Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[VasudeVa]

I see no problems with Chrono's little gambit. If he's telling the truth, we get to revive 1 dude. If not, he's lying scum(still, we can't lynch him on that day otherwise I'll be dead! We lynch him another day.).

The thing is, though, we need to wait for the flips. That said, I think SpyreX is a safe revive.

--

Something that totally slipped my mind(especially when I claimed), what do you guys think of a possibility of a roleblocker? (although, pretty sure there's a doc floating around there somewhere~ *cough cough*)

[Iecerint]

Based on his questions about remaining unburied, I'd bet he can only revive players who are yet to have their alignment flipped. SX will have already flipped by the time Egypt gets worship. This is assuming that flipping puts you in the graveyard.

The probability of some kind of roleblocker is very high.

[Mighty Orbots]

I agree with Iecerint that even if we do activate a reviver tomorrow it's somewhat likely to be too late to help either SpyreX or SaintKerrigan. In many ways this would be more important to know for future deaths.

@Iecerint, we're still early in a large game but it seems pretty clear that we're a high powered town in this case. A divine claim along with powers allows us to choose the situation that we're going to be working with much more carefully than if we simply rely on balance for the worship choice. In general the more powers a town has the more likely they are to get in eachother's ways if uncoordinated (and the first night's claimed kills which, if everyone involved is telling the truth, have probably lost us two pro-town gods to town motivated actions are a fine example of that.) I'm guessing that there's going to be way too much power the town can bring to bear this game for the mafia to shut us down effectively if we can coordinate.

Having said that, it's not my call to make on my own which is why we should be talking about it now.

@DTMaster, good call on the remembering that Beholder explicitly told us that worship votes not used would be lost. I'd remembered that he said we could choose not to use them but that one slipped my mind. As I said before Mighty Orbots did not submit a worship vote on day one. I'd be slightly surprised if we were the only one to make that choice. Unless the extra worship Maho gets is more significant that I suspect we probably don't have the 12 gods with one vote, 16 men with two numbers quite right.

@VasudeVa, I think that there's no reason to think that there shouldn't be roleblockers or other abilities out there that can disrupt your ability in the hands of scum. I also think that there's a good chance that the town has access to some counter measures which will be more useful if we've got a better idea where to point them.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Albatross]

Alba 1049 - You pursued an Ice case so passionately yesterday. Why did you stop if you think Ice was scum? You kinda let the town move on it's own and you're flying under the radar. I can't reread you: but this quote shows how poorly your play is today. I'd totally shoot you.

My poor play today? I haven't been on site for the past few days.

I'll tell you why I've stopped caring. Day 1 ended up in a no lynch, the most protown player in this game gets shot, every single post in this game seems to be a novel and I don't think a single person even read my arguments about why I thought Iec is scum. Why the fuck should I get off my ass and passionately pursue an Iec case when nobody is even going to dignify me with a response? Besides, have you ever heard of the theory that in games this large every player going full throttle at each others throat only serves to distract and fracture the town?

Spyrex was the most obvious townie I have seen in a long time.

Can't be assed to care about this game right now. Someone tell me who to vote.

For example I'll contrast this post with this one down here:

@ Alba -- my point is that I wouldn't want 2 people to rush into town with I HERD YR LYNCHIN O HERE YE GO. So I said that.

Did you ever explain why O-town makes me scum?

'cause I think you're scum, and a town Ort would fit with what I think your strategy is as scum. I said this earlier.

At this point I just WANT Iec to be scum. Stalling the day out on empty rhetoric shouldn't come from a townie.

Actually the second quote bothers me. See the bold. Why do you want Iec to be scum? I thought town priorites were finding scum in people, not wanting to find scum in specific people.

I said why I want Iec to be scum. I know as well as anybody that anti-town play isn't in itself scummy and the post that I was referring to is thus not actually indicative of alignment, but it would frustrate me greatly if such a post actually did come from a townie.

A part of that is also acknowledging a hint of confirmation bias in my attitude towards Iec and I really should check my suspicion of him to make sure I am not letting myself tunnel.

----

I haven't really read the last few pages in any great detail, can someone state why Darkstalker and Dramonic are scum in 50 words or less please?

What ever happened to our esteemed Ort replacement?

I have a pretty strong town read on plum and I don't get what Parama is getting at with her.

Vas's claim is believable, but doesn't it seem a little broken?

Vas, can you be roleblocked, or are you like a normal hider and it resolves before roleblocks

Thats a dumb question don't answer.

Why the hell did chrono claim? Dude is obv town. Oh hey, I notice Iec is calling him scummy.

I'm so frustrated that I have no other real scum reads than Iec right now, but thats my own fault. The gut in me wants is eager to hear what BlazesRb has to say, I still don't like Manho and want him to start posting again, and more than one of the players that I don't even know is in the game is scum.

Blah blah blah so on and so forth. I'll get back into the swing of things over the next few days.

[Chronopie]

After questioning the Mod, I can resurrect any-time before the full reveal. That includes after Role/alignment cop results. Up until they're buried.

Unfortunately, they're going to be buried daybreak tomorrow, which is when I'd gain Resurrection ability, assuming worship dominance.

[Chronopie]

I wouldn't mind an Iece lynch. If we fail, and worship Egyptians, I can erase that mistake lol. Assuming that I don't get killed prior to that point. and that there's no scum role which accelerates burial.

[Chronopie]

^ Feel free to ignore my input. I post before thinking far too often.

[Socrates]

Oh, hey, at the lynchers: I don't know if anyone has asked you this yet or if it has been stated already, but do you leave the game immediately when the GF dies or after he has been buried proper?

[Albatross]

Man, I suck at alts.

[Chronopie]

Actually, that is a good point... wait for Role/Alignment cop; town, all good; Resurrect; whoops GF.

[Chronopie]

Beholder's been Fucking with my head. It's sorted now,

most of

the specifics haven't changed, but it turns out that there's one small change:

After questioning the Mod, I can resurrect

any-time

during twilight

before the full reveal. That includes after Role/alignment cop results. Up until they're buried.

Unfortunately, they're going to be buried daybreak tomorrow, which is when I'd gain Resurrection ability, assuming worship dominance.

[Chronopie]

^Note: Twilight action, resolves at daybreak.

[Chronopie]

Beholder is now getting technical on my ass.

^Twilight action that Resolves during Twilight, but includes Roleblock + protection, so the resurrected can't do anything or die until Day anyway.

[Iecerint]

Even beyond that, you'd almost certainly be roleblocked if it ever came to you using that ability to resurrect confirmed town.

@ MO, I'm relying on the assumption that the game is designed to be null or pro-scum to massclaim early. This is just based on site meta.

[ooba]

V\LA for exactly 24 hours. You can expect a catch up post for this game within 36 hours.

[dramonic]

1. dram's post is incredibly misleading. ooba changed his opinion during the course of D1 on account of new information.

You know, you really ought to look at Ooba's ISO Iece. between the two opinion of his I've posted there are 2 posts about how Tar should play and some other stuff that clearly states his suspicions haven't change. His new list with all the flipped opinions is the FIRST of his post day 2. He hasn't explained what's with the changed opinion.

Even if he were an investigative role that clears one of his suspicions, we're talking 5 here.

SO why don't you let him explain himself and go be scummy on someone else? It's not like you know what he's thinking.

Or perhaps you do

Vote: Iecerint

[dramonic]

V\LA for exactly 24 hours. You can expect a catch up post for this game within 36 hours.

it better be solid with explanation for all the flip-flopping.

[Mighty Orbots]

Dude is obv town.

How is chronopie obvtown?

[Iecerint]

1. Don't forget the red color, dram.
2. I'm pretty sure he said I was town right after I published the Sky saga D1. He also changed his mind on Mina around the same time IIRC. SK being town D2 is because MO claimed a result.
3. I can't remember your other examples, but the fact that you listed all of these as examples of an (implicitly) unexplained/scummy flip-flop when new information clearly informed at least those 3 implies not thinking carefully or deliberately inflating any conceivable case against ooba.

In fact, that's enough for me to vote you over DS, though I remain sympathetic to the DS wagon.

Unvote; Vote: dramonic

. His post claiming ooba flip-flopped on that set of players deliberately ignored the fact that specific circumstances changed each of those reads (or at least a subset of them; I haven't gone through and checked each one yet).

[dramonic]

1. Don't forget the red color, dram.
2. I'm pretty sure he said I was town right after I published the Sky saga D1. He also changed his mind on Mina around the same time IIRC. SK being town D2 is because MO claimed a result.
3. I can't remember your other examples, but the fact that you listed all of these as examples of an (implicitly) unexplained/scummy flip-flop when new information clearly informed at least those 3 implies not thinking carefully or deliberately inflating any conceivable case against ooba.

1. right, thanks
2. he never stated to have changed his mind on you and his second to last post implies HEAVILY that he'd want to lynch Mina

You messed up Iece, big time.

Unvote
Vote: Iecerint

[DTMaster]

Fuck. I was missing one. Flag 6 - Reread Raj

@Ice
1. What bothers me if, Parama is being serious, it really brings a flag on what happened D1.

@MO
1. It is possible then, people who didn't vote are scum because we could have factions within town (ie each god is a faction within itself within town). I'd go over each each claim from D1 and now and see where some votes fall short.

Or it's more likely that we have really inactive players that had their votes lost.

@VV
Um, you claimed the protector role. Unless we have multiple protectors (possible but that also means multiple kills and multiple factions to balance it out), you're probably going to get blocked/kill.

Considering your power protects both the player and yourself in a modified hider way (that's how I read it).

@Alba

I'll tell you why I've stopped caring. Day 1 ended up in a no lynch, the most protown player in this game gets shot, every single post in this game seems to be a novel and I don't think a single person even read my arguments about why I thought Iec is scum. Why the fuck should I get off my ass and passionately pursue an Iec case when nobody is even going to dignify me with a response? Besides, have you ever heard of the theory that in games this large every player going full throttle at each others throat only serves to distract and fracture the town?

Wrong. Issue 1.

The fact that no lynching occured doesn't mean that:

everyday will end in a no lynch, or that Ort/replacement lynch could mean hes a reviver/reincarnator/etc, or that he's town, or that there was a hidden role power that caused it

.

It's a mystery, and we could still have scum there. Thus we need to figure it out. And lynching again will tell you what the fuck is up.

Issue 2. I drew attention to your Ice case because you're not continuing it. So obviously I'm rereading good sir.

Issue 3. So having good town players/leaders are bad ok? Take Kingdom of Hearts Mafia:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12809

Where DGB took the lead and went from L-1 lynch material (her replacement) to most pro town player and caught all the scum. Where I tunneled heavily on the GF Gonrrad, and Pushed the Cobalt/SSK case to death where both players flipped scum. Where Sajin finished the game and caught the last scum Starbuck in her SK gambits.

The fact that we have this thread and we're using it it's called a good thing

Or battle mage mafia http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12167

Where I went from L-1 delicious material to rebound the wagon onto scum. Where in the background we had paranoid cop Charter owning scum. Vi confirming townies. A mafia screw ball messing the background. And on the last day, we had all town aligned players and we could continue lynching but we chose to nolynch to find the mystery.

Do you realize that we wouldn't have found Benmage scum if we didn't lock him down. He was day killing scum. He was considered the most pro town player as day-vig. We were discussing about the additional kills and the neat kills on scum. We had him claim. He locked himself down with that claim and got confirmed as scum and died.

We wouldn't had scum cross kill in either game without discussion. We wouldn't have caught scum without discussion or scum hunting.

We wouldn't have won the games if we didn't play the game

When you start attacking game play within posts, you sir fail and deserve to be shot. When you use hyperbolies to describe this game: you do realize we have players that are slipping under the radar.

We even have active lurkers "cough" CMAR "cough" who posted in other games and decided not to post here. Remember my case? 2-3 games got analysis. Here? None

Finally. When I read your other game that you're in "cough" do a MS utility search "cough" You sir fail here. I'll believe that you've been away ( from the 7th to the 10th). But when you analyze in the other game, but just say you didn't reread and doesn't care here, the alarm bells keep ringing.

PS. We don't know if Spy is scum/town. If he's scum then we broke one of the biggest puzzle pieces we need to in scum. If he's town, then oh well Chrono can revive him if he doesn't die tonight.

If you are playing follow the Spy and his death really broke your spirit, then replace out because you're obvious star crossed lovers with him.

Why I want Dram ded:

Because he's an owl and I like my target practice

Because I when I read Dram's posts (do an Iso read) he's jabbing here and there, but not really solidifying on reads. It's like: "suspicion here" or "comment here" ADD heaven when I iso him. It's off.

And.. I'm tired. Whew. Break time. BREAKFAST TIME.

[manho]

Interesting Point that Parama brings up. We can conclude that either a) Manho is one of the GOO, or b) Gains additional Voting power each day (so would have 3 tomorrow etc.), or c) Someone else has buffed him.

lol, they are all wrong.

don't have much time to read...

[CryMeARiver]

1. Don't forget the red color, dram.
2. I'm pretty sure he said I was town right after I published the Sky saga D1. He also changed his mind on Mina around the same time IIRC. SK being town D2 is because MO claimed a result.
3. I can't remember your other examples, but the fact that you listed all of these as examples of an (implicitly) unexplained/scummy flip-flop when new information clearly informed at least those 3 implies not thinking carefully or deliberately inflating any conceivable case against ooba.

1. right, thanks
2. he never stated to have changed his mind on you and his second to last post implies HEAVILY that he'd want to lynch Mina

You messed up Iece, big time.

Unvote
Vote: Iecerint

Agreed

Vote: Iecrint

scummy scum scum
The fact that all the kills were accounted for by people and the killers are off scotch free also isn't a good thing.

[DTMaster]

CMAR: You do realize that we had like 3 reasons in this game that were fucking claimed that explains this?

[DTMaster]

EBWOP: Actually, only Tar's actions/alignment is really confirmed. S_B is fucking not confirmed. :p But claiming the kill is weird.