Mini 975 - Dirty Dirty South Mafia - game over

[TheButtonmen]

@ Button:
Here is the key question you need to answer to build a case:

Show me my hypo-scum motivation for not bussing him.
What would it have gained me?
I was committed to lynching him before Lylo, so all this fallout would have been inevitable.
How would I have even known there WAS a cop.. and if so, that I would draw an investigation?

Show me what possible motivation I would have had, especially given that I fully agreed to lynching him before Lylo.

The fact your trying to inject this level of WIFOM into the discussion only makes me more confident in my GF read on you; it's exactly why you didn't bus him. You wanted to be "cleared" and be able to point out the fact you didn't bus him; the fact your still going the route of pointing out that scumCamn would have obviously bussed only makes me happier with my read on you.

Also your threating to vote me was lawls adorible.

[SerialClergyman]

I think all those questions have pretty obvious answers. And yes really zz.

For example -

The hypo scum motivationand what it gains you is:
a) To keep your team alive as a voting block
b) To out further power roles (already had to out 2 to get kenman lynched)
c) To draw an investigation.

You might say you were committed to lynching him before lylo, yet you were in favour of lynching button over him yesterday. So if that was a mislynch, he would have been there, in lylo (most likely). So actually, you weren't committed to lynching him before lylo.

How would you know there was a cop?
That's probably a likely scenario if you're a godfather.

How would you know that you would draw an investigation?
You couldn't be sure, but you were a pretty obvious choice, given you were defending heavily the guy who looked the scummiest. Could be the perfect way to use the godfather role not just to avoid detection but actively try to confirm yourself.

I don't like this overreaction on button either - this was one of the first times he's seriously pointed out something solid. Your play fits the godfather role pretty well.

[TheButtonmen]

Sorry for the double I hadn't seen 525 when I posted.

Camn you know how the action resolution works; we went over this when you bungled your first kill; stop trying to make yourself appear ignorent of how the night actions work. It only wins you town points from dumbtown.

[Incognito]

*TheButtonmen (1) <-~ Steam-Powered Shovel
SaintKerrigan (1) <-~ bouncy.bouncy

Not voting (5) <-~ camn, boberz, SaintKerrigan, SerialClergyman, TheButtonmen

7 alive; 4 votes will do it.

An asterisk by a player's name indicates said player would be lynched if deadline were to hit right this moment.

Morning Deadline:

Thursday, May 27th at 2:30 P.M. EST

Day Deadline:

Sunday, May 30th at 2:30 P.M. EST

[TheButtonmen]

Also Button, where have you been this game, man? Last game i played with you you were far more active.

After I replaced in I found out I was working Mon, Tues and Wens this week (I work 12 hour shifts); starting tommorow night I'll have a lot more free time.

[camn]

Gosh, I just Iso'd the Buttonman.
I highly recommend it.

For someone that thought Kenman was "OBVSCUM OMG!!" he didn;t talk much.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 57#2283457
this was the only post where he expressed suspicion of him.
Not enough for a vote. Not enough to push Kens lynch or anything.

In fact, Button has been very careful not to really push any lynch.

He starts with an RVS vote on hoopla, which he VERY weakly tries to turn into a real wagon, for no stated reason.
THen he switches to Earl, also for no reason of his own, while sheeping my case on Midnight.
Twice he apparently forgets who he is voting, and re-votes them. Probably because it doesn't MATTER, he isn't trying to actually build a case.

VOTE: BUTTONMAN

You are scum.
You have been active lurking all game.
You have no case on me, you are just trying to jump on Kerrigan's, since he is a much better player than you.
You have been coasting all game, and have yet to make a case against me.

Look at Clergy! He can answer the questions that you can't seem to. I don't agree with the answers, but at least they are there.
That is how townies play, not like you.

[camn]

now, Clergy.

Show me where I pushed a button lynch yesterday?
I seem to remember putting my vote on Ken and keeping it there.

And I know that I was VERY CLEAR that Ken needed to die before Lylo.

[SerialClergyman]

I admit I remember it being stronger than it was when I went back, but it's definitely there.

Elli suggests lynching button over lynching kenman on 453:

Would anyone be up to risk a BUTTON lynch, and for us to ask KENMAN, to do the hid thingy one more time?

Kerigan opposes very clearly.

2. Button is suspicious, but we are not lynching him over Kenman today

Camn feels out the scenario:

I support rethinking a Kenman lynch... though logic tells me that if he screwed up the plan once, he can screw it up twice.

I thought you were actively in favour of it rather than this more nebulous 'in favour of rethinking it', so my recollection was off a bit, but it's also not exactly what I'd expect from someone who was totally and utterly opposed to letting kenman live to lylo.

[SaintKerrigan]

I do, but it relies on Earl knowing what he is talking about.
Which is something I rarely believe.

Past experience? When/where?

Camn, please answer this.

[SerialClergyman]

Also the fact you had your vote on him on D3 is a negative. As I said at the start of D3, noone gets town points for trying to lynch kenman AFTER his hide fails. In fact, all the votes on kenman achieved on D3 was a lynch that was always going to happen and almost losing us the chance to hear Elli's results.

[camn]

I do, but it relies on Earl knowing what he is talking about.
Which is something I rarely believe.

Past experience? When/where?

Camn, please answer this.

I did.
That was a reference to not believing ANYONE ever knows what they are doing.

@ Clergy: I am not trying to get points from Lynching Kenman.... just countering your earlier erroneous statement re: me pushing a button lynch.

[camn]

Also.. I will be out for a bit...

I strongly recommend against nit-picking me into the noose.
I am perfectly willing to rebut any real case, but you guys gotta actually bring one.

Check your facts first, too.. I don't want to ask for proof of warrantless accusations!

And lets Lynch Button.
I DO have a Cop-innocent on me! That isn't the GREATEST reason to lynch someone ever!

Just Iso him, then Iso me.
THEN we can talk.

[SaintKerrigan]

*Maemuki (6) <-~ camn, SerialClergyman, Ellibereth, SaintKerrigan, Kenman, Steam-Powered Shovel

Not voting (4) <-~ Maemuki, bouncy.bouncy, TheButtonmen, Earlder1

ON WAGON <-~

camn

,

SerialClergyman

,

Ellibereth

, SaintKerrigan,

Kenman

,

Steam-Powered Shovel

OFF WAGON <-~

Maemuki

,

bouncy.bouncy

,

TheButtonmen, Earlder1

obvtown

leaning town

neutral

leaning scum

obvscum

So wait a second. Why is Earl/Boberz an obvscum read yet you were voting for a leaning town read?

[boberz]

Sorry all.

I am a tracker.

Day 1 Kenman didnt target anyone

Day 2 The Buttonmen didnt target anyone.

Any directions for me now?

---

I have read up a proper post imminently

[boberz]

I was confused as to why camn seemed to be cleared quite early. I actually thought his pressure on MS was fine, but MS was an easy target so I read that as null. I fail to see what else day 1 people thought about camn.

I sensed camn sort of jumped on the idea of MS and bouncy being partners in post 88. I didnt see that coming from camn, but more a way of getting his target lynched. Not scummy in itself, but considering how things have turned out.

Where was bouncy during the discussion on the MS lynch? That got mentioned but never answered unless I missed it.

Elli - Why did you think camn was 100% town.

But camn asking everyone not to immediately lynch bouncy looked townlike.

[camn]

So wait a second. Why is Earl/Boberz an obvscum read yet you were voting for a leaning town read?

KERRIGAN!

Stop this.
YOu know my position on the kenman/earl thing.
It was very very clear.

I thought Kenman was town, and Earl was caught by The Plan.
However, as per the Plan, and my repeated statements, Ken had to die

Obv, with his flip, it is clear I was wrong.
Which is not scummy.

If we spend the rest of the day asking and answering questions with no purpose, you are going to lynch a townie and have nothing to work with in Lylo. Is this what you want?

ISO BUTTON. then get back to me. If you are town, that is.

[SaintKerrigan]

Ok, I went back and looked at some stuff (ISOs included), and here's how my reads on people currently stand.

Confirmed Town (because he knows it)
- SaintKerrigan

Confirmed Town
- Boberz

One of these two is for sure Town (Other could be scum if person is a Godfather, otherwise Town)
- Camn
- Steam-Powered Shovel

Very Likely Town (because his play as scum doesn't make sense)
- Bouncy.bouncy

That leaves SerialClergyman and TheButtonMen as scum candidates. However, I don't like Serialscum because I haven't seen it in his posts, particularly his attempt to stop the quicklynch on Kenman on Day 3. The fact that Buttonmen got on the wagon after a fear of quicklynching had been broadcast is suspicious.

Personally, I think one of the two cop investigation targets is actually a Godfather, and I'm quickly warming up to Buttonmen as the final member of a scum trio. Won't vote on it yet, though, we've still got time for discussion.

[boberz]

bouncy as near as to confirmed town to me as well. Post 273 Kenman pretty much clears bouncy as far as I am concerned. (how do you link posts with the word 'Post 273' to post 273 if that makes sense, I have asked in a previous game but I cannot find it.)

Meanwhile SC has also lookedvery town to me and I ahve just read the game from beginning to end. In my notes on about three occasions I wrote SC probs town in post x.

Elimination does look like thebuttonmen but tbh I havent read it in his posts. So I have to put you SK in it

I agree there is almost certainly a godfather and I supposeit may have been one of the two you mention SK. If so I think camn is a tad more suspicious (as could be inferred from my previouis post also).

[boberz]

In fact SK, a potential slip. You claimed VT, does this differ from the Townie described in the Second Post?

[camn]

I agree re: Bouncy. It seemed a little too out-of-the blue to be a bus.
But Earl I am not so convinced on.

However, given the lack of town unity, I think if earl was bussing, then we are probably beaten.

In fact SK, a potential slip. You claimed VT, does this differ from the Townie described in the Second Post?

If he is anything like me, he didn't even look at his PM since he got it. . . so I think this is null. Maybe even a towntell. If you were fakeclaiming, you would probably look really hard at the example, no?

[SerialClergyman]

I've had a 12 hours slep and I'm feeling as refreshed as a naken man in the Arctic.

I had a long think about camn and SPS, but the more I did the more I agree with one of camn's points - they have INNOCENT investigations. It's one thing to say that their play matches with the play of a godfather, it's quite another to say they are more likely to be scum AFTER an innocent result. I mean, even if there's a godfather, they could be in the group of players not investigated.

So the whole 'one of the innocents is a godfather' thing is a bit of a false dichotomy. I agree that there's the possibility that even with an innocent result they could still be scum, but I think I'd prefer looking elsewhere for scum today.

Having said that - where else? I believe both claimed roles. So that leaves StK and buttonman. I will have to reread Kerrigan I suppose but out of the two there's no question which I'd prefer to lynch at the moment. I don't see much of a choice.

Vote Button

I also remain totally unconvinced that claiming VT is a scumslip over claiming townie. I think the two are interchangable.

[camn]

Finally some sense.

IN the flurry.. did anyone notice my strategy recommendation re: Bouncy?

In fact

UNVOTE

since Button is at L-1.

You can pretty much consider my vote ON button.. but I want no quickhammer, right SK?

Anyway

BOUNCY [/]b.. are you on board re: giving us your results at the very last second of morning?
And can I get some feedback on this plan?
My thought is... if Button is scum, and we lynch him in the morning phase.. then he cant execute the kill. (though I am unsure of this)
THen, if bouncy lets us know who he targets... then if bouncy dies, we know who the third (last?) scum ISN'T.
The ideal timing would be bouncy hammering and claiming target in the same post.. since the hammer ends the day.

Thoughts?

[SerialClergyman]

Quickhammer isn't quite as important as yesterday when results hadn't been announced, but nonetheless it's probably good form to unvote

I'm not sure how the mechanics would resolve themselves, but it looks good in theory.

Mod - can a lynched scum be the person who commits the night kill if they are lynched before afternoon?

[SaintKerrigan]

In fact SK, a potential slip. You claimed VT, does this differ from the Townie described in the Second Post?

I think the two are interchangable.

Also, both Buttonmen and SPS claimed VT as well. Why'd you single me out with the "potential slip"?

@ SC: I'm not going to push one of the cop targets today, either.

[camn]

Quickhammer isn't quite as important as yesterday when results hadn't been announced, but nonetheless it's probably good form to unvote

True. But if it works how I think it works... we get a confirmed townie out of the deal, at WORST.