NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[SerialClergyman]

Hey kids. Last time I played a MSH game was a fun mayor mafia, so lets keep up the record of MSH games rocking the kasbah

[SerialClergyman]

Vote unsight

I am so not even close to getting the SSBF hate. The arguments about his system being an overcorrection would be awesome if it wasn't for the fact that he's applying this system to all his new games and it's not a terrible system at all, at least it's open. And given it's a cut and paste job, that makes that argument about hidden threats to those in the scummy area even more stupid than it already was (presumably if he was town there WOULD be a threat, he'd want to vote you ><)

I doubt Parama is scum though. It reminds me very much of our last game when Hoopla and I hydrad and they lynched someone in about 4 pages.

Now - back to my vote. Unsight has some ungly posts. (that was a typo but I left it because ungly is a cool word.)
First content post is a joining of the SSBF wagon with overjustification:

We should be lynching SSBF D1 anyways, I don't see why it's important.

If you quick hammer me, you run a higher risk of killing a townie.

Let's run Day 1 ful or at least almost full course before deciding on the list.

I read the colored as: "Don't lynch me, I

might

be town."

vote: SSBF

Then second post is calling out Vi for colouring parts of his posts.

Why did you make some text blue and some text purple? It seems like you're trying to draw more attention to your post than might have gotten otherwise.

So that's a lame attack, and the first one is a covering your arse bandwagon vote - so already I'd be thinking about a vote, except it is also flamingly contradictory - presumably the 2nd post here is meant to suggest that colouring one's post in an attempt to get them noticed is somehow suspicious behaviour but that's EXACTLY WHAT YOU JUST DID in your first content post.

People who scumhunt themselves are awesome. Gogo Unsight wagon.

Timeeater gets a special mention for scummy 121 as well.

[SerialClergyman]

I'd be surprised if Parama AND SSBF are both town.

I'd be surprised if they weren't. What about the scenario of 'overeager, inexperienced town gets pounced on early by townie with a read' is unlikely to you?

[SerialClergyman]

The overjustification is because everyone was jumping on the wagon, we all get why. But you had to find a little reason, find a specific point that you could rely on in case public opinion turns.

Well, rather than presume, I'll ask - why did you mention Vi's use of colour?

My opinion on that post is that almost all of it fits perfectly with my opinion of SSBF at the moment. But that last line is utterly bizarre, I'll give you that.

[SerialClergyman]

Vote leafsnail

Ugh, Serial's pet hate scummy comment. Parama is reaching on page 9 before there's any real concrete information? Seriously? Maybe he should just chilll in the background and make comments like 'blah is reaching'.

Obviously he is, it's D1, noone knows anything yet so he's generating content and attacking people on whatever tells he can squeeze out.

And having said THAT, he isn't even reaching that hard. He's given us quotes, explained his motivations (analysing those who join and the reactions etc).

Earned my vote.

[SerialClergyman]

I wish the masons had let the wagon grow a little before they claimed, it wasn't really in lynch territory. Still, never mind, them claiming isn't a bad thing, having 3 essentially confirmed townies makes for difficult NKs.

Vi and I disagree on reasons to vote leafsnail but we're both doing it anyway, I actually think that's a good sign. He is voting a mason, as well, if anyone's taking note.

Of those voting the claimed masons,

Sevis, Leafsnail are on Daniel, askbob and the goat are on vezo (and that's AFTER askbob had his little spat about masons claiming). Wouldn't be surprised in the least to see scum in there.

I'm also a little disturbed by Pom willing to place her vote on a very sketchy softclaim from vezo, and actively refuse further claiming. I don't know why she would do that as town. Obviously if someone has role-based info that another player is town D1 and they softclaim it, they will almost certainly be NKed that night. So you might as well hard claim and then we can decide on the merits of the info. To jump right in on the softest hint of a claim and excuse yourself from any hunting earns Pom the coveted 2nd most scummy.

[SerialClergyman]

Ah, interesting. In that case I wouldn't be surprised if there were non-wolf masons as well.

The question is whether we'll find scum in the groups.

I think given they're less likely to be scum (can only be half of possible scum) it's probably better to leave them for the time being.

[SerialClergyman]

I think people are massively overreacting to the masons inter-voting. The fact is thy aren't confirmed town and so a vote on them is reasonable. You just have to be aware you've only got 50% of the chance you'd have on anyone else. I don't recommend a mason lynch, but if one of them thinks his partner is scum, why shouldn't he vote him?

[SerialClergyman]

foilest is probably town, although totally wasting his efforts on someone who won't get lynched today. Vi is probably town, he's just prickly enough to convince me he's goign through his standard town opening. Super smash and Parama remain town.

I don't get this:

Outside of SSBF, I have a pretty decent scum read on C-pie. The whole "So a mason could also be a cop" thing from 260 reads to me like he's trying to direct scum to shoot the masons. Seems unnecessary for obvious reasons and I can't think of a pro-town reason to even go there the way he did.

What I'm struggling with is the pro-scum reason to do that. Scum can daytalk in this game, so what on Earth would be the point of publicly trying to convince your scummates to attack the masons? Unless you mean he was tryign to convince the OTHER scum group.

Unsight's posts make me twitch. I'd be happy with that lynch.

Yo nhammen - where you at?

[SerialClergyman]

So it's a deep south game - have you played one before? Did you check out how they work?

[SerialClergyman]

WOW.

I just looked and I was totally confusing this game with another one. My bad. Sigh.

I have no idea whether scum can daytalk or not, but I can understand that looks badly like a slip. Zzzzzz.

[SerialClergyman]

I'm in a game with Incognito playing deep south mafia with a lot of the player base. I got confused between games. Scum must be allowed to daytalk in DS cos there's no night, but in this game we don't know whether scum can or can't daytalk.

So I just got the games confused, unfortunately.

[SerialClergyman]

Where did you see that? It's not in the first post..

[SerialClergyman]

Oh never mind, yep, the mod said it earlier.

Ok - well, then my comment specifically isn't coming from scum, because it's wrong, they can't night talk. (Unless it's some weird deliberate double-WIFOM).

Of course, I was talking about another game entirely, so it shouldn't be a town slip either but if anyone wants to view it like that then 10 points to you.

[SerialClergyman]

I am so into the nhammen wagon.

1) He uses the old rolefishing accusation style (PYP1 kids??)
2) he's been awful sneaky quiet, hence me calling him out last post.
3) Parama actually rocked the kasbah in his post and is almost certainly town.

unvote, vote nhammen

[SerialClergyman]

This is exactly why nhammen's scum. The defence is 'But he WAS rolefishing' rather than 'But he is likely to be scum'. I can't tell you how many times scum are the first to overreact to anything that looks like rolefishing (devotress in PYP1, Percy and Baltar in Amished mafia, roflcopter and Yossarian in /inv 4 - these are all in my wiki if you want to check). It's because if they're ever questioned about their suspicions, they don't have to make a case about that person being scum, or show their suspicions - they just need to say 'ROLEFISHING IS BAD, THAT POST IS ROLEFISHING'.

I don't think that nhammen actually believes foilest and chrono are scum because they are rolefishing. Look at his posts - he's telling them to STOP rolefishing, rather than telling the town that he believes he's caught scum.

AND it comes after a suspiciously long absence without him saying much.

[SerialClergyman]

Holy crap you are going to great lengths to defend this! Maybe I need to change my read of you...

Lol! Epic threat..

My vote totally stays.

(Note he's still saying IT WAS FISHING not THEY ARE SCUM)

[SerialClergyman]

Ooh, ooh, nhammen and c-pie are so partners. Check out the bolded.

The way he is pushing this rolefishing just strikes me as scummy,

while chrono's doesn't.

I've explained as best I can.

@Chrono 379: Not you too! DO NOT ROLEFISH!

@Chrono 382: STOP ROLEFISHING

FOS: Chrono

[SerialClergyman]

a) I love blatant gross assumptions about people's town status.

b) It was more Parama rocked the kasbah (and based on previous reads i think he's town so that leads me to think his case is particularly trustworthy at this point in time.)

c) You're almost certainly town here, because although I think you're drastically wrong both on Parama and on nhammen, I can't see any scum so blatantly standing up to the wave of opinion against nhammen. So you know, good on you for that.

[SerialClergyman]

Interesting finds, both nhammen and Parama. Now that I re-read foilist's posts, he does seem to be rolefishing quite a bit: previously, I took this for him just trying to make sense of the game. I still don't get the feeling that he's scum, but I'm not too sure just yet.

Vezo really is contributing far less to the game than he could be, hinting at the role without any clarification only helps scum, as far as I can see.

The speed with which Chronopie jumped on the nhammen wagon does surprise me -- he seems to be hoping to put the focus away from him and thus be forgotten. This doesn't look like very pro-town play to me. I also have to agree that his attempts at rolefishing would cause more harm if they were successful (I see LMP's role and knowledge to currently be of more importance than vezo's).

FOS: Chronopie

Unvote; Vote: nhammen

Not only do you never mention anything about whether the nhammen wagon is

good

, you actually

compliment and agree with him

in the bolded.
Not a particularly intuitive way to put yourself ninth on the wagon... Especially since if you didn't know your vote was horrible, you didn't do it on purpose like someone fishing for reactions/pressure would... which means that you intended to lynch nhammen with this post as reasoning.

Unvote: nhammen

Vote: Sevis

(L-12)

I'm fine with assuming nhammen-Town for the time being.

What?

I don't understand how you could do this reversal when you know there are two mafia groups.

And I don't understand how that makes you fine assuming nhammen town.

This whole post is pretty bizarre.

[SerialClergyman]

Ah - I thought that your reversal was based on Servis' scummy entering onto the wagon. I was pointing out that the other scum group would have every reason to lynch him without caring so much about the reasons, and just because someone scummy jumped on his wagon, that doesn't make him town because he's quite possibly the OTHER scumgroup to Servis.

I couldn't disagree more about the AtE though. I think he's caught scum, pure and simple.

[SerialClergyman]

Yep - confusion sorted.

Now we just need to unconfuse your emotional attachment to the monkey

[SerialClergyman]

I would hammer him.

I've detailed why I think he's scum and I haven't seen him defend that accusation at all. I don't get why you think the person who places the hammer is auto-dead the next day, Midnight. a) You're too concerned over what happens to you personally when we should be trying to take out the scum and b) that's just not true, nobody looks at a 13 person wagon and goes hey, that last guy to get on, it's your fault.

Vi - nhammen is a good player doing his best not to get lynched. He got caught out trying to play below the radar and making safe attacks. Now he's getting wagoned, so he's doing what he can to appear protown. It's not like typing that up would have taken a giant effort. There's no outrage, save that he thinks the wagon HAS to be scum driven. He also modestlyy suggests that 3 scum members from each team are on his lynch, which is almost certainly rubbish.

I'm getting scum-WIFOM and scum-asssaving way more than I'm getting picked on townie who's desperately fighting to the last to help his team.

[SerialClergyman]

Vi = VI?

Here's the game.

I also had a PM conversation about it with him afterwards and I feel he's a solid player, definitely not a VI.

[SerialClergyman]

I've actually done it myself, back in EMerald mafia. I think you could argue that catchups are more boring for scum, because they're essentially faking the mental strain, so they turn to humour.

But to be honest, I'm not convinced it's that reliable a tell. We'd have to kill Spyrex all the time

Yep, nhammen our reads sucked that game, but you're lucid, reasonable, rational and you think a lot about the game. Everyone has bad reads from time to time (mine were awful, as you know) but certain fundamentals are important. And they're also lacking in this game.

[SerialClergyman]

Ok, everyone gets 1 'SPELL THAT OUT' post, so this is yours.

I was replying to Vi's point about humour in catchup posts, and saying that not only can I confirm seeing scum do it, I've donei t myself when I played scum in a previous game.

I then said that although I can confirm a bit of a pattern, I don't think that means we should rush out killing people who write humerous comments.

I then reply to nhammen's objection to me finding him a good player.

[SerialClergyman]

If we have 30 days of this I'll /wrists.

[SerialClergyman]

Wow, deliberately or not you totally missed the point of that statement.

The entire point was -

1) Lowell was trying to get more time for night talking.
2) Lowell is not a town-based role that can night talk (he is not a mason or a monk)
3) Lowell therefore is likely to be a scum-based role that can night talk.

Now that I've spelt that out for you, does your opinion on Vezo and his statement change?

[SerialClergyman]

Maybe because the crazy long deadlines + unwillingness to commit + strict activity rules is making this game a merry-go-round of suspicion without the faintest hint of an actual lynch happening.

Next big wagon on nhammen, foilest, chrono, servis, leafsnail or robotnik I'll ride all the way to a lynch. We need something concrete fast. I don't feel any better about my reads now than I did after 15 pages.

[SerialClergyman]

Thanks for your contribution. I'll add it to the pages and pages of wallposts you've made.

[SerialClergyman]

Woot, wagon on someone scummy.

True to my word:

unvote, vote Chronopie

[SerialClergyman]

I'm willing to bet nhammen is 10x more likely to be scum than SGRaize is.

Vote nhammen

I was disappointed his wagon disintergrated last time and I'll be happy to see it rise again this time.

What's more likely - nhammen blocks a nothing player who is so absent he's barely here and happens to get the 2/22 chance to block the scum member committing the kill

OR

nhammen is scum and is using the no kill to try to provide validity to his claim and getting a pretty easy mislynch and distract from the fact that he wasn't killed.

Never mind he's ignored the chances of any other power role causing any sort of no kill via protects or blocks (including the chance he himself was targetted but was doc protected or the like.) Why ignore that? He knows it's simply not true. Same deal with the possibility Vi was double targetted.

I think nhammen knows why the kill didn't work because his team, either purposefully or not, failed their kill, and he's taking advantage of the situation.

It's too unlikely (the scummy claimed power role manages to hit one of presumably 2 scum who are sending in kills), he's too confident in his push on SGRaize and the whole thing stinks.

I tell you now, people on that wagon are scummy, nhammen is scummy.

[SerialClergyman]

I just finished a game as scum where we claimed roleblocker in order to get soemone lynched and got Midnight's Sorrow mislynched on anothern ight

I don't plan on falling for my own scumtactics. The SGR wagon is filled with people who want an easy vote. A claimed block from someone suspicious enough to be forced to claim (and not be NKed) is not enough.

nhammen is scum and is either a roleblocker or has a roleblocker on his team. Almost certainly.

[SerialClergyman]

askbob and nhammen are both pushing a wagon together yet both think the other is very scummy, officially.

If only fate conspired to allow you to vote each other! Damn this roleblock and the tiny percentage is carries that's forcing your vote elsewhere.

[SerialClergyman]

Parama is town. This wagon and the walls accompanying it are stupid.

nhammen - this is the game:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

Am I missing something or did you just get all weasely up in here, SC?

Socrates - Yep, it was me and my team, and I was one of the main orchestraters. I'm not sure what you think is weasley about it. My point wasn't to make some kind of 'these two games must be the same', it was to show that there are really obvious symmetries between the two claims. Here is what I think.

a) nhammen is a scum roleblocker, or on a team with a scum roleblocker.
b) nhammen's team genuinely blocked your (Socrates) slot - PS this is the answer to nhammen's 'Why would I target SGRAize? Because you were genuinely looking for scum.
c) nhammen feels like if we lynch Socrates slot and find scum, then good times, he'll look great. If not - meh, he can blame any other reason of failed kill.

I would have liked to explain this a little earlier but I didn't exactly want to scream how likely a roleblocker claim was to be false when I was in an ongoing game with a scummate roleblocker claim.

As it turns out, I shouldn't have to because he's done this claimed result, and drawn a whole wagonful of hopeful scum.

I'm not falling for my own play. I'm not supporting a blocker and lynching based on his claimed results. Even if all the role info and choices and mechanics were all correct, and SGRAise genuinely was blocked last night, the chances are STILL very much in the favour that nhammen is scum.

Besides - in that Dirty South mafia I had the scum roleblocker target his scummate (me) one night specifically on the off chance that he'd be tracked by the claimed tracker and that would be the perfect way to distance us. I'm a sneaky-as scum player and I don't doubt you kids are the same. So even if I'd thought you were particularly town-aligned (I don't - I continue to think that nhammen is serious in his desire to lynch you after his block hoping he hit opposite scum) I still wouldn't be letting you off the hook.

I'm not quite in a mood to just lynch anyone yet, but I'm rapidly approaching it. I think we could cut abou 8 people and hit a decent amount of scum in the bunch, but I still want this nhammen stuff sorted. Then, preferably, the people on the SGRaise wagon to follow.

[SerialClergyman]

Parama is town. This wagon and the walls accompanying it are stupid.

nhammen - this is the game:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

Am I missing something or did you just get all weasely up in here, SC?

Socrates - Yep, it was me and my team, and I was one of the main orchestraters. I'm not sure what you think is weasley about it. My point wasn't to make some kind of 'these two games must be the same', it was to show that there are really obvious symmetries between the two claims. Here is what I think.

a) nhammen is a scum roleblocker, or on a team with a scum roleblocker.
b) nhammen's team genuinely blocked your (Socrates) slot - PS this is the answer to nhammen's 'Why would I target SGRAize? Because you were genuinely looking for scum.
c) nhammen feels like if we lynch Socrates slot and find scum, then good times, he'll look great. If not - meh, he can blame any other reason of failed kill.

I would have liked to explain this a little earlier but I didn't exactly want to scream how likely a roleblocker claim was to be false when I was in an ongoing game with a scummate roleblocker claim.

As it turns out, I shouldn't have to because he's done this claimed result, and drawn a whole wagonful of hopeful scum.

I'm not falling for my own play. I'm not supporting a blocker and lynching based on his claimed results. Even if all the role info and choices and mechanics were all correct, and SGRAise genuinely was blocked last night, the chances are STILL very much in the favour that nhammen is scum.

Besides - in that Dirty South mafia I had the scum roleblocker target his scummate (me) one night specifically on the off chance that he'd be tracked by the claimed tracker and that would be the perfect way to distance us. I'm a sneaky-as scum player and I don't doubt you kids are the same. So even if I'd thought you were particularly town-aligned (I don't - I continue to think that nhammen is serious in his desire to lynch you after his block hoping he hit opposite scum) I still wouldn't be letting you off the hook.

I'm not quite in a mood to just lynch anyone yet, but I'm rapidly approaching it. I think we could cut abou 8 people and hit a decent amount of scum in the bunch, but I still want this nhammen stuff sorted. Then, preferably, the people on the SGRaise wagon to follow.

[SerialClergyman]

nhammen - you totally caught me out. It seems when I first raised this I was more thinking you failed your kill and wanted to take advantage of it and more recently I've been thinking maybe you didn't and you have a genuine reason to push your block target. The fact that I'm so happy to switch between both possibilities indicates a bit (!!) of leftover confirmation bias from D1 as well as changing thoughts after you pointed out SGRaise was your target and didn't have to be.

[SerialClergyman]

Yo Lowell, why don't you like the push on nhammen? I get everything else you're saying (although I think the chance of more kill factions than 2 is unlikely given we're in a game consisting of two distinct scum groups that have mod-confirmed distinct killing styles.)

But I don't get why you're anti-nhammen wagon.

[SerialClergyman]

Every time he opens his mouth it's scummy.

Cos that doesn't apply to foilest/leaf/lmp/askbob/dryfit/unsight etc etc etc

Although I disagree on who to lynch, I tend to agree with you, Lowell. The claim and lack of kill is important and we need to deal with it one way or another. This getting everyone to list their suspects - it's just pick 3 of the scummy lurkerish players and then sit there twiddling your thumbs.

A better question is do we believe the claim? Is it likley there was a kill blocked from the Soc slot or not?

[SerialClergyman]

I've told you my thoughts on your three suspects question, and I've told you why it's not helpful. Having my name is large letters bolded won't change the fact that there are too many individuals that I could pick from. Right now my top suspect is nhammen, Socrates comes in at second and I don't particularly care about the rest.

Pom - how could you miss Lowell's reasoning for why he wants a Soc lynch? He's been talking about nothing else all day, and fair enough too.

[SerialClergyman]

Also - don't even think about jesters. They aren't worth it. They're designed to be lynched, so just lynch people if they're outrageously deserving of it and if they are a jester then shrug and get on with the game. You can't second guess that sort of read.

I'd suggest Nacho is speaking in that manner as a vague attempt to mock some others in thread, but I could be wrong.

It's also pretty obvious his motivation for his vote - questioning why someone votes the guy who got blocked when there was no kill is only likely to get you a well, duh! answer.

[SerialClergyman]

I could certainly use a cop investigation - would help me clear up this nhammen mess.

Unless you meant ON me, which would be less good.

Perhaps you can help me, Soc, you're a clever chicken - who's town at the moment?

[SerialClergyman]

Socrates - you edged out my point.

Saying town is very hard right now here's what I got:

This is exactly my problem. You're right - my apathy is very out of character for me. In fact, dirty dirty south mafia was going on while this game was on D1 and some of D2, and my post count was about 5 times higher than in this game.

But I'm utterly frustrated by a town who are totally lost. There's no cohesion and no focus. There are about 4 different little grudgy posting matches that noone other than the two wallposters involved care about (or probably read).

We need to deal with the claimed role. He wasn't killed despite being a claimed role and he claims to have blocked a kill. This needs to be dealt with, it's important. I'd appeal to people I thought were town but Parama has finished for the day, SSBF is doing a nice but ultimately pointless summary of the masons and you have a good chance of being scum ><

What I want right now is to set up an obv town group that can kick arse and take names, and I can't find enough obvtown to do it, which is very unusual.

[SerialClergyman]

Ok, I'm willing to go with this.

First of all - vezo is absolutely town. It'd be impossible for him to get 4 other people to verify his double mason status. So that's another in the town group. Next, I'm almost certain Parama is town based on read.

That picks us up to 5. Most of the scumlist could well be scum, but I don't see a huge difference between null and scum.

I think Lowell is probably town too, I've played with him 3 or so times and he seems to be being his town self, although his meta makes it tough to tell.

[SerialClergyman]

I'm feeling better about this game already.

[SerialClergyman]

I come across this same crappy argument every game and every game it's someone of foilest's level of play who makes it.

Town groups are powerful and good. Town are probably going to die each night anyway. You don't need a special list to tell who are the powerful protown players as scum. By trying to get a group together like this, we aren't telling the scum ANYTHING that they don't know or can't tell already. You could meta hundreds of my games or you could listen to Socrates, who will explain that when he was scum in iamausername's dollhouse mafia he couldn't crack the town squad and we won through pure PoE.

People trusting each other a little (obviously noone is confirmed etc etc) and working together is how town wins games.

Also, it's controversial, which means it weeds out the scum along the way because scum prefer staying alive to taking a risk. I mean - apparantly I'm scummy for putting myself in a group that has a high chance of being NKed. That's genius reasoning there.

Unsight - Did you see all the talk about MS's meta? Or are you just voting him in spite of that?

[SerialClergyman]

Nacho, could you expand on your thoughts behind nhammen? When you were defending the town roleblocker concept I got the feeling you were pro-nhammen but you recently suggest he's scum in your summary to Spy.

[SerialClergyman]

I probably owe you an apology, foilest, I didn't mean to be all arrogant about your play, it was early in the morning and i was feeling bitchy.

I just come across your objection every single game I play and I've never found it to be true, that's all. And it' rarely the players I really respect who make it.

Why would scum even bother killing you? They can just kill the rest of them and single out you or someone else and say "hey, why isn't he dead yet?"

This is like scum behaviour 101, so it's easily countered. If people start loudly saying ho, ho! who is this person left alive?? and then getting me lynched, my flip brings the town right back to them. Breaking up a town group is seriously hard as scum, you have a good chance of outing yourself even after one or more mislynches. I learned that in Emerald Mafia (in my wiki) as scum, where a protown group formed and almost won the game via PoE despite some great play on our behalf.

This is iam's dollhouse game where the last 3 lynches were essentially 'lynch anyone but Serial, farside or elvis.' Setting up that group won us the game and it meant the scum, who played really well, were totally denied a chance to win.

mith's /inv 4 is another pretty good example of just using a pro-town block of players to work through the scum's fakeclaim chain and crack it.

I've played games where all I do is townhunt early in the game and literally am happy to lynch anyone other than 5 or so people I have townreads on, and quite a few of them have been successful. If you think back to your town wins, I'm sure you'll find most of them were more successful when the town worked together and displayed some trust, NOT (counter to intuition) when the town were paranoid and watching their backs all the time. Being skeptical is good, and questioning your reads is also good but hell - this is a game where even the scum want to find scum! So chances are someone's suspicions are truly their suspicions. It's time to work with that and see where we can go.

By the way, vezo, I'm about 1,000,000% behind you.

[SerialClergyman]

Wrong move, little man. Getting called out as scummy is par for the course when starting to talk about town reads. don't let it phase you. (and yes, town and scum both react negatively, although rarely do scum react positively. In fact if you offer to include scum, they're often so wary that they question their own inclusion, saying things like 'wait, I'm not confirmed town by any means' This happened in my last game, Hoopla's mini.) That was why I said earlier how I was feeling better about this game already. Besides, it doesn't have ot be quite so formal. Just lets get a bit of chat going about pulling this joint into a unified direction.

[SerialClergyman]

Hilariously, Parama you posted that at 11:37am site time.

[SerialClergyman]

Or like, you know, not hilariously, because obviously 11:37 is not 13:37.

..

<-- is old and sleepy.

[SerialClergyman]

Oh god its SpyreX

run

Scumconscience?

Rggh, I'm digging your style, Spy, but I wish you'd chosen someone other than MS. I know you won't take meta arguments, but when I was literally in a game that was running AS THIS GAME was running and was scum, and got MS lynched with essentially exactly the same sort of reasons, I'm really not hungry to jump on the wagon.

Also, could you detail a littlem ore clearly your view of the claims? I know you've made a few predictions but there's a lot of bustle in your (admittedly awesome) posts and I just want to nail down where you are on them.

[SerialClergyman]

Sorry for my lack of input recently, I'm a mad football fan and I work in live media, so the world cup has smashed me on a personal and professional level.

Mod: I fully intend to keep up with the game, but I have weird hours and limited access so please be a bit kind on me for at least the next 2 weeks. Thanks.

In other news, Robo is marginally more likely to be town with his claim, but the old chestnut of push lynch till claim then switch is something to avoid.

I'd get behind Socrates with you Lowell. And I think he was on Spyrex's list as well. Sevis/Shrine I'm lukewarm on.

MS looking less and less like scum. Good on him.