NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[Parama]

Nhammen claims roleblocker with roleblock on SGR (Socrates). Nhammen was also scummy enough D1 that he got pushed to a claim.

SGR was also rather scummy D1. Some idiots believe that Nhammen's roleblock coupled with only a single NK means that the person blocked MUST BE MAFIA ZOMG when this isn't true at all.

Also please consider a foilist vote because he's far and away the scummiest player here and I've spelled out why several times though he continues to say that "my case is crap" without being able to disprove it.

[Shrinehme]

As of page 16 I have an inclination to the Dr. Robotnik and Nhammen wagons, and would like to have seen a The Goat wagon.

Foilist's extreme rolefishing is noted and scummy. It's understandable that he's in the hot seat now.

Daniel looked newbtown. Without even taking the Mason thing into account, I wouldn't have

Vote: Nhammen

is at the top of list, not taking into account the Roleblocker claim. Robotnik and Foilist beneath him.

I will go back and reread The Goat especially closely because he seemed to have vanished during the Mason fiasco.

I'll finish up when I get back later today

[Shrinehme]

EBWOP

"Daniel looked newbtown. Without even taking the Mason thing into account, I wouldn't have been interested in lynching him"

[vezopiraka]

unvote:socrates
Vote: nhammen

Seems that people prefer to vote for him.

[Leafsnail]

What exactly about that quote of me shows a town read of Timeater?

I didn't say it did. I just said it makes the two of you ridiculously obvious scumbuddies.

to my best approximation, they each have a 1/24 chance of being scum, though that is not taking into account the fact that vezopiraka is confirmed.

This is only true if there's one mafia and one werewolf, and the people who are already dead have a chance of being antimillers .

And please can we lynch obvscum foilist or Timeater?

[nhammen]

@MS Sevis is likely scum. You are also likely scum on the other team, killing Vi and then leaping at the opportunity to blame it on Sevis. I'm guessing this is the logic you and your scum buddies came up with when selecting Vi, only they were clever enough not to bring it up.

You seriously think NKing Vi incriminates sevis that much? Or that anybody else would think that? Wow...

And you have just misrepped his case. He is NOT blaming the kill on sevis. He is stating that Vi thought sevis was scum, Vi flipped Town, and Vi is a good player, so is probably correct in his statement. I'm not sure if I should follow this, but I just got out of a game in which following this logic would have nabbed all of the scum, so I am actually leaning slightly in that direction.

LMP, you do realize that it REALLY looks like you are defending sevis here? At the same time as distancing from him. That is a really strange occurrence...

I think our best lynch today is nhammen or Socrates. The question is do we trust the role blocker claim or not. Currently I'm in the camp of not trusting the claim, but 1233 concerns me.

Weren't you one of the people that complained that I wasn't paying attention to other possibilities? This doesn't mesh with that complaint...

Are you saying every time I post I sound scummy? I don't ever one time recall you claiming I was scum. If you have a case, I'd love to hear it so I can defend myself. I don't much like being generically lumped in with players you find scummy with no chance to defend myself.

Overdefensive?

Well he claimed roleblocker which if a very common role even for scum. So we trust his claim. If socrates is town we lynch nhammen. If socrates flips mafioso we lynch nhammen. If socrates flips WW then nhammen is probably town or they did a barrel of WIFOM.
In any way we end up killing at least one scum.

So GO GO plan A.

Unvote
Vote sorates

OK, well, first off, you are saying I should get lynched with almost any possible result of Socrates' flip. Second, you are trying to lynch off of a role action that may not even mean anything. Third, you have been following other players to their votes all D2. Have you EVER made a case of your own? Because I can't remember any time that you have, other than the faulty "one of the Masons must be scum" argument. I swear you are the most anti-Town confirmed Town I have ever seen.

sorry guys, I'm back. I apologize for being absent again. I should have craploads more time to devote to this game now that I got modkilled (on an accident) in the KoL game. I really just spent most of my time in that game reading because I got a heavier scumread on it in this. Haven't read through this yet, but I did it in the last game and this worked for catching scum.

unvote vote pman

Ok, well he's been replaced but I couldn't find any posts of nachoman. I'm keeping my vote until he at least posts. and does an analysis. I just read the last two pages, I'm going back further to my last post to start catching up

You going to comment on my most recent arguments against you?

You jumped on Sevis because of the Vi night kill. That is a terrible reason to suspect him. It discounts any of a number of possibilities, not the least of which is that the scum killed Vi simply because he is a good player.

You seem determined to misrep this case. Why? Do you know something the rest of the Town doesn't?

The first two were the only ones I seriously suspected at the time. The lurkers in general annoy me, but I couldn't really pick one out as legitimately being my third suspect. I continued reading and found that the town sentiment seemed to be leaning towards a nhammen or socrates lynch. Since I find socrates to be less scummy than nhammen, and I believe there is more information to be gained from lynching nhammen, I decided that should such an event come to pass I would support nhammen's lynch. Wanting to make this apparent to the town in a tangible way, I put him third on my scum list.

Couldn't find one to legitimately be your third suspect? The problem with this game is that there are too many scummy players, not too few.

You decided to add me as the third on your list because you wanted to follow the Town sentiment?

Hi.

Lynching nhammen or socrates will give us the most insight.

Why?

I roleblocked Socrates; there was a missing kill last night. However, this could also be due to a Doc protect, since I had already claimed RB before going into Night.

[LimMePls]

@MS Sevis is likely scum. You are also likely scum on the other team, killing Vi and then leaping at the opportunity to blame it on Sevis. I'm guessing this is the logic you and your scum buddies came up with when selecting Vi, only they were clever enough not to bring it up.

You seriously think NKing Vi incriminates sevis that much? Or that anybody else would think that? Wow...

Sigh... apparently I am taking crazy pills. This is the opposite of what I'm saying. MS is the one who switched his vote to Sevis after the NK, and I attacked him for it. For my case on Sevis please read my iso, particuarly D1.

Is this really that hard to follow?

[nhammen]

@MS Sevis is likely scum. You are also likely scum on the other team, killing Vi and then leaping at the opportunity to blame it on Sevis. I'm guessing this is the logic you and your scum buddies came up with when selecting Vi, only they were clever enough not to bring it up.

You seriously think NKing Vi incriminates sevis that much? Or that anybody else would think that? Wow...

Sigh... apparently I am taking crazy pills. This is the opposite of what I'm saying. MS is the one who switched his vote to Sevis after the NK, and I attacked him for it. For my case on Sevis please read my iso, particuarly D1.

Is this really that hard to follow?

I'm sorry I worded that badly. Let me try again. You are saying that MS is saying that NKing Vi incriminates sevis. Do you really think that MS thinks that this is true? And the fact that have to word it this way shows how much words you are putting into MS' mouth. Or are completely misunderstanding MS' "case" on sevis.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Nhammen

[Unsight]

@Unsight: I believe, but I am not SSBF so I don't know, that he is trying to ensure that the monks/masons are not overlooked simply because of their roles, and is therefore posting player analysis on each of them. I'm not sure how useful this is at the moment, and to my best approximation, they each have a 1/24 chance of being scum, though that is not taking into account the fact that vezopiraka is confirmed.

I can see what you're saying about pomegranate, but is that really the best lynch for today?

I don't know what the "best lynch" for today is but any lynch that ends with dead scum is fine with me.

As for Pom, do you think it's a good idea to let her slide through all of Day 2 doing exactly nothing?

[Pomegranate]

As for Pom, do you think it's a good idea to let her slide through all of Day 2 doing exactly nothing?

It's not.

I'm far behind, and there are always more pages. But I'll do it soon.

[LimMePls]

Yes, I do think he is saying that, and I do think it is wrong. Want to see why I think he is saying that?

I refuse to throw away a night kill as possible evidence because of WIFOM tendencies.

And its equally bad logic to not think Vi NK=/=Sevis scum. And no; I did not immediately leap on Sevis.

In addition, MS claims to not immediately leap on Sevis, yet his very first post of D2 is:

Vote:Sevis

Because Vi had strong scum vibes from him. And after ISOing Sevis. I agree.

Also GL SGR ^^

How much more immediate can it get than his first post of that day? It was even the 5th overall post of the day. Why not ask some probing questions of Sevis? Why not discuss the case from the day before? Once it's clear we're getting a Sevis replacement, why not wait to hear from Sevis replacement? If all he is going off is the case from D1, then why wasn't he with us on D1? Why wait for the NK and the WIFOM to be convinced? Both MS' play and his WORDS say that he is basing his case on the Vi NK.

[askbob]

Vote: Nhammen

Really? Absolutely no analysis at all? You could at least say hello, the experience you've had with the game, and why you think nhammen is scummy.

[MichelSableheart]

Tenth vote count of day 2.

animorpherv1 (0):
askbob (2):

Super Smash Bros. Fan, nhammen

Dr. Robotnik (0):
Dry-fit (0):
Faraday (0):
foilist13 (3):

Parama, Socrates, Leafsnail

Leafsnail (1):

Timeater

Lowell (0):
LynchMePls (0):
Midnight's Sorrow (0):
Nachomamma8 (1):

askbob

nhammen (7):

SerialClergyman, Dry-fit, LynchMePls, Dr. Robotnik, Shrinehme, vezopiraka, Nachomamma8

Nikanor (0):
Parama (1):

foilist13

Pomegranate (1):

Unsight

SerialClergyman (0):
Shrinehme (2):

Midnight's Sorrow, Pomegranate

Socrates (3):

Faraday, animorpherv1, Lowell

Super Smash Bros. Fan (0):
Timeater (0):
Unsight (0):
vezopiraka (0):

Not Voting (1):

Nikanor

With 22 players alive, it takes 12 votes to lynch someone.

---

Still looking for replacements for animorpherv.

Faraday has announced limited access.

Timeater has announced limited access till monday.

Parama has announced V/LA from the 6th till the 9th of june.

No prods need to be issued at this time.

[Socrates]

True story, I have literally never seen Pomegranate caught up in a game. I remember it made her a really easy mislynch target in a game I was scum in a while ago.

Blah, I get bad feelings in my gut about this Nhammen wagon.

In other news I stumbled across this gem while I was isoing Sevis:

Interesting finds, both nhammen and Parama. Now that I re-read foilist's posts, he does seem to be rolefishing quite a bit: previously, I took this for him just trying to make sense of the game. I still don't get the feeling that he's scum, but I'm not too sure just yet. Vezo really is contributing far less to the game than he could be, hinting at the role without any clarification only helps scum, as far as I can see.

The speed with which Chronopie jumped on the nhammen wagon does surprise me -- he seems to be hoping to put the focus away from him and thus be forgotten. This doesn't look like very pro-town play to me. I also have to agree that his attempts at rolefishing would cause more harm if they were successful (I see LMP's role and knowledge to currently be of more importance than vezo's).

FOS: Chronopie

Unvote; Vote: nhammen

Anyone up for a shrinehime wagon?

unvote, vote:shrinehime

I would not be surprised in the least if both Nacho and Nikanor replaced into scum roles. They're not doing anything.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm not liking Leafsnail's tunneling. Yes I wasn't a fan of Midnight's Sorrow (Hence my previous Day 2 vote on him), but Leafsnail went on and on and on about Midnight's Sorrow and now foilst13. It's also hypocritical because he called Parama for tunneling, when he's doing the same thing now.

I agree with Unsight. Unsight made a good point about Pomegranate lack of contirbuation to the game. I also noticed that Pomegranate frequently makes content promises, but never delievers them. I'm going to

FoS: Pomegranate

@Nachomamma8: Your vote seemed to contain absolutely no reason why you voted nhammen? Was this a placement vote until you found your top suspect and finish reading or was it serious? I'm fixing to call foul on that post.

Suspect list coming up at the end of this post. If you want me to explain, tell me and I will.

@SSBF Apparently I AM taking crazy pills.

1. Please show me where I misrepresented anyone especially MS, or where I tunneled MS D1.

I disagreed about MS over what I said, as he kept saying that I was saying daniel was scum. I wasn't saying that, I was saying that if there was a Mason/WW daniel was most likely to be it. We argued about that, but I certainly didn't "tunnel". I don't even remember if I voted him, but if I did, it didn't stay that way for long. Compare this to Parama, and I don't know how you can call that tunneling.

2. Please, for my sanity, show me where I misrepresented MS. I'll either apologize for the misrep, or explain why it wasn't one. The last thing I want to be is a hypocrite.

1. You just misrep me there.. I accused you of tunneling Midnight's Sorrow Day 2, not Day 1.

Most of your posts from ISO: 50 (First post from you on Day 2 I believe) to ISO: 72 have been focused on Midnight's Sorrow. The tunneling isn't as clear cut as from Leafsnail or Parama, but it is still there. I can pick out the part where you responded to Midnight's Sorrow if you want me to.

This is where you misrep Midnight's Sorrow:

This is exactly what I meant.

It isn't what you said. You said

Please come up with a better reason as to why you think daniel is scum LMP.

I asked you why you thought he was scummy

You accused Midnight's Sorrow of misrepresenting you here. Yet you did the exact same thing. It makes you look hypocritical.

1. I also think your Mason/Monk "mini series" was a complete waste of time. Almost distracting. I don't think any of the Masons or Monks are anywhere near as scummy as other players in the game,

and I think your efforts would have been much better used on those players.

2. And you calling me a newbie makes me laugh.

1. I did the Masons/Monks series because I wanted people to realize that just because you claimed Masons/Monks, it doesn't mean you're auto-town. Even with the claim, I'm suspicious of Seraphim/animorpherv1 and daniel/Faraday.

2. As for me calling you a newbie, it's because this is probably your first game on the site (Correct me if I'm wrong). I'm not indicating that you're a bad player at all, it's just that this is the first game I've seen you played on this site.

@SSBF

Are you any closer to finding scum with those 3 walls of text or were you just cluttering the thread to make it harder for the rest of us?

I'll explain why I did this. I was suspecting some of the claimed masons/monks and currently doubt two of the claims. While it is less likely for us to find scums within masons and monks, it cannot be ruled out as a possibility. I also wanted to rest assure that I will not be underestimating people because of claims any longer.

Suspect List (In no order)
1. askbob
2. daniel/Faraday
3. Seraphim/animorpherv1
4. pman5595/Nachomamma8
5. Parama
6. Timeater
7. Dr. Robotnik
8. Midnight's Sorrow
9. foilist13
10. Pomegranate

[Socrates]

Look at the quote by Sevis I quoted. Just look at it. Let the scummyness filter through to you. Then vote Shrinehime.

[Socrates]

Yes, my attacks are entirely hypocritical, and the only reason I'm not targeting myself is because I know my own alignment. Would you suggest I target nobody at all?

LMP complained I'm targeting someone who isn't all that scummy: I asked him who he finds scummier than Dr. Robotnik in the list of players I've had time to read on.

Oh my god why isn't this guy dead?

[Midnight's Sorrow]

Because NK WIFOM is enough to make anyone cower with their tails between their legs~

Unvote
Vote:shrinehime

Don't know if Sevis votes still count so..yeah xD

Also why are we voting Nhammen? It makes as much sense as it did last day phase.

We are not voting Nhammen Roleblockers are

not

always Scum.

[Socrates]

If there is a vig, do me a favor and serve dry-lurker up a nice lead salad. Seriously, 1 percent of the posts in the game?

[LimMePls]

I feel like gouging my eyeballs out. The whole argument with MS day one was about me saying that of the three of the masons, daniel was most likely to be scum.

Lets try this again:

Saying X is the most likely to be scum out of X Y and Z does not have to mean you think X is scummy, it can mean that you think Y and Z are pro town. That was my point. I thought Seraphim was pro-town based on his claim to clear up the vezo situation. I knew Vezo was town because of my knoweldge of him being Monk/Mason. Therefore, all I said, was that

IF

there was scum amongst the three, it was daniel. This was, IIRC before I made my monk claim, and I was still trying to hint at it, without having to make the claim. Since it was still a giant cluster fuck and vezo went ahead and full claimed Monk/Mason, I then claimed to clear it up.

1. You just misrep me there.. I accused you of tunneling Midnight's Sorrow Day 2, not Day 1.

How on earth can I be tunneling MS day 2, I'm not even voting him! We must have completely different opinions on what tunneling is. I see tunneling someone as focusing on them to the exclusion of anyone else. Clearly I'm not doing that, as I'm working on the nhammen/Socrates situation as well as MS. For an example of tunneling, see Parama.

@Experience players: Am I wrong about "tunneling"? I'm engaging in talk with nhammen, Socrates, and MS. Is this really tunneling? I need some help hear, I feel like I'm arguing with idiots.

@Socrates: He isn't dead because most of us feel that we need to clear up the nhammen/YOU situation. That said, I'd really like Shrinehime to answer to the charges leveled at Sevis. He is definitely on my scum list, and I would not be opposed to a lynch on him. I just don't think leaving nhammen/YOU unresolved is good for us, since we'll just spend D3 going over this all again.

[Socrates]

@Experience players: Am I wrong about "tunneling"? I'm engaging in talk with nhammen, Socrates, and MS. Is this really tunneling? I need some help hear, I feel like I'm arguing with idiots.

Tunnel is another word I really need to add to my list. That really sums up my feelings on the matter.

@Socrates: He isn't dead because most of us feel that we need to clear up the nhammen/YOU situation. That said, I'd really like Shrinehime to answer to the charges leveled at Sevis. He is definitely on my scum list, and I would not be opposed to a lynch on him. I just don't think leaving nhammen/YOU unresolved is good for us, since we'll just spend D3 going over this all again.

Lynching Nhammen or me wont actually "clear" anything up at all. His flip, town or scum, won't say anything about me, nor I him. Vote for the person you think is most likely scum, not this settle the matter bullshit. I feel like every time I have seen this "we need to settle X", it has led to townies dieing.

[Midnight's Sorrow]

Vote:Sevis

Because Vi had strong scum vibes from him. And after ISOing Sevis. I agree.

Also GL SGR ^^

How much more immediate can it get than his first post of that day? It was even the 5th overall post of the day. Why not ask some probing questions of Sevis? Why not discuss the case from the day before? Once it's clear we're getting a Sevis replacement, why not wait to hear from Sevis replacement? If all he is going off is the case from D1, then why wasn't he with us on D1? Why wait for the NK and the WIFOM to be convinced? Both MS' play and his WORDS say that he is basing his case on the Vi NK.

If you even bother to look at the time stamps you'd know it wasn't immediate >.< I can read pretty fast, but hell to the freaking no can I read that many pages in a *Snap* like that... It was a hour or two.

Stop saying I immediately jumped on it because of my first post being my vote on him.

THAT

is stupid. Sorry~

[Shrinehme]

What stands out and doesn't sit right with me:

And if nhammen flips Town Roleblocker???

The one to hammer will surely die next day phase.

I don't understand. It's not true, at least in my experience, that the Town goes and lynches someone JUST for hammering a Townsperson. Everyone on the wagon is responsible for the lynch.

It just looks like you're just slipping this in to discourage a Nhammen lynch without going out of your way to explicitly defend him [but you do that also, so meh].

Also agree with this regarding the post.

[Shrinehme]

That said, I'd really like Shrinehime to answer to the charges leveled at Sevis.

um.

Q:

Why have we waited until Sevis is unable to defend himself to suddenly bring up these accusations?

It's terribly convenient.