Of Gods And Men (GAME OVER!)

[Elscouta]

@Mod :

Unless i messed up, my vote is on Fate.

Nope, my fault, didn't see the vote. Try to keep votes in the left margin as when I scroll pages generally I look for red in the left margin. The rest of the VC looks good though.

[dramonic]

16 Snow_Bunny (1) - SpyreX, Nikator, Starbuck
17 Nikanor (2) -
18 Mina (3) - dramonic
19 SpyreX (0) -
20 Katy (0) -

This is correct?

Seriously Starbuck, voteless again?

[SaintKerrigan]

16 Snow_Bunny (1) - SpyreX, Nikator, Starbuck
17 Nikanor (2) -
18 Mina (3) - dramonic
19 SpyreX (0) -
20 Katy (0) -

This is correct?

Seriously Starbuck, voteless again?

Vote mechanics, dude.

All votes and actions are shifted down by 2 as per Spyrex's ability.

Read da thread...

[Elscouta]

For dramonic, DTMaster, and others that didn't bother to read the previous pages :

THE NAMES THAT ARE DISPLAYED ARE THE VOTES THAT HAVE BEEN CAST BY PLAYERS (BEFORE THE SHIFT). THE NUMBERS ARE THOSE AFTER THE SHIFT.

[DTMaster]

@SK

1.I thought I was clear but I'll reread to see if I missed a question. V.V I basically said it's not an excuse to blame your fucking vote/scum hunting discrepancies when both PZ and Troll are experienced players.

Aka. I don't buy the excuse.

@MO: You might be an hydra and all, but if the troll half puts an idea forward and the Zito half jumps the otehr way you sure as hell have better have a good explanation other than "hydra, pay no mind"

Dram says it better then me.

2. [/quote="SK"]If scum belong to one of the god factions, they get benefits from being part of the majority-worshiped god factions. They may be able to influence where worship votes go, whether through persuasion, role-related ability, or otherwise. The point is, we have no idea yet how scum can influence worship votes, and making it easier for them to know where worship votes are going just sounds like a recipe for disaster. [/quote]

I don't buy this simply because, we don't know what the gods do. Yes they (scum) could be a god faction (or all the gods are scum or something), no we don't know that. If we all worship to the gods of day vigs, we all might become day vigs. But do we really know that? I donno. Would it be cool, yes!.

I expect healthy doses of criticism and paranoia of the worship votes, but if we can use it to confirm an entire faction as town, then we should use the mechanic. It exists for a reason and I expect there to be some resemblance of balance in it.

Posts like these read as scum paranoid of the unknown, rather town, skeptical of the unknown. Squelching potential powerups is a priority for the former.

3. Vote thief stuff is wrong. Just a counting error and me just waking up. So ignore it.

@Dram
1.Trust me, me being an Ass makes a Kinetic Happy (and I hope giggle a little). Ignore the Ass and go straight for the balls of my posts:

are my scum hunting points good?

2. If you don't like my posts because of the swears, ignore them. Calling me out on being offensive is just plain rude. Yes I wrote that to make it intentionally ironic.

@Nikanor
I still don't understand your point or criticism (missed your comment) still. What the hell is the issue with my post? Am I scummy? Do you agree with my points?

If you're arguing for the sake of arguing that my posts are offensive, read rule 19. If you are like Chrono (and now Dram) you can just suck it.

[DTMaster]

@EL
well it looks more like Dram is voteless, but I think it's just an error (see his quote) Kathy has 0 when Dram is 2 spots above Kathy voting for her/him/it.

[ooba]

If scum belong to one of the god factions, they get benefits from being part of the majority-worshiped god factions. They may be able to influence where worship votes go, whether through persuasion, role-related ability, or otherwise. The point is, we have no idea yet how scum can influence worship votes, and making it easier for them to know where worship votes are going just sounds like a recipe for disaster.

How about this - we get the scummiest people (say 4-5) to declare their worship votes beforehand in the thread .. I say we should lynch them if we find out they've deviated from it.

Locking scum into claims now is also a good idea wrt the worship mechanic.

I guess this is what percy meant when he said this?

@ Ooba: Why am I scum?

Just the vibe I had when I was reading.

If you're asking why I suspect ortolan in general...again, why not ortolan? He's one of a pool of low posters who've only posted once or twice with safe filler (a category you belong to as well). To top it off, there's the conflict between his response to my "role-fishing" and DTM's--if the secret information was that he was recruited, then I don't see the reason for coyness.

There's no conflict there; DTM's and ortolan's causes for coming into the game might have been different.
Regarding the lower-profile players comment, I am surprised for two reasons:
a) You call our posts safe filler. Why not consider someone like elscouta - who till date had made only four random posts and one setup speculation post. We have at least taken a stand on who we think are scum.
b)
In ISO post 10: you ask Nikanor about "
What do you think of, say, Iecerint? Ooba? Ortolan?" - which I can only take as you asking one player who you think is scummy about other scummy players.
In ISO post 11: " I dislike lower-profile players like ortolan, Chronopie, ooba and Parama more.". This was three hours after that post. Note, none of Chronopie or Parama had made any post at that time. Why didn't ask Nik what he thought about Chronopie or Parama since you thought they were worse than Iece?

[Parama]

14 Elscouta (1) -
15 DarkStalker (0) - CryMeARiver, SaintKerrigan
16 Snow_Bunny (1) - SpyreX, Nikator, Starbuck

...

26 Iecerint (1) - Mighty Mighty Mighty Orbots
27 Ortolan (0) -
28 DTMaster (0) -

Might is voteless, and apparently the invisible voter is voting Elscouta (Snow)

No, there is no role information related to Fate being 3rd party. It is an incredibly strong gut feeling.

[Parama]

Elscouta is scum.

Unvote, vote: totallynotmafia

Being waaaay too cautious.

[Parama]

DAMMIT

Unvote, vote: totallynotmafia

[Iecerint]

Iec's "Norse gods cuz cool kids are doing it" then mentioning later "I LIKE FOLLOW U ABR!" makes me *headscratch* as to why he didn't say "Idunno I'll just wait for ABR on the whole worship thing."

You have it backward. I said Norse gods long long after the ABR talk had resolved. And I never said I'd follow him, anyway; I said I wasn't sure about that. My lingering crush on ABR is a separate issue.

I've played a game with Iecerint-scum, and he did a great job of looking active and protown, but was a bit overly technical and cautious about joining bandwagons. I'm getting the same impression here.

Were you in OS? Fair characterization if so, I guess; I could see you coming to that conclusion.

I find Iecerint's play different from both the most recent scum and town game I've played with him. Iece, are you a third party role here?

Nope, I'm ordinary town (i.e. no fancy wincon) AFAIK. My guess is that my D1 play in Greek Mythology was kinda skewed because of being a Mason.

That said, I might point out that what happened with Iec->Fate->DTM here is kinda like the Iec->SD->Jack D1 in that game, in the sense that they're both me being harangued and answering the same 2-3 questions over and over (minus the Freudian excuse; this is not a crumb.). Same conclusion, too, come to think of it.

Vote: Iecerint

Is this me or DTM? Cuz you don't say and we're both not entirely context-free targets. Also, did you do that (i.e. fail to clarify) just to annoy me, or are you pretending not to know what's going on, too?

It also occurred to me that both the Mafia and Town might get a recruit, so the replacements could be 1 town v. 1 Mafia.

Then why didn't you say so? That aside, I think it's unlikely. The only balanced way to do it would be to have the Men do it, and that would make him confirmed to too many players.

My guess before DTM claimed being recruited was that Kinetic had noticed a flaw in the ruleset and was rebalancing to compensate. But with DTM's explanation, that doesn't seem plausible.

Icerint: His attack on mina feels forced. I don't really see much weight in his accusations.

Uh, you mean the one where she asks about O and DTM's roles, then criticized cautioned someone else for making a plan that might lead to rolefishing? Like, from ages ago? Or are you confusing my attack on Mina with someone else's?

More later. I'm still on page 11, but I need to pick up my car.

[Elscouta]

Uh, you mean the one where she asks about O and DTM's roles, then criticized cautioned someone else for making a plan that might lead to rolefishing?

Yes. Although, rereading your iso and my notes, it seems I had confused Mina with Fate in the last pages, which is why I thought you were tunelling on mina too much.

I guess the fact that I read the thread a bit fast is now spoiled :/

--

I still really like my vote on Mighty Orbots, and I'd like a bit more votes in this direction.

Finally, succintness is pro-town. Quote walls are depressing.

[Nikanor]

So are you saying it wasn't a serious vote?You aren't pushing this to a lynch?

No, it's serious. I want you lynched.

TOWN STOP: ELSCOUTA ARE YOU A VOTE STEALER YOU SCUMMY SCUMMY SCUMM ??? (see in the vote count)

Someone please tell me I'm imagining him saying this.

Also, for people who think they're being clever yet still seem unable to read (SK, Els):

DRAMONIC HAS CLAIMED THAT HIS VOTE IS NOT AFFECTED BY DELIRIUM!

I still don't understand your point or criticism (missed your comment) still. What the hell is the issue with my post? Am I scummy? Do you agree with my points?

I'm saying you're spazzing out and attacking everything in sight, which isn't good scumhunting.

Iec, I didn't say that thing you quoted me for in your above post.

Mina, I really don't get why you want me to comment on ortolan. You're vote's not even on him, is it?

[Iecerint]

Oh, you're right @ Niki; my mistake. It was actually Mina. Reposting, cuz it changes my commentary a little:

I've played a game with Iecerint-scum [Fables], and he did a great job of looking active and protown, but was a bit overly technical and cautious about joining bandwagons. I'm getting the same impression here.

I think drawing the latter conclusion from Fables (rather than OS) is kinda a stretch. Namely, I don't know at all where the bandwagon thing comes from (unless she's misinterpreting that early-game I voted my scumbuddy and didn't want to vote the scummy townie until I'd finished distancing), and I don't get where I'm reluctant to join bandwagons this game, either.

Finally, succintness is pro-town. Quote walls are depressing.

Is this directed at my 285, or at MO? Or are you just making a general observation?

No further comments, it turns out.

[Iecerint]

I just read through my iso to doublecheck on some of the things people are attributing to me, cuz they didn't all sound familiar. FACT CHECK, all quotes are me:

That said, yeah, I feel for any hypothetical town Old Gods out there.

Dunno what to do with the Worship mechanic. I'd say the Old Ones are a priori scummy, or at least 3rd party, based on flavor, but, from a mechanics perspectives, all the groups are probably mostly equally scummy in the short term.

These are the bits where I alluded to Old Gods. I think SX may have implied that I was more vs. than I actually was. Relevant because he implied as much after I called him town.

Up to a point, it is reasonable to be confused, but after that point, your behavior is

anti-town at best, either

because:

1. You are not reading.
2. You have poor reading comprehension.
3. You are scum overestimating how long it reasonably takes town to figure shit out and are consequently overshooting.
4. You are scum trying to bring confusion.

Bold added. This is the quote in which DTM keeps claiming I'm necessarily attributing ALL of these characteristics to Fate, which is clearly not true via the bolded bit. (He also implied that I was arguing that these are all scummy per se, but he dropped that one pretty quickly, and it similarly is clearly not true.) Relevant because DTM dropped the bolded bit when he quoted this. I've already pointed out as much, but in the probable event that people can't be bothered to read us side-by-side, etc.

EBWOP: Uh, also, SX did the vote thing, anyway. And he seems like a sweetheart but ye know.

This was after DTM posted some rhetoric assuming that the vote-shift came from scum. So with context I'd already made my view of SX kinda clear. Relevant because it might imply that his question was mostly rhetorical in function, but I guess the post was slightly vague if you weren't paying attention to context.

(But the point that SX revealing the details of the mechanic was pro-town (as it let's town target appropriately, whereas scumSX would mean that scum could already target appropriately) overrules those bits IMO.)

[dramonic]

Vote mechanics, dude.

All votes and actions are shifted down by 2 as per Spyrex's ability.

Read da thread...

For dramonic, DTMaster, and others that didn't bother to read the previous pages :

Now then, a few things I want to adress.

First, my vote isn't affected by the delirium, just saying...

Read the thread heh?

[dramonic]

for those who have reading issues:

My votes are not affected by Delirium

[Iecerint]

@ Mod

, I think you missed ABR's vote for me/DTM (whichever he intended).

[Mighty Orbots]

Holy hell DTM. Stop drinking.

1. RVS vote was made on

page 1

.
2. Vote was corrected later once vote shenanigans were discovered.
3.

IN YOUR NEXT POST QUOTE WHERE MIGHTY ORBOTS SAYS THAT SAINT KERRIGAN IS SCUMMY GOGOGO

Also I'm keeping an eye on who's following your little charade.

[dramonic]

@EL
well it looks more like Dram is voteless, but I think it's just an error (see his quote) Kathy has 0 when Dram is 2 spots above Kathy voting for her/him/it.

where's the crotch reference here!

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm voting you Iecerint because you just claimed Norse God out of the blue. I think it's pretty anti-town and deserves a vote.

[Iecerint]

I, uh, never claimed that, but I guess you're talking about my worship target? By "all the cool kids are doing it," I meant that so long as so many other worship targets are out there, we may as well have them all on the table.

Hmm. So I guess you're saying you're also delirium-immune? Like you're just way above all these fancy vote mechanics?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hmm. So I guess you're saying you're also delirium-immune? Like you're just way above all these fancy vote mechanics?

Actually, my vote didn't appear at all in the VC. Kinetic is looking into it right now.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unless I'm missing something, why would state who you're worshiping unless you're intending some kind of domino effect? Which begs the question, why would you do that for a faction other than your own? Seems very gratuitous and not in a good way.

[Fate]

I've seen him play as town in PYPIII, and he wasn't this OTT.

Who the hell are you?
What is OTT?
What the hell are you meta'ing me?
I had a guilty result D1 2 and 3 of that game, so yeah, I was a little more on point.
Why the hell are you trying to meta me?

Fate forgetting the vote quirks on PAGE 8 is major /facepalm territory.

Nikanor
Raj
DTM
Fate

Unvote: Beholder.
Vote: Nikanor.

1. LULZ
2. What made me go from vote worthy to least scummiest, especially with the revelation of my scum-balls?

That said if you're actually going to scumhunt I rather have my vote on someone more obscure:

Unvote:
Vote: Fate

(for teh lulz+competing wagon)

Is the latest VC correct with MO's vote staying on Iecrint correctly?

Mind telling us about that MO?