Mini 983: It Got Worse (GAME OVER)

[Nikanor]

Oh hi.

Unvote. Vote: SpyreX.

Spy isn't scumhunting. That's unlike him. I also get bad gut vibes from him.
I support the Amished and SK wagons and might hop on the bigger one later.

FoS: RedCoyote.

@MOD: To whom have you lied so far in this game?

[SpyreX]

Whaaa did you LOOK at 366 man. I dont think I need to explain the minutae of why that and Amished's little dance are both suspicious AND why they don't make sense together come on now

[Nikanor]

Spy, I'll most likely be voting for SK once the mod comes along for a vote count. Don't worry.

[SpyreX]

Pffffttt not scumhunting when they hand themselves over I swear good sir

[SocioPath]

Spy, why is SK's opinion of you so fake?
Is there something you aren't telling us?

[SpyreX]

I can't even begin to answer why the hell his opinion is fake (and it sure seems to be) UNLESS its the setup move thus discussed.

[SocioPath]

(Pssst, it might be because you are scum.)

[SpyreX]

(Psssst I'm not so thats not a reason)

[Nikanor]

(Pssst why are you guys whispering?)

[SpyreX]

(Psssst Its foreplay before the shouting)

[Nikanor]

Oh jeez.

[RedCoyote]

Because I'm more suspicious of the fools that follow the wagon than the fool that started it. SP had bad reasoning, and you pretty much went "/agrees with everything, vote" with nothing original to contribute. Why can't this be scum being lazy and piggybacking off of someone else's argument?

Because I agreed with it and there was really no sense repeating it over again. Nikanor was straight up contradicting himself to please someone (I think it was SPS? I'd have to go back and check), but it turned out that both SP and I read Nikanor's comment out of context a little bit. It happens. Otherwise I didn't really see anything I wanted to comment on, which is a testament to the player list that the Mod managed to put together. I still don't really see too many sketchy things out there with the exception of Amish's erratic behavior and possibly your using unreasonable arguments to justify your positions.

You need to post enough, and give enough content in the posts, to make me think you aren't trying to activelurk. (And I'm not telling you exactly what I think is acceptable. That would be anti-town of me.)

If a post a day isn't good enough for you, then that's unreasonable. I do not usually have the luxury of checking this forum multiple times a day.

I do, however, take solace in the fact that your needlessly (and possibly perniciously) inflated "activity requirements" of me are largely and rightfully being looked upon with skepticism and indifference by the majority of people here.

How is your reasons for going after SPS different from Amished's?

Like I said when I voted, I don't really get what value he's bringing to the game with it. Maybe it was just tongue-in-cheek, but why Llama? It just seemed kind of out of the blue.

I've played with SPS a couple times and I don't recall him ever doing something like this so it was out of character for him. Besides, what possible reactions would a protect actually garner? Did he expect scum to come out and say "oooo, I guess we can't kill him now, can we?"? I don't think so. The claim doesn't make sense for "lolreactions" nor does lying about it in the first place, nor does it fit my perception of SPS-town.

Major differences.

Note to Magnus: Please learn to read the thread before making accusations about me that aren't true. Thank you.

Why is this worthy of a vote? If anything, magnus and Llama seem like the most conservative players in the game so far. I don't get the idea that he's attempting to falsely accuse you of anything. It looked to me like he was just trying to have a discussion with you.

---

For clarities sake, this is you saying Nik is neutral read?

Yeah, I don't have a problem with Nikanor at the moment (well, until post 377 at least).

What was your thought process on the whole SPS thing? It seems like you thought he was scum but changed that opinion at some wierd time, and are saying that the ones who say you wanted him lynched are lying about that. I didnt read that vote of yours (and two subsequent comments on reasoning) as pressure, so where did this change of heart occur?

I didn't really "change my opinion at some weird time", there was just a substantial gap between one day and the next (as you noted earlier) which I feel between. I never had any intention on lynching SPS, I only thought it was odd why he chose you specifically to "dayprotect". When he decided to attach himself to you (having been largely a non-factor in the game at that point to me), that's necessarily suspicious to me. Amish chose to continue to pursue SPS, but I didn't. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't come up with an angle to back up any reasonable wagon on SPS. I simply unvoted SPS because what I had was admittedly weak to begin with and Amish is a much better candidate for scum.

And, as an important reminder, I wasn't voting anyone when I voted SPS.

---

Spy, I'll most likely be voting for SK once the mod comes along for a vote count. Don't worry.

Huh? So is Spyrex scummy or not?

---

Someone explain to me this "FoS" nonsense, because I think the Mod has all y'all on a wild goose chase with this. Is someone supposed to get an investigation or something?

[Amished]

SK: As I understand it, these are the issues:
Reasons for your vote for RC: not posting, in the background, being ignored... etc.
Reasons for you fos of me: goading the Amished wagon from the background
Reasons for your neutral (or is it town now?) read of spyreX: not posting, in the background, being ignored, goading the Amished wagon from the background.

This makes it seem like spyreX is receiving special treatment from you. Is he? if so, why? If not, why not?

And: SpyreX didn't start the wagon. How does this affect your read of spyreX? Why?

What? When and where has SpyreX goad from the background? Spyre was on the "wagon" before this whole situation came up. This whole post is bullshit and you know it MO.

@Llama: I guess I can see that line of thought, but it's just a stretch for me to even think about faking a day action when it's not really necessary. Lying like that never crosses my mind as town which is why I thought it was so suspicious. Then with the "lolreations" comment for justification instead of your actually reasonable explaination it made it that much worse.

@RC: We don't know what FoS's will do, but it won't end the day so it's worth it to test it out.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Magnus:

To even further clarify: I believe I already stated that I'm having a hell of a time reading Spyrex, which is a major reason why he's in my neutral category. If there was something I'd read that would've tilted the scales significantly one way or the other, I would not have made him a neutral. It's something that seems rather obvious to me, at least given the number of times I've had to explain it.

accusation? I was saying you were failing to address the issue at hand twice in that post.

"Accusation" might've been too strong a word, but nothing else came to mind at the time. I was also fairly ticked off that you keep saying I'm not answering that question, when I have

already

answered it (and even quoted the answer I gave).

What points don't exist?


Will you at least finish answering my questions so you don't come off as though you panicked and voted me because you couldn't?

I already answered both of the questions you brought up, which makes it seem like to me that this isn't genuine scumhunting, but going after a target of opportunity. The fact that I feel you were also doing this to Amished gives me more than a pause, and since a FoS didn't seem to convey my displeasure with your behavior, I decided to switch to a vote.

@ LlamaFluff: You stated that you agreed with the SPS wagon more than the Amished wagon, and say RC just happened to not be active at the right time, but then you voted for RC in the same post, without any reasoning I could see. You did later post some questions for RC, but why did you vote for him in that earlier post?

@ Spyrex: Why is Amished now town? Why am I now scum?

[magnus_orion]

SK: As I understand it, these are the issues:
Reasons for your vote for RC: not posting, in the background, being ignored... etc.
Reasons for you fos of me: goading the Amished wagon from the background
Reasons for your neutral (or is it town now?) read of spyreX: not posting, in the background, being ignored, goading the Amished wagon from the background.

This makes it seem like spyreX is receiving special treatment from you. Is he? if so, why? If not, why not?

And: SpyreX didn't start the wagon. How does this affect your read of spyreX? Why?

What? When and where has SpyreX goad from the background? Spyre was on the "wagon" before this whole situation came up. This whole post is bullshit and you know it MO.

@Llama: I guess I can see that line of thought, but it's just a stretch for me to even think about faking a day action when it's not really necessary. Lying like that never crosses my mind as town which is why I thought it was so suspicious. Then with the "lolreations" comment for justification instead of your actually reasonable explaination it made it that much worse.

@RC: We don't know what FoS's will do, but it won't end the day so it's worth it to test it out.

Its based on why SK said, not what I said.

Forgot Spyrex was voting Amished too. My mind doesn't know what the hell to make of Spyrex, but he seems to have been fairly quiet, although he did start the Amished wagon. Going neutral for now.

"SpyreX has been quiet, but he started the Amished wagon."
=> Goading from the background

also, the whole post can't be dismissed based on one point. Its a collection of what I believe to be the case being made against SK. I haven't even stated whether I support or deny the case. I'm trying to rebuild it so as to clarify the positions involved, because they are confusing me.

To even further clarify: I believe I already stated that I'm having a hell of a time reading Spyrex, which is a major reason why he's in my neutral category. If there was something I'd read that would've tilted the scales significantly one way or the other, I would not have made him a neutral. It's something that seems rather obvious to me, at least given the number of times I've had to explain it.

Then why is spyreX unique among the people who were (at the time, in your view), involved in the wagon?

"Accusation" might've been too strong a word, but nothing else came to mind at the time. I was also fairly ticked off that you keep saying I'm not answering that question, when I have already answered it (and even quoted the answer I gave).

Let me clarify what I'm doing, because by virtue of doing it, I'm going to make you repeat yourself. I apologize, but by doing so, it can make points more apparent and easier to understand. Sometimes people are misunderstood, which could lead to false accusations and a huge argument in thread where both parties have a valid interpretation of words that have been stated, but one interpretation makes an individual scum and one makes him town. Minimizing the confusion helps me get more accurate reads. By engaging you in a back and forth point-counterpoint asking you to explain yourself clearly and throughly, it helps to accomplish this goal.
Thus, when I first asked you questions in that post (363), I intended that, and the following, to be a self contained conversation which wouldn't rely on referring back to what you've already said, because it had the potential to be misinterpreted when you said it. Thus I would be able to clarify a point of confusion when you brought it up, and thus avoid having us both proceed under the fallacious assumption that we are acting whilst clearly understanding each other, when in reality we are not in agreement as to what was meant.

I already answered both of the questions you brought up, which makes it seem like to me that this isn't genuine scumhunting, but going after a target of opportunity. The fact that I feel you were also doing this to Amished gives me more than a pause, and since a FoS didn't seem to convey my displeasure with your behavior, I decided to switch to a vote.

I explained what I'm doing above. I did do the same thing for Amished, and you can expect me to do it more.
Basically, I believe people can be misunderstood and make mistakes in how they say things. Although I realize this is both a wild and dangerous assumption, I am faithful in it, and thus feel that further clarification of points is useful.

(also, more of a technical point, if something caused you to do something, it wouldn't "give you pause", more likely it "spurred you to action" in some form or another. However, these types of mis-used phrases are an example of one type of area where I believe confusion could arise. That isn't to say all confusion results from such mistakes however.)

[LlamaFluff]

@ LlamaFluff: You stated that you agreed with the SPS wagon more than the Amished wagon, and say RC just happened to not be active at the right time, but then you voted for RC in the same post, without any reasoning I could see. You did later post some questions for RC, but why did you vote for him in that earlier post?

Use of 'he' was refering to RC and not SPS there. Also why does it matter that I voted RC a full 15 minutes before I made my case? I had decided on who I was voting at that point, I just had to make my case and wanted it to be obvious where my vote was going if something happened to tie up my time.

[SocioPath]

magnus_orion - Lawyer Of The Bandwagons:
Find Him A Wagon And He Shall Fight For Their Rights!

[Amished]

@mo: then your understanding isn't based on what you can also read. While true that Spyre wasn't the first to vote for me (IIRC SP was); Spyre started a "wagon" insofar as you can't have a wagon of only 1. Therefore, being on the wagon before the day-protect thing that exploded this thread isn't really goading on the wagon as Spyre said he would be all over SPS for the "lolreactions" thing essentially except that he wanted to see where pressure on me was going to lead to. That's not goading from the background and it's a point that you seem to have fabricated out of the blue, since I didn't really see SK saying that at all.

[magnus_orion]

@mo: then your understanding isn't based on what you can also read. While true that Spyre wasn't the first to vote for me (IIRC SP was); Spyre started a "wagon" insofar as you can't have a wagon of only 1. Therefore, being on the wagon before the day-protect thing that exploded this thread isn't really goading on the wagon as Spyre said he would be all over SPS for the "lolreactions" thing essentially except that he wanted to see where pressure on me was going to lead to. That's not goading from the background and it's a point that you seem to have fabricated out of the blue, since I didn't really see SK saying that at all.

Pretty much, yes. But that's where the whole confused, doesn't know what's going on, trying to clarify bit comes in. Is this a satisfactory answer to sociopath, or was he getting at something else entirely? I don't know.

Because that would've been an answer to this:

How is the way in which the other two people did things different from how spyreX did them, and why is it more scummy?

[RedCoyote]

I'm leaving town for the weekend.

[sykedoc]

Broadcast: If the mod were to be lynched would that remove you from the game?

If you're referring to me, no. It wouldn't be to your benefit for me to leave anyway.

To whom have you lied so far in this game?

Wasn't sure who you wanted to ask so I figured I'd answer. I have lied to many people. Ehhh maybe like 1/4 of the players.

I'm leaving town for the weekend.

Noted.

Vote count on the way when I get off my ass.

[SpyreX]

That statement being neutral is a load of lies and pretty obvious at that.

Hi my name is loaded read how are you today.

[LlamaFluff]

What was your thought process on the whole SPS thing? It seems like you thought he was scum but changed that opinion at some wierd time, and are saying that the ones who say you wanted him lynched are lying about that. I didnt read that vote of yours (and two subsequent comments on reasoning) as pressure, so where did this change of heart occur?

I didn't really "change my opinion at some weird time", there was just a substantial gap between one day and the next (as you noted earlier) which I feel between.

I never had any intention on lynching SPS

, I only thought it was odd why he chose you specifically to "dayprotect". When he decided to attach himself to you (having been largely a non-factor in the game at that point to me),

that's necessarily suspicious to me

.

Im thinking you forgot a 'not' but if this is right can you explain the difference between the two a little to me. At least at what level of suspicion SPS actually reached.

Someone explain to me this "FoS" nonsense, because I think the Mod has all y'all on a wild goose chase with this. Is someone supposed to get an investigation or something?

Its something worth seeing if it does anything

@Alpha - Yes, that was what I was refering to. Good to know. Would you be able to answer if there is the possibility of being lied to in my role?

I would be able to answer.

[Nikanor]

Wasn't sure who you wanted to ask so I figured I'd answer. I have lied to many people. Ehhh maybe like 1/4 of the players.

You didn't answer my question. I asked "to whom", not "how many".
Anyway, I'd like for Alpha to answer the question, since he was the one who promised to answer a question from each player.

I'm not the best source for your question. 1/4 is the most likely answer either way.

[UncertainKitten]

K, so, while I see the game moving along, I actually feel completely fried trying to read you all. I'm not finding anything new to change my reads, but I'm not sure if that's being overcome by words or just nothing has happened despite the pretty walls.

What's the cliff's notes I should know of my day of absence?

Real players don't use cliff's notes! YAR HAR!