mini 958: Just Another Mafia Problem - GAME OVER!

[MafiaSSK]

Now I would REALLY like a summary of TBM case. However, the fact that he still hasn't done any serious analysis whatsoever in the game. Along witht he fact that he has a L3 wagon on him that he could analyze.

Unvote

Call this a L2 warning

[Elias_the_thief]

Look at my posts in isolation. Look for the big post I made about halfway through the day which outlined my thoughts. That post contains my initial case against Button, and since then he has refused to answer for his actions. Thats basically the case

[ConfidAnon]

Now I would REALLY like a summary of TBM case. However, the fact that he still hasn't done any serious analysis whatsoever in the game. Along witht he fact that he has a L3 wagon on him that he could analyze.

Unvote

Call this a L2 warning

The fact that you only post when there is some heat on you is fairly suspicious.

[MafiaSSK]

Now I would REALLY like a summary of TBM case. However, the fact that he still hasn't done any serious analysis whatsoever in the game. Along witht he fact that he has a L3 wagon on him that he could analyze.

Unvote

Call this a L2 warning

The fact that you only post when there is some heat on you is fairly suspicious.

Then why was the prod necessary? How come I even confirmed?

[JDodge]

The fact that my internet has been cutting out has delayed me until now. I'm starting my read-through now; I will be going through the thread from where I left off, answering the points that I feel need answering. If anything I mention has already been tackled, please just assume I haven't gotten that far yet until I finish my read-through. My idea is to emulate what I would have said had I been here as closely as possible.

[JDodge]

If you're so concerned about lurking, then start calling people out; there's no reason to stop a discussion (which is better than nothing inherently) just because you're worried someone will lurk through it.

I'm not super concerned about lurking. My point is that all you accomplish is making a lot of noise and drawing attention away from the game thread. I'm not trying to stop it solely because people will lurk through it, but also because there are things more relevant to THIS game to discuss.

I would say that this is highly relevant to this game solely because the topic came up within this game.

@Elias_the_thief: Anything is better then nothing, scummy or not. Now lurking does not equal scum, but at least a scummy post gathers information.

This shows a complete lack of understanding for what I was saying. Further, this is WRONG. A bunch of space taken up by theory discussion is counterproductive, because it draws away from whats happening in OUR game, and encourages/enables lurkers. Worse than nothing.

And yet, it's still better than empty space. Guess which one you're generating!

Was there any particular reason I stuck out to you? How did you choose? random.org? Coin flip? Gut?

In retrospect, if rover is more anti-town than I am, why is your vote still on me?

No, it was basically gut. It was better than a random vote, but really the choice between you and rover was based on nothing solid. Also, I never said rover was more anti-town, I said no lynch is more anti-town than voting mod. At this point I don't feel strongly that either of you are scum, I just don't see the point in unvoting until I have somewhere better to put my vote.

In the vein of "somewhere better to put my vote", I'd like to see confidanon show up and respond to some of the points raised against him, and I'd like to see rover show up at all.

Justify your "gut".

Based on things that had happened to the point where I responded, I felt that was the best place for my vote if the day were to end there.

What exactly do you mean by "this is the best place if the day were to end there"? You do realize how much that sounds like "this is what will look best for me if someone goes back to look later", right?

So when he gets all bent outta shape about me telling him what to do 'cause I wanted to know his reaction to Elias's vote, it tells me he's annoyed at being looked at, which is of course a scum motivation.

Do you think that only scum would be irritated by being looked at? It seems to me that if someone is being overly forceful in their approach, town would be annoyed by what they perceive as a witch hunt. Do you feel that your explanation is more likely or is it the only one you thought of?

Happy now?

No need to get your nose all bent out of shape.

[deleted per request]

1) I would imagine the prod he was given by the mod.
2) Learn to alt, noob.

Mod:

I would like you to note that I

massively

disapprove of your protection of people who can't use their alts properly by removing posts that I did not have the chance to read, thus robbing me of important information. People should be responsible for their own actions, you shouldn't be holding their hands especially when you use it in order to delete posts from the game. Hell, if I were scum in one of your games I'd start randomly posting from alts so that I can have all my unpopular comments deleted.

But I digress

.

Deleting posts per request has been and will be made based on a judgement call in regard to their contents and context. Not all requests will be fulfilled. However, noted.

Whose alt is NS?

Seconding.

Moving onward to page 6.

[Shotty to the Body]

I vaguely recall thinking 'alt fail.' Confid alt or Elias alt unless my memory fails me utterly.

[JDodge]

Also, on the No Lynch vote, I've seen rover do it before . . . I'm thinking it's something he always does. Last time he did it, he did it to spark discussion, something that isn't particularly scummy.

Stop putting words in his mouth.

I wanted to gather information needed so I can push an decent case on someone. I look at how they react, how much contents they post, among other things.

So why wait until an arbitrary point later instead of starting the game off with it?

I find it interesting how you word this as wanting to "push a decent case on someone" as opposed to wanting to find scum. Secondly, what did you find from the answers to these questions? From what I can tell, you haven't even touched on that.

A accidental random lynch is very well possible if you're not careful with what you're doing. With Random Question Stage, not only does it bring in more information and help reduce the risk of mislynches, it also reduce the possibility of an lynch during the very early stage of the game when we're just getting started, as it would help stimulate discussion in an easier, safer, and a potentially better way.

Mislynches are always going to happen. I'd rather mislynch now than mislynch on day 3.

I'm rather interested in why you bothered asking these questions and then completely ignored them. It reeks of distraction, and shame on

everyone

else for not realizing that.

Shattered is such a pill.

Lynch all lurkers is good

Why aren't you going after lurkers, then?

Elias seems to be sort of floating about.

Since my reaction test has served its purpose, I will unvote.

!!!

Explanation please

Shattered, why is it that you continue to insist that JD gives an explanation to something he doesn't support the notion of? If JD was a game hunter, you wouldn't insist he give you a speech on animal's rights. You can't expect someone to define an end to a stage they don't believe neccessarily exists.

I feel very strongly about animal's rights. If you don't cook the animals right, they'll be a waste.

Alright, now stop. This is one step away from a religious debate.

Philosophical debate, actually. I think that demonstrated my point quite well, really.

Do not put anyone at L-2 this early. We have over two weeks of discussion left, doing so this early is dangerous. Some uninformed player could accidently lynch Super Mega Awesome Pimp! right now.

A great reason to keep him there, actually. It's always good to weed out those sorts of people.

Very odd that you are insisting someone place votes, especially with no reasoning.

grrrrnkl

It seems quite obvious that he's stated his reasoning multiple times. It is

not suspicious for someone to push a wagon they are suspicious on.

Onward to page 7!

You seem quiet, cow. Why is that?

You're trying to make an random response to an serious response. Yeah hasdgfas should have explained his vote, but he did say it wasn't random.

eh wat

It's called "sarcasm"

You do have a point, but I think it's okay to random vote in Page 3, when we don't have much substances or discussions going on.

But he

specifically said it was not random

.

I think SSBF is a good target at this point.

JDodge: His totally unecessary theory discussion which I heard was counterproductive.

"I heard"?

Yeah, you keep drinking that kool-aid, man.

This is wrong using a ni-unto definitive tell. It's called buddying/coaching.JDodge is committing this tell by 1, using a smiley face to the direct person and implying that they are like JDodge. This gives the person happiness and likes JDodge better despite their own beliefs. To add on to this, JDodge begins coaching Shotty on what to do. He gives advice as to the reason why its long. This nurtures the buddying while still seeming town.

So I was buddying up by being nice and then telling someone why something someone else was doing is bad? Yeeeeeeeeeah.

Could you please expand on this last part on how self-preservation isn't just a scum thing? All anti-town factions want to stay together as long as they can.

When was the last time you went into a game as town and thought "gee I can't wait until I die"?

Thanks for reminding me why I wanted you gone from the start

OH CRAP I PUT A SMILE THERE I GAVE US AWAY AS SCUMBUDDIES I'M SO SORRY

I never said I had thoughts on who was scum. I said I had insights to alignment.

Can you enlighten me on the difference?

SAMP has a join date, you should ask him that.

Alts, could mean the join date is useless. He's just being thorough.

I've got too much to comment on. I'm moving on to page 8 now, and I

know

you are all going to really hate me for these posts in the long run.

[JDodge]

Suspecting ConfidAnon-rover connection through 177-180.

Wow, great strawman. That was not what I said at all.

Can you clarify exactly what your point was? I'm confused.

This is going to sound unnecessarily harsh, but SSBF's posts make me groan every time I read one. I mean, they're just

bad

.

Not commenting on the majority of the discussion re:SAMP and his little meltdown over his self-proclaimed "persecution because I said I had an ego". This was an

easily predictable response

. You have no one to blame but yourself.

Can you guys call me when you stop your petty little bullshit and start playing the game please? You're acting like a group of 10 year olds, seriously. It's depressing.

Page 9 seems like time-wasting and wheel-spinning. Can we get back into some arguments without it devolving into stupidity again?

Goes completely off-topic talking about the Gunnkerig Court.

Pretty scummy read here. Mafia games are for mafia games being played, not for off-topic stuff like the Gunnkerig Court.

if i were at a desk it would have a head-shaped hole in it now

Yeah there's not much going on. Disappointed by how little is being contributed by Unsight.

I feel it prudent to choose between the two biggest wagons, so I am going to

unvote, vote: ConfidAnon

and request a claim. Most of the stuff on Buttonmen seems easily explainable by inexperience and stupidity. Confid has been around a lot longer and has no such excuse.

[magnus_orion]

Votecount 7 (Day 1)

1. ConfidAnon

(4):

hasdgfas

,

Unsight

,

rover9000

,

JDodge

2. Elias_the_thief

(0):

3. hasdgfas

(0):

4. JDodge

(0):

5. MafiaSSK

(1):

ConfidAnon

6. rover9000

(0):

7. Shattered Viewpoint

(0):

8. Shotty to the Body

(0):

9. Unsight

(0):

10. Super Awesome Mega Pimp!

(0):

11. Super Smash Bros. Fan

(1):

TheButtonmen

12. TheButtonmen

(5):

Shotty to the Body

,

Super Awesome Mega Pimp!

,

Elias_the_thief

,

Super Smash Bros. Fan

,

Shattered Viewpoint

Not Voting

(1):

MafiaSSK

Deadline is May 15, 6:30 PM EST
with 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

rover9000 has not posted in thread within 24 hours of being prodded. As per the activity rules, I will begin looking for a replacement. rover9000 will be replaced if I can find a replacement before he posts in thread.

[magnus_orion]

MrSandman replaces rover9000

[MrSandman]

Hey guys. I have some reading to do.

Unvote

[JDodge]

Mod:

Extension so that Sandman can give some contribution before the end of the day please

[MrSandman]

Oops

Unvote

.

[magnus_orion]

prodding the following:

Shattered Viewpoint


2 day extension granted due to replacement
No further extension for Day 1 will be granted.

edit: hasdgfas does not need to be prodded, actually
edit2: or unsight, for that matter

[hasdgfas]

What exactly do you mean by "this is the best place if the day were to end there"? You do realize how much that sounds like "this is what will look best for me if someone goes back to look later", right?

I meant that with how little info we had to that point, and the fact that, iirc, I was answering a question about who I would vote for if day ended there, I would have kept my vote in that place.

You seem quiet, cow. Why is that?

I seem to post in waves without realizing it. I'll make a lot of posts in a day or two, then not post for a while, or I'll post in one game and think I've posted in all my games. I'm trying to get better at that, but I get quiet at times. I try not to lurk, but I'm not zwet.

Can you enlighten me on the difference?

One is figuring out who you think is scum, one includes thinking who is town(which was the insights I had, and I don't like just blurting out who I think is town)

Can you clarify exactly what your point was? I'm confused.

SAMP said he liked having an ego, I called it scummy because he's being arrogant, which I find to be a sign of scum who think they're better than the town because they're tricking them instead of trying to work with them.

He said "So because I voted SSBF for calling me not awesome, that indicates I don't need people on my side? WTF?"

Which is strawmanning me, as the main point wasn't that he didn't need people on his side, it was that being arrogant is bad for the town.

Now I would REALLY like a summary of TBM case. However, the fact that he still hasn't done any serious analysis whatsoever in the game. Along witht he fact that he has a L3 wagon on him that he could analyze.

Unvote

Call this a L2 warning

Summaries are biased. Figure it out yourself. Oh, look, a reason you're thinking about voting him. Why need a case summary?

[MrSandman]

I read about half. I have to go out soon but I will be back later on today. I'll just answer SSBR's questions just for a start. Thanks to JDodge for getting another 48 hours of day.

1. What previous experience do you have with Mafia games?

I played a handful of games online a couple years ago. I've had the itch to start playing online again for awhile now.

2. How would you describe your playstyle?

Hard to say. I'll probably be careful starting out. My current mood affects my posting and play style.

3. What would you consider your best Mafia game and your worst?

Too long ago to give examples.

4. Do you prefer Random Question Stage or Random Voting Stage and why?

Voting. In my limited experience it has sparked more discussion. Both can be useful later on.

5. If we've gather no more information toDay and you were the deciding vote, who would you vote based off of what we have?

Will answer sooner rather than later.

6. What time zone are you and when do you post?

Atlantic Standard Time(-4). I could be on anytime. I have odd hours.

7. Do you get nervous before posting?

Not at all.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@MrSandman: Nice to see you. Hope you're a active, commited member. Also would like to say thanks for answering my questions.

@JDodge: I'm glad to see you contributing. Will get to some of your points later.

[Shattered Viewpoint]

Oh look, JDodge is back.

And it was

so quiet.

I haven't seen anything to change my vote.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I'm responding to some points against my by JDodge. Here we go:

So why wait until an arbitrary point later instead of starting the game off with it?

If you mean "start out at the beginning of the game", then I don't see how I needed to make a case on someone immediately. Later on, I know I will need to get a case done on someone. My case on Super Awesome Mega Pimp got killed off due to me being accused of tunneling, so I decided to look up TheButtonmen and I found a lot of scummy results.

I find it interesting how you word this as wanting to "push a decent case on someone" as opposed to wanting to find scum. Secondly, what did you find from the answers to these questions? From what I can tell, you haven't even touched on that.

What I found was a solid case on TheButtonmen and I am convinced that he is scum. For me, trying to push a decent case on someone = finding scums.

Mislynches are always going to happen. I'd rather mislynch now than mislynch on day 3.

I'm rather interested in why you bothered asking these questions and then completely ignored them. It reeks of distraction, and shame on everyone else for not realizing that.

It could be because not many people care about them?

eh wat

It's called "sarcasm"

How does sarcasm benefit you when we're in a serious discussion? Super Awesome Mega Pimp's reply to me and others during the time were absolutely horrible. Sure he's improved, but he still gets a slightly scummy read from me.

I think SSBF is a good target at this point.

If I'm a good target, then why didn't you attack a vote on me?

"I heard"?

Yeah, you keep drinking that kool-aid, man.

What is so important about "I heard"? It is a magic word you cannot say on Mafia games? Why was it worth commenting on at all?

This is going to sound unnecessarily harsh, but SSBF's posts make me groan every time I read one. I mean, they're just bad.

You have a vote on ConfidAnon. Did his posts makes you groan every time?

if i were at a desk it would have a head-shaped hole in it now

TheButtonmen's off-topic post contributed absolutely nothing to the game. As a matter of fact, he blatantly said it was

off-topic

. How is this post a problem?

I feel it prudent to choose between the two biggest wagons, so I am going to unvote, vote: ConfidAnon and request a claim. Most of the stuff on Buttonmen seems easily explainable by inexperience and stupidity. Confid has been around a lot longer and has no such excuse.

TheButtonmen has been on the site since Mid-November of last year, He's been on it long enough that he can host a Mafia game himself. He should not be excused for his actions for he is clearly not a newbie.

Also, five months between people joining is not that much of a difference.

[Unsight]

Yeah there's not much going on. Disappointed by how little is being contributed by Unsight.

I feel it prudent to choose between the two biggest wagons, so I am going to

unvote, vote: ConfidAnon

and request a claim. Most of the stuff on Buttonmen seems easily explainable by inexperience and stupidity. Confid has been around a lot longer and has no such excuse.

If you (or anyone) has questions for me then feel free to ask. Just saying you're "disappointed" seems like a half-hearted cop-out (or that you were too lazy to ISO me after those walls'o'text).

And what was the point of putting "I feel it prudent..." in front of that last paragraph?

[Unsight]

@MrSandman: Nice to see you. Hope you're a active, commited member. Also would like to say thanks for answering my questions.

@JDodge: I'm glad to see you contributing. Will get to some of your points later.

What was the purpose of this post?

[Elias_the_thief]

If you're so concerned about lurking, then start calling people out; there's no reason to stop a discussion (which is better than nothing inherently) just because you're worried someone will lurk through it.

I'm not super concerned about lurking. My point is that all you accomplish is making a lot of noise and drawing attention away from the game thread. I'm not trying to stop it solely because people will lurk through it, but also because there are things more relevant to THIS game to discuss.

I would say that this is highly relevant to this game solely because the topic came up within this game.

Ok. Relevant to game, yes. Relevant to scumhunting? No. And thats what I'm driving at here. There are better ways to find scum then arguing over theory because theory opinions are not based on alignment.

@Elias_the_thief: Anything is better then nothing, scummy or not. Now lurking does not equal scum, but at least a scummy post gathers information.

This shows a complete lack of understanding for what I was saying. Further, this is WRONG. A bunch of space taken up by theory discussion is counterproductive, because it draws away from whats happening in OUR game, and encourages/enables lurkers. Worse than nothing.

And yet, it's still better than empty space. Guess which one you're generating!

I'll keep that tone in mind when I look at the 10 page gap between your posts. Ho hum.

Was there any particular reason I stuck out to you? How did you choose? random.org? Coin flip? Gut?

In retrospect, if rover is more anti-town than I am, why is your vote still on me?

No, it was basically gut. It was better than a random vote, but really the choice between you and rover was based on nothing solid. Also, I never said rover was more anti-town, I said no lynch is more anti-town than voting mod. At this point I don't feel strongly that either of you are scum, I just don't see the point in unvoting until I have somewhere better to put my vote.

In the vein of "somewhere better to put my vote", I'd like to see confidanon show up and respond to some of the points raised against him, and I'd like to see rover show up at all.

Justify your "gut".

Which gut? My choice between the two was arbitrary. It was too early in the day to have solid reads.

Elias seems to be sort of floating about.

?

Do you plan to keep reading? Or are you done scumhunting by page 8? I mean you're dismissing a case on TBM, which is based to a decent degree on the stuff past page 8.

[MrSandman]

@MrSandman: Nice to see you. Hope you're a active, commited member.

I plan to be.

Of the people with current votes.

ConfidAnon: Very few posts with useful game related content. Numerous off topic posts and attacks on lurkers despite just getting by himself. Does bring up a few decent points on what is good for the town but he really isn't helping the town much ether. My first read through has this guy #1 on my scumdar.

MafiaSSK: Admitting to active lurking was a real turn off to me. Someone pointed out that means just posting enough to stay under the radar(I thought it meant being active on the site and reading, but not posting) but still, this guy has been lurking, some excused, some not. Requesting for summaries? I suppose that could just be considered laziness but it still stood out to me.

Super Smash Bros. Fan: Not seeing a viable day one lynch here.

TheButtonmen: Definatily some smoke there but I don't feel as strongly as some of you seem to be. I don't agree with his lynch all lurkers policy but I also don't mind him asking for a stop to the "bullshit arguments". Comes across as just angry over the game than scummy. Glad he chose not to claim, it's not at that level yet.

Overall, I'm going to

Vote ConfidAnon

for dodging and being the most obvious guy that's not contributing.

While I think lurking is a concern, I don't think it alone should be the reason for a lynch. MafiaSSK would be that vote though.

JDodge, are you happy with your vote on ConfidAnon? Is it still a vote because of his flaking history vote or has that changed?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@MrSandman: Nice to see you. Hope you're a active, commited member. Also would like to say thanks for answering my questions.

@JDodge: I'm glad to see you contributing. Will get to some of your points later.

What was the purpose of this post?

Two things. One, I wanted to be nice (To MrSandman and JDodge) and another reason is that I wanted to give them a bit of a compliment.