mini 943- Greek Mythology! (And the winner is... ?)

[Iecerint]

Only one possibility in which LC is not poseidon.
- Snowbunny was actually Poseidon. AlGm\CMAR are actually part of a scum team and their ability is proxy for the mafia kill. They got the counter from the kill and realized snowbunny is Poseidon.

You'd have to work FF into that conspiracy, too, since he would know that Poseidon's counter had changed hands.

[Jack]

And that makes a FF-LC-Almaster-Joh starting scumteam.

If LC is a sk, he can't kill without revealing himself to be one right?

[Iecerint]

I think ooba's point is that the case where LC is not Poseidon is remote.

Vote: Plum

.

Reading JHH.

[ooba]

Only one possibility in which LC is not poseidon.
- Snowbunny was actually Poseidon. AlGm\CMAR are actually part of a scum team and their ability is proxy for the mafia kill. They got the counter from the kill and realized snowbunny is Poseidon.

You'd have to work FF into that conspiracy, too, since he would know that Poseidon's counter had changed hands.

Yup - thats true. Only condition where that can be true is Joh-SK. But that would mean Joh=Hades. But no counter for me so we can rule that out.

LC is confirmed Poseidon.

My thoughts:
Plum
Had a town read on my re-read through the game in N1. I was pretty confirmed Joh was scum. I specifically searched through Joh's scum game to see how he plays. Few points in Plum's favor
- Joh never random votes his scum partner in RVS (But I had a sample size of three or something)
- Joh does not aggressively push a case on his partner for most of a day. Most of the time its part of a post. Jack fits the bill.

Point against Plum - Joh voting for me over Plum when his case was much stronger.

Point for Plum - Joh actually ignoring my repeated pointers to the same question.

Andrius - Possibly my best for Hades

After discussion I think I am leaning towards
Joh\Andrius starting pair
Jack possible Recruit
Ares = SK

(or) Joh\Jack\Andruis starting Mafia

N1 is explained by this - AlGm kills bunny. Mafia target AlGm - no kil

explains lack of kills and Joh's insistance on AlGm\CMAR scum. Have to check Andrius's reactions to AlGm\CMAR.

Vote: Andrius

[Iecerint]

OK, JHH read done. I started out with intent to read for connection to Jack, Plum, FF, and/or Andy/GiD. This is all in real-time:

1. I think Jack is unlikely to be scum with JHH for JHH's tone toward Jack in his first several posts. Compare his treatment of Jack in 5 to his treatment of me in 4. (Edit: This continues later.) It might be helpful to see if JHH intentionally treats his scumfriends with rhetoric explicitly similar to what he uses against town.
2. The above could be trying to tie scumfriend Jack to me, but it's less likely IMO because of iso 7, and then overdrive in iso 10. He also frames us as "buddying" one another at first, which doesn't work to tie us together well.
3. JHH has a Plum fixation. Iso 11 and he's still asking for her meta even though tons of more interesting things have happened.

Why would scum push for meta on a townie without turning up the volume when feasible town targets (namely SV, also Jack->Iec, also VV) have already appeared?

4. Iso 13 and 14 are chatting with Plum. Concludes with YOU KEEP MY VOTE, WOMAN. HOWEVER, I MAY UNVOTE YOU IF YOU SHAPE UP. This is JHH finally having gotten Plum to respond to his peaceful "let's distance please" overtures to my eye and concluding it with a "Mission Accomplished" bit..
5. Iso 15 is so good for the same:

My suspect cluster is: Snow_Bunny, Almagaster(SV), Jack, Ooba(mindgamer), Iecerint & Plum. The top two candidates are Ooba and Plum. But honestly, my suspicions of Plum partly has to do with SV’s earlier call for her playing differently, commented on earlier.

NB: At this point I switched to full-on confirmation bias mode.

6. By iso 24, I can only see Plum as town with a JHH-FF-Andy team, and 2 failed investigations is a bit much.
7. Lol @ JHH "openly wondering" about a massclaim like 8 times D2. And by 8 I mean 3 but ye know.
8. I wonder why he EBWOP'd his fake target from FF to Alma.

I go back and forth between Andy and FF as the 3rd. He totally ignores Andy mostly, and does have a few coachingish posts, and then the same business at FF.

Ooba, did you play with JHH in those games, or are you writing his biography? Also, teach me about townPlum. It doesn't help that I thought she was obvTown when I replaced in with her in Twilight. I guess she was a little more ambiguous in Kingdom Hearts, but she was a Cop there, so....

[ooba]

Ooba, did you play with JHH in those games, or are you writing his biography?

No found games from his wiki and read them in quick ISO.

Also, teach me about townPlum.

I just meta'd Joh and his behaviour with respect to partners. Will try it from the Plum angle.

[ooba]

Xmen Mafia was a game I played with him as scum but I was killed too quickly for any kind of a read on him.

Also I think its time for a masslcaim. We should have the Prob.scum tier claim first followed by the other tier.

So all three of {Plum, FF, And} claim. We {Iec, SD, ooba} can claim later. I'll go first in our tier. Regarding ordering of Prob. scum tier, I'll get back to you after Plum meta'ing.

Thoughts on this?

[Iecerint]

Thoughts about your big post:

1. I don't think JHH aggressively pushed the case on Plum at all. More like he perennially said she was scum without ever really pushing it (unless you count his RVS vote), and he mainly used a discredited player's implicit meta argument (SV's) as the basis for his "case."

2. I think he made attempts to answer that question, didn't he? Granted that it was kinda nebulous and of the form "playstyle differences" IIRC.

3. Your explanation for the N1 bit is plausible.

Preview edit: I'm probably OK with those 3 claiming. I could take or leave us following suit. In particular, SD or I can claim for the other one if one of us dies, so it's not that we risk one of us dying and robbing town of information AFAIK. I guess CMAlmaSK could join up with scum to get lucky and kill both of us, but then he'd be on the chopping block subsequently.

[Iecerint]

(Spoilers: I have no other experience with JHH, nor have I sought out his scummeta vis a vie partners, so I may be projecting inappropriately, etc.)

[Andrius]

Plum should go first, given she's the only one who wasn't investigated. I can go after her, or after FF. Doesn't matter to me. I'd rather the un-investigated player go first.

And is this just a power claim? Or a full claim?

@ Ooba: If you're saying that Ares = SK, you're not voting him? You'd put him off to vote me- investigated townie? Iece too. You say that CMAlmaSK could join up with scum to get both you and SD, but you're unwilling to vote CMARAlm?
So you two are implying that CMAR/ALm is SK, but you're not going to vote him?

[Andrius]

EBWOP:

Vote: CMAR/Alm/Whatever-the-Hydra's-name-is

If: CMAR/Alm = Ares
And:

Ares = SK

Then: CMAR/Alm = SK

[Iecerint]

Andy, stop being Hadescum, please. You are a more sympathetic villain than FF IMO.

The hypothetical CMAlmaSK can't really mess with ye towne groupe unless he wants to out himself as non-town. So scum is a better lynch target IMO.

[Shadow Dancer]

First of: Yeeehaaa. Dindong, the scum is dead, the scum is dead, the scum is dead

I really feel better now.

At first glance my most obvious play would be to lynch Plum next on account of my 2-scum-among-JackJohPlum-theory... But I still feel Plum rather tonish and her rather early vote on Jack gave her a minor plus point in my record....

FF or Andy would be next oon my list, most likely one of them is GF, problem is: The other one is genuinely innocent and I do not know, yet, who would be the better prey...

DataJunk being SK is still possible but I consider it really really unlikely. If there is an SK it is rather some one else.

I consider LC genuine Poseidon now. That also makes him most likely town. Could still be some risky scum gambit, but nothing to primary hunt for now. Only possibility left is there is a non LC scum Poseidon, but that sounds rather farfetched... SB Poseidon seems even mor unlikely to me...

I think FF full claiming would be a good think.

I decided to believe Jack for now. His claim sounds very genuine and after all that investigations and the game turning in towns favor and now a successfull scum lynch, his hide and LCs roleblock still in play, I believe that he is earnestly decided to try his best luck with town. We need to keep in mind that he can betray us any time though!

That just as a quick survey to start the new day with. Nothing of it is really set in stone, yet. I need some rereads, rethings and a good portion of RL sleep in a RL night to thing about it. Withholding my vote untill tomorrow.

Fos Plum, FF & Andy

for the meantime...

Good night to my fellow townies. Well played!

[Shadow Dancer]

EBWODP: At first glance my most obvious play would be to lynch Plum next on account of my 2-scum-among-JackJohPlum-theory... But I still feel Plum rather townish and her rather early vote on Joh gave her a minor plus point in my record....

I am too tired, sorry.

[Iecerint]

One point is that I don't think Plum is very likely scum with Andy, so...

[DataStrokers]

[AGM]

Um, where the hell did this Serial Killer thing come from? Last time I checked, Serial Killers could, you know, kill every night. And didn't turn up innocent to investigations. Thus far, you have seen a single shot due to my super power. I don't even have that ability anymore. Which, by the way, I can still claim my new one if my other head didn't already.

It can help with verification.

And that makes a FF-LC-Almaster-Joh starting scumteam.

For the 1042395830th time, why?

Anyway, I agree with the Plum-stalling-equals-scum sentiment. This game is complicated as fuck. It will take awhile to come up with a good fakeclaim.

[Iecerint]

(^ SKs are investi-immune pretty frequently, and there's only been one night with kills allowed so far.)

I'd forgotten about your new normal/special/whatever. After the big three, I think.

[Iecerint]

Though come to think of it --

Scum steal powers in this game. That's an awfully cruel world for an SK.

[LordChronos]

@Jack

Please explain why Joh and I would both have claimed Poseidon if we were scumbuddies, since it would result in one of us dying for sure.

I would like Andrius and Plum to claim, since they are the most likely to be scum at this point in my opinion.

[Jack]

Sorry, should have been:

"And that makes a FF-LC-Almaster-Joh starting scumteam--which is clearly unbalanced and implausible"

[LordChronos]

Ok, that makes alot more sense.

[Plum]

I'm Gaia, Mother Goddess of the Earth. I'm sort of a modified doctor; I can choose someone to hide with me and so long as I'm not targeted with a kill they won't die. I protected Ooba Night 1. If you need it I'll claim my special now. Nu?

[Iecerint]

Please claim who the scum are, too, thanks. <3

[ooba]

I'm Gaia, Mother Goddess of the Earth. I'm sort of a modified doctor; I can choose someone to hide with me and so long as I'm not targeted with a kill they won't die. I protected Ooba Night 1. If you need it I'll claim my special now. Nu?

Yup. Special, N2 target.

Last time I checked, Serial Killers could, you know, kill every night. And didn't turn up innocent to investigations. Thus far, you have seen a single shot due to my super power. I don't even have that ability anymore. Which, by the way, I can still claim my new one if my other head didn't already. It can help with verification.

SKs as already mentioned can be investigation immune. But I agree with Iece that you can wait until the big three complete their list.

[Andrius]

I doubt Plum's claim on the basis that her goddess is rather obscure, in the sense that she's not one of the main ones, the "12 Olympians" if you will. Mine is one of the 12.

You want me to go next, or FF?