Mini 983: It Got Worse (GAME OVER)

[UncertainKitten]

You make a valiant effort, but honestly, the sheer stupidity of it is what has me convinced you aren't trying and thought you could get away with a mislynch on LAL grounds.

[Amished]

@UK: hear about what, exactly?

As for "meta": I glean a certain standard of play from "meta". No tells or anything that I generally see referred to as "meta" by 99% of the people. If I join a game with zwet (for example) then my "meta" of him adjusts for his standard of play (not posting a lot) and goes from there. I don't look for tells or anything like that.

[Amished]

@UK: Fine, fucking lynch me. I'll agree that this game doesn't suit my playstyle and I'm a bit lost but this was the biggest thing to happen in the game and I'm attacking SPS for it.

[UncertainKitten]

As I thought, you'd excuse it as something different.

Except, the excerpt I quoted was basically you saying that SPS is committing a scumtell because he's never done this before as town, which is basically indirectly using meta as a tell ^-^.

[Amished]

Besides, then I can have an example to point to that "lolreactions" is fucking retarded postgame, and that SP doesn't find scum.

[UncertainKitten]

@Amished: The day just started? Why are you giving up? I think you are scummy and I'm answering your points. If something else comes up that's scummier or you suddenly become more pro town, then my vote will move.

Why are you giving up so quickly?

[Amished]

Whatever, I'm town, just lynch me. I'm essentially vanilla as I wasn't going to use my ability anyways.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, I agree it's fucking retarded. But...it doesn't make SPS scum.

When did your argument against SPS go from he's scum to he's retarded?

[Amished]

BECAUSE YOU'RE BEING FUCKING IMPOSSIBLE.

I truthfully explain everything that I thought and think through, nothing is inconsistent and everything I fucking say is a lie apparently. Jesus christ. I've answered every question posed to me as soon as I read it, and I don't see where my scum fucking motivation would be to do any of this. Before this the game was moving slow as fuckall and I was annoyed to hell and back with SP's doing shit and blaming Llama for it; and then SPS doing shit and I get attacked for it. The directions of the attacks make NO sense and I don't feel like dealing with it anymore.

[Amished]

It hasn't changed. He's retarded scum. Did you not look at why I said it makes no sense for his line of thought as town? Therefore he's scum; and his play was just retarded. No change.

[magnus_orion]

*is shocked that he is the one to struggle to keep up with people for once*

@amished: basically it comes down to what I expect from town vs what I expect from scum:

From town: Look something X is weird! Why did you do X?
From scum: Look something X is weird! You must be scum!
If something makes little sense from either perspective, your first reaction as town isn't "OMGSCUM", its usually "what?"
Whereas you're first reaction as scum may be "I can get a mislynch out of this"

[UncertainKitten]

So, Amished. It is June 9th, right?

Did I mention the deadline was the 23rd at 11:59pm?

So...you just want to be lynched now, hypothetically as town, despite there being 14 days left in the day? Why?

It's frustrating to be attacked as any alignment, sure. But if you're really getting that irritated, step away from the game for a few minutes.

Now, we'll just ignore how fucking hypocritical I'm being, k ^-^?


Anyway, so, you recall that 12th ??? guy? Do you think he might have been the one who deflated SPS' fakeprotect?

As I said, it was kinda obvious, and if I had the powers that we are assuming ??? ha...

OH HEY, I DID ONCE DIDN'T I!!!

And hey, didn't I abuse them to get things done using the voice of the mod? Hey, I wonder if that could be occurring here!

[UncertainKitten]

@Amished: inconsistency != necessarily scummy. In fact, inconsistency means you aren't trying to keep track of a story/lies in some cases. This is not to say that consistency is a scumtell, but merely that inconsistency isn't always. It all goes back to scum intent.

So he's retarded scum, supposedly. Why? His action probably hurts him more as scum than it does as town, actually. Without a scum motivation, even one that fell flat, I don't understand the SPS attack.

If I missed it, you can link back/quote it and I'll reassess it.

At any rate, I explained your scum motivation. SPS is quite an easy attack to make on the grounds of derp LAL. You went for it, and it backfired. However, had we not been using our brains, it would have been easy to get that mislynch on a stupid townie. Well, in your view.

Mango also addresses that aspect of your scum intent far more elegantly than I did.

[Amished]

@mo: I did think it was something weird and I weighed both possibilities and passed it off (see 159). However, more information has been gleaned (the edit) and it doesn't make sense for town to do something like that. Therefore, it must be a scum action. Then further accounting in the "lol reactions" for the "why?" question, I don't see town doing that either (See last paragraph of 197 for detailed analysis) ALSO doesn't make sense as town.

@UK: because I don't give a shit. The people I trust the most in this game to see reason are all attacking me (Ray is the only one that isn't, and he hasn't had a chance to post since then) so the good players will convince the not-so-good that they're right despite my defenses. This way I don't have to expend energy into something that looks like a hopeless cause and you can get on with your lives and actually find scum.

Also, I have no idea what you're referring to about the ??? person. Whether or not they exposed the lie doesn't really affect me other than it exposed the lie (which was pro-town (or necessary, and in that case null) and I'm not attacking them)

Again: As me-scum; I wouldn't expect anybody to know that I lied about something in game. Therefore, there's no risk to claiming a day-protect. You can get "confirmed" by not having Llama die that day or at least look pro-town for preventing a possible kill (that may or may not happen).

There's nothing that hurt him as scum if his lie wasn't exposed.

[sykedoc]

Hey stupids! RayFrost is being replaced. If you have any suggestions while I look please post them as "Response: ReplacementName."

[UncertainKitten]

Response: Glork

[SpyreX]

Response: Fate

[UncertainKitten]

@Amished: Mostly it just occured to me. I think the "points" are a hidden player's doing.

Now, you see, this is where we diverge. Just because it's stupid for town doesn't make them scum. You basically are claiming guilty until proven innocent, which is a lot easier for scum than town, IMO.

Ok, the problem with your scum motivations for SPS is that...they don't logically work. You are proposing that SPS was planning to seriously mean his day protect action, which, btw, would not get much town cred on it's own, since it's kinda stupid to publicly protect someone that way, and that he was planning to pass off Llama not dying, less than a week into D1, as his game.

Ok, you know what? I don't know what's wrong with it, except it feels really contrived and overall silly, and Occam's Razor really seems to be screaming at such an explanation, I think.

Oh, and suppose a day vig had appeared and shot Llama? Do you think scum would value a townie of indeterminate power high enough to trade their own life for? Because SPS would be an obv lynch after that. Well, I think he would be. Hard to tell.

Meh, I'm not sure. All I know is you were previously giving me scum vibes and your SPS attacks don't help.

[magnus_orion]

OH HEY, I DID ONCE DIDN'T I!!!

I don't know did you?

@mo: I did think it was something weird and I weighed both possibilities and passed it off (see 159). However, more information has been gleaned (the edit) and it doesn't make sense for town to do something like that. Therefore, it must be a scum action. Then further accounting in the "lol reactions" for the "why?" question, I don't see town doing that either (See last paragraph of 197 for detailed analysis) ALSO doesn't make sense as town.

And didn't ask what sort of reactions he was after.

response: netopalis

[UncertainKitten]

I did. In Mind Screw II Mafia. Oh, I also lost town the game by being a fucking 2 AM derp. But I was doing cool stuff at first!

[Amished]

*takes deep, calming breaths*

One thing wrong with your situation: I don't think it's guilty until proven innocent, but this proves (in my eyes) that SPS is guilty.

Look at this timeline for SPS-town:

I want to get some reactions to liven up the game/find scum.
I claim to have a PASSIVE ability, on somebody that's unlikely to be tested in any case, and possibly waste a pro-town action (day-vig, in your example).
Wait.
Lie gets exposed, claims that it was for lolreactions; no reactions have occurred. Votes for person that he was already voting for (since the person didn't have reactions)

SPS-scum:
I want to potentially draw out a pro-town action (day-vig), or get townie cred.
Claim Passive ability (if tested, then vig both daykills a townie, and *doesn't* daykill a scumbaggo, if not, townie cred)
lie is exposed
OH SHIT, what can I say to make it appear logical? lolreactions!

The town side of it doesn't make sense. You don't get reactions from claiming a passive ability. You make yourself a target as *either* side by lying; but you could (assuming day-vig because you brought it up) lose a townie, and get yourself lynched for it wasting a day because there's no possible reason for town not to jump on something like that.

Much of this is moot because I don't believe a vig would shoot in that case anyways since both
1) they might not believe Llama is scum, and vigs are for scum
2) they might believe SPS, and shooting somebody that's protected wastes their ability.

@mo: I didn't ask either, but you don't claim a passive ability to draw out reactions. daykills are proactive and would generate reactions; but the action doesn't line up with the excuse.

[UncertainKitten]

I disagree no reactions have occured, but I really wanna hear SPS elaborate on that, I agree.

The thing is, once the vig happened (if anyone were that stupid), SPS would be getting lynched no matter what he said.

I mean, I guess I see what you are saying, I just don't feel it is true.

Call it gut. I feel like SPS' intentions were obvious, and you're trying to muck up the waters and see if you can get him lynched.

I can't justify this very well though. I still think your earlier behavior is worthy of keeping my vote on you.

[Amished]

The only reactions that have occurred were because the lie was exposed, really. I didn't say anything until it was brought to my attention by you and magnus; and this is really the only reaction.

What about my early play do you feel is scummy?

[SaintKerrigan]

Response: Fate

Nooooooo I cannot escape Fate!

Response: Ellibereth

Amished feels town to me. This is why.

My gut's telling me that at least one of the Amished attackers is scum. Magnus seems to be sitting on the side and pushing every once in a while for the sake of pushing. UK seems more honest with her responses (aka they jive more with me as town).

FoS: Magnus Orion

Leaving my vote on RC because he's gone suspiciously quiet as of late (plus my previous grievances still stand).

[LlamaFluff]

Quick skim of whats going on right now confuses me quite a bit, although UK being town you dont need an indepth read to figure out here. I think tomorrow night will be my best chance for getting caught up.