NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[Sevis]

Vezopiraka is still showing no sign of logic. I'm half-way done with ISOs, and so far, Midnight stood out when I was reading, but I can't figure out why. Dr. Robotnik's hopping has been noted before. He seems to be mostly targeting VIs. His list of suspects, other than SSBF and daniel, includes LMP -- who, although he certainly isn't a VI, is new. Doesn't look all too good.

Vote: Dr. Robotnik

, at least until I can finish re-reading.

[Parama]

You have until your next post to vote me or die a horrible death.

Why do you want votes on you? I see no benefits in this whatsoever. As any factions, you want to avoid votes period.

I don't want "votes" on me. I want foilist to vote me. He's put more logic up against me than he has anyone else yet he absolutely refuses to vote. He's leaving himself open to come back and vote me later if a wagon builds on me, but he doesn't want to vote right now. This is scummy.

[foilist13]

I said I would vote after I was done analyzing other players. I'm not in the habit of tossing my vote around willy-nilly.

You are in no place to threaten me. I'll vote when I'm good and ready, and not before. No one is going to start a wagon on me based on your word at this point.

Now to what I actually want to talk about, my analysis of Chronopie.

He starts off in the beginning with a vote for SSBF. This early in the game I wouldn't think much of it except that he simply calls him scum. Usually in the beginning with a vote like that you vote for a reason, i.e. you voted for so and so for crap reasons, or something similar. Chronopie however declares him to be scum, granted some other players do as well. This however is only mildly bothersome.

It sounds like: If you quick hammer me, There's a high chance of me being town.

Lets flip that coin for a sec: If you leave me for later, there's a lower chance of me being Town...

Recruit-able Traitor?
Either that, or he's spouting garbage.

This is where the real crap starts. This is the most worthless post I've seen throughout the game except for a choice few by vezo. This is a horrible pseudo-probability argument. Even if it was legitimate it would apply to everyone else equally. Should we have quick-lynched him? No. Is this a good defense if he thought we were going to try? Hell no.

He then spends his time pointing out the things that are currently the main topic of conversation. No analysis, no meaningful content of any kind.

He then goes on for several pages until he votes nhammen.

I agree with Parama and SC here.

unvote, Vote: Nhammen

He doesn't give his own reasons, he just tries to get by on Parama and SC's reasons. Such a post would have been jumped on in most of the other games I've played. I can't fathom why it wasn't here. I was caught up in the masonry, and most everyone else seemed fixed on nhammen, so several such posts slipped by.

Chronopie then slips back into pointing out the obvious.

He gets jumped on for his rolefishing and spends the rest of his time posting half-assed defenses for it.

Everything he has said amounts to nothing. He has posted no content, he has done no scumhunting. These are usually regarded as the quintessential scumtells.

@Parama: You have certainly made my scum list, but I'm not going to vote you at this time. At least your trying to get people lynched.

Chronopie hasn't done a damn thing.

vote: Chronopie

[Parama]

I said I would vote after I was done analyzing other players. I'm not in the habit of tossing my vote around willy-nilly.

You are in no place to threaten me. I'll vote when I'm good and ready, and not before. No one is going to start a wagon on me based on your word at this point.

Guys, we have a nhammen/foilist scumteam. GG.

[Vi]

@Timeater: You are seriously not helping. I'm tempted to vote you just because of that worthless post.

do it do it do it

I know Leafsnail said I'm spreading the pressure around without voting, but there's a difference between what I'm doing and

I find you genuiously suspicious enough to warrant a vote, but I didn't say "VOTE FOR Dr. Robotnik! PEOPLE!".

@Timeater: You are seriously not helping. I'm tempted to vote you just because of that worthless post.

which makes it look like your vote means squaddoo. The way you're using it isn't effective as a pressuring tool.

Sevis continues to make weak posts why are people letting him slip by etc. etc.

I would actually like for Unsight to comment on Chronopie.

[Vi]

*spies a pie*
Actually, I would like for Chronopie to comment at all.

[Leafsnail]

First bolded: I have but one vote.

But he doesn't even seem like the worst... and why go back to him twice?

Second bolded: Kind of a flimsy caricature of my reason but it's not like you're reading.

About what nhammen has said since SerialClergyman posted - He's still not going anywhere. Of all the people he could have voted for more information, he chose pman, who is least likely to gain a wagon (or directly give information). Lots of attempts at reads, none of which are particularly committal. It's scumhunting at its most ineffective.

This is the only reason I can find for your second voting of nhammen. I assumed any previous reasons were invalid as you declared him town in your previous unvoting of him.

Third is fair enough... I guess I got a similar read on him.

Fourth bolded: Intuition is a reason, albeit not a convincing one for others. I DO know that I said I was using Chronopie's wagon as a catch-all basin for the people I found scummy because they all happened to be there, rather than because they were on Chronopie.

You did SAY it, but it seems like a bizarre coincidence that almost everyone you find scummy is on one player you've just declared town :/.

*I only have one vote. It's hard to put "real pressure" on five people simultaneously. However, I have made attacks on the suspicious players' posts as they've made them, so there's no ambiguity.
*It's Day 1 in a 24-player game; 13 people have to agree to lynch (more specifically, 12 people have to agree with me).
*Not everyone agrees with me, and given the scumhunting techniques going on ITT not everyone is GOING to agree with me. Given that it IS Day 1 and not everyone I believe is scum will turn out to be scum, this is not necessarily a bad thing. (see: Mafia Dodgeball)
*History shows that more often than not a VI (of any alignment) gets lynched D1 in Large Games because it's the kind of player people can agree to lynch. (see: New Age Mafia, Mafia 87, Caught in the Crossfire) And that's fine; it's D1. However, I can press on the wagons that I believe are more likely to hit scum.
*All of the people I think are scum have zero votes on them, so any one of them I pick is the largest bandwagon to push. Similarly, I don't agree with the foilist accusations and I'm presently in wait-and-see mode for Chronopie, so I'm not on those wagons.

Hmm... pretty fair response, actually. Even if your scumlist seems to be moving far too fast for anyone to keep up with :/. Also, are you going to be trying to start a wagon on one of your scumspects at some point?

Why would I be taken out at night fairly quickly?

Competing scumgroups, experienced player.

---

@621 - yes, this is full, stupid overdefence mode from foilist. Parama's point in valid - foilist is calling Parama scum but mystery refusing to vote and deflecting to chronopie. I love his reason.

@Parama: You have certainly made my scum list, but I'm not going to vote you at this time. At least your trying to get people lynched.

Even with all the accusations of misrepping and reaching, this is apparently a good reason to hold off him :/.

---

Chronopie is still scum, although probably not aligned with Foilist.

[Chronopie]

FYI LS: You're wrong about me in this game too.

Unvote, Vote: Foilist

I'm unsure on which bit you'd like me to comment on Vi.
TBH, maybe having ~10 ongoing games is a bit much, divided resources and what not.

Vi looks town to me, LS looks like (misguided) town, Vez is confirmed town (in my eyes), the others masons (Dan, Seraphim), and LMP-monk are mostly confirmed town.

[Dr. Robotnik]

As for lurking, I've only been able to get on the computer once a day. I have explained about my reasoning for the masons, and about my distrust of the nhammen bandwagon and the speed of which it has been formed.

I really don't see that as a good excuse. I looked at your profile and you've been able to post 1.33 per day. So surely you have enough time to post at least once a day here and contribute to something.

You say pman was even more suspicious then me, yet it looks like your trying to form a second bandwagon on me. Explain yourself.

Pman5595 hasn't posted much substance and has been less active then you, but your activity level has also been terrible and you haven't really posted much substance either. Plus, you've parroted a bit, which made you more suspicious in my eyes then pman5595.

Also, I am not attempting to form a bandwagon on you. I find you genuiously suspicious enough to warrant a vote, but I didn't say "VOTE FOR Dr. Robotnik! PEOPLE!".

Hmm. Well, I've had people parrot me in regards to the nhammen bandwagon, so I guess that works for you...and yeah, I've posted more then he has, which does make me more suspicious because I'm somehow lurking more...

And when you vote for people, its because you consider them dangerous enough to be hung. No, you may not have actively campaigned to kill me, but one other person immediate followed you in voting for me.

[Vi]

I'm unsure on which bit you'd like me to comment on Vi.

Just about anything relevant to the game tbqh.

TBH, maybe having ~10 ongoing games is a bit much, divided resources and what not.

I'm surprised you're only finding this out after joining ten games at a time. >_>

Why foilist and not <insert other person here>?

Getting to Leafsnail, etc. momentarily.

[Chronopie]

It's 11 ongoing, (10 alive) atm. was 11 alive until last night. Was coping well with them for a while.

Because Foilist looks fairly scummy on a quick-ish reread. Dislike Sevis too. (For all that I sound like a parrot). Nhammen is still on my scumlist.

Askbob has disappeared, as have Pman, pom, seraphim, goat, and others.

[foilist13]

Ok, so Parama and Chronopie OMGUS voted me. Good play to both of you.

@Parama: You have certainly made my scum list, but I'm not going to vote you at this time. At least your trying to get people lynched.

Even with all the accusations of misrepping and reaching, this is apparently a good reason to hold off him :/.

I intend to vote Chronopie until I get some content out of him, and perhaps even then depending on what that content is. No content is scummier than bad content.

According to nhammen:

Why are you worried about me using meta? This triggered some major scumvibes, so I went to his wiki page and saw Mafia 109. Which showed me that:
Parama does have a meta of tunneling.
Hard.
On Town players.
He's worse than charter...

This matches with Parama's play so far, so despite the fact that I don't like it, Chronopie still comes up as the scummier player.

Less content means less chance for a scumslip, that's why scum tend to do it as we all know. I think Parama has played worse, but Chronopie has been scummier.

[Vi]

First bolded: I have but one vote.

But he doesn't even seem like the worst... and why go back to him twice?

It's not like he got any better since the first time...
If someone wants to vote Timeater or The Goat or Dry-fit or etc. I would certainly provide them with company.

Second bolded: Kind of a flimsy caricature of my reason but it's not like you're reading.

About what nhammen has said since SerialClergyman posted - He's still not going anywhere. Of all the people he could have voted for more information, he chose pman, who is least likely to gain a wagon (or directly give information).

Lots of attempts at reads, none of which are particularly committal. It's scumhunting at its most ineffective.

This is the only reason I can find for your second voting of nhammen. I assumed any previous reasons were invalid as you declared him town in your previous unvoting of him.

"Valid" and "invalid" are words that get thrown around a lot but nobody knows what they mean. >.>
Anyway, the vote on pman makes sense as a scumaneuver when combined with the bolded - it read like a flimsy attempt to look like he was scumhunting and culminated with a very uncontroversial and useless vote on a megalurker who earned an avatar for being vig bait. Really?

Fourth bolded: Intuition is a reason, albeit not a convincing one for others. I DO know that I said I was using Chronopie's wagon as a catch-all basin for the people I found scummy because they all happened to be there, rather than because they were on Chronopie.

You did SAY it, but it seems like a bizarre coincidence that almost everyone you find scummy is on one player you've just declared town :/.

I don't

try

to play bizarrely, but that's usually how it comes out. I look forward to my next game with DrippingGoofball.~
I realize that I chose an awkward way of grouping my suspects, but it was something neat that I noticed before I posted so I went with it.

*I only have one vote. It's hard to put "real pressure" on five people simultaneously. However, I have made attacks on the suspicious players' posts as they've made them, so there's no ambiguity.
*It's Day 1 in a 24-player game; 13 people have to agree to lynch (more specifically, 12 people have to agree with me).
*Not everyone agrees with me, and given the scumhunting techniques going on ITT not everyone is GOING to agree with me. Given that it IS Day 1 and not everyone I believe is scum will turn out to be scum, this is not necessarily a bad thing. (see: Mafia Dodgeball)
*History shows that more often than not a VI (of any alignment) gets lynched D1 in Large Games because it's the kind of player people can agree to lynch. (see: New Age Mafia, Mafia 87, Caught in the Crossfire) And that's fine; it's D1. However, I can press on the wagons that I believe are more likely to hit scum.
*All of the people I think are scum have zero votes on them, so any one of them I pick is the largest bandwagon to push. Similarly, I don't agree with the foilist accusations and I'm presently in wait-and-see mode for Chronopie, so I'm not on those wagons.

Hmm... pretty fair response, actually. Even if your scumlist seems to be moving far too fast for anyone to keep up with :/. Also, are you going to be trying to start a wagon on one of your scumspects at some point?

You mean like voting them twice and making mention that they really should die sometime soon every time they post, along with reasons why?


I think this conversation has been enlightening.

Unvote: Leafsnail

Vote: Timeater

(L-12)
Because SSBF won't do it do it do it, and this wagon really needs to happen, and nobody wants to vote Sevis for some reason.

--

I think the foilist case is overblown even after the Chronopie vote; the last part of 621 says it better than I can.
Plus that kind of haughty attitude in 627 doesn't seem like it came from relativelynewscum, and a quick meta read looks like it supports that feeling.

I do have to ask where Parama and nhammen stand with him though.

@foilist:

So is Parama a bad player, or is Parama scum? What was your final opinion on nhammen?

Also, while rereading I twitched again when I came to Sevis 605. Lame question + convenient target = contrived suspicion.

[Parama]

Ok, so Parama and Chronopie OMGUS voted me. Good play to both of you.

I stopped reading your post here because if you're going to misrepresent me like that then I have no reason to read a word of the BS your posting.

I am not a bad player. If I am a bad player, then everyone who voted nhammen after my case is a bad player as well.

[LimMePls]

Vezopiraka is still showing no sign of logic.

For one, while I certainly am in the camp of those who criticize Vezo's logic, he has actually made a couple of good posts since the big "my mason/monk buddies must be scum" snafu. I'm not sure what you mean by "still" showing no sign of logic. Care to explain better Sevis? Even a quote of what you perceive as bad logic would be useful.

I'm half-way done with ISOs, and so far, Midnight stood out when I was reading, but I can't figure out why.

What the hell does this mean?

Dr. Robotnik's hopping has been noted before. He seems to be mostly targeting VIs. His list of suspects, other than SSBF and daniel, includes LMP -- who, although he certainly isn't a VI, is new. Doesn't look all too good.

Vote: Dr. Robotnik

, at least until I can finish re-reading.

So you think Dr. Robotnik is scummy because he is only targeting VI-ish players? What about a player who only votes easy targets and makes strange posts that look like they are saying something without actually saying anything? I think those are more worthy of votes.

Unvote
Vote: Sevis

Pretty sure the nhammen wagon is going nowhere, although I'm still not convinced he isn't scum. I like this vote better for now.

[LimMePls]

I think this conversation has been enlightening.

Unvote: Leafsnail
Vote: Timeater (L-12)
Because SSBF won't do it do it do it, and this wagon really needs to happen, and nobody wants to vote Sevis for some reason.

LOL! See my latest post. Then come join the wagon. We have cake.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Vi (Post #629): Isn't Sevis voting for Dr. Robotnik as well?
@Vi: Just want to say, I'm not a fan of constant vote hopping. It takes me awhile or some convincing to get me to change who's my top suspect for the moment. This means if you want me to switch my vote to a person who I find suspicious, but not as much as my top suspect, you're going to have to put forth some serious efforts.

FYI LS: You're wrong about me in this game too.

Unvote, Vote: Foilist

I'm unsure on which bit you'd like me to comment on Vi.
TBH, maybe having ~10 ongoing games is a bit much, divided resources and what not.

Vi looks town to me, LS looks like (misguided) town, Vez is confirmed town (in my eyes), the others masons (Dan, Seraphim), and LMP-monk are mostly confirmed town.

This entire post has contributed almost nothing to the game. This shows no scum hunting, vote on Foilist that sounds like bandwagonning, and gives us absolutely nothing to work on. Congratulation on a scummy post.

Hmm. Well, I've had people parrot me in regards to the nhammen bandwagon, so I guess that works for you...and yeah, I've posted more then he has, which does make me more suspicious because I'm somehow lurking more...

I did say that pman5595 was lurking more then you in my analysis and in a response to you.

And when you vote for people, its because you consider them dangerous enough to be hung. No, you may not have actively campaigned to kill me, but one other person immediate followed you in voting for me.

While you are my top suspect, I am willing to give you time to revive yourself. When it gets closer to the deadline and if you remain my top suspect, then I'll start campaigning for your lynch. Right now, I'm thinking you're the most likely scum, but not I'm not absolutely sure you are.

[foilist13]

@foilist: So is Parama a bad player, or is Parama scum? What was your final opinion on nhammen?

Parama has been tunneling rather hard on nhammen with a poor case. This could be a scum move or a VI move, I'm not really sure. He doesn't respond logically to posts, he just uses emotion.

I'm still considering nhammen. I thought Parama and SerialClergyman's cases on him were terrible, so I didn't look much into him. Then he gets his massive bandwagon which made me think more about the people on the wagon than the wagon itself. Looking back I've decided he looks somewhat scummy, but there are other people who I think are much more likely to be scum, mainly Chronopie.

@Parama: Yes you had something more than OMGUS, but what you did have was worthless. That leaves OMGUS.

Now I need to go back and look at sevis, leafsnail, timeater, and Dr. Robotnik. See you all in a bit.

[Parama]

YOU HAVE NOT DISPROVED ANY OF MY LOGIC. ALL YOU HAVE DONE IS CALL IT CRAP WITHOUT GIVING ANY EVIDENCE.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Parama: Okay, you're starting to make yourself look really bad again, especially with that last post. Just want to say you're rising up on my scum bar again.

[Parama]

I'm making myself look bad because foilist is lacking any sort of logic in his posts and instead seems satisfied with calling me a VI and calling my points crap without giving reasons. Right. You're a terrible scumhunter then, sorry to tell you.

[Midnight's Sorrow]

YOU HAVE NOT DISPROVED ANY OF MY LOGIC. ALL YOU HAVE DONE IS CALL IT CRAP WITHOUT GIVING ANY EVIDENCE.

...sometimes logic doesn't need evidence to disprove it. Ever hear of common sense? Do you really need a 1,2,3 A,B,C explanation on what common sense means, and how it pertains to your...'logic'?

[Parama]

Fine, there is no sense in foilist's attacks on me and my case, happy now?

[Midnight's Sorrow]

-.- *crosses arms and thumps foot on floor*

and....?

[Parama]

there is no sense in foilist's attacks on me and my case