Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Parama]

I find you third party because [RESPONSE REMOVED]

Fate is something not dangerous to town, some 3rd party that doesn't prevent town from winning.
However, you do have a wincon that prevents town from winning, thus you are a threat.

[CryMeARiver]

Ok, you can try to lynch me, heck, mafia can even try to kill me, but I can only die one way, and I kind of control that, so have fun trying to get rid of me. And no, I'm not third party, but rather important to the town.
To all of Iec's suspicion, yes, I have been more insincere in this game and, while it doesn't quite fit my town meta, it definitely doesn't fit my scum meta if you check any of my scum games. It just fits my "struggling to keep up" meta. So I agree with an Orto lynch, even though he probably, like me, is just struggling to keep up. Isn't this fun guys?

Vote: CMAR

YAY! MY FIRST EVER SELF VOTE!

[dramonic]

=_=
wrong format, wrong target
seriously CMAR.

[CryMeARiver]

=_=
wrong format, wrong target
seriously CMAR.

Vote: CMAR

wrong target?

[Parama]

Wrong target? Aren't we making Orto into a corpse?

[dramonic]

oh, lol nevermind.
I forgot the one two below CMAR was orto since I don't need to keep track of that stuff <<

[SpyreX]

Ok, you can try to lynch me, heck, mafia can even try to kill me, but I can only die one way, and I kind of control that, so have fun trying to get rid of me. And no, I'm not third party, but rather important to the town.
To all of Iec's suspicion, yes, I have been more insincere in this game and, while it doesn't quite fit my town meta, it definitely doesn't fit my scum meta if you check any of my scum games. It just fits my "struggling to keep up" meta. So I agree with an Orto lynch, even though he probably, like me, is just struggling to keep up. Isn't this fun guys?

What in the HELL IS THIS.

Seriously.

Ohh this day needs to end. Sooner versus later.

[Parama]

Unlynchable NK-immune Unlimited Dayvig with Mason Powers?

[Mina]

Dramonic, I'm just curious. Who are your suspects right now, other than ortolan?

Sorry. Still waiting on something before I end the day. Show a little patience, why don't you? ort is likely scum because no one's claimed to have recruited him, but why does it matter if we lynch him today or tomorrow?

I don't think that MO should be that confident in my alignment...but I'm not scum anyway, so it's all good.

FWIW, the "fuck you, SpyreX" wasn't serious--there was a comment in my mind at the end there.

SpyreX was acting pretty shady (role reveal aside) during the middle of Day One. And his response to Iec's catch on ABR made me more confident that they were partners. "Hmm, that was an interesting find. Maybe I'll pay attention to it." (*never pays attention to it*)

What first made me doubt my conspiracy theories was that on a reread, SX is practically gnashing his teeth at all the people calling me town. Seriously, you can feel the heat of his blood boiling. That's me when I'm totally sure I'm right and everyone else dismisses me as crazy. And he's come across as a lot more natural in his posts today.

I'm sorry. I wrote a huge temper tantrum and deleted it. But right now, I am not in a happy place. I'm playing an utterly shit game this week because I'm trying to scumhunt and defend myself at the same time and doing a half-assed job of both. It's not that I'm ignoring the cases on me (I've had half-finished responses to Starbuck's and ooba's posts saved in Gmail for days); it's that I'm too slow to keep up with everything I've missed and falling asleep in the middle of writing posts, and when I

do

post, people don't like the walls so I feel guilty using my time to defend myself.

Seriously, do people

want

me to defend myself now, or would they rather I just give reads and comment on the scummy posts I've missed?

[SpyreX]

Or sure whatever works. That is a great vig shot TIA.

Flip will be correct so sayith the mod.

[SpyreX]

Mina here's my #1 Hi-C tip for right now:

You're not getting lynched today. Go on the offensive. A night may bring a myriad of things and having the offensive side down if you are town is WAY more important than the defensive at this juncture.

Further, offense isn't going to cause near as much white noise.

lynching ort NOW versus later is good because there's a nice nugget that fell through AND 30 pages is pushing the absolute edge of "a good day one" and not "kill me now pleaselordpleasepleaseplease day one."

I dont want the latter.

Sometimes a mislynch is better than 30 more pages leading to a right lynch on day one YEA I SAID IT.

[SpyreX]

* correct as far in I AM NOT CAUSING IT TO BE WRONG.

[Mighty Orbots]

@SpyreX, that is what we're defending yes. Actually, I don't think any reasonable scum would have made that last unvote so I'd be happy enough with it anyhow but that's beside the point.

@Mina, let us worry about our reads. And SpyreX is right, you should be attacking not defending now. Find scum; that's how town wins these things.

@SaintKerrigan, I'll start with the more important thing. There's no way that you should hold off voting for someone you find scummy in a large game because you're worried that they've got some role where getting lynched helps them. It's just not going to happen enough to be worthwhile and it's much better to try to lynch people that you think are acting scummy. I strongly suggest you drop that line of reluctance to lynch.

As for your focus on the worship votes, I didn't say you weren't looking at anything else, you are. In fact, since I made my post you've been pretty good at looking at other things. Prior to my post though you had at least as much talk about the worship dynamic as any scum hunting. You also clearly hadn't dropped it when I made that post as the last post you had prior to that was Post 538 which I'd hardly call having dropped the topic. I do pay some attention to what happens in these games.

Regarding DTMaster and his claimed post restriction, he was the one that said that he'd have the post restriction confirmed with his first infraction. That clearly hasn't happened. Dropping details like that lets scum get away with things that I'd rather not let them get away with. In this case there are enough reasons not to be putting direct pressure on him that I'm not planning to but it's not something which should be ignored in the long run.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Mina]

This might sound silly, SpyreX, but I really appreciate you talking to me as though I'm not confirmed scum.

I agree with you and MO on offensive vs. defensive. It's just that Starbuck and ooba accused me of trying to weasel out of their cases on me by not answering them right away. Day Two it is.

As you've probably noticed, I have a high threshhold of patience for long day ones and battling quote walls, so I generally prefer using our time to get as much information as possible. Normally, I'd have my doubts on the ort wagon because it grew so easily, but the lack of a recruiter-claim makes him very likely scum...

...Hold on.

I needed to check something before I revote anyway, but I just thought of something.

How patient are people willing to be? Because it would be a very, VERY good idea for ortolan to claim who recruited him, first. Or to force a replacement to claim for him instead.

A VERY good idea.

[SpyreX]

My patience isn't high. I have some though. I kinda see where your going with this BUT its still operating under the assumation there is ties between recruiter and recruited that I have never been sold on.

And no need to thank me - even if you are scum the offensive is FAR more useful down the road than defensive.

[Mina]

Hmm. DTM confirmed there was

some

link, but...wait. I just realized recruiter and recruitee don't necessarily have the same win conditions.

Either way, ort's claim would probably tell us a lot more if he flips town than if he flips scum.

Question to players who've played with ort before: is he the one you'd have recruited from that list, as scum or town? The one game I've seen him play (Gonzo Mafia), he was lynched on D1 as scum.

[Plum]

Yeah I'd recruit Ort in that situation.

[DTMaster]

Fuck. First Immediate Concerns, then going to go over my rainbow flags from yesterday.

@MO
1. Troll I got a formal warning. I lost my powers of QT. Do you want me to confirm via my link? It's kind of obvious who recruited me.

I thought I would get a rules infraction from breaking my PR, but I got a formal warning via PM. If you don't believe me fine, but you should realize that I pretty much baked a loaf and crumbed you my role.

@CryMeARiver
1. You do realize that with claims like that, it defeats the purpose of you, who hints at bullet proof, to claim such invulnerability like that. (Yes I'm Ignoring Tar's claim of BP and no I won't cross refrence to why Tar's claim is better then yours. It should be obvious why I wouldn't address Tar.)

@Starbuck
Sorry, I only skimmed over the posts in the MSUtility search. You'd see that I applied the same grace to Snowbunny who' also went V/LA.

@Ortolan Case
I just MSUltilitied Search. I see why this wagon is going strong.

Here's a collection of GD posts he's been posting elsewhere.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 45#2294345
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 44#2294344
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 50#2294150
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 56#2292756
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 60#2289760

He's pretty much ignoring this game. Aside from Scummers Mafia, it appears that this is his only commitment. But he's dead there.

@SK
I'm curious now. I called CMAR out on active lurking. That's not a justifiable reason for my vote? Wut? A large part of the Ortlan case is this very argument, as Fate said.

In fact, I caught you out on this in Fire and Ice. Yes I just used a meta argument of you to impose on CMAR and Ort, but since when did: CMAR blatantly posting in other games after his "I'll catch up post" become a null-tell for any person?

@Alba
Only if the true flip flips town. With a lynch, we'll find out Day 2.

@Mina
Is it me, or did that post send shivers down my spine. I don't know, but I'd totally investigate you just for that post alone.

Edit: I share the same win con as my recruiter, just FYI. Your suspicions are found in cases with neighbours. But say: a Mason is different since those are mod confirmed. (ongoing game of mine had a mason recruiter to a specific person, someone here also was in that game).

@Plum
I had to reread that double negative for it to sink in. I hate your double negatives. /off topic.

@SB
You're forgetting that detail where I mentioned I had a QT and I "lost my ability to use the QT" with my recruiter.

@Darkstalker
Generally when a lyncher wins, he leaves the game and just wins for himself. So in a way it's a double edged sword for town.

Tar is lyncher to Godfather which is good.
But Tar leaves if he wins, which acts as an extra kill and a loss of a vote.

I have a game where a pair of lynchers won, and I had drawn lovers. Town auto lossed because: the lynchers won, a townie died (so 3 people got eliminated on d1). Both lovers were town so that's an extra 2 townies for scum and it was delicious for them since it was a 12 page game.

So yeah: with lynchers, generally scum wants them to win to reduce the player count faster. In this case, it's a double edge sword.)

@ Town
1. Since we're on this subject, just a reminder the ability kills take an extra phase to resolve. Ie. If Ortolan was day killed at this very moment, we wouldn't find out till Day 3. As opposed to the lynches which resolve on Day 2. Keep that in mind

Now off to the flags to reread. I'll vote Ortolan once I post my final thoughts.

[DTMaster]

Fuck. In response's to mina's question. I'd recruit Benmage to the current list. Or I'd ask if Vi would play this game at my request off that list.

[DTMaster]

Actually. Fuck. I change my mind on the mina point. It reads more eagerness when I reread it again and I let it sit in a little.

Off the Investigation list.

[Iecerint]

I totally don't believe that CMAR is 100% death-proof town. That is too dumb for words. And we already have Tar's NK-proof claim.

Death-proof 3rd party, maybe. But there are too many of those posited already.

On the other hand, I don't really see CMAR as someone who would claim something like that unless it were a joke.

So I agree with an Orto lynch, even though he probably, like me, is just struggling to keep up.

Back on the original hand, this is awful. I doubt he's even reading the thread in more than a ctrl+f "CMAR" fashion.

CMAR, please supply the scumCMAR meta you allude to.

[SaintKerrigan]

@SaintKerrigan, I'll start with the more important thing. There's no way that you should hold off voting for someone you find scummy in a large game because you're worried that they've got some role where getting lynched helps them. It's just not going to happen enough to be worthwhile and it's much better to try to lynch people that you think are acting scummy. I strongly suggest you drop that line of reluctance to lynch.

I never said I'd never be willing to lynch Fate. I'm just not going to do it on D1, especially when there's better fish to fry.

As for your focus on the worship votes, I didn't say you weren't looking at anything else, you are. In fact, since I made my post you've been pretty good at looking at other things. Prior to my post though you had at least as much talk about the worship dynamic as any scum hunting. You also clearly hadn't dropped it when I made that post as the last post you had prior to that was Post 538 which I'd hardly call having dropped the topic. I do pay some attention to what happens in these games.

I was doing a fair amount of scumhunting before your post. Just because I talk a bunch about worship stuff doesn't mean I'm also not scumhunting.

Regarding DTMaster and his claimed post restriction, he was the one that said that he'd have the post restriction confirmed with his first infraction. That clearly hasn't happened. Dropping details like that lets scum get away with things that I'd rather not let them get away with. In this case there are enough reasons not to be putting direct pressure on him that I'm not planning to but it's not something which should be ignored in the long run.

It's something to keep an eye on. But since it's not in the rules, it's less likely to happen that way.

@SK
I'm curious now. I called CMAR out on active lurking. That's not a justifiable reason for my vote? Wut? A large part of the Ortlan case is this very argument, as Fate said.

In fact, I caught you out on this in Fire and Ice. Yes I just used a meta argument of you to impose on CMAR and Ort, but since when did: CMAR blatantly posting in other games after his "I'll catch up post" become a null-tell for any person?

No, he reads like a person who's behind in a high-post game and is having a hell of a time keeping up. I know what that's like. I'd link you, but it's an ongoing game.

[Fate]

I never said I'd never be willing to lynch Fate. I'm just not going to do it on D1, especially when there's better fish to fry.

Better fish to fry than someone who is acting so scummy you're only explanation is that he's a jester?

MOAR LULZ.

We can dance another day though, SK, agreed.

Also, sig, sadly.

[Tarhalindur]

I'm not even going to bother with idiots asking whether I'd accounted for the Ozmodiar effect when clearing DTMaster. I mean, seriously, it's bloody obvious enough what's going on as it is. Cunts.

I LIKE the CMAR wagon - I hadn't noticed him before now, and I've found over time that joking is a HUGE scumtell. (Especially when a partially-completed total read indicates that he's not generally this jokey as town - IIoA warning bell right there.)

Unvote, Vote: albatross

(CMAR)

I'm wary of the ortolan wagon, especially since I sincerely doubt he's the Godfather. I'll run a meta on him again when I get a bit more time to double-check (if he's frustrated with wagons on him as town, NO WAY he's scum). I DO NOT want a lynch right now, at any rate.

As for SaintKerrigan: Gut read is gut. Gunshots are awesome. I'll comment more once I'm done reading over your completed games.

SpyreX: Would you describe deity stuff as being closer to Outsiders in Legacy of the Ancients or Minbari in Babylon 5: Severed Dreams?

Also going to start mulling over when to massclaim. D1 isn't out of the question given the likely complexity level.

(Note on gods: I'm not totally sure on worship yet - either Old Ones or Egyptian gods, leaning the former.)

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR is probably still scum, though.

Haha

Good luck trying to lynch me, you witless cockroach.