Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[DrippingGoofball]

EBWOP: Supposing I got a role pm just like the sample, would it be possible for me to lose the game although other townies won the game

Other townies, or non-hostile others???

[Ellibereth]

xvart ( 8 ) Ellibereth LLamaFluff ojanen Nicodemus fishythefish charter UncertainKitten VP Baltar

^^^There's probably more scum/other on this. Guessing Nico.

[Gammagooey]

I do like this Troll wagon, him being dissapointed in Phate's wagon falling apart but not particularly thinking that Phate was scum is still bugging the hell out of me.

##Vote:Zorblag

[zoraster]

Supposing I got a role pm just like the sample, would it be possible for me to lose the game although other townies won the game

I'm not quite sure what you mean, but if you have the sample win con and person X also has the sample win con, there is no way you'd be able to win and not him and vice versa.

[Jack]

##unvote
##Vote:Zorblag

DGB's recent post sounds quite plausible.

[StrangerCoug]

Is the mod colorblind? xD

I do like this Troll wagon, him being dissapointed in Phate's wagon falling apart but not particularly thinking that Phate was scum is still bugging the hell out of me.

##Vote:Zorblag

Interesting.

[Gammagooey]

I DO tend to strive for better than boring.

[UncertainKitten]

@SC: Sorry, not gonna cut it. FoS stands.

The power of DGB is compelling, and I'm not gonna get a Nico lynch, am I?

Waiting for a VC before I vote.

[Ellibereth]

Vig can shoot Nico.

[Chronopie]

I'm still not happy with Fishy (liar), but DGB makes a good case. ofc I've never played with Zorblag, so I have no idea on meta myself.

I second UK on the VC before voting.

[StrangerCoug]

@SC: Sorry, not gonna cut it. FoS stands.

I don't see how my defense is inadequate. Am I not entitled to my opinion and my reasoning as to how I came to it? If I misunderstand the situation, where am I in error, and how does my error make me scummy?

[UncertainKitten]

I don't think your reasoning fits with what you said. Again, how does fishy alignment have anything to do with farside/llama, outside of them arguing it? It was pretty obvious they weren't attacking each other in the sense they thought each other to be scum. Basically, your statement reads like "Hey, saying something is town v. town gets me town cred", but you screwed it up.

[Zorblag]

If at this point we as a town want to lynch someone other than Fishythefish then I might have an alternate plan for him that would tie up a few things. I'm going to take it that most people believe his claim about both the one shot tracker/transmitter and the points. If I'm right that there aren't a lot of scum in this game then we don't actually want Fishythefish sticking around; I think he's a fair amount more likely to be on town lynches than scum lynches which hurts his faction in terms of points so I suspect that he'll be a bit more likely than town to simply try to stay off lynches as a whole which isn't something we really want.

On the other hand, we've got a claimed PGO. It seems to me that it might be acceptable to those who still want the Fishythefish lynch that we have him target Gammagooey with a track and whoever he thinks is most likely to be town with his transmit. His death should verify Gammagooey's claim (or not) and we'll potentially get tracking information (at least whether or not he targets anyone) on Gammagooey that I imagine trackers would be somewhat reluctant to get on their own. Whoever receives the transmission doesn't even have to worry about sharing it as they're not revealing anything about their role. Fishythefish should find that a much better deal than just getting lynched today so it should be an all around win for town and his claimed non-hostile other faction. It'll also give us a fair amount more useful information to work with.

Past that I'm now the center of a fair amount of attention. I'll give a bit of a defense in my next post but first I'll share some thoughts on other players and ask a few questions.

@Plum, should I take it that you've got no problems with Chronopie's story about what happened at the start of day two?

@Gammagooey, do you have any objections to the plan I've proposed for Fishythefish?

Re: Chronopie. I still hate his story about what happened at the start of the day. If he's telling the truth I don't like that he's posting before he looked at his investigation result and I don't like that didn't vote for Fishythefish when he got a non-town result until after another vote. On the other hand I now have to acknowledge that he completely missed the fact that Fishythefish revealed that he had used some sort of night action after telling me that he hadn't used his one shot tracker/transmitter in Post 649 when he made Posts 694 and 696 but that he's later seen it and made it a driving point. His attention to detail probably is worse than I expect it to be.

Re: Phate. Now that he's asked to replace out I'm a bit more comfortable with his behavior than I was before. As I tried to explain to Gammagooey earlier it's the fact that people left his wagon and started to write him off before he'd gotten around to doing anything particularly pro-town that was most troubling to me. I didn't at all have him cleared from being scum when we had our conversation which Gammagooey seems to think is the case but his post on RedCoyote was a step in the right direction. When other steps failed to follow it was a flag but I'll accept replacing out as a sufficient explanation.

Re: popsofctown. What reactions do people think he would have given to the fake day vig if he were scum? If that's what's causing people to clear him I just don't see it at all. On the other hand, we're now supposed to believe that if he made his choice randomly and got scum he would have given some other reasons for his selection because he knew that the story about choosing randomly would be scummy. Instead, he picked randomly in a game where he had compete control over what alignment he was going to get to play, got what would be his last choice and is now playing an alignment he hates and then explained making that choice in a way that he knew was going to be scummy when he had an alternative ready should have have come up scum.

Further, it doesn't benefit him at all as he seems to be saying it does to pick his role randomly if we're only playing this game once. If we were playing multiple times with this sort of setup that might enter into the picture but for a one time thing the only thing that benefits him is being able to make others think that he chose his role randomly.

Re: Jack. This won't make me more popular than I am in anyone's eyes, probably least of all his, but Jack is probably the player who's doing the most to help the town in my opinion. It's like he's figured out how to get the usefulness of a DrippingGoofball/Albert B. Rampage type player into the game from himself but then he doesn't have to fully commit to that playstyle. He's getting informative reactions and he's looking at the information that's likely to be helpful as we go. The town would do well to listen to him.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Plum]

@Plum, should I take it that you've got no problems with Chronopie's story about what happened at the start of day two?

Nope. Fishy out-and-out claimed third party after Chrono claimed stuff on him. Scum/Hostile Other Cop or whatever is possible, sure, but not the biggest concern - and in any case, why would that have an effect on whether he'd post before seeing his PM? What do you think about my plan to have every Non Hostile claim that now, Zorblag?

If we're not going to lynch Fishy he's not going to target a PGO just because we tell him to, is he? I wouldn't object, but if you really don't trust Fish

[DrippingGoofball]

Troll fails to answer my analysis in any way, shape or form. Instead, he picks out a few players from the crowd that he considers paragraph-worthy, and re-hashes old stuff he's already said.

Troll sucks up to Jack, who is a bit unpredictable and may be perceived as being worthy of soothing.

Plum already pointed out the holes in the PGO testing plan.

MOAR TROLL VOATS PLZ

[Jack]

Hmm I'm a sucker for flattery, really like zor's fishy--gamma suggestion, don't particularly think SK is the top threat (given that last nights kills look more like vig + mafia) and that was DGB's accusation, and zor is in favor of a pops lynch which is cool.

##unvote

Also, the last person I saw start a day without claiming a result, then claim a guilty and say they hadn't checked their pm's, was a mafia traitor. Under fire + nothing to lose? The fact that people have been very protection of chrono + jumping all over Nico for rightly asking for clarification makes me suspicious too. The claim was vague and it is not terrible for a claimed town role to be suspected, if they aren't anywhere near being lynched. Best case they are actually scum, worst case...they are town and don't get lynched. Maybe they are let live a while longer even.

Farside, you will probably know what I'm thinking about if you claim "roleblocked" every night.

@Zor: what do you think of d3x?

I see scum who wasn't up to the effort of doing a real analysis and so made up an excuse for his "jack vs fishy--goes to fishy" bs. Then is all about answering questions people ask him "if I missed any please let me know" yadda yadda. Then he smells a mislynch with my QT thing and pushes that. He drops that completely the next day, pushes the fishy lynch but otherwise disappears.

vote:d3x

[Jack]

@DGB: I'm a happy camper too, this is a fun game. Don't see that as a strong argument. It's easy to mess up a meta read when a game is different than usual. This one is fast, has a fun setup, and cool players.

[Zorblag]

@Plum, I think that if Fishythefish was given the choice between being lynched today and getting the chance to transmit a track on Gammagooey to someone he thought was town he'd probably take it. Like I said, I'm not sure that it actually behooves him to try to be on lynches as I'd guess he's got a better chance of hitting town than scum which hurts him so I'm not overly convinced he'd mind dying in a way that helped the town as a town win does benefit him so long as he's telling the truth.

I think that the non-hostile other claim plan is interesting. Doubly so because Fishythefish says that he doesn't have a safe claim which might provide extra incentive. Knowing who was claiming to fall into that category and having some control over them in exchange for letting them work in the open might be an interesting deal to offer. I'm not sure how likely they would be to take the town up on it though.

@DrippingGoofball, as I said, I'll give something of a defense shortly. I'm pausing in writing it to respond to these posts.

@Jack, d3x is on the list of players that I need to go back and look at again. I probably won't get to him tonight but I should have time tomorrow. Nicodemus and Shotty to the Body definitely fall on that list as well.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Plum]

Jack - I remember that game too, of course, but the timing here seems much more plausible, that and the fact that Fishy admitted to Otherhood.

[Plum]

@Plum, I think that if Fishythefish was given the choice between being lynched today and getting the chance to transmit a track on Gammagooey to someone he thought was town he'd probably take it. Like I said, I'm not sure that it actually behooves him to try to be on lynches as I'd guess he's got a better chance of hitting town than scum which hurts him so I'm not overly convinced he'd mind dying in a way that helped the town as a town win does benefit him so long as he's telling the truth.

Maybe maybe not. He'd probably try to transmit to someone he thought was prob Town anyway, skip the suicide, and hope the Town would find a reason not to go after him. Waste of our time. If you truly don't trust Fishy, you'll want to lynch him now.

[Zorblag]

@Plum, right now I'm still voting for Fishythefish. Lynching him does seem wiser to me regardless of whether I trust him or not (and I asked him a lot of questions to which I got mostly pretty good answers so I think he probably is telling most of the truth.) What I see right now is a town that doesn't share that opinion so I'm offering another potential option. If Fishythefish doesn't do what we want him to today then there'll be even more reason to lynch him tomorrow. He'd get an extra day to stay alive if he wanted but that would let the town know that he's really not trying to help them. If he benefits from a town win like he says then there's no way he'd want us to waste a day lynching him rather than hunting for scum.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Gammagooey]

Zor- On Phate: Okay, you don't like the reasonings for people getting off the Phate wagon. Where's your suspicions of them or your questions for clarification on why they got off of Phate?
Of the 7 people on the wagon at the largest votecount

phate ( 7 ) farside22 DrippingGoofball VP Baltar Zorblag Shotty to the Body Jack imaginality

The only one that I saw you ask any question about the wagon was DGB, and that was if she thought there were scum on the wagon with her.

on Fishy- As Plum said, It's a decent plan but I'm having a pretty hard time seeing Fishy actually go through with it.

on pops- I would personally expect a "balls"/"You bastard" instead of Hey don't think DGB is town because of this I'll post suspicions if I have time: If he's about to flip scum then saying the person about to shoot you isn't necessarily town seems incredibly pointless.

[Jack]

Right. Take a shot at scum today, and lynch Fishy tomorrow if he doesn't do the PGO thing. I don't see any strong argument for demanding his lynch today rather than tomorrow--and so, if there is just a small chance of him going through with the PGO thing then it is worthwhile. It also gives us some time to truly settle into the game, detective result--quicklynch days are kind of jarring.

[Zorblag]

DrippingGoofball is right about a couple of things. I'm not an exceptional scum hunter. I don't think that I've ever claimed to be and I don't expect that I ever will. I summed up my self opinion publicly not too long ago here. I'm don't think I'm a terrible scum hunter but you shouldn't expect me to bring down an entire scum team even when I'm at the top of my game. That certainly doesn't mean that I don't try but I'm aware of some of my strengths and weaknesses.

I also don't particularly like working with others. In addition to scum being easy to play (I'm not sure why people think that I'm lying about that but that's probably a discussion to be had elsewhere) it involves working directly with others. I don't have that issue as town. As town I'm largely working on my own to figure out what's going on and (possibly eventually) persuade others to work with me. I'm not sure why DrippingGoofball doesn't think that I'd like that. It's a challenge but it's possible.

If I could have explicitly picked Serial Killer then I would have had to give it serious consideration. I'd know that I was in control of my own fate for the most part and have some power to get things done. Other in general though is really pretty likely to be pretty hard for me to win. If I don't have a kill to shape the game around me in beneficial ways then I'm way too likely to get killed. When I was making my choice I had to assume that my victory condition as other would be pretty likely to involve my needing to stay alive (which isn't true as town) which makes it much less appealing.

People will either believe that or not but I really did go with the choice that should be both fun and challenging while also possible.

Let's assume you don't believe it though. Let's assume that you think that I probably did pick other. I might not be the best scum hunter ever but I hope you'll accept am pretty good at figuring out how to use game mechanics. As almost any role for other I've got every reason to try to use them in a way that helps the town at this point. I'm under a fair amount of pressure so people will be watching me closely. If you think that I'm equally helpful to the town no matter what my alignment is then give me a chance to do that helping.

The idea that I'm not readable and you just lynch me no matter what my alignment is after you think that I've reached the limit of how much I can help is pretty ridiculous. I'm aware of a number of tells that people should be able to use to figure out my alignment fairly consistently. Thus far others haven't noticed most of them it seems.

Actually, on that note, like I said earlier, there is a reason that you think I've been been looking more active than normal (you seem to be taking it as being a happy camper.) It's because I've been trying to do that. The last two games I've been involved with as scum (Open 193 and Mafia Reverberation (as Mighty Orbots)) I played with a number of the players in this game. I think it's pretty likely that I developed a bit of a meta for being inactive until I needed to jump into action right at the end when I'm scum in those games. It certainly behooves me to play against what I think people think my scum meta is (regardless of my alignment.)

As pure WIFOM that shouldn't really carry any weight, I know how to stay out of the spotlight in games. I've been prying at things that don't make me popular in this game when I don't have any need to at all. If I were scum or other I'd have every reason to find more universally accepted things to post about. As town I've got every reason to dig into the things that really don't strike me as quite right both because it's important to figure them out and it doesn't really matter if people care about it as town doesn't need me around to win.

DrippngGoofball is calling what I've been doing fake scum hunting. I clearly disagree. I've been pointing out the play that I don't think should be coming from town and trying to gather information about the environment that we're actually in and how to use it for a town win.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[Gammagooey]

Oh since fishy lynch isn't a given anymore.

SCUMLIST! each category is in player # order.

TOWN

-DGB
-Llama

LEANING TOWN

-charter (special mention- was actually leaning scum until right around his last post, but that reaction looks completely legit to me)
-Chrono
-DDD
-Elli
-Phate
-pops
-UK
-Plum

NEUTRAL

-d3x
-farside
-imaginality
-Nico
-RedCoyote

LEANING SCUM

-StrangerCoug
-Shotty (lurkity lurk lurk)
-Zorblag

lol,points

-fishy
-Jack