Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Iecerint]

@ SX -- How is what I did any different from what any of the other players who had announced worship targets did?

[Iecerint]

I mean, the town motivation is obvious. TOWN DEMAND WORSHIP TARGETS. IEC GIVES HIS.

[Percy]

-DTM's claim is very premature. I don't know why he wanted to make it so clear that he is Hit Girl. The fact that he didn't get a rules infraction for his post where he doesn't swear makes me nervous. He did say:

I swore in all my posts except 1, which I got a formal warning.

...but I can't see it.
-Extremely defensive reaction from raj when called on his scumposting. First ortolan, now me - accusing me of going after an easy lynch on page 6 of a game with 27 players LOLWUT. Also, attitude towards worship is pretty terrible.

I'm saying Endless are part of Great Old Ones via worship list (I just thought we weren't on there) HOWEVER I do not know if they are the totality of Great Old Ones and every fiber of my being says that they aren't.

Noted.
-Please, DTM, stop with the walls of crap. Succinctness is next to townieness. When I see posts like this I just refuse to read them because seriously I don't know what even.
-Thanks Iec for the rolefishing links. I'm happy to treat rolefishing as anti-town, but not a scumtell.
-This post by SpyreX on Mina reinforces my townread on SpyreX. I agree with him about the cognitive dissonance; it's like a consistency tell, but it's stronger than that. When Mina tries to say that we shouldn't discuss the worship mechanic, that requires a particular mindset that is incompatible with someone who discusses the worship mechanic. The fact that these two contradictory ideas can be held in Mina's mind speaks to a shifting attitude based on convenience rather than an attempt to find scum. Mina's response is completely tangential to the point SpyreX was making - does she think we should talk about the worship mechanic, or not?
Also,

I really don't think your reasons are fair. I never said anything about not wanting to be accused of rolefishing at the time. I thought it was perfectly safe to discuss if the replacements were recruited but potentially dangerous to talk too much about the role of the gods in this game. It's not as if I have to be either totally open about role/set-up speculation or totally silent. Why can't there be a middle ground?

I'm more sympathetic to SpyreX's "cognitive dissonance" accusations.

(My emphasis)
Being sympathetic to a case against you without addressing it is very weird.

We're in the double digits and LOLNIKA hasn't comitted a scumtell yet and been obvious, so I'll lean town on him.

The opportunistic Mina vote for info got my hackles up...

@Spy: Mina is town. Cast thy nets elsewhere.

Interesting post from MO. Mina had been discussing DTM's interaction with MO, and it felt like Mina was assuming MO town as well. Interaction noted!
Vote Count weirdness:

14 Elscouta (1) -
15 DarkStalker (0) - CryMeARiver, SaintKerrigan
16 Snow_Bunny (1) - SpyreX, Nikator, Starbuck
17 Nikanor (2) -
18 Mina (3) - dramonic
19 SpyreX (0) -
20 Katy (0) -

If dramonic isn't affected by Delerium (which seems accurate), then the same must be true of one of {SpyreX, Nikanor, Starbuck}.

People claiming who they are going to worship is bad because they are probably going to worship their own faction, which gives insight to who is in what group.

As I said earlier, locking scum into claims now is good. We don't know if all gods are bad, or what kind of benefit people get if they're worshipped. We don't know the relationship between gods of the same pantheon. Leaving the scum alone with this information and not investigating it seems completely bizarre. There is important information to be gleaned, so let's get to gleaning, I say. Also, accusing Iecerint of claiming Norse God is misinformation - he answered the question, "who would you worship", not "who are you".
-This is a very nice catch from Fate. Ortolan characterised it as a lurker-vote, but it really isn't.

I am a bit suspicious of some people blindly following ABR like he's the messiah, but at the moment I don't see any harm in his plan.

Um, what? How is your attitude different from most people's? What do you think of ABR's town-leading plan, other than you "don't see any harm in it"?

I'm a miller

Combined with his impossible-to-back-out-of claim about "borrowed time", I'm very inclined to believe Tar.

The more they know about our worship votes, the more easily they can plan their strategy. I'd much rather prevent the scum from learning more info about our worship votes (and anything else in general) than is necessary.

The alternative is to not talk about worshipping, and have worship be effectively at random, I think, unless you are proposing a different alternative. Whilst it's true that not talking about worship prevents scum manipulation, I think it's better to try and look for scum manipulation than randomly empower particular pantheons.

And what's to say there isn't a scum ability to change people's worship votes?

Wouldn't it be better to confirm or discount this theory?
-Fate as third party makes a lot of sense. Fate needing to die also makes a lot of sense.

As for worship, I'm happy to worship anyone who puts forth the best campaign. I am especially willing to worship any gods who offer me cookies and/or magical powers.

I do like this plan, as scum who try to buy the town's worship vote will be held more accountable for their actions, and locking scumclaims down early is good etc.
-MO continues to insist that Mina is town here. I honestly don't get it - Mina is defending herself (mostly), so why does MO feel the need to defend her? Even if they (the hydra, that is) have seekrit info, surely this is premature...?

OK, up to post 450, can't do this any more, there are only so many times I can listen to Option Paralysis on repeat before I have to go do something else. I'll keep working on it when my brain isn't completely mafia'd out. I'll keep my vote on raj for now, but I'll state a proper case and vote someone with gusto in the next post. For now, I'm seeing something in the MO/Mina/Fate triangle, but I'm not sure what.

[Iecerint]

Ugh, site is slow. I think 2 of my posts never got through (like, I hit Preview instead). They were something like:

"SX, how is what I did any different from what those who claimed targets before me (Plum and Chrono and Fate and Percy)? Are ALL of us scummy (except Chrono, I guess) for "revealing" that we're Egyptian or GOO or Norse or whatever?

And the townsense is easy: TOWN DEMANDS WORSHIP TARGETS. IEC DELIVERS."

[Beholder]

Vote Count will be up sometime between now and Memorial Day. Yea.

[Fate]

Yo Fate:

You wanna gamble for the lynch today? Even's on Ice, Odds on Ort, a 10 is Mina?

HehheheHEHEHEHEHAHAA.

I'm down for the Gamble Alliance.

d10 = 1428029510

[Fate]

WELP THAT SETTLES THAT.

FATE

AND

FATE

WANT YOU DEAD NOW ORLO

[Fate]

Oh shit....

well I read all the posts after the Spyrex one I quoted, and holy hell.

Iecrint is flopping around like hell right now.

"But but!! I'm town! AND town motivations iz here! And your attack has "flaws" here!"

Iec the difference (to save Spy some time) is that everyone that "worship declared" before you did it BEFORE ABR CAME OUT WITH INFO! Your "random" (idk about the rest, but my choice was a RVS for the Gods equivalent) worship vote sticks out like a sore fucking thumb.

And now that Ooba has posted his FUCKING WIN CASE on you Mina and the gang I wouldn't be surprised if all three of the people Spy said he wanted to die via Dice roll are scum.

You can add Percy to that list of town now.

Someone just jumped on my Orlo wagon so I'll ride that one some more, but I'm now A-ok with Iec and Mina.

This thread needs more ABR responding to things.

[SaintKerrigan]

@SK: Why would you vote, unvote, and vote again in the same post? What is the purpose of that?

Because the first vote was a joke vote. Near the end of my post I put my vote back on someone I actually thought was scummy.

- This is all you get about the worship benefits in the OP : “Generally more worship is a good thing for the group receiving it. “

Did you even read Spyrex's post where he talks about his role/abilities? In either event, why is this scummy?

- SK has twice talked about the worship wincon - 104, 271. IMO it’s a slip.

Your first example is me thinking Fate had knowledge about worship wincons and trying to pry the info out of him. The second one was in response to Fate's speculation about worship wincons. Fail.

Try again when you've got something better, please.

- (Mina\Iece), SK, CMAR, MO, Parama, ortolan declare their worship targets in the thread. Lynch them if they've deviated from it.

I was about to tell you to go to hell, but my reply to Percy actually made me do a total mind shift.

The alternative is to not talk about worshipping, and have worship be effectively at random, I think, unless you are proposing a different alternative. Whilst it's true that not talking about worship prevents scum manipulation, I think it's better to try and look for scum manipulation than randomly empower particular pantheons.

Actually, this is a good point. If we know where everyone's votes have gone today and we get deviations from that, it may hint as to whether or not worship vote manipulation is in play. Okay, I'll go for this.

I intend to worship the Egyptian Gods.

Oh, and Fate? I said you were trying to die

without

making it obvious. So of course you'd try to appear like you were scumhunting, just to keep up the pretense.

Btw, why are people ignoring Nikanor?

[Albert B. Rampage]

People claiming who they are going to worship is bad because they are probably going to worship their own faction, which gives insight to who is in what group.

As I said earlier, locking scum into claims now is good. We don't know if all gods are bad, or what kind of benefit people get if they're worshipped. We don't know the relationship between gods of the same pantheon. Leaving the scum alone with this information and not investigating it seems completely bizarre. There is important information to be gleaned, so let's get to gleaning, I say.

The Gods of a pantheon supposedly know each other, as evidenced by Iecerint saying "I don't share a QT with you" in regards to Fate. They know who they are, which keeps them accountable to one another, but the scum might not. Therefore, gleaning information on this issue is tantamount to role-fishing in the dark with no town benefiting end in sight.

However, I would be curious to know how ortolan and DTM got added to this game because that would be a clear hint to their alignment for me. Locking them into claiming who recruited them or what happened with them would, in this case, be a good thing in my opinion.

[Albert B. Rampage]

@ABR: Why did you say that you didn't need to be targetted by any pro-town forces instead of just saying you didn't need any doc protection? The way you said it seems like you are trying to deter cop investigations and the like as well.

You don't want to know...

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR, please give your plan and lets move forward. PLEASE.

Find someone the majority agrees to lynch and we'll move to the next phase of my plan...

[DTMaster]

@Percy
1. I know you come from the same vain as UK in terms of succinctness, like fucking god. If you fucking don't bother reading my posts,

it's bloody your fault and you ignore my scum hunting efforts

. You should be worried on

what I post, not how I post

If it'll make you feel better, I'll link rather then quote strip because I know how this bothers you from Disgeia. /personal rant and chance to swear.

PS. I'm reading your 527 am I? It's about the same length and same type of wall that you are complaining about. By your logic I should ignore it as well because it's too bothersome for me to read. Here is also a wall made by Starbuck or Ice This point deserves a DTM level insult attack combined with, my scumanalysis! Yay.

However, this really isn't an indicator of scuminess since it's de ja vu of a Disgeia. It's more so my personal rant. On to the actual stuff!

2. Spy/Nik/Starbuck aren't immune. I'll quote.

14 Elscouta (1) -
15 DarkStalker (0) - CryMeARiver, SaintKerrigan
16 Snow_Bunny (1) - SpyreX, Nikator, Starbuck
17 Nikanor (2) -
18 Mina (3) - dramonic
19 SpyreX (0) -
20 Katy (0) -

Count 2 down from that spot. 3 is on Mina. We might have an invis voter, or a double voter with some kind of shadow vote.

@Percy/SK
1. Question: How does deviating from a god faction find scum? I don't see why scum would lie about their worshiping, especially with the ambiguous nature of the 4 listed now. It doesn't mean that 1 god faction is scum. Also see my Albert 2.

(Theory: Gods are separate factions from men, and each worship faction is its own thing. But they don't have to be scum. Scum could be scattered as infiltrators, as in: a scum god, but town worshipers, etc...)

It'll be too easy, and not Tar enough if an entire faction was found out like that.

@SK
1. I'm not ignoring Nik, I took a break and put a self note to address Nik because I missed something. :S

@Ooba
1. Worship can benefit town/scum, we don't know this. See the number 2 in Albert.

@Ice
Whoa whoa whoa this is scummmdeeeeyyy. But Fate and Spy beat me to the punch. Ice, since when were we speed lynching someone? Also Ice? Why can't we bandwagon. I like people who are under pressure. Scum squirm lots under pressure, and you can see it in the panic in their eyes.

@Kathy
1. Whoa. You ignored, like the latter half of Nik's posts. Like his serious vote on Mina and his reaction fishing of Parama.

Your case on Nikanor is about as weak as a spent cock. I don't like it. It makes Ooba/Fate's case more credible on that triangle of scummmmmdar.

@Totally
1. :S I don't like your point about convoluting the game. There are 28 players. If more then half of them are active and each person posts once an hour, thats more then a page per person to post ratio.

2. If you let MO use this argument for himself, then every argument that back fires on MO can be escaped by: MY OTHER HYDRA DID IT. LOOK HE DIDN'T SIGN HIS NAME.

3. Wow.Chrono is scummy how for thinking those factions are cool? You didn't like it apparently. I take it as a weak bread crumb or some guy who's probably not aligned and is random worshipping. Since when did the Norse Gods or the Egyption gods become scummy for you to dislike someone worshiping them.

Like that's totally fucking, crazy and reeks of Paranoia beyond SK's level.

@Mina
1. About your wut? statement when I claimed there is a mafia god father and Nikanor/Parama calling each other 3rd party gods, see Albert 2. However with Albert revealing that they know each other, this theory is debunked.

The whole 3rd party thing was weird for both of them to throw at each other.

2. Forgot about this. J-scope has dropped down from shooting level and I'll reread Faraday now.

@Albert
1. I'd only claim when the time is right or if my recruiter wants me to. But by now my recruiter is painfully obvious. We share similar traits, quite literally. I have an awesome claim to back it up.

I'll give you a hint: good things happen when the god father gets lynched.

To make it more obvious: There is a reason why I know there is a Mafia Godfather in the game.

To make it even more obvious: Daddy. Duhh.

2. If the gods know each other it brings credit to: the worship is a separate function within the town, but not necessarily a division between scum/town where gods is one and men are the other. That and it's weird that I'm told there's only a mafia god father, rather then X Faction Mafia Godfather.

Aside: 2. Refer back to Defence of the Ancient Mafia and the council, you might have some gods who defected to be ebil.

Note to self: Finish responses to Raj/Dark/Mina/SK/Nik

Reread Starbuck/Kathy/ABR.

Revising shoot list: Upgrading Kathy to said list.

Going to work. Toodles.

Wondering what I did? I read backwords.

[SaintKerrigan]

1. Question: How does deviating from a god faction find scum? I don't see why scum would lie about their worshiping, especially with the ambiguous nature of the 4 listed now. It doesn't mean that 1 god faction is scum. Also see my Albert 2.

I'm doing this mostly to see if scum have the ability to change worship votes. If people all say who they're going to worship and the percentages/ABR's worship vote chart say people did otherwise, we either have liars or people who can change worship votes. It'll give us info to work with.

[Iecerint]

My preference is to hear ABR's two faction targets before the next infodump, but I'll infodump without it if necessary.

I have never claimed that my Norse worship vote is random. I have in fact claimed that I claimed it for specific reasons.

No, wanting to end the day early is scummy (even though I don't think SX is scum).

There is no flip-flop; this has been my position all game.

[Iecerint]

Your "random" (idk about the rest, but my choice was a RVS for the Gods equivalent)....

Why'd you misrepresent your reason as arbitrary rather than random, then?

[SpyreX]

Ohh and for the record: I'm prettyyyy sure I'd qualify as a God. I have no QT.

I find it interesting in that weird way that Percy calls out DTM for "walls" in a wall-post. The saving grace is I like both what DTM and Percy have to say (when DTM isn't focusing on his PR at least).

[DTMaster]

@Work, quick break

@SK
Ok, therefore before we reach a lynch, we should have everyone claim their worships to make this analysis work. Since I don't have a prefrence I'll worship the following deity using dice.

Original Roll String: 1d4

1 4-Sided Dice: (1) = 1

[DTMaster]

Norse gods win! Sending it in.

[DTMaster]

EBWOP: oh fuck. I typed too quickly without swearing! Nooooo Kinetic! Be kind to this cunt sucking hit girl!

[Beholder]

Day 1, Vote Count 9

The Crumbling Waste

Within the core of Sanctuary the remnants begin their struggle anew...

1 Starbuck ( 0 ) -
2 Faraday ( 0 ) -
3 ABR ( 0 ) -
4 manho ( 0 ) -
5 dramonic ( 0 ) - Ortolan, S_B
6 chronopie ( 0 ) -
7 Fate ( 2 ) - Chronopie, Elscouta
8 ooba ( 0 ) - DTM
9 Mighty Orbots ( 2 ) -
10 Parama ( 1 ) -
11 Plum ( 0 ) - raj
12 totallynotmafia ( 0 ) -
13 SaintKerrigan ( 1 ) -
14 Elscouta ( 0 ) -
15 DarkStalker ( 0 ) - CryMeARiver, SaintKerrigan
16 Snow_Bunny ( 1 ) - Nikator, Starbuck, manho, ooba
17 Nikanor ( 2 ) -
18 Mina ( 4 ) - dramonic
19 SpyreX ( 0 ) -
20 Katy ( 0 ) -
21 Tarhalindur ( 0 ) -
22 Percy ( 0 ) - Percy
23 Kairyuu ( 0 ) - ooba, Iece
24 rajrhcpfreak ( 1 ) - Faraday, Rampage, DarkStalker
25 CryMeARiver ( 2 ) - Fate, Mina, Plum, SpyreX, totallynotmafia
26 Iecerint ( 3 ) - Mighty Mighty Mighty Orbots, Parama
27 Ortolan ( 5 ) -
28 DTMaster ( 2 ) -

Votes Required to Lynch: 15
Not Voting: 2

[Iecerint]

Ohh and for the record: I'm prettyyyy sure I'd qualify as a God. I have no QT.

Hmm? Didn't you earlier speculate that other Endless were in the game?

But I guess that lessens the likelihood of my assumption that scum have daytalk.

[SpyreX]

There BETTER be other endless in the game or my role doesn't make "the sense".

Regardless, no QT

[Nikanor]

Maybe dramonic's vote goes up two spaces.

Unvote. Vote: CMAR

(ortolan).
I could lynch every lurker in this topic and still not be satisfied. At this point I just want the day to be over.

P.S. People are ignoring me because a) I'm town, and b) The cases against me are so weak as to be not worth addressing.

[Nikanor]

Also, just to confirm: Our worship goes to exactly the person we vote for, right? I think I'm going to send mine in now.