I'm busy tomorrow, and have things to do tonight.

Sunday is over...

Blah. Will post tomorrow.

2 days ago as well...

Well, seems like this game hit the shits real fucking fast.

No excuses but still free of content...

I'm going to try to reread today.

Didn't reread today...

Update: Still stuck with hideous migraine inducing skin, so I can't catch up.

Has really weak eyes that can't stand shades of blue...

...

Uses ellipses too much in this post...

All around a fail. Not to mention that half of this Day has already been squandered.

[Alduskkel]

I'm of the opinion that Shadow Dancer seems town, and I'm finding his case against Albatross to be the most convincing made so far.

Why?

You never answered this, Dizzy.

Also I apparently promised to reread on Day 1 too, but that didn't happen because Moving Day happened. Still pretty lame of me.

[McGriddle]

@mod: Are you still around? can we get a mass prod?