Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Chronopie]

So Tar is a 1? 2? shot BP miller, With a required kill win/loss condition, with other stuff to disclose? Man? God? /totally-not-rolefish

DTM is a PR enforcer cusser.

Did I miss anything?

[ortolan]

excellent, the site is no longer lagging so I can read this game.

My wagon will never take off if big names like you lean town on me, Troll.

Strong potential distancing.

I didn't worship last night and I'm not required to follow any gods. I actually forgot about the worship mechanic. V.V. I'm busy trying to juggle my other games atm.

This is interesting and I'll confirm that I also didn't worship (because I cannot).

Oh yeah last night I recieved a note when I came in. There is a mafia faction, and I highly think it's a single mafia faction and it has a Godfather. Yes I'm claiming role related information nao in Alice in Wonderland Style.

This is also very interesting.

are you really going to pick and choose from my quote? right before my post 85 i said i was stupid and i messed up on the purpose of plum's selfvote. i didnt realize that the vote was being bumped down two players.

OMGUS or not his reasoning is fallible. lets go slowly for you to understand..

1. he first blames it on random vote. i do detest random votes but thats a losing battle.
2. what better way to random vote than to place a vote and it magicly moves it to another player.
3. apparently the random random vote isnt good enough for SK so he unvotes and rerandom votes.

now lets make some conclusions:
1. since his vote really isnt random then there is somthing behind his votes.
i can only conclude that he has some reason to vote for me, or he has a reason not to vote for Iecerint. i wont go into the the many WIFOM options that we can go from that, but in the end he is lying about his random vote.

is this OMGUS? well is it ok to attack a person that you know is innocent for intentially voting for them but hiding it as a random vote? yes as long as its not yourself aparently. is he scum? possibly. enough for me to call him out on it and give him a vote. its not like any of his votes have been pro town anyways.

I really don't like this as a case. Although the fact raj reacted strongly to my attack on him despite the fact I didn't vote him is a bit town.

I honestly just skimmed the game, I can't be bothered reading all those posts and if anything they will make my scumdar less accurate. Why are three of you complete fools voting me for no reason? "Lurking"? You realise the game has been open like a day and the previous few times I tried to reread the game the fucking site was unusable? Sigh, I should never be surprised at the idiotic reasons I get voted on this site, it just gets frustrating after a while. Anyway, does anyone have any good reasons not to lynch Fate (is there any reason he is voting me besides the fact I am voting him [no]. Oh wait there is no coherent reason anyone is voting me, but I knew that already).

[Fate]

OH JOY ORLOTAN WANTS TO DO THE DANCE.

THIS WILL END WELL.

[Parama]

Also, why Parama, and why should we wait until Day Four to lynch her?

I have my gender displayed under my avatar, please never get it wrong again.

This is all I have to say at the time because there's too much for me to catch up with in the next 7 minutes.

[Fate]

Strong potential distancing.

Lack of showing evidence for MO scum (who is required to be scum as well for me to be ale to distance) or even commenting on his wagon

This is also very interesting.

This is also very fluffy.

I really don't like this as a case. Although the fact raj reacted strongly to my attack on him despite the fact I didn't vote him is a bit town.

Are you making up towntells now? When the fuck did overreacting to attacks become townie? SCUM get all ancy in their pants when someone even THINKS about looking their way suspiciously.

I honestly just skimmed the game, I can't be bothered reading all those posts and if anything they will make my scumdar less accurate. Why are three of you complete fools voting me for no reason?

1. I'm so cool and bold I'll say I don't read the game carefully look at how cool I am I'm a skimmer, there's no way scum would admit to not reading. Yeah.
2. OH WAIT BUT I DID READ 3 VOTES ON ME WTF Y U VOTIN ME? [Insert incorrect reasons for said players voting him] YOU COMPLETE FOOLS!!

Sigh, I should never be surprised at the idiotic reasons I get voted on this site, it just gets frustrating after a while.

WHAT THE FUCK GUIZ I MADE ONE POST AND UR VOTING ME? THATS BULLSHIT I MAD CUZ I THOUGHT POSTIN LESS WOULD HELP ME SLIP BY.

Anyway, does anyone have any good reasons not to lynch Fate (is there any reason he is voting me besides the fact I am voting him [no]. Oh wait there is no coherent reason anyone is voting me, but I knew that already).

OH YEAH YOU SAVED THE BEST FOR LAST FOR ME ORLOTAN THANKS FOR THE DCAKE.
"LEZ POWERLYNCH MY WAGON VOTE FROM 10 PAGS AGO. WHY HAVE I BECOME SO SURE YOU ASK? OH WELL HES DISTANCING FROM TROLL OBVOBV MY CASE IS OPEN N SHUT NOW"
"IZ HE JUS VOTIN ME CUZ OMGUS? LOLLOLLOL I REFUSE TO ADDRESS HIS VOTE ON ME PROPERLY KEKEKEK"
"ALL DA VOTES ON ME ARE TRASH! I'LL DISMISS THEM ALL AND NOT ADRESS A SINGLE THING ANYONE SAID INCLUDING MINA WHO AXED ME POLITELY"

[ortolan]

I don't even care if you're scum anymore, I just want to policy lynch you anyway

[Fate]

OTT = over the top. I've been wrong about meta reads before, but let me put it this way. I read a game that you played in (PYP III, because it was a scummy-nominated game and I was curious). While i followed that game, I thought you were obvtown. At the beginning of this game, you didn't look obvtown at all (your recent posts have been better, although you still never explained your DTM comment, dammit!). Therefore, that worries me. Please don't play the "You know nothing at all because you're not a big name on this site" card. It gets on my nerves.

Fate: why would you feel uncomfortable on the MO wagon if you say you're a fan of it?

I was hoping you would go and re-read my "DTM" comment and realize it was in fact a comment about Chronopie (we're talkin about my Ragelock paragraph awhile back, right?), so I just shrugged it off. Now that you know it was about Chrono, what do you want me to explain exactly?

I already explained my beginning of game-ness. It will be important later. I don't know what card your talking about the only card I hand out is "stfu you can't meta me" "

#2:
Spyrex hope your enjoyin those pills. You can be high and read Orlo's latest post and come on over and we can wrap this up in another 5 pages.

#3:
Tarhalindur is 110% town with that claim and I have a chainsaw waiting for the first moron who has the balls to step up and say "SOUNDS LIKE LYNCHER/3RD PARTY ROLE!"

[Fate]

Anyway, does anyone have any good reasons not to lynch Fate

I don't even care if you're scum anymore, I just want to policy lynch you anyway

I don't even care what you think anymore, I just want to policy lynch you for being so anti-town.

OH WAIT THAT'S CALLED LYNCHING SCUM. YOU SHOULD TRY IT SOMETIME.

[Fate]

Anyway, does anyone have any good reasons not to lynch Fate

I don't even care if you're scum anymore, I just want to policy lynch you anyway

I don't even care what you think anymore, I just want to policy lynch you for being so anti-town.

OH WAIT THAT'S CALLED LYNCHING SCUM. YOU SHOULD TRY IT SOMETIME.

[Parama]

I don't even care if you're scum anymore, I just want to policy lynch you anyway

unvote, vote: CMAR

[Albert B. Rampage]

@Mina @Snowbunny

Hehe doesn't matter if you suspect me. There's no way I'm getting lynched in case you didn't notice. As it is, I will have invaluable information for you tomorrow and it's too risky to kill me before that.

@Iecerint @Spyrex

Seems like I'm immune to delirium.

My case against Iecerint isn't "invalidated". He's probably Norse and was trying to either get support for Norse or trying to make people follow his lead and reveal what faction they are from. I don't like that at all.

I'll go ahead and say that I believe Tar's claim. Let's see what else he has to say.

[manho]

#3:
Tarhalindur is 110% town with that claim and I have a chainsaw waiting for the first moron who has the balls to step up and say "SOUNDS LIKE LYNCHER/3RD PARTY ROLE!"

but tar is actually a lyncher by his role claim, although he is a pro-town one.

[manho]

Attention players. It has come to my attention that Parama is scum. Please lynch this player in a few days. Maybe day four.
Yeah, day four should work. If I'm dead by day four, please lynch Parama without me. Otherwise, I'm going straight for Parama's throat come daybreak on that day.

i know someone has already asked it, but i'm asking it again so that you won't miss it:

why wait until day 4?

[dramonic]

@ABR: You don't particularely look like it, based on the last VC.

24 rajrhcpfreak (2) - Faraday
25 CryMeARiver (2) - Fate, Mina
26 Iecerint (1) - Mighty Mighty Mighty Orbots, Rampage
27 Ortolan (2) -
28 DTMaster (2) -

@Ort: Policy lynch are bad, policy vigs are good!

@Tar: Can't you be normal for a change?

@Iec: I believe SpyreX, he seems intent on worshipping the GOO, had it been a simple vote the target would've been screwed over.

@Starbuck: If you don't think you'll be able to keep up with the game you ought to replace, since it doesn't look like the speed will die down and the longer the game the harder to get a replace in :S

[Nikanor]

Tarhalindur is 110% town with that claim and I have a chainsaw waiting for the first moron who has the balls to step up and say "SOUNDS LIKE LYNCHER/3RD PARTY ROLE!"

SOUNDS LIKE USURPER!

why wait until day 4?

I guess we could do it on like, day two. Just in case Parama is the godfather. It was more an arbitrary number than anything else.

[DTMaster]

@Ice/Mina
"shurgs at the recruit setup". I'd leave it up to scum hunting and posts. The argument about whether the recruit is scum or not is circling around nowhere. Simply put, there isn't enough fucking information to judge me (being recruited) and Ort (who appears to be recruited but hasn't claimed that) based on the fact we joined the game later then everyone else.

In my case you use it to establish links, and then determine scumminess. You don't determine scumminess based on the fact that I'm linked to someone here.

@Ice
You do realize that if you're arguing for anti-towness, you're not arguing for someone's scumminess. Everything that is scummy is also anti town. But everything that is anti-town isn't necessarily scummy. Take VIs, it's detrimental to the town. But that's dependent on skill level, not in terms of the player's scuminess.

"sigh". Don't want to repeat that argument, but there are things that still bother me. The whole "anti-town" statement looks like a backdoor argument out of that mess.

Which brings me to question: Where you even scum hunting with your analysis on Fate? Or where you just pointing out "anti-town things" just because.

Your posts on Fate go from this:

@ Zor, I don't see Fate's initial-initial play as gutsy at all. It's defensive and paranoid. His RVS vote is perfunctory (or scummy, but we'll take his universe). His next post, "Parama is scum because he thinks I'm 3rd party," is worse. His FOLLOWING post, "Chrono is scum for voting me," manages to be yet-worse.

His claim to want to worship the Old Gods is an attempt to recontextualize his play as "silly" rather than "scummy"

His lame "your reluctance to share with the town is noted" to someone who didn't want to answer ABR's question is just bullying. I'm not sure about ABR or SK one way or the other, though.

The only gutsy bit IMO is the very recent "I know something you don't" thing about ABR. It does give me pause a little but idk.

And Justifying it as Anti-town once the heat turns up.

Re: Fate, from his post, it looks like he's intending to vote ani (=DS). So it looks like he's voting his suspect rather than the fellow 2 above the fellow. Hence, not understanding the rules in some way. I did notice his second point, but interpreted it as like cosmic dramatic irony or some unknown mechanic due to his vote for DS appearing serious.

The only point of the vote mechanic ability (as far as we know) is to create confusion about vote targets. Up to a point, it is reasonable to be confused, but after that point, your behavior is anti-town at best, either because:

1. You are not reading.
2. You have poor reading comprehension.
3. You are scum overestimating how long it reasonably takes town to figure shit out and are consequently overshooting.
4. You are scum trying to bring confusion.

Still keeping my eye on you.

@Dram
You whine when you see my swears. Then question me about the reduced swearing? V.V. I'd call you a cocksucker but in your case that's a compliment. So I'll throw you some Vagoos to scare the Dram away. "throws Vagooooos"

@Els
Is UK an influence? / Are you a UK alt? !!!

@MO
1.Sorry, I misread your point on SK:

@ortolan, your entrance to the game is pretty interesting. At some point discussing it will be a good idea; if you're convinced that's not now I can wait.

Fate's initial play is probably too ballsy for scum though I don't know his play well.

I expect SaintKerrigan to find this post suspicious just because I'm the one making it and it's how he reacts to me.

I'd like it if no one was allowed to slip through the cracks participation-wise. I will be taking lurking as scummy; the rest of you can object to that if you like.

Iecerint is perhaps a bit long on talk about the game and filler rather than suspicion but it is clearly a complicated game. He does get some content in with some of his latter posts and although I'm not sure I agree with his directions I can live with it. I don't think he's a good lynch at this time.

rajrhcpfreak on the other hand does look like a nice place to build a bandwagon based on the little I see.

SK should be attacking you, according to this post. You on the other hand find raj a good starting point to begin scum hunting (Seen in bold). Replace SK in my arguments to Raj

Then the transpiration:

MO Attacks Raj, says it's a good start. -> RV Tar because -> Troll tries to cover up that Tar was a simple RV -> Argue argue argu.

Point still valid on detail, Dram's attack sums it better then me. "Ignore the votes due to the other Hydra player" is a poor excuse with people of both your caliber of skill.

2. If you weren't following the people who approved of me then I'd be dissipointed in your scum hunting. If you were genuinely scum hunting then I'd expect you to establish links or establish other persons as scum.]

@Manho
1. So deity factions. Well, judging by the last deity vote split.

Worship Results:
Norse Gods: 25%
The Great Old Ones: 25%
Egyptian Gods: 25%
Judeo-Christian Angels: 25%

Gods and god aligned factions are equaled out.

Theory: This means that we have equal amounts of god-aligned people in each faction as it stands and/or gods. This also means that people who claimed to: "I would worship X deity" over "I (have to) worship X deity" don't have specific requirements to worship a deity.

I have a feeling that ungod aligned people didn't worship last night (As I claimed), which brought the even split.


@Mina.
1.Your ortolan case is ok. Except it's based on one post over 1 day. ><;. So here's my arguments to debunk some of yours.

Sorry to spam the thread, but @Faraday on the ortolan case: Basically, ortolan doesn't do much in that one post beyond make safe comments on the set-up and follow the crowd on Fate.

Not completely true. Ortolan analyzed other players as well.

vote: Plum

there is a couple of people i already see rising on my scumdar but someone not helping at all and selfvoting is someone that needs to be removed asap.

Scummy. She implied in her post she had a pro-town reason for self-voting and yet you're voting her "for being unhelpful" i.e. actually being scummy which is illogical and opportunistic. Not that I disapprove of her lynch if she wants to be lynched but your stated reason for voting her is not well reasoned.

The response to Raj expands his other scum read on him and his town read on Plum. I don't see much tunneling on Fate with analysis like this.

Saint Kerrigan and Chronopie are more guilty in these posts:

Unvote: rajrhcpfreak.
Vote: Dramonic.

(Fate)

What's with all the OMGUS?

@ Plum: Serious vote for me or no?

SK posted this after Ice attacked Fate for this already. This is more of a scummy piggy back then Ortolan.

4 pages overnight, nice guys.

Vote: Dramonic

(Fate)

Considering that there had been several VCs before Fate's posting, not-reading-thread-is-a-scumtell vote. Also, why the scum claim?

--

Raj is next on the not-reading-etc list.

--

I think we should hold off until later in the day before casting worship votes, but if I had to vote now, it would either be Egyptian or Norse, they have the coolest mythologies.

This is piggy backing of Ice's point about Fate's vote. However its levels above SK's attack considering Chrono also includes the "scum claim" argument. Its much more on the plate, however he drops it quickly to change his vote for MO. I dislike this.

Ortolan has made reads on people, and provided logic behind it. It's more then the "gut players" or general: I'm here posts being made atm.

2. Lurking arguments don't take place over 2 days in a hyper active/inflated game. It might read as ages occuring, this game only lasted for less then 48 hours.

Take into account work/school/social life and time zone diffrences, you should wait. If you're worried about active lurkers

Use this: http://www.msutils.net/search.php

I just searched Ortolan and the last time he's been on the site was in this game. So he's not active lurking, and it hasn't been long enough to consider him lurking.

EDIT: He made a post (this wall was an ongoing project)

His posts discredit me and bring credit to the Ortolan case. Yay!. What's interesting is:

Ortolan claims he cannot worship :p

The rest is meh, and more meh, and less insight into Orto's thinking.

@Totallynotmafia.
What are your scum reads?

Because, despite answering mechanic and theory questions, you're not actually scum hunting in that recent post. Not at all. I'm giving you a reprieve since its a 12 page catchup, but your next post is a analysis or die post.

Cunts.

@Ice/Nik/Spy
Reread 355. That's not a scum post. Analysis and attempting to draw reads = uber town tell of high heavens. Lynching for information is terribad demonstrated in Brr mafia, where the town lynched town reads for information.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13337

Nik was scum in that game, so him pushing for the lynch is ok. When you go by: I think he;s town but if you kill him its lots of bandwagon info, you generate lynching fodder for the VIs that agreed with it for scum.

Now lynching scummy peoples, that's awesome :3.

@Kai
Ouch. That supervisor is a scummy fucker, who probably can't get some to save his life.

@Spy
OIC. That explain lots now.

@Tar
Disclose when ever you are comfortable bitch.

@J-Scope
You should be shot shot shot shot shot shot with posts like 335 when you list a bunch of reads earlier, but you don't expand on your Ice read via scum hunting. He's your big scum read, do something.

Otherwise, I'd totally shoot this guy to high heavens as fucking scum coasting along.

@Nik
1. If Parama is scum, can we lynch him now?
2. If Parama is scum, can the vig shoot him now?

If there's no more reason to delay a lynch on scum who someone got a result or something of that nature.

Vote: ooba (Par par should totally die)

PS. I commented later I was wrong.

I think I covered everything. If I missed something point it out plz k thanks.

My short list of people that should die:

Parama (Nikanor's claim), SK, MO (dropped down to, person who should be investigated but I'd totally block that too), Jscope

EDIT:

Tarhalindur is 110% town with that claim and I have a chainsaw waiting for the first moron who has the balls to step up and say "SOUNDS LIKE LYNCHER/3RD PARTY ROLE!"

SOUNDS LIKE USURPER!

why wait until day 4?

I guess we could do it on like, day two. Just in case Parama is the godfather. It was more an arbitrary number than anything else.

Wait what? If Parama is the GF why would you want to wait? It confirms my role information. It'd confirm Tar's role. It'll kill scum. How the hell did Parama is scum become Parmama is GF in the first place >>;, I thought you claimed he was just scum.. That's such an odd statement right there.

If you have something that is a scum result on Parama and you're worried about sanities/role mechanics/shifts we should like nip this in the bud earlier. Spy already confirmed shifting due to his ability.

Anyways, Usurper would be found out the moment the GF dies and Tar lynches him. And the Usurper is scum himself. I'd rather role confirm via normal scum hunting just cause it's fucking confirmable.

@Alter
Dear gods: I want unlimited day vig powers. Please grant them to me or I'll trap you in a Pen with DeathNote. It'll be like fucking a needle

[Parama]

If Nikanor has a scum result on me then he's totally lying. DTM continuing to vote me after saying Nikanor's arguments make no sense is total hypocrisy, whee.

unvote, vote: DTMaster

Super-FoS: orto, Elscouta, Nikanor

Nikanor is also 3rd party like Fate is, but we don't need to lynch Fate since he's harmless, while Nikanor is most definitely harmful.

[Iecerint]

Just so everyone knows this, there is nothing in the first part of DTM's post directed toward me that I have not already addressed AFAIK. So. I will not address it unless someone specifically wants me to. As for the later bits:

DTM, I don't dispute your view of Mina's post 355 and don't really know why you're @ing me.

Ortolan has misrepresented Fate's case against him. It has relatively little to do with his lurking and more to do with his behavior toward ABR. Do not like.

Unless I'm mistaken, no one could worship at all last night. So players who think they "can't worship at all" may've just misunderstood mod correspondence.

I'm a little skeptical of Tar's claim. I've seen him talk about claiming BP D1 elsewhere, but hmm. Anyway, a lower-priority concern for right now.

ABR, the VC clearly indicates that you are not immune to delirium. At that point, only Faraday is voting n-2 to give me 1 vote, whereas MO and you are voting me to give DTM 2 votes. I don't understand why you think otherwise. Also:

He's probably Norse and was trying to either get support for Norse or trying to make people follow his lead and reveal what faction they are from. I don't like that at all.

This makes no sense AT ALL. AGAIN. First, I was one of the players opposed to Els's plan to start with. If you want to attack players for trying to reveal factions, then Els or those who quickly followed his Plan (Plum was 2nd, Fate was 3rd off the top of my head; and no, I'm not really convinced it would be a good scumtell, anyway) are the ones you need to attack. Not to mention that you'd need to explain why this is scummy.

Also, you ignored my questions to you on this very topic. Please address them:

Al, don't you sort of want to know who's in each group to an extent, because you're a person who says he intends to direct the Worship?

Incidentally, if you think it's bad to let people know who's in which faction, why did you lampshade a perceived "Norse God crumb" on my part?

[Albert B. Rampage]

The answer is no. I don't understand the second question.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Oh, right.

Unvote, vote raj

[Mighty Orbots]

@MO
1.Sorry, I misread your point on SK

Oh good. And it only took you 3 requests to admit it too. Ho hum.

SK should be attacking you, according to this post. You on the other hand find raj a good starting point to begin scum hunting (Seen in bold). Replace SK in my arguments to Raj

Oh FFS. We're expected to lead every bandwagon? We can't make suggestions to the town?

Fail. CMAR bandwagon is the obv Tar counterwagon.

... like what I did here?

Competing bandwagons are tech. This is a stupid argument.

If you weren't following the people who approved of me then I'd be dissipointed in your scum hunting. If you were genuinely scum hunting then I'd expect you to establish links or establish other persons as scum.

I'm not even sure what this means.

HAY DTM ANSWER THIS HERE.

I have a post restriction to swear like a sailor and insult people.

but

The themes are gods and men. I'm a man (girl). Flavour is from everywhere. I'll name claim because this is going to distract the town from the scummah players with flavour analysis..

I'm Hitgirl from Kickass .

@EL
well it looks more like Dram is voteless, but I think it's just an error (see his quote) Kathy has 0 when Dram is 2 spots above Kathy voting for her/him/it.

You've broken your supposed PR twice now, but nothing seems to have happened? Now why would that be?

---

@Nik: I think the real question is why wait to lynch scum at all?

[Nikanor]

Parama, I don't have a result on you. I said, "In case you're a Godfather." Does that sound like someone with a guilty result to you?
The fact of the matter is that you're playing exactly the way I'd expect Parascum to play. In fact, the last (and only) time I've seen you play this way, you were third party.

tl;dr: I'M NOT THE THIRD PARTY, YOU ARE.

[Mighty Orbots]

@MO
1.Sorry, I misread your point on SK

Oh good. And it only took you 3 requests to admit it too. Ho hum.

SK should be attacking you, according to this post. You on the other hand find raj a good starting point to begin scum hunting (Seen in bold). Replace SK in my arguments to Raj

Oh FFS. We're expected to lead every bandwagon? We can't make suggestions to the town?

Fail. CMAR bandwagon is the obv Tar counterwagon.

... like what I did here?

Competing bandwagons are tech. This is a stupid argument.

If you weren't following the people who approved of me then I'd be dissipointed in your scum hunting. If you were genuinely scum hunting then I'd expect you to establish links or establish other persons as scum.

I'm not even sure what this means.

HAY DTM ANSWER THIS HERE.

I have a post restriction to swear like a sailor and insult people.

but

The themes are gods and men. I'm a man (girl). Flavour is from everywhere. I'll name claim because this is going to distract the town from the scummah players with flavour analysis..

I'm Hitgirl from Kickass .

@EL
well it looks more like Dram is voteless, but I think it's just an error (see his quote) Kathy has 0 when Dram is 2 spots above Kathy voting for her/him/it.

You've broken your supposed PR twice now, but nothing seems to have happened? Now why would that be?

---

@Nik: I think the real question is why wait to lynch scum at all?

[Mighty Orbots]

FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUU let's move to the new server already goddamn.

[Parama]

The fact of the matter is that you're playing exactly the way I'd expect Parascum to play. In fact, the last (and only) time I've seen you play this way, you were third party.

You haven't seen me play enough recently then.