NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[Unsight]

hihi

/noms pom and pie

[Unsight]

We should be lynching SSBF D1 anyways, I don't see why it's important.

If you quick hammer me, you run a higher risk of killing a townie.

Let's run Day 1 ful or at least almost full course before deciding on the list.

I read the colored as: "Don't lynch me, I

might

be town."

vote: SSBF

[Unsight]

Also and in the interest of getting my own notes in order, if I could get everyone to answer this exhaustive and highly scientific questionnaire:

1 How many games have you finished, here or elsewhere? (I don't particularly need to know details here)
2 Do you consider yourself an experienced player?
3 Are we there yet?
4 How about now?

1. Lots.
2. Not lately.
3. No.
4. No and if you ask me that one more time I'm stopping the car.

[Unsight]

The more Parama talks, the more I want to rescind my initial Town read on him and/or smack him through the Internet.

SSBF is most likely naive VI-Town. Emphasis on all of naive, VI, and Town.

I don't know if Chronopie is

trying

to look scummy, or if this is just normal, but stuff like 131 makes me twitch.
My favorite scumhunting tool told me "

Prediction hazy, ask again

".

But let's take a look elsewhere at what I was seeing earlier.
askbob, vezopiraka, SGRaaize, and LynchMePlz all softly egged on the SSBF wagon without actually taking the active role Parama did and/or tried to use their own "unique" brand of arguments against SSBF (askbob 65, vezo 77, LMP's MASSIVE fence-sit in 88). The chance of all of them being Town is nil.

My vote's going to the one who IMO had the most weak comments of them all

on top of

lurking in New York while not posting earlier. (I've already looked at the other games in this subforum; he's not in any of them.)

Vote: vezopiraka

(L-11)

Why did you make some text blue and some text purple? It seems like you're trying to draw more attention to your post than might have gotten otherwise.

[Unsight]

*lame attempt to discredit Vi*

ok

@Unsight 155: The former is a reference to the Magic 8 Ball. The latter is something held over from Rainbow Robot etc.

It seems like you're trying to draw more attention to your post than might have gotten otherwise.

W...hat kind of accusation is this?

Huh. Well, it's an observation. You didn't use colors like that in your last several games or at all in fact. Blue and purple text certainly did catch my attention though so I was wondering if that was the purpose.

[Unsight]

@SerialClergyman

Please explain what you meant when you said that my first post was an "overjustification." I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Your second part is a pretty blatant misrep. I asked Vi what the purpose of his coloring was. I didn't say it was suspicious. I'm well-aware of my own use of magenta in place of bold/underline.

You come out swinging at me but your argument amounts to you not "getting" SSBF wagon and a misrep.

But you know... since you're not getting a scum read on SSBF, I'd like your opinion on this post, specifically the last sentence.

[Unsight]

Huh. Well, it's an observation. You didn't use colors like that in your last several games or at all in fact. Blue and purple text certainly did catch my attention though so I was wondering if that was the purpose.

"Last several games"? I thought I was supposed to be the one stalking you
Come on, I really don't want to have a repeat of the last game. (Unless you're scum.) What have you noticed going on ITT that scum are more likely to do?

That would depend on SSBF's alignment wouldn't you say?

[Unsight]

The overjustification is because everyone was jumping on the wagon, we all get why. But you had to find a little reason, find a specific point that you could rely on in case public opinion turns.

Well, rather than presume, I'll ask - why did you mention Vi's use of colour?

My opinion on that post is that almost all of it fits perfectly with my opinion of SSBF at the moment. But that last line is utterly bizarre, I'll give you that.

I didn't recall seeing colors in any of Vi's recent threads so it was worth asking why. There's always a "why" and it never hurts to know what that is even if only for the sake of curiosity.

Here's a question for you though: Vi didn't actually answer my question and even went so far as to chop it out of a two sentence quote... why did he do that?

[Unsight]

@SSBF - What's your opinion on leafsnail?

[Unsight]

Now a question for you: What is your opinion on Parama/Leafsnail? Both or choosing just one of them will do.

Parama came at you pretty hard right out of the gate but oddly without mentioning the two scummiest things about you (see my ISO). Leafsnail knocked the wind out of his sails and then sunk his battleship. Pretty sure Parama didn't think his arguments through. Kind of scummy but also typical for Parama. The thought also crossed my mind that he's busing and jumped on your wagon first to look pro-town in a wagon analysis down the road but, again, this is Parama so it's iffy.

Leafsnail is an easier read. He hit Parama like a truck, put it in reverse, and did it again. I'd like to think he didn't try the same to me because I'm voting you for non-stupid reasons but I think Parama was just an easier target all-around. You flip scum and it very much looks like chainsawing. Also, not liking the daniel vote at all. If the mason group is telling the truth then we'll know pretty fast. I somehow doubt a mafia team and a werewolf team would let them all live to end game (that would be cool though). I really can't think of a pro-town reason for voting any member of this self-proclaimed mason team.

[Unsight]

I explained because my masonmates were being retarded. It seemed required to claim.

Also, I just found out from the mod that it's possible that my masonmates might be werewolves.

Great. So much for confirmed town.

Explain this.

The whole point of "Mason" and not "Neighbor" is the whole confirmed town part.

Request clarification from mod?

[Unsight]

Leafsnail is an easier read. He hit Parama like a truck, put it in reverse, and did it again. I'd like to think he didn't try the same to me because I'm voting you for non-stupid reasons but I think Parama was just an easier target all-around. You flip scum and it very much looks like chainsawing. Also, not liking the daniel vote at all. If the mason group is telling the truth then we'll know pretty fast. I somehow doubt a mafia team and a werewolf team would let them all live to end game (that would be cool though). I really can't think of a pro-town reason for voting any member of this self-proclaimed mason team.

Uh... I can't tell if you're calling me town or scum for attacking Parama. Can you clarify, please?

Neither. Attacking Parama was a null tell but it would make an SSBF scumflip look bad on you. Also I was having a moment yesterday and thought you voted a mason after the mason claim (double checked and it was before). We're cool I guess.

[Unsight]

@Chronopie: I'd like for you to answer this question.

Who are your suspects now? You can list up to six, but no more then that.

Didn't I just see this question somewhere?

Wait, I did:

Chronopie - I want to ask you a fairly simple question - who do you think is scum? I ask as your last 4 posts don't seem to contain any mention of it. Your last two posts especially look active lurky, discussing how stupid the masons are instead of looking for scum.

[Unsight]

@Vi - How good do you feel about your read on SSBF?

[Unsight]

@Vi - How good do you feel about your read on SSBF?

Quite a bit actually.
I take it you don't agree?

The Goat and Dr. Robotnik still haven't done anything to make me think they're something other than scum, so etc. ChronoCircleConstant could go either way tbh.

This thread needs more Sevis, SGRaaize, and Dry-fit.

Opposite actually. I read something and think I had an epiphany.


Outside of SSBF, I have a pretty decent scum read on C-pie. The whole "So a mason could also be a cop" thing from 260 reads to me like he's trying to direct scum to shoot the masons. Seems unnecessary for obvious reasons and I can't think of a pro-town reason to even go there the way he did.

unvote. vote: C-pie

[Unsight]

Outside of SSBF, I have a pretty decent scum read on C-pie. The whole "So a mason could also be a cop" thing from 260 reads to me like he's trying to direct scum to shoot the masons. Seems unnecessary for obvious reasons and I can't think of a pro-town reason to even go there the way he did.

Can I assume from this that you think he is a werewolf trying to keep the mafia away?

Not really. I'm not convinced there has to be scum in the mason group. I just came from a game where everyone assumed there was at least 1 scum in a 3-person neighborhood and mislynched in lylo. Not inclined to do that here when it looks like a self-solving problem anyway.

[Unsight]

foilest is probably town, although totally wasting his efforts on someone who won't get lynched today. Vi is probably town, he's just prickly enough to convince me he's goign through his standard town opening. Super smash and Parama remain town.

I don't get this:

Outside of SSBF, I have a pretty decent scum read on C-pie. The whole "So a mason could also be a cop" thing from 260 reads to me like he's trying to direct scum to shoot the masons. Seems unnecessary for obvious reasons and I can't think of a pro-town reason to even go there the way he did.

What I'm struggling with is the pro-scum reason to do that.

Scum can daytalk in this game

, so what on Earth would be the point of publicly trying to convince your scummates to attack the masons? Unless you mean he was tryign to convince the OTHER scum group.

Unsight's posts make me twitch. I'd be happy with that lynch.

Yo nhammen - where you at?

I just reread the rules a bunch of times along with all the mod's posts in this thread and the sign-up thread in the Queue and I have no idea where that came from. Either I missed a rather important piece of information somewhere along the way or that's one heck of a scumslip.

[Unsight]

@parama's wall of text

They're VOTING for each other now?? What the hell kind of mason team is this?

I will take the 6)answer: Something you didn't talk about.

Seraphim claimed for whatever stupid reason he had.
I'll Unvote
Vote daniel94581

1) Saying it's something I didn't think of isn't good enough. You have to explain what that is, because I'm pretty sure I exhausted the possibilities.

2) If you do have some kind of magic role, why don't your mason mates know about it? The only reason I can think of is because you are a werewolf.

3) Normally I would be extremely annoyed at you for voting without an explanation. You however took it to the next level and not only didn't explain your vote, you voted for your mason mate! You're supposed to KNOW their alignment. If they could be werewolves, then yes he COULD be scum, but that isn't anything close to a reason to vote for him. The probability of him being scum is actually lower for him than your average player.

Reasons. Now.

You don't see any rolefishing in this post? It's all just rhetoric to you?

It's also weird to see you FoS/HoS some of the biggest suspects of the last 10 pages and vote none of them. Seems like you're giving lip service to the various bandwagons to gain support for this one.

[Unsight]

This is exactly why nhammen's scum. The defence is 'But he WAS rolefishing' rather than 'But he is likely to be scum'. I can't tell you how many times scum are the first to overreact to anything that looks like rolefishing (devotress in PYP1, Percy and Baltar in Amished mafia, roflcopter and Yossarian in /inv 4 - these are all in my wiki if you want to check). It's because if they're ever questioned about their suspicions, they don't have to make a case about that person being scum, or show their suspicions - they just need to say 'ROLEFISHING IS BAD, THAT POST IS ROLEFISHING'.

I don't think that nhammen actually believes foilest and chrono are scum because they are rolefishing.

Look at his posts - he's telling them to STOP rolefishing, rather than telling the town that he believes he's caught scum.

AND it comes after a suspiciously long absence without him saying much.

That's smarter than Parama's entire ISO.

The speed at which C-Pie jumped on the wagon is worrisome though so I'll keep my vote where it is.

[Unsight]

I am a monk (functionally the same as a mason). I am one of three. Vezo is one of the other monks. I choose to not disclose the third monks identity at this time.

As a monk, I know that my monk partners ARE NOT werewolves. I do not know if they are mafia or not.

So much for my epiphany.

FoS: SSBF

(for original voting reasons)

FoS: Vi

(for this post)

After nhammen mentioned the possibility of another town group (monks), I figured that's the only thing that would explain Vi's town read on SSBF and voting one of SSBF's attackers seemingly to shut down SSBF's wagon. Since that's no longer the case, both of them look pretty scummy now.

[Unsight]

You know... I don't like this nhammen wagon.

Before Parama's post, I had a null, maybe slightly town leaning read on nhammen. He was pretty helpful mentioning the possibility of monks and he was being pretty open with his votes/thoughts. Nothing was really bothering me about his posts.

Then when Parama made his big post, I went and read nhammen's post and foilist13's posts that nhammen called rolefishing. The questions foilist13 was asking could really only satisfactorily be answered by telling more about vezo's role. It really seems like Parama was deliberately ignoring that. If Parama is ignoring some things to push his case then I figure he might be ignoring others as well.

SC mentioned something really smart about how nhamman was calling out the rolefishing but not saying the person was scum. That kind of thing bugs me but it bugs me on the same level as seeing Parama call out one of Chronopie's posts as a scumslip, vote him, and then go back to nhammen justifying it with "lol he's using meta." If I see a genuine scumslip, I'm really not inclined to move my vote away so easily so seeing Parama change back to nhammen for seemingly much flimsier reasoning is worrisome. Looks more like wagon testing than scum hunting to me. SC may be onto something, but Parama's activity just makes the nhammen wagon feel dirty to me.

That said, I'm pretty happy with my vote on Chronopie. He goes from hinting that a mason could be a cop to mentioning that a mason could be werewolf. The second part wouldn't have been problematic if not for the first part. The first part doesn't really have a pro-town explanation. What would make sense to me is if Chronopie is a werewolf, wants the masons dead, and is trying to get the mafia to kill the masons so his team doesn't have to. If you look at his actions that way then the second post takes on an entirely new meaning.

FWIW, that's where I am right now.

[Unsight]

That said, I'm pretty happy with my vote on Chronopie. He goes from hinting that a mason could be a cop to mentioning that a mason could be werewolf. The second part wouldn't have been problematic if not for the first part. The first part doesn't really have a pro-town explanation. What would make sense to me is if Chronopie is a werewolf, wants the masons dead, and is trying to get the mafia to kill the masons so his team doesn't have to. If you look at his actions that way then the second post takes on an entirely new meaning.

FWIW, that's where I am right now.

I'm not following with your Chronopie votelynch.
He said that its true that a cop could be among the masons, because its randomized on any non-mafia user.
He then said that its true that a werewolf could be among the masons, because its randomized on any non-mafia user.

...
Yeah... I'm not sure if I follow, maybe I'm just being a dumbass

I don't see the purpose of the first part. Reads more as "Oh by the way, a mason could be a cop." Doesn't seem good at all to draw even more attention to them and he did it twice.

Still, I'll reread the thread tomorrow after a good night's sleep and make sure I think I'm still on the right track.

[Unsight]

Reading through ISOs looking for things that haven't been mentioned a bazillion times already.

Now obligatory mod gaming from me. Lowell is scum.

If anyone knows how I deduced this gets 6 vez points.

Because it takes one to know one?

Lowell, what does this mean?

[Unsight]

Also could someone please answer my previous question. People were saying that Lowell admitted he was scum. I looked back twice but didn't see it. Could I have a quote?

Look at the last post in my ISO before this one. When vezo calls Lowell scum, Lowell says "takes one to know one" implying that Vezo knew Lowell was scum by being scum himself. Not exactly an ironclad admission but it's worth some scrutiny toward Lowell. That really never hurts anyway--I learned in Mafia 110 that Lowell only really becomes forthcoming with his suspicions when under suspicion himself. Even his pro-town playstyle usually involves a lot of coasting when no one is looking at him.

[Unsight]

Unsight's just being a brick wall, which isn't necessarily scummy by itself.

What is a "brick wall" in mafia and, if it's not scummy, why have you mentioned it multiple times? (I remember seeing another post before this one mentioning it)

[Unsight]

*Unsight's last two posts seem like filler. I'm particularly not thrilled with trying to get a read on this slot, but he seems more in the background than the last time I considered lynching him D1. (Or maybe that's me being tired, etc.)

I'm a lot more in the background this game unfortunately.

I have two other games where people have been actively trying to get me lynched and my time for mafia has been very short these last few days so a lot of my energy has been spent in those versus this one. Despite limited time, I'm doing my best to keep up with the game, give input on the wagons that keep starting, and point out the things that stand out to me.

[Unsight]

I think Timeater should be the final vote on Chronopie. It would be hilariously fitting.

[Unsight]

How could Unsight knew he was a werewolf and not a mafioso?

That has to do with Unsight's role though... How would this be any reflection on chrono? If Unsight is ww, then its WIFOM. If Unsight is Mafia, then it means Unsight knows that they aren't the same alignment. If Unsight is Town, then it's baseless.

Er, I don't "know" anything for sure.

My theory is that Chronopie was trying to guide the mafia kill by dropping hints that masons could be cops or werewolves. If Chronopie flips WW then it's 99% certain there's no scum in the mason group as I really don't see scum painting that big of a target on themselves. One dead scum and three mostly-confirmed townies would be pretty nice to have on Day 2.

[Unsight]

Wooo, Day 2 starts with a bang.

As promised, I have more time now and will be more active.

Vote:Sevis

Because Vi had strong scum vibes from him. And after ISOing Sevis. I agree.

Also GL SGR ^^

Why didn't you agree yesterday?

[Unsight]

I had a really strong town read from Vi, as did most other people. This is something worth looking into. We need to look at people who conflicted with him and who thought Vi was scummy.

@vezopiraka: That would be animorpherv1.

@Parama: We have to remember that

Vi got a strong town read from a lot of people here, especially me

who at one time consider him my strongest town read,

so no surprise he died

.

Tell me more about Vi's unsurprising demise.

[Unsight]

Because Vi, while adamant about him being scum, switched votes on a dime. It was hard to discern if he was being serious, or throwing everyone through a loop. That he was revealed town suggests to me otherwise, and thus I look at the Vi/Sevis tango in a more harsher light.

I refuse to throw away a night kill as possible evidence because of WIFOM tendencies. There is some truth in its silver linings, and I think we should look at this in a more, open, approach then what is being made today. I mean, GOD! we have some days to kill. We don't need to jump on every little thing and make big deals out of it. I say look at other avenues of scumminess, instead of focusing on one? I don;t think it would hurt. In fact, it would probably be far more beneficial right?

What about Sevis looks scummy after Vi's death but not before?

[Unsight]

Other stuff: Unsight's been backgroundish. Also she's not a mason, I am, so therefore scum (note this is a joke due to previous games together)

Was too busy being backgroundish on Day 1 to reply but you totally replaced in just to say this didn't you?

Good question.

In other news

Vote SGRaaize

Why is no one else commenting on this?

SGR's sole contributions to Day 1 were trying to lynch the masons and asking if he was himself a dumbass.

@Faraday: What do you think of MS, SSBF, and LMP?

[Unsight]

I roleblocked SGR.

I don't think there is any chance of NK WIFOM, but there is something else I am worried about.

More comments after I catch up on ... 3 pages in the past 12 hours? Which will happen after the movie I'm watching ends...

In the meantime:

vote SGR

Something else? You mean the fact that all our masons and monks are still alive while a non-mason, non-monk is dead?

vote: SGR

[Unsight]

Guys, the NK could easily be an attempt to frame Sevis, though I admit he's pretty scummy.

I would say MS is probably town because of the quick bandwagon but in a 2-faction game who knows?

However SSBF is looking mighty scummy again, trying to push the lynch without giving any real good reasons.

Vote: SSBF

. Why you guys made me change my vote D1, I will never know.

Considering how bandwagon happy you were with your vote yesterday, it's a bit odd to see you avoiding both the major wagons today.

What read do you get on MS from his ISO?

What are your thoughts on SGR from his ISO?

And who made your change your vote on Day 1?

[Unsight]

Vote: Sevis

.

I didn't like his play yesterday. And I've looked more at him, and he's still scummy. And though Vi being town doesn't make Sevis scum, it doesn't hurt his case, as Vi often has good reads. And it's not like he's not SCUMMY.

I think that we ought to leave MS for some other time. But I won't be upset with a lynch on him.

If you "won't be upset with a lynch on him" then why should we leave him for another time?

[Unsight]

ffs guys. SGRaaize is at L-2(if animorpherv's vote counted). I suggest some of you unvote. This wagon is super scummy.

IMO, if nhammen is lying, he's guaranteed dead tomorrow.
Unvote:Timeater

How so?

Pretty clear to me--Vote:SGRaizze

What's clear to you?

vote: Dr. Robotnik

. Also up for an nhammen or MS lynch.

Why are you "up for an nhammen or MS lynch?"

What makes Dr. Robotnik your lynch of choice?

[Unsight]

Because a Sevis lynch is

better

right now, IMO.

If he's such a

better

lynch then shouldn't you be pushing it harder than with a tiny 3 line post? It seems more like you're just avoiding the wagons if that's all you're going to say about it.

[Unsight]

ughhh... SO MUCH POSTING!!!!!

@mod, I think your positng requirements are too much. I cna't keep up, so I need to request replacement as well

/goodbye

Posting once every 48 hours is too much? LOL

Some of us actually read the 23+ posts this thread gets daily to do things like scum hunt.

[Unsight]

I'm wary of how nhammen left the Socrates wagon. That was a little too easy. The wagon was fine for nhammen until SGR is replaced by someone who actually talks back. Next thing we see is nhammen shaking his hand and wandering away.

I'm also wondering what the odds of both nhammen and Socrates being on the same scum team are right now. nhammen jumps on the wagon and jumps off at the first available point. If nhammen flips scum down the line, it looks good for Socrates that nhammen was pushing for his lynch. If Socrates gets lynched, flipping scum makes nhammen look good on some level for having started the wagon today. This just seems like a golden situation to make them both look good if the other gets lynched.

[Unsight]

Guys, the NK could easily be an attempt to frame Sevis, though I admit he's pretty scummy.

I would say MS is probably town because of the quick bandwagon but in a 2-faction game who knows?

However SSBF is looking mighty scummy again, trying to push the lynch without giving any real good reasons.

Vote: SSBF

. Why you guys made me change my vote D1, I will never know.

Considering how bandwagon happy you were with your vote yesterday, it's a bit odd to see you avoiding both the major wagons today.

What read do you get on MS from his ISO?

What are your thoughts on SGR from his ISO?

And who made your change your vote on Day 1?

Considering how bandwagon happy you were with your vote yesterday, it's a bit odd to see you avoiding both the major wagons today.

I don't follow much.
1. I started the SSBF wagon
2. I started the nhammen wagon
3. I had already expressed suspicion of Chrono prior to my vote on him

I'm not a sheep. If you haven't figured this out by now then you're not paying attention.

Just noticed, but Parama never returned to answer the rest of my questions. Way to dodge Parama.

FoS: Parama

[Unsight]

Because a Sevis lynch is

better

right now, IMO.

If he's such a

better

lynch then shouldn't you be pushing it harder than with a tiny 3 line post? It seems more like you're just avoiding the wagons if that's all you're going to say about it.

Still waiting for Pom to answer this one.

[Unsight]

I'm wary of how nhammen left the Socrates wagon. That was a little too easy. The wagon was fine for nhammen until SGR is replaced by someone who actually talks back. Next thing we see is nhammen shaking his hand and wandering away.

I'm also wondering what the odds of both nhammen and Socrates being on the same scum team are right now. nhammen jumps on the wagon and jumps off at the first available point. If nhammen flips scum down the line, it looks good for Socrates that nhammen was pushing for his lynch. If Socrates gets lynched, flipping scum makes nhammen look good on some level for having started the wagon today. This just seems like a golden situation to make them both look good if the other gets lynched.

I'd like you to do something other than post just enough to justify your current position.

I want your thoughts on these three players:

SerialClergyman
Foilist
Timeater

I want more than "Town" or "Scum". Everything good and bad that you can think of from all three of these players.

SerialClergyman - Good at supporting wagons, bad at starting/finding them. I like his observations and would have a town read on him if not for the nagging feeling that he's doing more tunneling than scumhunting at times.

foilist13 - Put up or shut up style player. I like these kind of players because they typically are a lot of fun to play with. That said, foilist13... lacks teeth. Maybe it was early suspicion on him yesterday as part of the rolefishing nhammen called out, but it feels like someone with his style would be on the offensive more than he is.

Speaking of the rolefishing, I still think it's horrendously bad that Parama was able to tell me that that one post foilist13 I quoted was just "rhetorical questioning" and not blatant rolefishing. I think there's a connection in there somewhere but Parama's pushing of his lynch today just makes it weird. Both strike me as more scummy than towny though.

Timeater - He's a porcupine. You poke him, he pokes you. The reactions to his posts are interesting. It seems some people are more interested in FoS'ing or voting a convenient target than actually asking questions (ie scum hunting). He's a neutral read, but his posts have been more useful than people realize.

[Unsight]

Unsight, I didn't see your questions in the first place.

First: I didn't ISO MS and I don't plan on it.
Second: I didn't ISO SGR and I don't plan on it.
Third: Chrono was on my scumlist, the wagons for the more obvious scum just never picked up.

This is a lie.

Here is my post:

Guys, the NK could easily be an attempt to frame Sevis, though I admit he's pretty scummy.

I would say MS is probably town because of the quick bandwagon but in a 2-faction game who knows?

However SSBF is looking mighty scummy again, trying to push the lynch without giving any real good reasons.

Vote: SSBF

. Why you guys made me change my vote D1, I will never know.

Considering how bandwagon happy you were with your vote yesterday, it's a bit odd to see you avoiding both the major wagons today.

What read do you get on MS from his ISO?

What are your thoughts on SGR from his ISO?

And who made your change your vote on Day 1?

You quoted this post here:

Considering how bandwagon happy you were with your vote yesterday, it's a bit odd to see you avoiding both the major wagons today.

I don't follow much.
1. I started the SSBF wagon
2. I started the nhammen wagon
3. I had already expressed suspicion of Chrono prior to my vote on him

I'm not a sheep. If you haven't figured this out by now then you're not paying attention.

Do you see what's missing here? The questions.

You saw them and you deleted them before you responded. There is no "I didn't see your questions" because you clearly did.

vote: Parama

[Unsight]

No, I didn't see them. I quoted the same post, so what? I am a selective reader. And I answered them now. Your argument is completely ridiculous.

Really, how could you know what I do or don't read? <_<

This is pretty simple.

Either you're dodging questions and lying about it, which is scummy. Or you're very selectively reading posts which implies you're more interested in creating scum than finding scum, which is even scummier.

[Unsight]

If I was dodging questions, why did I answer them as soon I realized they existed?
I am somewhat selective focusing on certain parts of posts over others, yes. The standout parts of a post that make someone look scummier or townier, or the most relevant parts. I completely missed your questions party because they didn't stand out and

I don't know if I even realized they were directed at me.

Regardless, your argument is incredibly stupid, and I don't see how anyone could agree with it. Which is good because nobody seems to be doing so, so I'm assuming they see its weakness as well.

So, now you're saying it's not that you didn't see them but that you didn't realize they were directed at you?

[Unsight]

*** Can we play the list your top three suspects game? ***

Code: Select all

1. Parama
2. Socrates
3. Pomegranate

[Unsight]

@SSBF

Are you any closer to finding scum with those 3 walls of text or were you just cluttering the thread to make it harder for the rest of us?

[Unsight]

Wgere

is

Sevis? According to his iso, he hasn't posted since the 25th of May. Huh?

Pom... you're not scum hunting, you haven't made a case explaining why Sevis is a better lynch, and it's pretty obvious that you're tunneling on him since if you had read the thread (and not just his ISO), you'd have seen the replacement notice.

vote: Pomegranate

[Unsight]

@Unsight: I believe, but I am not SSBF so I don't know, that he is trying to ensure that the monks/masons are not overlooked simply because of their roles, and is therefore posting player analysis on each of them. I'm not sure how useful this is at the moment, and to my best approximation, they each have a 1/24 chance of being scum, though that is not taking into account the fact that vezopiraka is confirmed.

I can see what you're saying about pomegranate, but is that really the best lynch for today?

I don't know what the "best lynch" for today is but any lynch that ends with dead scum is fine with me.

As for Pom, do you think it's a good idea to let her slide through all of Day 2 doing exactly nothing?

[Unsight]

@SSBF - How does a "I think these people are town" list help the town?

@Midnight's Sorrow - Hi.

unvote. vote: Midnight's Sorrow

@LMP - Reread my ISO and reread SSBF's comments at the beginning of Day 2. 1 + 1 = ?

[Unsight]

Unsight - Did you see all the talk about MS's meta? Or are you just voting him in spite of that?

No, I don't remember reading anything about that. Link me to what you're talking about. Also, I'm voting him because he's scummy as hell and seems to think because we're talking about other people that he's off the hook.

[Unsight]

Socrates <3's Midnight Sorrow

Nachomamma <3's nhammen

Spyrex and Faraday <3 lots of people

I agree with the scum lists I keep seeing... mostly. Parama needs to be on the must-die list but the rest is fine with me.

I'm not fully attached to my Midnight's Sorrow wagon. Actually, I just wanted to see Socrates hug MS some more. There's something fishy going on there and it's all explainable by Socrates being scum.

I would join the Dr. Robotnik wagon, but seeing Nacho go all-out against such an easy (if scummy) target without mentioning the other wagons rubs me the wrong way. Like the magician who produces flowers with one hand and signals his partner to pick your pocket with his other. I wanna hear Nacho's thoughts on the people that he hasn't said much about--Midnight's Sorrow, Socrates, and... Lowell.

[Unsight]

Parama needs to be on the must-die list but the rest is fine with me.

This is why you're a brick wall.

Posting for the sake of posting is uncool.

[Unsight]

Midnight's Sorrow: I feel like Midnight's Sorrow hasn't been the most exceptional of town players, but I also haven't seen a good case against him. Yes, he hasn't really pushed the game forward in any significant way, but he's done more than plenty of people in this game. Overall, I'm leaning town.

Socrates: SGR was scummy as hell to me, but Socrates is not. He also has an interesting relationship with nhammenscum... The jury's still out on this one.

Lowell: Not much to say about Lowell. Hell, I didn't even know he was in the game... Which, in most instances, would point to scum, but this is Lowell we're talking about....

I would join the Dr. Robotnik wagon, but seeing Nacho go all-out against such an easy (if scummy) target without mentioning the other wagons rubs me the wrong way.

I believe that if Dr. Robotnik was town, then he would've been lynched on Day 1. People (including Vi) attempted to smash through wagons on him, and failed. If he were town, I'm sure that both scumteams would've jumped on that opportunity and managed to bring enough town to their side for a lynch...

What do you see as the relationship between Socrates and nhammen?

And why would Robotnik's wagon not exploding be a tell? There wasn't a shortage of wagons yesterday.

[Unsight]

@Timeater, Unsight, Spyrex, Leafsnail, SerialClergyman, Dry-fit, Dr. Robotnik, Faraday, Lowell:

What use are your votes serving right now? Do you believe that you are pushing your suspects as much as you should be? Do you believe that your wagon has a high chance of going through today? Do you think that having as many competing bandwagons we have right now is good for town?

My vote is on scum and I'm happy to keep it there. Both Socrates and Midnight's Sorrow are far more likely to be scum than Dr. Robotnik or Sevis/Shrinehme.

The fact that that Midnight's Sorrow, Socrates, and nhammen are all on the Sevis/Shrine wagon is a mountain of bad juju. foilist13's wagon jump is just as bad. I have zero intention of joining a wagon with scummiest people in the game. That just won't have a happy ending.

And we already did push Midnight's Sorrow. The result was practically zero scum hunting and lots of "lol wut" type posts. That's not the "oh let's go look elsewhere" signal, that's the "DIE SCUM DIE" signal.

And yeah, I love competing wagons... just not when the biggest ones aren't the people I most want to see lynched.

[Unsight]

SSBF being neutral on me is kind of weird. He gave me Town vibes though, so I dunno.

Actually, I have a slightly scummy read on you. Just that I don't consider you lynch worthy for the moment.

My vote is on scum and I'm happy to keep it there. Both Socrates and Midnight's Sorrow are far more likely to be scum than Dr. Robotnik or Sevis/Shrinehme.

Didn't you say earlier you weren't completely satisfied with starting the Midnight's Sorrow bandwagon?

And we already did push Midnight's Sorrow. The result was practically zero scum hunting and lots of "lol wut" type posts. That's not the "oh let's go look elsewhere" signal, that's the "DIE SCUM DIE" signal.

Basically sums up what I think we got from Midnight's Sorrow. It also created a huge mess for town to clean up (As if finding scum wasn't challenging enough). How do we balance cleaning up the mess and finding scum is the question.

"Didn't you say earlier you weren't completely satisfied with starting the Midnight's Sorrow bandwagon?"

My satisfaction with the Midnight's Sorrow wagon has been directly proportional to the number of posts he's made today.


"How do we balance cleaning up the mess and finding scum is the question."

By lynching them.

[Unsight]

Woo, forums are back. Parama and Spyrex are looking nicely scummy for the whole "hurry up and vote" stuff.

I also seem to recall SSBF talking about how shorter days are bad for the town (was that this game?) so it's downright scummy to see him going "Woohoo shorter deadlines!"

[Unsight]

@Leafsnail: IMO, Midnight's Sorrow is one of the scummiest people in the game. His play has been ridiculously scummy.

If he's so scummy then why did you spend the last half a dozen pages voting Dr. Robotnik?

Ok, well, since Midnight's Sorrow must be modconfirmed as town to everyone else in the game, can I resuggest lynching foilist tomorrow?

I believe the only sensible response to this is "BWUH!?"

[Unsight]

@Leafsnail - I saw what you did there.

@MS - Nice misrep.

I'm gonna take some time and reread what I can of Day 1 and 2. Until I have new information to work off, I'm gonna continue pushing the non-stupid wagons of Day 2--Midnight's Sorrow and Socrates.

VOTE: Midnight's Sorrow

[Unsight]

@MS - Nice misrep.

Kindly point me to where exactly, instead of just saying so and that be it~

Over here:

Unsight is scum for KNOWING it would be a mislynch,and therefore not have any part of it.

Nice try leaf~

I didn't avoid the Sevis/Shrine wagon because I "knew" it would be a mislynch. I avoided it for reasons I mentioned on Day 2:

@Timeater, Unsight, Spyrex, Leafsnail, SerialClergyman, Dry-fit, Dr. Robotnik, Faraday, Lowell:

What use are your votes serving right now? Do you believe that you are pushing your suspects as much as you should be? Do you believe that your wagon has a high chance of going through today? Do you think that having as many competing bandwagons we have right now is good for town?

My vote is on scum and I'm happy to keep it there. Both Socrates and Midnight's Sorrow are far more likely to be scum than Dr. Robotnik or Sevis/Shrinehme.

The fact that that Midnight's Sorrow, Socrates, and nhammen are all on the Sevis/Shrine wagon is a mountain of bad juju. foilist13's wagon jump is just as bad. I have zero intention of joining a wagon with scummiest people in the game. That just won't have a happy ending.

And we already did push Midnight's Sorrow. The result was practically zero scum hunting and lots of "lol wut" type posts. That's not the "oh let's go look elsewhere" signal, that's the "DIE SCUM DIE" signal.

And yeah, I love competing wagons... just not when the biggest ones aren't the people I most want to see lynched.

[Unsight]

@Nikanor

"I'm voting for Unsight because he's voting for MS over Socrates, when there was concrete evidence to suggest that Socrates was scum over MS. Whether Socrates is scum or not, that's just scummy."

"No, I'm not. The evidence against Socrates is no longer concrete with Nacho's claim. It is now circumstantial evidence. I'm saying that the evidence before WAS concrete, and that Unsight is scummy for not following that evidence.
And before you say it, I know that there were other people who voted for MS before Unsight did. The difference is that Socrates is listed as one of Unsight's suspects, unlike myself and others who prefer the other wagons."

The logical chain of "nhammen said he blocked Socrates" and "nhammen just flipped town roleblocker" therefore "Socrates is confirmed to have been roleblocked on a night missing a scum kill" didn't click for me last night.

I don't think Nacho's vig claim invalidates that logic train.


@Parama

"...
Holy crap. I think I get it. Unsight KNEW the evidence was fake and so he didn't join the Socrates wagon. The only ones who would KNOW for certain than Socrates wasn't scum would be the scumteam that was blocked N1. Am I getting it right?
unvote
God, now I don't know what to think."

That theory hinges on my now ignoring "evidence" that you and Nikanor are now trying strongly paint as "circumstantial" and "fake." I've been suspicious of Socrates since I ISO'd his slot's previous player (SGR) on Day 2 in response to a comment made by Faraday. It wasn't nhammen's dubious Day 2 claim of a roleblock that made me suspicious of the slot in the first place but now nhammen's town flip proving his roleblock claim is the nail in his coffin as far as I'm concerned.

UNVOTE: Midnight's Sorrow
VOTE: Socrates

The question isn't why I didn't put 2+2 together yesterday; for that you can thank a replacement-happy mod's rules making post on a day with 4 hours of sleep to avoid the dreaded 48 hour prod. The question is why Nikanor is hot to start a non-Socrates/non-MS wagon.

[Unsight]

@ Parama

"Unsight, the roleblock was confirmed as soon as day started. If that was the nail in the coffin, you should've voted Socrates immediately. And you didn't. When evidence came to light that lessened Socrates' chance of being roleblocked scum, though, you switch to him immediately? After being called out for not voting him? Unsight just snapped under pressure methinks. vote: Unsight"

I explained before the part of my post you quoted and after the part of my post you quoted. You selectively left those out. Why is that?


@Nikanor

"Are you telling me that you forgot the main point against Socrates, yet still put him second on your suspicion list?
You also voted for SGR/Socrates here with the sole reason being the roleblock on Socrates. You forgot about that?"

It was never "the main point" to me because while nhammen was alive because his alignment was questionable and whether he even roleblocked someone was questionable. SGR's non-contributions were the main point which I made light of in my response to Faraday and why I moved my vote around to places I believed it could do more good when Socrates began posting.

"I have never used the word "fake." And if you know the definition of circumstantial evidence, you'll agree that this fits the category. Where's Netopalis when you need him?"

Parama used the word "fake" and you used the word "circumstantial."

[Unsight]

@vezo

"Everyone lynch unsight and I promise the socrates wagon will be put out tomorrow."

My flipping town ruins your plan.

[Unsight]

Okay so:
foilist
Unsight
Pome

are a scumteam IMO
Make perfect sense IMO, someone pointed out the foilist/Unsight link
And fun times from ISOs:

I can see what you're saying about pomegranate, but is that really the best lynch for today?

RE: Pomegranite: Only time's I've played with pomegranite she completely ignored D1, and tended to lurk D2. This is a common pattern with her, which unfortunately means we have no content or meta leaning either way. This is distinctly anti-town, but not necessarily scummy.

(lolmeta)
Unsight pushed a little on foilist too but it seemed halfhearted in comparison to his usual style of pushing a case - and Unsight has stopped mentioning Pome since his late D2 vote.

Hey look they're all linked and they're all scummy separately

My flipping town ruins your scum team theory too.

I haven't pushed foilist13 much because he's way lower on the scumdar than the people I have been pushing (Socrates, Midnight's Sorrow,

you

). As for Pom, did you not read my interaction with her? The whole point of my vote and my listing her as a suspect was to get Pom to actually start doing stuff and it worked. Of course I stopped mentioning her when she actually started playing again because my vote had served its purpose.

[Unsight]

What about his iso convinced you to vote for Unsight, Socrates?

First of all, his vote on me stunk. The fact that the way Nhammen's block on me looked bad "didn't click with him" until just now even though it has been discussed at great length in this thread since the start of day 2? Bullshit.

An Iso of his day 1 play contains very little examples of scumhunting as far as I am concerned, and (I believe I said something similar when I looked at him when I first entered the game) I get the distinct impression that he had been doing just enough to justify his position.

Also, I am distincly remembering Unsights push on Parama around the time that the Foilist wagon started to gain steam. Now both Foilist and Unsight have hopped on my wagon with odd timing. to repeat myself: I think the scum are afraid that their mislynch is slipping away from them, which is why some people have started to pile on

after

evidence in my favor comes out.

"First of all, his vote on me stunk. "

Wah. OMGUS.

"The fact that the way Nhammen's block on me looked bad "didn't click with him" until just now even though it has been discussed at great length in this thread since the start of day 2? Bullshit."

Discussion on day 2 was in the context of not knowing whether nhammen was town or scum or even whether he was actually a roleblocker. Sudden realization of what that means tends to be delayed when posting with 4 hours of sleep.

"An Iso of his day 1 play contains very little examples of scumhunting as far as I am concerned"

How convenient that you find my Day 1 play lacking scumhunting but it's only once there are bandwagons on the two of us on Day 3 that you decide to mention it. You mention me a whopping once on Day 2 and never brought any of this up. You also never responded when I answered your one question to me. Any "lack of scumhunting" you suddenly see is a construct based on your desire to see someone other than yourself lynched.

"Also, I am distincly remembering Unsights push on Parama around the time that the Foilist wagon started to gain steam. Now both Foilist and Unsight have hopped on my wagon with odd timing. to repeat myself: I think the scum are afraid that their mislynch is slipping away from them, which is why some people have started to pile on

after

evidence in my favor comes out."

Evidence in your favor? nhammen whose alignment and role were questionable yesterday is now dead and revealed to be a pro-town roleblocker who said he blocked you on Night 1 (when there was only 1 scum kill). That's not evidence in your favor, that's about the best evidence we could ask for short of some sort of investigation that you're scum.

[Unsight]

"How many people still have MS high on their scum list?"

I do.

On Day 2, I've believed for a while now that Midnight's Sorrow is scum from his own scummy play as well as the interactions between him and Parama. So far Parama has taken a couple opportunities to list Midnight's Sorrow as a suspect yet refused to say why, not see understand the case on someone he himself suspects, and apparently really didn't like my vote. Unfortunately for Parama, his attempts to buddy with me have and continue to fail--which is why Parama is now on my wagon after 2 full days of calling me things like a "brick wall" and "dumb town."

The extent of Parama and Midnight's Sorrow's interaction is a love/hate scumbuddy relationship where Parama wants to look good if the wagon happens, but not actually push the wagon himself.

That's why I was still pushing Midnight Sorrow's lynch at the end of yesterday and why my first vote today was Midnight's Sorrow. I'm 99% sure that if Midnight's Sorrow or Parama flips scum, the other will also flip scum. And the only reason I'm not still on Midnight's Sorrow's wagon is that Socrates is basically guaranteed scum IMO as of nhammen's flip. Regardless of the lynch order, I'm fairly certain that's three scum nailed right there.

[Unsight]

the unsight case is on wherein some people think Unsight know's too much (i.e. seems to be sure soc will flip town) thus she'd be from the scumgroup with the missing kill? is that right or am I missing something (like is that a fair part of the case?)

Nikanor's Vote + Nikanor's Explanation / Vezo's vote / Parama's Vote / Socrates' Vote / Midnight's Sorrow's Vote

Nikanor took my vote on Midnight's Sorrow to mean that I thought Socrates was innocent and three people I suspect/have voted immediately went "ZOMG, an Unsight wagon! Get her!" and boarded it. It is/was a terribad wagon, but it's nice to see so many scum in one place... especially Parama who has finally dropped the pretense of buddying with me.

[Unsight]

It's unbelievable how unlynchable socrates is. He's officially my hero.

Who do you think is keeping him from being lynched?

[Unsight]

I don't see Unsight scum so much and we need foilist dead today.

Midnight's Sorrow is also acceptable.

So basically that's an "anyone but Socrates is okay with you" post?

[Unsight]

Battle Mage and Unsight didn't post in the past 48 hours and will be prodded.

I announce V/LA for this one game for every weekend from now on. I don't want to be replaced because I actually do stuff on the weekends.

[Unsight]

Leafsnail you missed this post then

You can repeat that post as much as you like but you're still wrong and you're still scum for your association with Midnight's Sorrow which I explain here:

"How many people still have MS high on their scum list?"

I do.

On Day 2, I've believed for a while now that Midnight's Sorrow is scum from his own scummy play as well as the interactions between him and Parama. So far Parama has taken a couple opportunities to list Midnight's Sorrow as a suspect yet refused to say why, not see understand the case on someone he himself suspects, and apparently really didn't like my vote. Unfortunately for Parama, his attempts to buddy with me have and continue to fail--which is why Parama is now on my wagon after 2 full days of calling me things like a "brick wall" and "dumb town."

The extent of Parama and Midnight's Sorrow's interaction is a love/hate scumbuddy relationship where Parama wants to look good if the wagon happens, but not actually push the wagon himself.

That's why I was still pushing Midnight Sorrow's lynch at the end of yesterday and why my first vote today was Midnight's Sorrow. I'm 99% sure that if Midnight's Sorrow or Parama flips scum, the other will also flip scum. And the only reason I'm not still on Midnight's Sorrow's wagon is that Socrates is basically guaranteed scum IMO as of nhammen's flip. Regardless of the lynch order, I'm fairly certain that's three scum nailed right there.

[Unsight]

Sorry been like forgetting about this game and stuff.

I don't object to the Socrates wagon, but my gut is tingling now despite my head saying lynch lynch lynch. It feels like it's going to be a mislynch.

You were more active in both Mafia 110 and Mini 939. What's going on?

Who are your top 3 suspects and why?

[Unsight]

Prod avoidance. Nothing will happen until we lynch soc.

Right now the most interesting thing to notice are the people pushing other wagons more strongly as the day goes on. I very much consider that something "happening" and it makes Socrates' flip all the more important.

[Unsight]

I don't know what else to say to this whole wagon+hammer I missed other than I hope foilist flips scum.

[Unsight]

Midnight's Sorrow and Parama are both scum on the same team as I said here:

"How many people still have MS high on their scum list?"

I do.

On Day 2, I've believed for a while now that Midnight's Sorrow is scum from his own scummy play as well as the interactions between him and Parama. So far Parama has taken a couple opportunities to list Midnight's Sorrow as a suspect yet refused to say why, not see understand the case on someone he himself suspects, and apparently really didn't like my vote. Unfortunately for Parama, his attempts to buddy with me have and continue to fail--which is why Parama is now on my wagon after 2 full days of calling me things like a "brick wall" and "dumb town."

The extent of Parama and Midnight's Sorrow's interaction is a love/hate scumbuddy relationship where Parama wants to look good if the wagon happens, but not actually push the wagon himself.

That's why I was still pushing Midnight Sorrow's lynch at the end of yesterday and why my first vote today was Midnight's Sorrow. I'm 99% sure that if Midnight's Sorrow or Parama flips scum, the other will also flip scum. And the only reason I'm not still on Midnight's Sorrow's wagon is that Socrates is basically guaranteed scum IMO as of nhammen's flip. Regardless of the lynch order, I'm fairly certain that's three scum nailed right there.

VOTE: Midnight's Sorrow

Now I'm off to reread foilist13.

[Unsight]

BTW I already disproved your supposed "scumlinks", Unsight.

Die scum die.

Also, Rich.
Stop talking.
Read the thread. The whole damn thing.
Do not post until you have done this.

Your "disproval" is one big "nuh uh."

[Unsight]

Claim:

Vanilla Townsfolk

My PM is identical to the one on page 1. The "l" in Michel's signature lines up with the "t" in second "the" in the last sentence. Anyone else with at VT PM can confirm that.

My scum list is: Midnight's Sorrow, Parama, Pomegranate, Super Smash Bros. Fan
My town list is: Nacho, vezo, BlazezRb

Good luck town.