Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[DrippingGoofball]

And the wall of wallposting really killed my interest as well.

My posts are short.

Would a healthy wagon on you make things more exciting?

[Ellibereth]

Para is soooo town.

FISHY IS SCUM.
After getting confronted by the vote analysis, instead of trying to
1) Convince me he's town.
2) Convince me someone else on the wagon isn't town.
HE DISCREDITS IT.

PARA, JOIN US. WE'VE CAUGHT A BIG FISH.

[Parama]

I would sheep your lynch but my gut has been telling me all game that Elli is scum.

*punches gut*

That's better.

*blindly sheeps*

##unvote
##vote: Fishythefish

[VP Baltar]

@VP Baltar & Parama

What's the matter, you didn't get the alignment you asked for? Are your buddies flailing?

As Para said, everyone got the alignment they asked for, so....

But the truth is that all you have to do is note my V/LA in my sig. I have a mountain of work over this time period and while I've been trying to do my best to keep up in my games, this one is moving at an especially rapid pace. I almost never replace out of games, but if I can't keep up in a way that I can make a meaningful contribution then I don't see any point in me staying. I couldn't even tell you the major events that have happened over the past few pages and my will to find out isn't very high atm.

[Zorblag]

So no one at all complained that Phate told farside22 that he wasn't interested in providing a list of reads because it helps scum to know who town thinks is town and then he proceeded to spend his next couple posts deciding why he thinks Jack is town. He also at that point hadn't come up with an reasons for thinking that someone was scummy in a way that he wanted to vote for them (unless you'll take his first post on VP Baltar as doing that; I'm inclined to call it on the light side.

In fact, rather than complaining, people seemed to be moving towards thinking that he was town based on those actions. I found it pretty confusing.

He's redeemed a bit by the fact that he did manage to come up with an actual suspect before I got around to pointing this out.

Right now I'm waiting to hear again from Jack on the whole Gammagooey issue but I imagine that it's pretty likely that the hypothetical nature of the question was designed to draw responses from people rather than indicate an actual scummy action in a quick topic.

While I'm waiting,

##Unvote
##Vote: popsofctown

If people are going to fall out of love with a Phate lynch and a wagon is starting on popsofctown I'm pretty happy moving back there. He'd be a fine target for a vig or whatnot but if people want to lynch him instead I'll support that as well.

@Ellibereth and DrippingGoofball, how much experience do you have with Fishythefish? He's certainly a numbers kind of guy (you can take a look at what he's done in the Numbers Thread for an example.) The objection he's raising here is pretty much the sort of objection I'd expect him to raise.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[zoraster]

Cobalt has been prodded. StrangerCoug replaces Jazzmyn

[LlamaFluff]

Hey cool, Jazz is replaced. Gamma can scumhunt now without

distractions

.....

excuses

... having to worry about lurkers.... yeah that will work.

[charter]

Fishy's defense from Ellibereth is pretty terrible and his one from DGB is even worse.

Interested to hear from Jack/Gamma about this neighbor thing.

Balter is still scum.

[Gammagooey]

One train of thought has left the station.

##Unvote Jazz

Zor- What? Phate said he wouldn't give reads on everyone, giving one detailed read on a controversial player with some votes on him doesn't contradict that. I'd like to wait for RC to respond before going into detail, but Phate's case gives me good vibes, what do you think of it? (scale of 1 to 10 would be great)

Charter- did you read the first sentence of my 388? (you can ignore the rest since Jazz's scum-lurking in another game means almost nothing now that she's been replaced)

[Jack]

Scumlist:

Gamma
Red
Nico
FishyTheF

Town list:
a surprising number of people

[popsofctown]

[in mafia 89 revenge I] see that there were actually 5 scum, not 3. A fact that I would assume you were acquainted with since you were a part of the game. To me it looks like you fixed the numbers so that there was a higher perceived probability of you rolling town than there should have been, just to get us to trust your townness that much more.

FoS pops

for this entirely unbelievable explanation.

That game was over a year ago. No, I didn't remember, and I suppose used the wrong seed. I must have used a player list that didn't include endgamed players.

The attacks against me for using a random number generator and announcing it aren't very alignment grounded. I want to self-preserve, no matter what my alignment is. No matter what my alignment is, a player who knows me well would have expected me to select scum. So no matter what my alignment is, it's in my best interest to explain that I used a random process to generate my alignment, and now it's all up to them to scumhunt as best they can.


FishytheFish has

correctly

identified Gambler's Fallacy in the analysis of his wagon, and I think he's town anyhow. Please quit wagoning him. It gives me headaches in my math/logic lobes. (to be fair though, he did fail to realize that each townie member

does

make the next more likely to be town, but that is because they are a member of the town, not a member of the wagon. The town has a definite composition.

Well, actually in this game it doesn't, we all made independent choices about which side to play. But usually it does. So in this case the attack on Fishy is actually 100% fallacious)


I didn't like xvart's early posting, I agree with the assessment that the misinterpretation of the mason comment could be overreaching due to him being scum and looking for cases really hard. Now, he's a repeat offender:

prod dodge


yes you guys wallpost that's why i'm afraid to catch up.

Wait, is zoraster modding this one? Is he a content nazi on prod dodges?

Um. Cawntent. Post 333 is scummy. Weird hanging prepositions all over the place. Clearly he's too stressed by the manipulation his role requires to use grammar properly.

Another prod dodge (2 out of 3 posts) and one scummy observation. More votes please.

He seems to miss that I'm force-generating content to avoid zoraster's potential wrath, and that my analysis is totally tongue in cheek. I think this could be the subtle effects of his agenda tinting his perspective.

I'm actually not concerned about most of the other votes on my wagon. Most are saying it was an awkward post. It was an awkward post because I knew it would be called scummy even as I wrote it, and I don't make posts like that often. I felt like I wanted to say so though, after bothering to use the method, it seemed like a necessary followthrough. I just shouldn't have mentioned it though.

You're all welcome to lynch me for awkwardposting, but it'd be out of line to lynch me for lurking. I got stuck 11 pages behind at one point, surely you all know how hard that is to take all at once, and don't think it's merely a tactical decision to avoid posting content that might make me readable.

Policy lynching me because you think I won't be readable the rest of the game doesn't do it for me either. I wasn't caught up before, I'm caught up now, and I have a record of being an active player.

[Fishythefish]

Para is soooo town.

FISHY IS SCUM.
After getting confronted by the vote analysis, instead of trying to
1) Convince me he's town.
2) Convince me someone else on the wagon isn't town.
HE DISCREDITS IT.

PARA, JOIN US. WE'VE CAUGHT A BIG FISH.

1) Traditionally, the burden of proof is on you. You have said nothing that shows I'm scum.
2) If you want to say that

seven

people are all town, you are predicting a ~one in a thousand event. It's ridiculous to say that I should have to discredit that by calling one particular one of them scum. You are almost certainly wrong that they are all town; telling me I have to disprove that by specifying one scum among them is another logical fallacy.
3) Let's go over the Gambler's Fallacy (thanks for terminology pops) one more time, this time by analogy:

1) The players numbered 1,4,7,9,12,14,16,18 in this game are {whoever they are are}
2) I have town reads on {1,4,7,12,14,16,18}
3) In the last 100 theme games with >18 people, there was scum in this set of players (this is probably true)
4) Therefore, 9 is scum.

This logic is clearly false (I hope), due to the arbitrary grouping of players. Your argument against me is not this bad - but it relies on the fact that wagons of 8 people

must always

contain scum - and not just because a random grouping of 8 people almost always contains scum.

So. I think that the logic of your case fails. I think it relies on a ludicrous number of unconfirmed reads. I'm amazed at the support it has received.

@Llama, charter, Parama:

You paid lip service to this wagon (and in Parama's case voted). Do you share the conviction that EVERY SINGLE ONE of
Ellibereth LLamaFluff ojanen Nicodemus charter UncertainKitten VP Baltar
is town? Do you think that an 8 person wagon is significantly more likely to contain scum than a random group of 8 people?

I plan to do something that isn't defending myself this evening.

[Ojanen]

VP picked town, I'm pretty sure.

He completely reads as legitly RL stressed/issued. Everything about his reason for picking town because it takes less time to dedicate is plausible to my perception of him. I'm pretty sure I've seen him describe an anti-town win as a lot of effort, he didn't look at the player list when he was picking, his meta of recent months supports the fact that he has less time for mafia overall.
His normal cuddliness has been out-of-character low. Now he is contemplating replacing out [I've never ever seen him do that] and he hasn't been inclined to care about the game.
There's even the moody drunk post.
I mean damn, I'm inclined to say something like take care to him.

this game needs more excitement, I don't even feel like playing anymore.

*whine complain BAAAAW BAAAAW*

COWARD

[Ojanen]

VP picked town, I'm pretty sure.

He completely reads as legitly RL stressed/issued. Everything about his reason for picking town because it takes less time to dedicate is plausible to my perception of him. I'm pretty sure I've seen him describe an anti-town win as a lot of effort, he didn't look at the player list when he was picking, his meta of recent months supports the fact that he has less time for mafia overall.
His normal cuddliness has been out-of-character low. Now he is contemplating replacing out [I've never ever seen him do that] and he hasn't been inclined to care about the game.
There's even the moody drunk post.
I mean damn, I'm inclined to say something like take care to him.

this game needs more excitement, I don't even feel like playing anymore.

*whine complain BAAAAW BAAAAW*

COWARD

[UncertainKitten]

Honestly, Fishy's reaction sounds like something Fishy would do. I understand that discrediting the tell is generally bad but...this doesn't feel like scum Fishy in situations I've played with him.

[VP Baltar]

I mean damn, I'm inclined to say something like take care to him.

Oj doesn't want to kill me! Just kidding, thank you for being understanding.

Anyhow,

Mod, please replace me.

I apologize to everyone, but I think it's necessary for this game. I'm sure things will clear up for me in a week and I'll regret not staying, but c'est la vie.

[UncertainKitten]

Sorry VP...hope things get better :S.

[Zorblag]

@Gammagooey, you're right in that giving an analysis Jack doesn't contradict the unwillingness to give a full list of reads. On the other hand, a contradiction there wasn't what bothered me. I'm bothered by the fact that the reason he gave for not wanting to give a full list of reads was that it helps scum for town to give their town reads and that the first read he then proceeded to give was a town read. He does start his post by saying that he thought Jack was scummy when he started the read and then moved to town (though the move seems to have been because Jack largely kept doing the things he had been doing at the start) but, really I was expecting a first case that involved who he thought was scum when he posted it.

As for the case on RedCoyote, it doesn't do much to convince me that he's hit scum but I'm happy enough with it as insight into what Phate is likely to find worth posting about in the future. Maybe a 4 as a case and a 6 as a post?

@VP Baltar, good luck getting through the week then. I'll look forward to the next game we're in together.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[farside22]

Alright I'm behind and today is mothers day. I just got thru Phate's post and was more impressed with it but would like links for town and scum games for comparison to look at later.

For now

##unvote
##vote: pops

[zoraster]

Day 1 Vote Count

charter ( 0 )
Cobalt ( 0 )
d3x ( 0 )
Debonair Danny DiPietro ( 0 )
DrippingGoofball ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 3 ) Ellibereth DrippingGoofball Parama
Gammagooey ( 1 ) Jack
imaginality ( 0 )
Jack ( 2 ) d3x RedCoyote
StrangerCoug ( 0 )
LLamaFluff ( 0 )
Nicodemus ( 0 )
ojanen ( 0 )
Parama ( 0 )
phate ( 3 ) VP Baltar Shotty to the Body imaginality
popsofctown ( 4 ) xvart Debonair Danny DiPietro Zorblag farside22
RedCoyote ( 1 ) phate
Shotty to the Body ( 0 )
UncertainKitten ( 0 )
VP Baltar ( 1 ) charter
xvart ( 5 ) LLamaFluff ojanen Nicodemus fishythefish UncertainKitten
Zorblag ( 1 ) Cobalt
Not Voting ( 3 ) StrangerCoug popsofctown Gammagooey
Total Votes ( 24 )

Deadline: May 18th at 11:00 EDT
With 24 able to vote, 13 needed to lynch.

A replacement is being sought for VP Baltar.

[Jack]

Right about the math doesn't mean not-scum.

[Nicodemus]

bleh, this game moves fast.

I feel better about xvart, and worse about pops.

##unvote
## vote: pops

[Parama]

##unvote
##vote: Cobalt

[popsofctown]

Lurkerhunting does look good.

vote: Cobalt

Scream hypocrisy all you want, my actions are independent of whether lurking is a bad thing in general.

[Jack]

Cobalt is not posting in at least 2 other games.