Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Nikanor]

700.

[Nikanor]

Erm, wrong game. >_>

[Fate]

Mhmmm.

Nikanor, Old Gods right?

Chronopie, you got major town points for that post, thanks for explaining your choice.

[Iecerint]

@ Alba -- "ABR is probably a 3rd party who is manipulating us to vote against the Norse for his own ends, but it's unlikely to matter in the grand scheme of things" <- minor edit to one of Fate's summary points.

Is the point about not worshiping JC just based on flavor, or is there a particular reason they shouldn't be worshipped?

@ ooba, he could have meant either. My personal guess is that he misunderstood the worship mechanic (just like ABR did; they may have similar PMs) and literally meant we shouldn't worship ABR.

My bad re: your voting. I had erroneously remembered you voted me in the first post, then switched to Mina in the post where you added the Katy parts. Which is part of why I thought it was weird. But it looks like you didn't vote at all in the first post, so there was just the Mina vote.

Your theory that I am in some way Mystery Man/Sky (I think that's your theory?) is very unlikely. First, it would require that I staged a series of exchanges between myself and Sky in QT, which is kinda a stretch. Second, I explicitly stated in QT that I was not Sky, which is against the spirit of Kinetic specifying that we have to identify ourselves if we post in the QT. You also know that at least one player who is neither Sky nor myself has access to the QT, so he/she/they could correct me if I were lying. The only circumstance where they wouldn't would be if they were scum with me, in which case I again wouldn't be 3rd party, etc.

[Iecerint]

I wonder if I should ask ABR to state who Sky is. If he fails to name someone on my list, that would mean he was just bluffing. It may also mean that he had been trying to support the theory that he was 3rd party.

(The algorithm that came up with who was on the list is not very fungible, so you don't have to worry about that.)

[Iecerint]

Weird observation:

<2> Lynch Reveals: When a player is lynched, immediately after the Lynch Count is reached the lynched player will be targeted by a mod-confirmed SANE role cop investigation and a mod-confirmed SANE alignment cop investigation with the results being revealed before the night phase. After the Night Phase the lynched player will be killed and their mod-confirmed true alignment and role name will be revealed during the Daybreak.

But the only claimed miller is Tar, I think? So maybe scum can temporarily GF or frame under certain conditions?

[Fate]

Look at Iec with his speculation fail, how cute.

Is your vote on Orto yet Iec?

[Iecerint]

What's fail about that?

No, I'm still voting CMAR. If I were to change my vote to someone, it would be O.

[Fate]

Iec someone else said earlier that you want Orto to contribute more before you vote him, but your interaction with CMAR who has said far less is: HE SCUM! HE DIE!

You displease me. Move it to Orto before I focus my laser beams on you.

[Fate]

Its fail because you assume there are no secret-millers, or people not D1 claiming miller, etc. etc.

[totallynotmafia]

@totallynotmafia, you've pretty claim affiliation in some way with one of the pantheons. Do you know which players are in that pantheon at this point? I think I should know the answer based on what others are saying about other things but I'd like to have you confirm it.

No, i don't know who else is affiliated with the same gods as me, I just know that if my gods have the worship it affects my role.

[Plum]

We knew Iec's position re Ort re CMAR seemed COGNITIVELY DISSONANT and insincere. That said I'd be happy to see him vote Ort; don't look a scum bussing in the mouth and whatnot (so far as we can see).

[Iecerint]

1. Secret millers in a non-bastard game?
2. Town millers not claiming it D1?
3. I can't really argue with "etc. etc."

O has 3 posts; CMAR has 12 posts. Granted, O does have more actual content in his posts (i.e. O has 2 posts with serious content; CMAR has none unless you count his RVS).

I have no idea what Plum is talking about. I would love for her to be a little more specific.

[Plum]

1. CMAR has posted no more content than Ort and has shown no more willingness to participate than Ort.

2. Iec acknowledges that Ort has committed actual bad deeds which are scummy, like misrepresenting Fate's case against him. He believes that CMAR's posting tone contrasts with his Town meta for posting tone.

3. It is seen: Iec prefers to vote CMAR on charges no greater, and probably slighter than the charges he admits on Ort.

4. It is seen: Iec is unwilling to vote Ort until he produces more content but is perfectly willing to vote CMAR who has produced as little in terms of both content and overall participation.

5. It is deduced: There is some artificial calculation going on here unrelated to pure Townie scumhunting.

Cognitive dissonance: 'I won't vote Ort until he shows more content but I'm happy to vote CMAR on similar if not lesser charges even though he's produced no more content than Ort.'

[Iecerint]

I've already told you that I misvigged O the last time I played with him. Mystery solved.

The conditions that would make me vote O at this point are not "moar content" per se, but rather either a deadline lynch or a satisfactory explanation from CMAR. Owagon is doing just fine without me.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Iec: Remind me again exactly what the difference between Ort and CMAR is? And don't give me "because I misvigged him in another game." That's a bad excuse.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@ Iec: Remind me again exactly what the difference between Ort and CMAR is? And don't give me "because I misvigged him in another game." That's a bad excuse.

None. Oh, ortolan got recruited and CMAR didn't. Woooh.

[CryMeARiver]

Holy shat, I get it guys, my content IS COMING TOMORROW.
Sigh

[Iecerint]

CMAR is a peppy schoolboy in every game I have played with him. Refer to Greek Mythology and Kingdom Hearts. I was actually thrilled when he replaced into Greek Mythology, because his tone made me get a town read on a player who had been neutral-to-scummy to me before that.

He's a little different in Plum's ongoing,

but it's ongoing, so I can't elaborate.

Looks like it just finished. In Behind the Scenes, where he plays from the start (more like this game), his posts are pro-town and content-rich, which departs favorably from his play here.

O is scummy, but he has in the past read scummy as town to me (hence the misvigging). So I'm more comfortable with my read on CMAR.

A possible confounding variable with my read on CMAR is that my only personal experience with him is as a replacement, but BtS mafia convinces me that that's not a major concern.

[SaintKerrigan]

P.S. People are ignoring me because a) I'm town, and b) The cases against me are so weak as to be not worth addressing.

At least your posting frequency is higher than Monks and Masons, so you've got that going for ya.

I have a feeling that ungod aligned people didn't worship last night (As I claimed), which brought the even split.

Why didn't you bother to check and see who actually wrote this?

Jester speculation is stupid, SK. Since it doesn't end the game you might as well lynch scummy people if not you let scum get away with murder. I don't really understand why you think Fate is a jester in the first place, Sk but yeah.

I explained it earlier. And it is relevant because if he is a jester or some other third party role then we have to treat him differently than scum.

Just saw this cos Plum quoted it, this would be bad, but I don't think so. That'd mean it'd take place on an already alive player wouldn't it? I'm kinda hoping this isn't the case cos well playing without any flips sucks.

If true the info would be on a living player. We'll still get the real flip, but not until at least a day later.

@ People harping on DTM for lack of "Rule Infractions": where in the rules does it state that rule infractions will be publicly noted? Hint: I couldn't find a rule that said that. So cut it out.

"RVS but you don't vote SK who you call scummy? Yes. Good job on the backtrack. Nice job. Voting for the RVS over your scummy read."
It seems DT has indeed pointed out your tar correction vote there was outside random and on someone you ndidn't think was scum when you really had a scum read elsewhere. Mo was not putting his vote where his mouth was which he complained about when yelling at DT in the first place which i find highly hypocritical. Yay I really want to vote Mighty orbits for this and if Iec's response to my early comments are good enough in terms of they make me lessen my earlier suspicions of him in favor of MO being worse at holding back a vote from Mo's main suspicions then i will move from Iec to voting Mighty Orbits. Until i decide to move vote or not Will def

My answer be summed up by saying MO did not actually think I was scummy at that time. If you make me I'll go find the post where he said it.

Edit: Looks like you took that back on Page 25.

Guys DTM is just looking for any excuse to find someone suspicious, do you really not see this?

Nope. Actually, this quote looks more suspicious. DTM at least mostly avoids looking opportunistic.

FoS: Parama

OK, so, here's

the other infodump

:

Someone posted anonymously in our QT shortly after it opened under the name "Sky." He asked which of the players in the QT had a specific rolename, and he told us that we shouldn't worship ABR. I said we shouldn't give information like that because we weren't certain town, and (because I suspected him specifically for his behavior) asked who he was; he responded by repeating my text back to me. Then Kinetic posted in the QT indicating that we could not post anonymously. He has not returned since then.

(This is the "Mystery Man" I was talking about earlier.)

Because Sky refused to reveal himself and jumped into the QT early with explicit rolefishing and all that, I was suspicious of him; so, based on the times when Sky posted in our QT, I came up with a shortlist of 6 likely suspects using msutils. My random vote (dram) reflects one of the 6 original suspects. I've reduced the list to 4 by now.

OK, fast forward to ABR's dramatic appearance:

Hello SK. I have something for you up there comrade.

Fate, I have an inquiry for you up there as well.

When I saw these crumbs, they reminded me of Sky, but ABR wasn't on my shortlist of Sky suspects. But it looked to me like ABR might be something similar to him because of the "up there" flavor of the crumb. So I added ABR to my list, but mostly wanted to keep watching to evaluate what was going on.

I am deliberating whether I want to stay in the

shadows

this game...

Bold not added, so another crumb from ABR, but this one makes him look like someone different from Sky ("shadow" flavor). Also, Sky's stipulation that we shouldn't worship ABR would work if they knew one another's roles and were opposed in some way.

I tried crumbing back to ABR to see if he was Sky, after all:

Hmm. So I guess you're saying you're also delirium-immune? Like you're just

way above

all these fancy vote mechanics?

Bold added. But he didn't respond, so I stuck with my ABR/Sky dichotomy.

Factor in that ABR has shown (IMO) disproportionate antagonism toward my perceived faction claim, and I came up with the following hypothesis:

ABR and Sky are 3rd party players who are each associated with specific factions. One of ABR's is GOO, one of Sky's is the Norse gods. Their win condition involves their associated faction(s) "beating" the opposing faction(s) in some way (whether by eliminating them, or by getting more worship than them, or some combination).

This is an expanded version of the "Universe A" I mentioned in the last infodump. I think this is more likely than Sky and ABR being opposing scum faction leaders ala WoT because the fact that they appear to know one another's roles would be difficult to balance.

(There's also still one more QT poster who has yet to explicitly deny that s/he was Sky. I think Kinetic wouldn't allow that kind of lie, since anonymous QT posting is apparently illegal for us, and that kind of lie would reinforce the anonymity of the posting. So I'd like for him or her to do as much in the QT ASAP. His or her failure to do as much is already evident to anyone with access to our QT, so it's not as if this is much of an extra risk to him or her. If s/he feels otherwise, s/he should indicate why/that s/he does not intend to do so.)

Buuuuuuuuuulllllllllshiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. You're reaching here. Minus points for you.

Well, we know now that ABR knows Sky and Sky knows ABR, and that they appear to be opposed. So that all fits with the 3rd party angle.

We also know that ABR crumbed to Fate and SK. So that also fits.

If Sky crumbed in other QTs, that would finish with the parallelism.

More minus points for you for keeping this alive.

Holy crap I forgot CMAR was in this game. Quick look at him shows lots of action on the first RL day of the game, and almost none (except a worship vote) after that. However, I can sympathize with having to catch up to all this, so I won't sling him for now.

DTM you can dance all the fuck you want around it but the FACT of the matter is you and Nikanor made some limp dick worship votes EARLY. WAY TOO EARLY.

Last I checked, Nik was still holding on to his worship vote. Unless Nik's lying (and it's possible), your kicking up dust with that side. Maybe you've got something with DTM.

Edit: Seems like you figured this out on your own. Good boy!

Finally noticed this Katy comment through browsing Nik's stuff.

Nikanor shouldn't have been voting for Mina JUST to get some sort of magical information, he should vote for her because he thinks she's scum.

This sounds

exactly

like something scum would say. Harp on the "reason" why townies should vote and leap on anything that doesn't fit. A nice mimicry of scumhunting, but it's not gonna fly.

MAJOR FoS: Katy

Leaning towards disagreeing with the tl;dr Mina assertion that Iec is town, but I still need to do that reread.


Alright, this is my catchup-post up to the end of Page 26. Will finish the rest of it tomorrow when I can think straight.

[SaintKerrigan]

@ Iec: And CMAR as town hasn't read scummy to you?

[Plum]

Iec: I'm not seeing a notable enough departure from his Day 1 play there to justify a scumread on what he's shown this game, you see.

[SpyreX]

Just so its clear again:

I am pretty damn sure the Endless are in the game (as in more than me). Considering what my factional worship gain is it will be very nice for them to have (and me, but them especially).

I see what you're saying MO and I kindaaa see where you're coming from but.

I like SK's last post quite a bit.

[Iecerint]

Nope, not in either of the two games I've played with him, and not in BtS, either (though I read that knowing his alignment). He's like HEY GUYS WANNA RIDE BIKES!, in the sense that he is extremely earnest. He is not that way here at all.

Confounding variables are that I had an innocent investigation on his slot in Greek Mythology, but he replaced a player so O.o that I nonetheless had bad feelings before CMAR joined.

Do you think my interpretation of ABR and Sky is scummy, or just reaching? Because it sounds like the former, which I need you to explain to me.

[Albatross]

Oh no! I feel so threatened!
inb4someseriousshittyassplayercomesinandruinsallthefun

You rang?

Vote: CryMeARiver

Question to DTMaster and Ortolan: do you know why were you both added to the game? Were you recruited by a specific faction?

Fun killer

Everyone knows you're either Cult, Doc, or Mafia Strongman, just give it up

This sounds like HEY GUYS WANNA RIDE BIKES! to me.

Basically what I am saying is that Iec is talking out of his ass with his CMAR meta. I've played with him before too and he hasn't deviated from his meta as much as Iec is making it out to be. He's just fallen behind.