Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Mighty Orbots]

@DTMaster, clearly uninformed Minority doesn't mean informed about everything. I never came close to claiming that it did. Thank you for the lovely misrepresentation though. If we've got even 2 gods from different pantheons in the scum team then they've got more information about what the worship does than the rest of us. I don't think that it's at all unlikely that this is the case. Do you have a reason to think that it is?

Fear of the unknown (and lack of control) is exactly why we should expect scum to be using their worship votes though. If they have any information (which, again, they probably do) then they want to use it to put themselves in the best position they know of.

I'm clearly using the worship percents. I'm the one who came up with the 44 as a minimum number of worship votes we're dealing with. That doesn't mean that town would be any more likely to have voted for any particular worship on day one or that scum would have been any less likely.

Nothing I've done or said implies that I know the alignments of Manho, Nikanor, Parama, Dramonic, SaintKerrigan, CryMeARiver, ortolan, Albert B. Rampage or anyone else or how worship works. How the hell do you get that from anywhere other than your ass? This is the sort of distraction I'm talking about. Completely unreasonable assertions that don't match what's happened in the thread at all.

Anther two examples that are particularly easily accessible would be your insistance that I called SaintKerrigan scum when I did no such thing and your apparent ignorance of your Tarhalidur's being targeted for a night kill. If you were following the thread like I know you could and like you should be you shouldn't be having any of those issues. Instead we're having to put up and correct the crap that you're spewing.

Like I said, right now with the information that I have about the game it makes much more sense to assume that you're town because of the claims that we've got. If it weren't for that you'd be very high on my list of suspects.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Iecerint]

Iec is AGAINST mass god claim? Huh imagine that.

Is your implication that it is scummy to be against everyone claiming what appear to all be power roles? Why do you think that?

OH HAI SOCRATES. Yeah I agree on Iec, its just that there are better targets right now.

Is this Alba? Make it clearer which player slot this means.

I'd have to see a vote count but I don't think my dram wagon has any speed on it.

I joined it.

I dislike the wagon on TNM.

[Fate]

TROLL I JUST CALLED YOU TOWN AGAIN ISN'T MY BUDDYING MAKING YOU UNCOMFORTABLE?

DON'T IGNORE ME.

@Iec: I stopped reading your posts a long time ago, so please don't address me. But yeah, not wanting who we should worship out the open ESPECIALLY with multiple "Save your ass" roles flying around is anti-town.

[Iecerint]

I like part of this post so much so I have to repost it:

Unvote. Vote: totallynotmafia.

Snow_Bunny is jester serial killer. tnm is mafia.

Also, I'm inclined to say that if something makes no sense as either alignment, it's probable that the person in question is hiding something that makes the action make sense.

I totally agree with the bolded. But I don't see what it has to do with the rest of your post.

[DTMaster]

@Fate
Shush, you're spoiling my master trap you fucking tard. (Sorry you're not a tard)

@MO
1.

DTMaster, clearly uninformed Minority doesn't mean informed about everything. I never came close to claiming that it did. Thank you for the lovely misrepresentation though. If we've got even 2 gods from different pantheons in the scum team then they've got more information about what the worship does than the rest of us. I don't think that it's at all unlikely that this is the case. Do you have a reason to think that it is?

1. Yes you implied it in the number 2. Especially in coordination of worship vote actions.

2. Yes it is possible we have gods as scum, and yes it is possible that scum has knowledge of what each faction does. But that doesn't mean my theory isn't less valid as below. In fact I'd expect more arguments in thread about specific factions to worship. The only one who expressed this was people within their own factions (ie Spy) and people who are leading the worships (ie ABR).

It's premature, but the whole follow the ABR and follow the Spy works better as a sheep move by scum to follow the town crowd over scum focusing more on trying to get certain factions worshiped. That's how I see it.

3.

Fear of the unknown (and lack of control) is exactly why we should expect scum to be using their worship votes though.

If they have any information (which, again, they probably do) then they want to use it to put themselves in the best position they know of.

Oh hell no, you've just applied information gathering as scummy. If scum players don't know the deity powers, they are in better position to

shut down the deities

with that kind of logic, rather then

influence the deity powers

Your mass claiming idea accomplishes the above faster, and when I apply your argument in bold it works the same way. The only difference is, I have a reaction log between each god. You've got a log of a clump of votes each day. The end goal is the same. The method is different.

4. You are calling me out on being wrong. You are not simply disagreeing with me, you absolutely called me out on being wrong. See here:

As for your posts, the things that I don't like them are the details that you're getting wrong. I've been pointing them out as we go. You've been at least as much a distraction this game as you've been useful (though I'll admit that this has lessened recently.)

Yes some things I got wrong, ie you and SK.

But what about my full cases all game? Hmm? I don't see the crtisism on that. Are those wrong too? Are some details off there? That's where I see things.

5. I has a sekret. I don't use note pad when I post. Plus if you noticed, I haven't been rereading properly lately due to the lack of time. I have a list of points I need to reread. It's accumulated over 2 days now.

[Mighty Orbots]

@Fate, you're not currently worth my attention. You being the first to support my divinity claim so far as I can tell is noted with some small amount of suspicion (though only a small amount as I do think it's a good idea.) The buddying in the form of calling something a town-town conflict isn't much of a flag given what I think people other than myself should be seeing in the thread. Calling me good at reading alignments might be an issue but we'll see if you try to flatter me down the road or not.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[DTMaster]

@Fuck

I mean Ice. I donno, but I don't like your recent post. It's off. Right from the surface. Like chipped paint.

[Iecerint]

Uh, if you're not reading my posts, why are you weakly championing my lynch?

If you read my posts, you'd know that assuming balanced god factions will imply ideal town worship without outing a bunch of roles and having scum inject noise to mess us up. You make it sound like there is no alternate plan.

We've had at least 2 players claim to be OMG SO BROKEN when they get worship. (Granted, one was exploded or something by SB.) So I mean.

[Fate]

TROLL YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT SO MANY THINGS IN [ON GOING GAME] THAT YOU REPLACED OUT OF I FELL IN LOVE, THAT"S ALL.

SO YOU PROPOSED A DIVINITY CLAIM TO GAUGE REACTIONS AND PEOPLE THAT ARE FOR IT ARE SUSPICIOUS HUH? I SEE.

ALSO DO YOU HAVE YOUR SIGNATURE COPY+PASTED FOR WHEN YOU POST IN GAMES OR ARE YOU JUST AWESOME?

[Iecerint]

@ DTM, which and what are you talking about?

[DTMaster]

@Ice
Fuck. It's a flag in the subconscious of my brain. Basically since I can't put my finger on it, its a cue for me to reread that conversation that Nikanor had with S_B. and your Iso.

[DTMaster]

EBWOP, by fucking your mother.

@Ice I didn't answer your question, the question you addressed to Nikanor.

[Mighty Orbots]

@Fate, no I proposed the divinity claim because I think it's the right move. I'm just inherently suspicious of people agreeing with me in games of mafia.

@DTMaster, you'll have to clear up how I'm implying that the uninformed minority has full information in the number 2 as that makes no sense without context.

Your theory that scum would be less likely to vote is less valid because it assumes that scum lack information which we've got no reason to assume. Trying to spin the scum as a group of cowards who are afraid to act is unreasonable and yet you seem to be pushing it fairly hard for some reason.

Information gathering isn't scummy. Having information ahead of time about multiple pantheons is absolutely scummy. There's really no way you wouldn't be able to see that. My mass divinity claim idea helps give the town access to information that lets them make informed decisions and probably makes it harder for scum to push us towards worshiping a pantheon that helps them. Watching the town make an informed decision will give us much more information than watching us make stabs in the dark.

I am calling you out on being wrong about details, yes. How did you go from that to some sort of implication that I had information about alignments? For many of your cases I don't know whether you're pursuing scum or not. I do know that the things that you're pursuing often don't match what's actually happened in the thread. Not taking careful notes is no excuse for promoting incorrect information. If you're going to express opinions strongly then I'm absolutely justified in calling it scummy when the basis that you're using for them isn't sound.

Seriously, shape up here. You could help the town if you tried rather than giving us what you're giving at this point.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[BlazezRb]

Your theory that scum would be less likely to vote is less valid because it assumes that scum lack information which we've got no reason to assume. Trying to spin the scum as a group of cowards who are afraid to act is unreasonable and yet you seem to be pushing it fairly hard for some reason.

Seem to be hiding something, eh?

TROLL YOU WERE RIGHT ABOUT SO MANY THINGS IN [ON GOING GAME] THAT YOU REPLACED OUT OF I FELL IN LOVE, THAT"S ALL.

SO YOU PROPOSED A DIVINITY CLAIM TO GAUGE REACTIONS AND PEOPLE THAT ARE FOR IT ARE SUSPICIOUS HUH? I SEE.

ALSO DO YOU HAVE YOUR SIGNATURE COPY+PASTED FOR WHEN YOU POST IN GAMES OR ARE YOU JUST AWESOME?

inb4capitalrage

@Fuck

I mean Ice. I donno, but I don't like your recent post. It's off. Right from the surface. Like chipped paint.

I don't see why.

Yes it is possible we have gods as scum

Is it possible? Honestly I can't think of any "evil" gods. (Set and Hades). Possibly there could be the titans or something.

[DTMaster]

@MO
Fuck. I'm telling you of a game

where I played and scum was afraid to use in game mechanics, aka I experienced a fucking game where scum were cowards.

Bloody go to my wiki. Read Universe Mafia A and B. Scum did not want to use teleportation between games because they thought it was "anti town" to separate people. Town used it to win in Universe B, and almost win in Universe A. Like HOW MUCH DO I NEED TO REPEAT IN YOUR THICK SKULL TO SAY:

I EXPERIENCED SCUM BEHAVING LIKE THIS IN OTHER GAMES SO I"M FUCKING EXTRAPOLATING THIS TO THIS GAME /rage

K, slightly cooled down.

2.

Information gathering isn't scummy.

Having information ahead of time about multiple pantheons is absolutely scummy There's really no way you wouldn't be able to see that.

My mass divinity claim idea helps give the town access to information that lets them make informed decisions and probably makes it harder for scum to push us towards worshiping a pantheon that helps them. Watching the town make an informed decision will give us much more information than watching us make stabs in the dark.

Actually, after mulling it over, stabbing in the dark is a better trap of finding the bolded, over your mass claim, don't you think? If scum already has a preconcieved position of who they want to vote, it'll be seen better with the random worships.

Now, if you are berating me about my quality of my posts, might I say that your excessive tunneling on a "townie read" is a giant smoke screen. Your arguments are sound. But why you're extensively just focusing on me, isn't. It's takes you away from commenting on other players.

Your insistence on me being a distraction is weird. It's like saying, oh look a shiny thing that doesn't have anything to do with the game. DTM is doing that, that's anti town. I'll do the same and focus on that shiny distraction while ignoring that I'm not scum hunting.

I think I figure out why this is fucking bothering me. Why are you tunneling on the guy who you think it's a distraction? It's like, ironic in the wrong sense.

[Iecerint]

He's focusing on you for the same reason that I focused on you D1 (i.e. you are asking him things, he is responding, you are asking more things, etc).

^ My take on that bit.

[DTMaster]

V.V. Fuck. I really need to reread, but first I need to cool down. I'm going to note pad this and reread all 50 pages starting from page 1. Yes. I am rereading the game. I'll redo an analysis from fresh because something is off here.

[Mighty Orbots]

@DTMaster, I think that you should have the potential to be an asset to the town and I want you to be actually doing useful things as you're as large a presence as you've been. I'd like to think my faith in you isn't misplaced. At this point I plan to keep berating you about it until you stop with your shitty play. Improving your play should be worth the effort that I'm putting into it in the long run.

One game of scum cowards doesn't make for a good set of expectations. You're also still assuming that scum lack information here which makes zero sense. You should really stop being a fucking idiot about this and dwelling in a stupidly small sample of experiences.

I think that relying on scum being wrong about their assumptions when I don't know what information they have access to is a much worse plan than actually trying to get the town enough information to make good assumptions. I'm not interested in trying to win by scum playing poorly when I've got the option of wining via the town playing well instead.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Katy]

Don't like this statement. It's pretty much about scum going after people for something that looks town, but actually isn't a valid case. In this, Katy is narrowly defining a "reason" why townies should vote, and then attacking anyone who doesn't fit that definition.

Ugh this was brought up yesterday too, and I was unable to address it before day ended, so I will address it now. I am not trying to dictate how people should vote, but I happen to think that the reasons people give for their vote ARE helpful in figuring out alignment.

Town players are genuinely looking for scum, so when they vote for someone, it is usually because they legitimately think they are scummy for some reason or another, even if they are wrong or even if it's poor reasoning. Scum players, on the other hand, have to manufacture reasons to vote for town players.

So if someone is consistently voting for reasons that don't seem to have a lot of thought behind them or don't make any case for being scum, then it makes my scum radar go off. Yesterday Nikanor had voted first for the "secret information" reason and later he admittedly changed his vote just to change to the person with the most votes.

So yeah, I get kind of suspicious of someone who votes multiple people without having an articulate case for thinking they are scummy.

@MO:

Fair enough, I get what you are saying. I acknowledge that there are times when being too close with information hurts town. I am just worried because this game set-up is not straightforward some things are giving me pause. For example, we do not yet know what the mafia actually is - what if scum is a group of mortals who want to kill gods? But even more worrisome is the cult. Laying out all the powers could allow them to quickly get some powerful gods on their side, which could be pretty bad.

That said, I'll keep an open mind and if there's a workable plan that is agreed on, I will go with it.

[manho]

@MO, how many gods do you think is town-aligned? and how many gods are scum-aligned?

if we claim god faction, it will be beneficial to town if the ratio of town-aligned gods to gods in total is high, but beneficial to scum if otherwise.

i would suggest a god who thinks his buffed power is game-changing to claim though.

[Faraday]

TOWN:
2. Faraday
3. ABR
27. FlipScythe (replaces Ortolan)
9. Mighty Orbots
10. Parama
6. chronopie
7. Fate
17. Nikanor
20. Katy
14. Vasuveda
24. rajrhcpfreak

SNOW BUNNY:
16. Snow_Bunny

NOT TOWN BUT TOWN:
Tar
28. DTMaster

IDK LOL
Blazebrb (this guy reads kinda newish town for some reason but Starbuck was a scum read so IDK)
22. Percy (hasn't really posted a lot at all)

NOT TOWN
4. manho
5. dramonic
11. Plum
12. totallynotmafia
15. DarkStalker
23. Albatross (replaces Kairyuu)
25. CryMeARiver
26. Iecerint
8.Ooba


I believe Katy's claim which makes Ortoscythe town. VV's claim reads legit from the way it came about. Hmm there may be a few more town on my NON TOWN list but I need to read a bit more. I added in whatever replacements I happened to remember off hand.

Town list are based on reads and/or claims. Chronopie's claim stinks of him as town, gut town read on the rest too.

Snow_Bunny's probably a vig, but that was a really bad vig shot. Like seriously. I'm curious as to why she claimed then berated Chronopie for claiming prematurely though?

Cmar lost his immunity but still can't be lynched? How many unlynchables is there in da game man. Ooba's flip flop on his reads worries me, nice catch there by dram I'd like to see his thought process as to what happened/why they changed.

The whole LOL LET'S MOURN SPYREX thing is lovely and all but can we get over it, so he was killed no need to become depressed and stop caring about the game.

Someone vig everyone on my not town list hey ho.

[Snow_Bunny]

Snow_Bunny is jester serial killer.

Crap. My disguise has been foiled!

[dramonic]

ANy reason for those opinions, Faraday?

also, V/LA for the weekend.

[dramonic]

EBWOP

V/LA for the weekend

[Snow_Bunny]

TOWN:
2. Faraday
3. ABR
27. FlipScythe (replaces Ortolan)
9. Mighty Orbots
10. Parama
6. chronopie
7. Fate
17. Nikanor
20. Katy
14. Vasuveda
24. rajrhcpfreak

SNOW BUNNY:
16. Snow_Bunny

NOT TOWN BUT TOWN:
Tar
28. DTMaster

IDK LOL
Blazebrb (this guy reads kinda newish town for some reason but Starbuck was a scum read so IDK)
22. Percy (hasn't really posted a lot at all)

NOT TOWN
4. manho
5. dramonic
11. Plum
12. totallynotmafia
15. DarkStalker
23. Albatross (replaces Kairyuu)
25. CryMeARiver
26. Iecerint
8.Ooba


Snow_Bunny's probably a vig, but that was a really bad vig shot. Like seriously. I'm curious as to why she claimed then berated Chronopie for claiming prematurely though?

Well, from my PoV, town losing a vig isn't as bad as town losing a reviver. Or, do you think it's on the same level? And, I claimed because I wanted to leave clear that I was the one responsible for his death (really, I've seen many times how town ask the vig, if any, to out himself at D2 after a multiple kill night.) In the other hand, why did Chrono claimed?