Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[Fishythefish]

@RC:
1. My non-hostile claim has some credibility solely as a result of being the first. If a player at L-1 claims non-hostile, there's no reason you have to believe them any more than you would a town claim.
2. I'm not playing the fear card. I am no threat, and you should lynch people who are threats. Where is the "fear card" in that argument?
3. I dislike the statement that thinking about who the best lynch is outguessing the mod. You are the one presuming things about the mod; you are presuming that he designed a game where you can win by lynching everything that's not town. That's usually a good assumption; but here, where it's totally possible the town are a minority, it's more unlikely to be true. Either way, keeping an open mind about whether it's always right to lynch non-hostile other is totally not "outguessing the mod".
4. The roleblock on you is a good point against me. I think it's possible that the reason you set so much store in that roleblock is that it was on you. The possibility that I targetted the same person as a roleblocker (the bus driver really isn't important here) is hardly a remote one.

[Fishythefish]

@RC:
1. My non-hostile claim has some credibility solely as a result of being the first. If a player at L-1 claims non-hostile, there's no reason you have to believe them any more than you would a town claim.
2. I'm not playing the fear card. I am no threat, and you should lynch people who are threats. Where is the "fear card" in that argument?
3. I dislike the statement that thinking about who the best lynch is outguessing the mod. You are the one presuming things about the mod; you are presuming that he designed a game where you can win by lynching everything that's not town. That's usually a good assumption; but here, where it's totally possible the town are a minority, it's more unlikely to be true. Either way, keeping an open mind about whether it's always right to lynch non-hostile other is totally not "outguessing the mod".
4. The roleblock on you is a good point against me. I think it's possible that the reason you set so much store in that roleblock is that it was on you. The possibility that I targetted the same person as a roleblocker (the bus driver really isn't important here) is hardly a remote one.

[DrippingGoofball]

Nico hasn't posted since the 13. We are now the 19.

I think scum is pushing that wagon on a player that flaked and is not there to defend himself.

[Jack]

hmm, but when did that wagon start? It didn't start on the 19.

[LlamaFluff]

Sill, its just not as good of a wagon as Troll wagon.

[UncertainKitten]

@DGB: Didn't he "flake" AFTER the wagon started? In fact, didn't someone say he was POSTING ELSEWHERE?

[DrippingGoofball]

hmm, but when did that wagon start? It didn't start on the 19.

Who cares when it got started. He's not going to show up and claim, he's probably going to need replacing.

Who even remembers what he posted? When he made his last post, only UKitten was voting him. This is some weird wagon. Who's on this wagon? Who's pushing it? You know, I'm beginning to think, maybe Troll is scum or other, and his team mates are pushing an alternate wagon? The whole wagon makes no sense at all.

Using msutils, he completely stopped posting anywhere on the 14.

[animorpherv1]

hmm, but when did that wagon start? It didn't start on the 19.

Who cares when it got started. He's not going to show up and claim, he's probably going to need replacing.

ITT he just posted.

[DrippingGoofball]

ITT he just posted.

Wut?

[animorpherv1]

So here's what I've got for people on my wagon at this point.

I think that Gammagooey has done the best in terms of making it clear what he doesn't like about my play. LlamaFluff seems to think that I'm a good lynch at least in part because I expressed suspicion that Chronopie didn't need to be town after he'd given his non-town result on Fishythefish. Plum mentioned that at as well but I'm waiting to see what she has in the way of a case when she puts it together.

DrippingGoofball, who thinks that I'm not mafia so far as I can tell and whose meta on me involves seeing me play a handful of games as a vanilla townie and one game as scum has decided that I'm playing this one differently. At least in part because she thinks I was enjoying it and that I would enjoy playing a Serial Killer she's apparently convinced that that's the only possible interpretation of my play. I don't think that it's particularly good reasoning (especially as I know that she's wrong) but she's holding to it tightly and I don't really think that it's outside her normal play.

All of those people have reasons of their own that I can at least point to for being on my wagon now.

StrangerCoug says that he's following DrippingGoofball's lead and when I pushed he gave some indication that he might have found the same points that Gammagooey has raised about my play to be an issue and doesn't think that I'm scumhunting but I can't tell that he's actually tried to figure out what he thinks of the other potential lynches for today. He's said that he doesn't understand the case on Nicodemus (just like apparently he couldn't understand the case on me before DrippingGoofball pointed out four posts she had made which should not have been particularly compelling taken in context.)

Chronopie originally voted for me (with no mention of me before that) for a stated reason that within a couple posts he acknowledged didn't make sense (that I was helping Fishythefish in some way.) After that he switched to believing DrippingGoofball's meta because he's heard that she's a good scum hunter. Again, I'm not sure how closely he's examined the other major suspects of the day.

Ellibereth seems to be convined that I'm a Serial Killer given his lists. I'm not actually sure why he thinks that I'm scummy. I'm not sure why he's switched from Nicodemus to me now, why he switched to Nicodemus from me earlier or why he was voting for me earlier today.

I have no idea why farside22 switched her vote to me from Fishythefish. As far as I can tell she hasn't expressed any suspicion of me prior to her vote (maybe I'm missing it somewhere) and the closest thing that I can think of is that she might think Nicodemus didn't pick scum because she's seen him play it badly in the past.

Animorphrev seems to have bought into the Zorblag is a Serial Killer line without any hesitation. I don't know if he's looked at my play to decide that or the reasons that DrippingGoofball has given or if he just went with it because people were saying it alot. I have no idea what he's read of the game at this point.

Gammagooey is probably town. I'm inclined to say the same for LlamaFluff.
DrippingGoofball shouldn't be in a faction with night kills.
Plum probably isn't in DrippingGoofball's faction unless they're both town (which is pretty possible.) Ellibereth might be (but I don't have strong read on him any which way really.)
StrangerCoug, Chronopie and Animorpherv are the three most likely to be opportunistic scum or other on the wagon. I'd guess probably 2 of the 3 of them are.
I still think that farside22 is more likely to be town than anything else but I'd really like her to talk about why she's made that most recent vote change.

d3x staying away from the wagon is odd. Actually so is popsofctown. I'd guess they're trying to stay off a mislynch so that they might look better. Nicodemus has indeed dissapeared under pressure.

@Those that think I'm a Serial Killer, why does DrippingGoofball's case convince you that in particular rather than just some non-vanilla role? She's only ever seen my play vanilla townie or goon in the past. Do you think that the mafia has a night kill this game? If so why do you think that we've got a Serial Killer at all? We had two kills last night; xvart was a major wagon and I'd really guess that he was a vigilante kill. Ojanen was almost certainly a scum kill but she's the only one. Do you think that other kills were blocked or something?

I do agree that it's worth trying to lynch a Serial Killer but I don't see why you think that there must be one here or why I should be one if we've got one.

I'll ask you, if you're voting for me because you think that I'm a Serial Killer believing DrippingGoofball's meta take to actually look at the case being presented. I'm not a Serial Killer and I really think that there's scummier play out there than mine that's not hard to find.

My top guesses for mafia or hostile other right now are, in order, popsofctown, Nicodemus, d3x and Shotty to the Body but I'm going to be pragmatic. The Fishythefish lynch clearly won't be happening and I remain perplexed that town didn't express more interest in trying to get him to target Gammagooey tonight to test that Paranoid Gun Owner claim and eliminate an other without needing to use a lynch for it. Even if it couldn't work out that's an arrangment that town should have been really thrilled to potentially have happen.

##Unvote
##Vote: Nicodemus

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Jack]

Ani is really focused on the troll wagon it seems.

[animorpherv1]

Ani is really focused on the troll wagon it seems.

IMO, I'd rather not have the point grabbers grab points and get too far ahead of themselves, or else they'll betrying to force the lynches. We want

town

to force the lynches.

[LlamaFluff]

Why must policy lynches either always get confirmed town roles or replace into town read spots? Why cant they replace into scummy player slot?

@ani - We are talking about Nico, not Zorblag

[Jack]

If I'd posted that 10 seconds earlier it would have looked a lot more insightful.

[DrippingGoofball]

hmm, but when did that wagon start? It didn't start on the 19.

Who cares when it got started. He's not going to show up and claim, he's probably going to need replacing.

ITT he just posted.

NICODEMUS. I'm talking about Nicodemus not posting...

[animorpherv1]

hmm, but when did that wagon start? It didn't start on the 19.

Who cares when it got started. He's not going to show up and claim, he's probably going to need replacing.

ITT he just posted.

NICODEMUS. I'm talking about Nicodemus not posting...

Derp.

[Fishythefish]

IMO, I'd rather not have the point grabbers grab points and get too far ahead of themselves, or else they'll betrying to force the lynches. We want

town

to force the lynches.

@ani: I really don't understand this stance at all. Why would points grabbers try to force lynches more if they had more points?

[animorpherv1]

IMO, I'd rather not have the point grabbers grab points and get too far ahead of themselves, or else they'll betrying to force the lynches. We want

town

to force the lynches.

@ani: I really don't understand this stance at all. Why would points grabbers try to force lynches more if they had more points?

So the others groups don't get a chance to pull any tricks.

[Fishythefish]

But... what? We are likely talking about factions of size 2-3. These factions do not know how the other factions are doing. They can't force a lynch with 3 people, even if they knew the right lynch to force. In my particular case, if I could force a lynch I'd only do so on scum.

Your worries really make absolutely no sense. And you are saying that this is worth avoiding lynching scum over? That's pure insanity.

[DrippingGoofball]

@ani: I really don't understand this stance at all. Why would points grabbers try to force lynches more if they had more points?

You point grabbers ARE screwing up with the town lynches.

You are forcing us AWAY from a cult-recruiter lynch - Jack.
You are forcing us AWAY from a possible SK lynch - Troll.
You are forcing us to ELIMINATE your competitors - farside.

[animorpherv1]

@ani: I really don't understand this stance at all. Why would points grabbers try to force lynches more if they had more points?

A) You point grabbers ARE screwing up with the town lynches.

B) You are forcing us AWAY from a cult-recruiter lynch - Jack.
C) You are forcing us AWAY from a possible SK lynch - Troll.
D) You are forcing us to ELIMINATE your competitors - farside.

A) WRONG. I'm not a point grabber. Also, from here on out, I assume you point grabber
B) LATER.
C) WRONG. I'm on the Trol lwagon.
D) WRONG. This has to happen eventually.

[DrippingGoofball]

Geez ani.

I'm talking to Fishy, excoriating the point grabbers.

Did I say you're a point grabber? NO.

Time for you to check into rehab, kid.

[animorpherv1]

Time for you to check into rehab, kid.

You need to label better.

[Fishythefish]

@ani: I really don't understand this stance at all. Why would points grabbers try to force lynches more if they had more points?

You point grabbers ARE screwing up with the town lynches.

You are forcing us AWAY from a cult-recruiter lynch - Jack.
You are forcing us AWAY from a possible SK lynch - Troll.
You are forcing us to ELIMINATE your competitors - farside.

You say these alignments like they are known. Jack being a cult recruiter is a random stab in the dark, from what I've seen.

It's true that at least my faction prefer to kill mafia than SKs. That's hardly major screwing up of lynches. IF others have the same condition, it's not going to be so easy to lynch out SKs if there are also outed mafia. But how often does that really happen? I don't think this is likely to cause major problems for the town. It's much easier to determine someone is not town than to discern between types of antitown - particularly because someone playing unusually (eg. Troll here) could just as well be a point scorer as a SK.

In what way is anyone forcing anyone to eliminate farside? Last I checked farside had no votes and no suspicion.

[LlamaFluff]

Time for you to check into rehab, kid.

You need to label better.

labeling was fine. Someone elses comprehension was off