Open 224 -- vengeful/Girls Alive! (Game Over)

[Fenchurch]

Wow... serious? It is real tempting to hammer and find out already. That'd be a super-quick game though, even for a vengeful. But if a wagon formed on the godfather straight away, isn't this what it'd look like? How is it possible to find out for certain?

If it is a McG/Shattered combo then that's a straight win. If McG is the goon though, then I wouldn't rule out charter or Buttonmen bussing.

But also, I don't know if I like charter pushing for a quick game. Maybe I'm just being manipulated by scum trying to get townies to do their dirty work for them.

Ack. Thinking.

SV? Your comments?

[Fenchurch]

Buttonmen: on page 1, you vote charter to L-1 then quickly unvoted because he had made another post which you hadn't seen before. Then you immediately voted McG to L-1.

Presumable the McG vote was also an effectively random vote, to gain a reaction; which later became a 'real' vote.

What made you switch from the charter vote? Why not stick with the reaction/random vote on charter?

[TheButtonmen]

That vote on charter wasn't random / reaction. It was for serious; if he hadn't made that previous post I'd missed I would have been going after him for reals.

[Fenchurch]

McGriddle: In post 25 you say to Buttonmen "I don't think you are scum". Then later you say that he shouldn't vote you because you'll vengekill him even if he's town. Then in post 38 you say that you'll vengekill him because you think he's scum.

Why the change? Seems like maybe it was just in response to charter pointing out your craplogic. If not this, then what?

[Fenchurch]

That vote on charter wasn't random / reaction. It was for serious; if he hadn't made that previous post I'd missed I would have been going after him for reals.

Then was the McGriddle vote for reals too? What had you seen in his play at that point, that made him your top suspect?

[TheButtonmen]

The McGriddle vote start off as me getting a bandwagon going because I wanted to see reactions and see what competing wagon people would chose; then Mcgriddle started being megascum and I became quite content with parking my vote where it was.

[Fenchurch]

Then I'm still not clear, why choose to start a McGriddle wagon rather than a charter one?

Vote: TheButtonmen

Lurkerscum. So is Shattered Viewpoint. Game, set, match.

What is so darn townie about this post of charter's?

[TheButtonmen]

Where did I say at the time that I had town read on charter?

[Fenchurch]

You said it in the action of unvoting him.

I just don't get why noticing that post of charter's prompted you to unvote him and switch to McGriddle.

[Fenchurch]

The McGriddle vote start off as me getting a bandwagon going because I wanted to see reactions and see what competing wagon people would chose; then Mcgriddle started being megascum and I became quite content with parking my vote where it was.

Couldn't you, potentially, have achieved something similar by sticking with the charter wagon? You had the option to create a wagon on either player, why did you choose McGriddle over charter?

And I'm still waiting to hear from McGriddle and SV.

[Shattered Viewpoint]

I.... wow.

Where did this sudden suspicion of me come from? It's the first I've heard of anyone even saying anything about me (except charter's iso 0, which I assume was just RVS).

[charter]

I'm suspicious of you for your posting, which lacks even an attempt at scumhunting. And your defense of McGriddle in 42. And also how you voted McGriddle in the RVS and then immediately unvoted once he got two votes, BUT you didn't say anything about Buttonman, who put him there. You just unvoted. I feel if you were town and you didn't want a L-1 that early, that was a perfect time to start scumhunting, but you didn't do much of anything. Instead, I get the impression you wanted to do some distancing (since goon voting the GF even in the RVS is extremely risky) in the event you get lynched or McGriddle got vigged. Your play looks pretty reactionary, not like you're trying to figure out the scum.

[Fenchurch]

I.... wow.

Where did this sudden suspicion of me come from? It's the first I've heard of anyone even saying anything about me (except charter's iso 0, which I assume was just RVS).

Do you think we should lynch McGriddle?

[Shattered Viewpoint]

I.... wow.

Where did this sudden suspicion of me come from? It's the first I've heard of anyone even saying anything about me (except charter's iso 0, which I assume was just RVS).

Do you think we should lynch McGriddle?

I would prefer a TBM lynch over McG. I think that while the 'Player X' thing was disingenuous, it's not exactly a foolproof scumtell.

I'm a bit surprised that this game is moving as fast as it is.

Some questions:

charter: Can you expound a bit on the "commonness" of it being a newbscumtell for what McG did? This is only my second vengeful, and I honestly can't make the leap of logic that you're presenting.

Currently I'm most suspicious of SV, for telling people to calm down just now. I think I've seen scum act that way before.

And I've seen scum deflect questions before. Your point?

I'm really not comfortable with anyone being at L-1 this early.

unvote

Why?

[/Facepalm]

You do realize we only have one chance to lynch scum right? And you're obviously who I am going to kill when I die, so if you are not scum I suggest you stop pushing for a terrible lynch based off of nothing on page 1, unless you want to lose. I don't think you are scum though, because scum wouldn't do something that balsey at the beginning of the game.

Hello, WIFOM! (And I thought you'd actually been here long enough to not assume that scum won't do something that, well, scum wouldn't do.)

Also, I think we have more than one chance to lynch scum. Vis a vis (all examples hypothetical):

D1 lynch town!fenchurch; town!fenchurch kills scumgoon!charter
D2 we still have the GF and two townies. (This example also works if the GF is vengekilled.)

That vote on charter wasn't random / reaction.

It was for serious; if he hadn't made that previous post I'd missed I would have been going after him for reals.

These two statements (right next to each other! in the very same post!!) appear contradictory. Can you illuminate?

[McGriddle]

McGriddle: In post 25 you say to Buttonmen "I don't think you are scum". Then later you say that he shouldn't vote you because you'll vengekill him even if he's town. Then in post 38 you say that you'll vengekill him because you think he's scum.

Why the change? Seems like maybe it was just in response to charter pointing out your craplogic. If not this, then what?

My attitude is subject to change as he has seemed to get more scummy as the day goes on. That being said, I NEVER said I would vig kill him if I thought he was town. All I am saying is that even though he didn't hammer vote me, he still put me at L-1 without a reason so I would put that on the top of my scummy list if I were to get killed by someone who DID give a reason.


For the last effing time, because I am starting to get pissed off about people adding words into my mouth.

If I die, I will kill who I think is scum. So putting me at L-1 without any reason and having someone else WITH a reason kill me I am most likely going to Vig TheButtonmen. Pretty obvious if you are not 3/4 retarded. That's why I am saying that it was stupid play (BY SCUM OR TOWN) to put me at L-1 without reason.

[TheButtonmen]

That vote on charter wasn't random / reaction.

It was for serious; if he hadn't made that previous post I'd missed I would have been going after him for reals.

These two statements (right next to each other! in the very same post!!) appear contradictory. Can you illuminate?

....?

It was a random vote or fishing for reactions; it was a serious vote. What part of that doesn't make sense?

@SV:

Also if you want me lynched why aren't you voting me?

[Shattered Viewpoint]

It was a

random vote or fishing for reactions

; it was a serious vote. What part of that doesn't make sense?

@SV:

Also if you want me lynched why aren't you voting me?

Well, which was it? I hate waffling.

Vote: TheButtonmen

[TheButtonmen]

Heh McG your still going on about how if you got hammered you would Vig me, but no one is hammering you eh?

I wonder why scum wouldn't take advantage of that?

All I can come up with is;

A) Your scum.
or
B) Me and Charter are scum.

So what do you say to getting someone to hammer you and then you can shoot me if your actually town; either your scum and its 3:1 D2 or your town and I'm scum and it's 2:1 tomorrow. Worst case scenario is 1 for 1!

EBWOP: It wasn't a random vote or fishing for reactions; it was a serious vote.

[TheButtonmen]

Christ SV; read my posts

That vote on charter wasn't random / reaction. It was for serious; if he hadn't made that previous post I'd missed I would have been going after him for reals.

Already gone of this with Fen; though nice quoting, chopping a sentence in half like that try to make it look condidictory.

[charter]

charter: Can you expound a bit on the "commonness" of it being a newbscumtell for what McG did? This is only my second vengeful, and I honestly can't make the leap of logic that you're presenting.

Newbvengescum will sometimes bluff and threaten to kill someone if they get lynched. It serves to dissuade someone from voting them with a threat instead of defending themselves.

It's a reliable scumtell.

The way I read Buttonmen's vote on me, then switch to McGriddle is like this. Buttonmen didn't see my first post, so he voted me because I said Buttonmen's post was saying nothing, while at the same time, my post said nothing. Then he saw my first post, so his reason for voting me was no longer valid, and voted McGriddle. Both of the votes had reasoning behind them, but he switched votes when he realized the reasoning behind his first one was incorrect.
I don't see how there's this much confusion over it (other than Shattered trying to spin this into a case on Buttonmen because his Godfather is close to being lynched).

[McGriddle]

Heh McG your still going on about how if you got hammered you would Vig me, but no one is hammering you eh?

I wonder why scum wouldn't take advantage of that?

All I can come up with is;

A) Your scum.
or
B) Me and Charter are scum.

So what do you say to getting someone to hammer you and then you can shoot me if your actually town; either your scum and its 3:1 D2 or your town and I'm scum and it's 2:1 tomorrow. Worst case scenario is 1 for 1!

EBWOP: It wasn't a random vote or fishing for reactions; it was a serious vote.

[/doublefacepalm] we are still in hypothetical mode. I am arguing about how you made a mistake for either faction.

[TheButtonmen]

I feel sorry for your goon.

[McGriddle]

I feel sorry for your goon.

Stop all of your AtE Bullshit. You are not cute, you are not making yourself look town, all you are doing is flustering my feathers so you can puullll a mistake ridden slip out of me and call me scum.

[TheButtonmen]

A) I'm not appealing to emotions and/or experiance (though I could argue your post actually is AtE).
B) Not sure what you mean about trying to make you slip so as to call you scum. I'm already being quite blunt in calling you the Godfather.

[Shattered Viewpoint]

....?

It was a random vote or fishing for reactions; it was a serious vote. What part of that doesn't make sense?

@SV:

Also if you want me lynched why aren't you voting me?

EBWOP: It wasn't a random vote or fishing for reactions; it was a serious vote.

Christ, scum, get lynched.