Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[farside22]

Farsides vote switch is hilarious though.

[d3x]

And SK hunting is better than mafia lynching WHY?

It isn't and I didn't say that it was.

Fishy said that his goals are not Town, but aligned with Town. If his position is that Lynching NonHostile Others is his priority over Hostile Others, he's either Lying Scum or AntiTown. Hostile Others are by definition AntiTown and he's more inclined to let them live and go after NonHostile Town, which he claims are proTown.

[animorpherv1]

Also Hai Ani.

Opinion's on Fishy's claim, Zorblag's probably alignment, Farside's probably alignment, Jack's lack of refutation of being cult, and opinion of groupings in general.

This one? Fishy's alignment seems about right, considering how much he knows about it. I'm following the group with Zorblag, sicne SK = worse the point grabber, IMO. I have to watch farside a bit more untill i get a solid read on her, and same with Jack.

[Ellibereth]

Ok I was right about Ani earlier and wrong now so yeah, the chart way earlier is right.

[Jack]

farside is bussing troll (her SK partner).

[charter]

##unvote
##vote D3x

I'd rather lynch him over Troll.

[StrangerCoug]

farside is bussing troll (her SK partner).

I thought SK's were on their own?

[zoraster]

Day 2 Vote Count

charter ( 0 )
Chronopie ( 0 )
d3x ( 1 ) charter
Debonair Danny DiPietro ( 0 )
DrippingGoofball ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 3 ) Zorblag RedCoyote d3x
Gammagooey ( 0 )
imaginality ( 0 )
Jack ( 2 ) popsofctown Shotty to the Body
StrangerCoug ( 0 )
LLamaFluff ( 0 )
Nicodemus ( 5 ) fishythefish UncertainKitten Debonair Danny DiPietro Jack imaginality
animorpherv1 ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 0 )
RedCoyote ( 0 )
Shotty to the Body ( 1 ) Nicodemus
UncertainKitten ( 0 )
Plum ( 0 )
Zorblag ( 9 ) Plum LLamaFluff DrippingGoofball Gammagooey StrangerCoug Chronopie Ellibereth farside22 animorpherv1
Not Voting ( 0 )
Total Votes ( 21 )

Deadline: May 24th at 11:00 EDT
With 21 able to vote, 11 needed to lynch.

Give me a little patience, I'm still on vacation

[animorpherv1]

##unvote
##vote D3x

I'd rather lynch him over Troll.

Dear charter,

If we lynch him (aka mafia) then point grabbers get points. WE DON'T WANT THAT.

Signed,

~animorpherv1

[Chronopie]

I don't see why Lynching a Mafioso is ever a bad thing Ani (barring Fire and Ice, and other 1:1:1 lylo and similar situations).

So some point grabbers gain points. Maybe other point grabbers lose points?

Either way, the Town still benefits through

Dead Scum.

[animorpherv1]

I don't see why Lynching a Mafioso is ever a bad thing Ani (barring Fire and Ice, and other 1:1:1 lylo and similar situations).

So some point grabbers gain points. Maybe other point grabbers lose points?

Either way, the Town still benefits through

Dead Scum.

But the point is, to make sure

they don't start trying to grab all the points they possibly can

so they listen to us, or we lynch them.

[Gammagooey]

Finally the game gets interesting again.

Curiousity strikes, am I the only one voting Zorblag because of his play and not because of thinking he's a likely serial killer?


Some of these posts are making my head fucking hurt.
d3x, explain something to me.

UnVote
##Vote:Fishythefish

You've been arguing that you're not Town, but not AntiTown. I say that your stance here

is

AntiTown. An SK is a direct threat to the Town and thus you're putting your own point scoring agenda above the best interests of the Town.

So you go on a tirade on "you won't vote for Zorblag ur antitown". Right-o.
But you're ALSO not voting Zorblag, and you never have.
what.


Ani- I think you're thinking the points work way way different from how I think the points work.
Hypothetical time!
ALL THE POINT GRABBERS GRAB ALL THE POINTS THAT EVER WAS. What do you think will happen? Because to everyone who

isn't

a point faction, this is what I think will happen:

[Chronopie]

Dead Scum > petty point grabber mini-game.

Besides, if they get points from Dead scum, they will listen to the town, because the town wants dead scum too. Common goal.

--

That said, Dead Zorblag-Sk = good too. Less NK's = more chance of Others living to lynch scum and gain points.

[Zorblag]

So here's what I've got for people on my wagon at this point.

I think that Gammagooey has done the best in terms of making it clear what he doesn't like about my play. LlamaFluff seems to think that I'm a good lynch at least in part because I expressed suspicion that Chronopie didn't need to be town after he'd given his non-town result on Fishythefish. Plum mentioned that at as well but I'm waiting to see what she has in the way of a case when she puts it together.

DrippingGoofball, who thinks that I'm not mafia so far as I can tell and whose meta on me involves seeing me play a handful of games as a vanilla townie and one game as scum has decided that I'm playing this one differently. At least in part because she thinks I was enjoying it and that I would enjoy playing a Serial Killer she's apparently convinced that that's the only possible interpretation of my play. I don't think that it's particularly good reasoning (especially as I know that she's wrong) but she's holding to it tightly and I don't really think that it's outside her normal play.

All of those people have reasons of their own that I can at least point to for being on my wagon now.

StrangerCoug says that he's following DrippingGoofball's lead and when I pushed he gave some indication that he might have found the same points that Gammagooey has raised about my play to be an issue and doesn't think that I'm scumhunting but I can't tell that he's actually tried to figure out what he thinks of the other potential lynches for today. He's said that he doesn't understand the case on Nicodemus (just like apparently he couldn't understand the case on me before DrippingGoofball pointed out four posts she had made which should not have been particularly compelling taken in context.)

Chronopie originally voted for me (with no mention of me before that) for a stated reason that within a couple posts he acknowledged didn't make sense (that I was helping Fishythefish in some way.) After that he switched to believing DrippingGoofball's meta because he's heard that she's a good scum hunter. Again, I'm not sure how closely he's examined the other major suspects of the day.

Ellibereth seems to be convined that I'm a Serial Killer given his lists. I'm not actually sure why he thinks that I'm scummy. I'm not sure why he's switched from Nicodemus to me now, why he switched to Nicodemus from me earlier or why he was voting for me earlier today.

I have no idea why farside22 switched her vote to me from Fishythefish. As far as I can tell she hasn't expressed any suspicion of me prior to her vote (maybe I'm missing it somewhere) and the closest thing that I can think of is that she might think Nicodemus didn't pick scum because she's seen him play it badly in the past.

Animorphrev seems to have bought into the Zorblag is a Serial Killer line without any hesitation. I don't know if he's looked at my play to decide that or the reasons that DrippingGoofball has given or if he just went with it because people were saying it alot. I have no idea what he's read of the game at this point.

Gammagooey is probably town. I'm inclined to say the same for LlamaFluff.
DrippingGoofball shouldn't be in a faction with night kills.
Plum probably isn't in DrippingGoofball's faction unless they're both town (which is pretty possible.) Ellibereth might be (but I don't have strong read on him any which way really.)
StrangerCoug, Chronopie and Animorpherv are the three most likely to be opportunistic scum or other on the wagon. I'd guess probably 2 of the 3 of them are.
I still think that farside22 is more likely to be town than anything else but I'd really like her to talk about why she's made that most recent vote change.

d3x staying away from the wagon is odd. Actually so is popsofctown. I'd guess they're trying to stay off a mislynch so that they might look better. Nicodemus has indeed dissapeared under pressure.

@Those that think I'm a Serial Killer, why does DrippingGoofball's case convince you that in particular rather than just some non-vanilla role? She's only ever seen my play vanilla townie or goon in the past. Do you think that the mafia has a night kill this game? If so why do you think that we've got a Serial Killer at all? We had two kills last night; xvart was a major wagon and I'd really guess that he was a vigilante kill. Ojanen was almost certainly a scum kill but she's the only one. Do you think that other kills were blocked or something?

I do agree that it's worth trying to lynch a Serial Killer but I don't see why you think that there must be one here or why I should be one if we've got one.

I'll ask you, if you're voting for me because you think that I'm a Serial Killer believing DrippingGoofball's meta take to actually look at the case being presented. I'm not a Serial Killer and I really think that there's scummier play out there than mine that's not hard to find.

My top guesses for mafia or hostile other right now are, in order, popsofctown, Nicodemus, d3x and Shotty to the Body but I'm going to be pragmatic. The Fishythefish lynch clearly won't be happening and I remain perplexed that town didn't express more interest in trying to get him to target Gammagooey tonight to test that Paranoid Gun Owner claim and eliminate an other without needing to use a lynch for it. Even if it couldn't work out that's an arrangment that town should have been really thrilled to potentially have happen.

##Unvote
##Vote: Nicodemus

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[d3x]

So you go on a tirade on "you won't vote for Zorblag ur antitown". Right-o.
But you're ALSO not voting Zorblag, and you never have.

Incorrect. It has nothing to do with Troll {you guys are talking about him like he's actually Confirmed SK}. It has to do with Fishy saying that he'd go after NonHostile Others before Hostile Others and somehow trying to spin that as ProTown.

[Gammagooey]

d3x- So let me get this straight. Your entire fishy vote is based on a hypothetical situation in which there's a non-Zorblag serial killer/hostile other and fishy can tell them apart from regular scum?

[d3x]

Fishy said that his goals are not Town, but aligned with Town. If his position is that Lynching NonHostile Others is his priority over Hostile Others, he's either Lying Scum or AntiTown. Hostile Others are by definition AntiTown and he's more inclined to let them live and go after NonHostile Town, which he claims are proTown.

[d3x]

^^aka- We have a 100% Confirmed NonTown Role that has been tracked to a Claimed RB. He's saying that his intentions are proTown, but that is not true if he'd rather go after NonHostile Others {as he Claims he is} over Hostile Others.

[Gammagooey]

You know when

I

go into hypothetical situation land, I have the courtesy to tell people about it. What MYSTICAL ABILITY do you think fishy has that will allow him to tell Hostile Others apart from both mafia and Non-hostile others? How exactly is fishy going to go after all the mafia and leave the hostile others alone?

[d3x]

/sigh

There was a debate earlier today about whether we could trust Fishy's intentions or not. If I'm alone here in thinking that he just flat out told us that we can't trust his intentions, then so be it. Lying Scum or AntiTown. My Vote stands.

[Fishythefish]

Fishy said that his goals are not Town, but aligned with Town. If his position is that Lynching NonHostile Others is his priority over Hostile Others, he's either Lying Scum or AntiTown. Hostile Others are by definition AntiTown and he's more inclined to let them live and go after NonHostile Town, which he claims are proTown.

Look. My goals are not that of the town. I'm not always going to do the best thing for the town.

But that should not be an automatic reason to lynch me. I'm working, always, for a good - if not best - outcome for the town.

The position is that almost all the time, I will be working for something which is very good for the town. I think that means that my vote is worth having around, and certainly that's lynching me is not worth it.

Some of my actions are antitown. That should not be a reason to automatically lynch me. As a

player

I am not antitown - in the sense that my continued presence in this game will help the town more than it will hurt it.

To bring back the cop analogy; what I meant was, a cop not investigating is an antitown

action

. That doesn't make him an antitown

player

, and certainly doesn't make him a good lynch. Obviously, in my case it's a little less obvious whether I'm an antitown player or not, but I think it's fairly clear that an otherwise protown player who doesn't like lynching SKs in the rare cases they admit to being such is not a good lynch.

[Fishythefish]

Wait wait wait what? ani doesn't want to lynch mafia so that I don't get points?
1) Why don't you want me to get points? My win con and the town's are totally independent. There's no reason that I'll listen to you more if I have fewer points.
2) How can you possibly think that leaving mafia alive so that point scorers don't score points is a good idea? When will you be up for lynching mafia?

Troll should probably claim, given the votecount.

If he's going to be lynched, I'd be grateful if people gave me a chance to get on his wagon first - I think it's more likely to do me good than harm, pointswise. Should be on in about 14 hours.

Still much more up for a Nico lynch.

[Shotty to the Body]

My gut tells me troll is town. Not going to vote for that lynch, I would also prefer Nico.

@Fishy: You gave us some info earlier about the point teams, do you know if one of them is like you but trying to help scum?

[RedCoyote]

@ RC

Purdy sure Fishy is still lying about stuff. But he's not killing people at night.

And you know that how? Because he told you he was non-hostile. Because he would never lie to you, hm?

---

@RC: I have? Wait what? Where? Huh? Please, explain yourself? I don't believe I ever said anything about voting other non hostiles. What game are you reading?

Secondly, where did I ever say Fishy was being completely truthful? I think my stance is that he's not a good lynch when we COULD BE LYNCHING OBVIOUS MAFIOSI!

I'm sorry; I meant Plum. There are too many people in this game, lol.

What obvious mafia? DGB says Zorblag is not playing to his meta so that's good enough for you? I mean, in Nico's case, I agree rolefishing is unsavory, but why leave Fishy alive to throw around his night actions (that lead to roleblocking), especially if you don't think he's telling the truth?

---

There was a debate earlier today about whether we could trust Fishy's intentions or not. If I'm alone here in thinking that he just flat out told us that we can't trust his intentions, then so be it. Lying Scum or AntiTown. My Vote stands.

You're not alone in thinking that, d3x. I really don't care if my vote is obsolete. I was roleblocked, and we have someone here that very likely visited me. Instead of going off that strong piece of evidence, the rest of the game rather call me scum and say that setup speculation (Fishy must have been driven) and outguessing the Mod (only scum are good lynches, others shouldn't be touched) is a better town strategy.

And as much as I love Fishy and love to play with him, the fear card is the oldest trick in the book. "I may not be on your side... but there are others worse than me!" That may or may not be true, but it's completely irrelevant. He is not part of the town, he is actively harming the town, and he's not cooperating with the town. Guess what? If Fishy isn't mafia, then the mafia sure has heck won't bother killing him off. If the town has a Vig, sure, Fishy would be a good shot, but what if the Vig is limited in shots? I'm just waiting for the wagon to build on an "actual" mafia member, and then when that player goes, "Uh, I'm non-hostile, too!", what the Fishy friends will say about that. Some are so worried about "wasting" a lynch (God forbid we lynch someone who isn't anti-town

enough

), that we're probably going to end up taking out a townie.

[UncertainKitten]

@RC: Nico is pretty fucking obvious mafia.

I don't think Fishy is lying about points, just that he's not telling the whole truth.

As for speculating on mafiosi claiming non hostile, wellllllllllllllll...

We'll deal with that when the time comes.