Mafia 113: Mafia in Mendo ~ Game Over

[Diacria]

Chno = town

[MehPlusRawr]

I'm back from my V/LA.

Diacria- Why do you want to wagon Nico?

[dramonic]

Dram seems fluffier than normal.

How fluffy is normal?

[chnorek]

boberz - could be scumbuddy with Jack, i can feel some connection here. Was very active on D1 but after that less and less.
CMAR - reasonable votes, and nice ISO 13. ends up with quite a few suspects on D3, maybe just in case?
Nicodemus - null tell. playing safe, afraid for his own life? could be just a lurker or a scum, i cant say yet.
Diacra - i will skip D1 and D2 here. Nice wagon list (town). Changing opinion a lot without explaining reasons (scum). ISO-63 (very town). Overall town.
dramonic - just another contentless person. null-tell.

What about CCAR's defense do you find slightly scummy chnorek?

If we accept his defense and wont lynch him today then we cant lynch him at all, he will bring it tommorow again. Lynch or vig but he needs to die in my opinion.

[Nicodemus]

I think we're all just falling into the trap of "let the vig take care of them." That works for a while (Furc) but eventually we're going to have to start actually questioning those worthy of vigging and get them to participate. I've heard calls for at least 3 different people to get vigged today, and that's really the wrong way to go about things. We should be lynching the scummiest players, not waiting for the vig to take care of them.

I still really want a Raven wagon, his lurking is inexcusable. I would also be happy with a dramonic or boberz wagon.

[Jack]

Nico is scummy. "quit saying we should vig these lurkers who I wanted to mislynch" is what he sounds like.

[MehPlusRawr]

Nico, do you have any comment on Diacria attempting to push a wagon on you?

[chnorek]

Jack this is one of the longest and best posts you have made so far. Where is this change coming from?

MPR building competitive wagons is the only defense you are going to use?

[MehPlusRawr]

vote:MehPlus

I'd dropped him for actually putting up a decent case on CCA. But thinking about he really only put it up after I pointed out that he wasn't pushing his CCA case at all.

I'm terribly lazy. I had meant to do that earlier but didn't. Similarly as to how I meant to respond to this earlier.

The other mark against him comes from my reread of the deer claim. MehPlus was the competing wagon, and the when the deer wagon started to die bv softclaimed his watcher role, pushing the deer wagon. Feel I get from him was that he was interested in finding a wagon other than MehPlus. bv never mentions mehplus even though he does comment on deer. Early on he votes furc but unvotes him saying something about him being a VI and there not being much of a case. Later when the deer wagon dies he drops deer down to #2 and claims Furc is by far the most suspicious.

I can't defend myself against that first accusation as it's entirely based on what Bv did. However, I know that scum do attempt to buddy with townies, so when they flip, the townies will get lynched.

Yes, I realized that Furc was acting stupid and not scummy. Where exactly did I claim that Furc is by far the most suspicious? I don't remember doing that.

CCA is continuing to blatantly OMGUS me... I am not happy with him in the least. CCA, who are you suspicious of? Also, if you can't dedicate the time to this game, you should consider replacing out.

[Jack]

That was BV still.

Your suspicion of me seems to have totally disappeared for no reason. It was fake. You are scum.

[MehPlusRawr]

No, just saving you until later, I'd prefer a CCA lynch today.

[Jack]

No, that's a lie. I've had back and forths about things with people who think I'm scum before. You don't sound like them. You sound like scum who knows I'm innocent.

[chnorek]

What's with the 'just passing by' comment?

dont be sure to state your opinion on mpr.

Not sure what this is meant to mean.

"passing by" because i was going to bed.
second one was a typo, "dont" shoudnt be there.

Mind sharing more details on Diacria case?

[RichardGHP]

Nico: Though both lynching AND vigging sum-like players is efficient, no?

MPR: Why do you prefer CCARaven over Jack? If you have equivocal suspicions on both of them, you have no reason to go from one to the other. Especially from Jack to Raven.

958 is full of WIFOM

OMGUS's are, in all honesty, extremely rare (If you can link me to one example of a REAL OMGUS I would be surprised) and often conflicting votes are declared OMGUS no matter how valid the votes in question are. MPR, you have been acting very scum-like, and so, even though Raven voted you, it's not OMGUS.

[Nicodemus]

Nico: Though both lynching AND vigging sum-like players is efficient, no?

True, but when the vote count looks like this:

3 ~ MehPlusRawr (RichardGHP, CCARaven4, Jack)
3 ~ CCARaven4 (MehPlusRawr, Nicodemus, chnorek)
1 ~ Jack (dramonic)
1 ~ CryMeARiver (boberz)
1 ~ Nicodemus (Diacria)
1 ~ Diacria (Chronopie)

Not Voting: CryMeARiver

and the top two candidates have both been called good vig targets, it gives people an out from taking a stand and giving their opinions on people. Someone could sit here all day long and say "vig M+R" "vig Raven" "vig whoever they darn well please", and no one would call them out on it because it would look like they were contributing to the deaths of scummy people. But if we don't get people to commit to voting for those scummy people, then it's a great way for scum to push easy mislynches (because they only need to convince one person, the vig, of peoples' scumminess instead of half the town) and to refrain from contributing to lynches during the day.

mod edit:

I changed the formating of this vote count, so as to keep it legal per Post Guideline #2.

[CryMeARiver]

If it makes you feel any better at all, I have a gut scumread on CCA. It probably doesn't.

So why WOULD you lynch him? If he posted something suspicious? Well, if not posting at all isn't suspicious, he can just lurk for the rest of the game and not get lynched. If we vote for him and he starts scumhunting, then we have a new active player, if not, he's probably scum.

God this is bugging the hell out of me. Mainly because you are absolutely right. I still don't find lurking and meta as the best scumtells, but based on the fact that he's known to be more active as town, I think he deserves at least SOME pressure.

Vote: Raven

I don't know; my biggest inclination is that if MPR flips scum, he would be trying to get rid of Raven because he was of no use to his team, and the case would by him some town creds if Raven flipped scum in the process. MPR is probably looking at it like "My buddy's going to get lynched anyway so I might as well lead the lynch to make myself look townie afterwards.". That's pretty in-line with newb-scum's thought rational.

I love how people always automatically assume worst case scenario when they are tunneling. Ever think of the possibility that, though he is a noob, he is actually trying? Sure, we can't discount the fact of possible scummates bussing, but the fact that you think that much into speculation is ridiculous.
Your tunneling on Meh is noted.

Other than policy I don't really see a case on Raven. I think we should just leave him to the vig (if there is one). Raven's death is beneficial either way, while M+R's death is only beneficial if he is scum. I don't see us getting much information from a town-flip (unlikely).

This is very confusing. You are promoting a Meh lynch very hard, yet you think there is a chance of him not being scum, and even it not being beneficial at all. Yet, you think a Raven death is beneficial to us either way, but you don't support his lynch.
Also, it is bad for town to get the mindset of having a vig. This "vig" could easily be a serial killer who wants to look like a vig so he has a safe claim later. Please don't learn to depend on this possible third party killer. If you think he's scummy, vote him, push his lynch, don't depend on him being night killed.

I support a CCRaven lynch, but I dont support the living of its voters.

Say what??? I can see it playing out later if Raven flips town:
Dramonic: Hey look, I wasn't on the townie wagon
Someone: What in the world made you think he was town?
Dramonic: I didn't, see, I suspected him here!
Someone: Then why didn't you vote him...
Dramonic: He flipped town! I didn't vote him! Get off my case!

Also, how do you propose lynching him without voting him? Answer this question:

So why WOULD you lynch him? If he posted something suspicious? Well, if not posting at all isn't suspicious, he can just lurk for the rest of the game and not get lynched. If we vote for him and he starts scumhunting, then we have a new active player, if not, he's probably scum.

However, I still don't think that lynching me is a good idea, because it doesn't give much information. If I was a lurking scum or lurking town, MPR's case against me was just that I was lurking and it would be a policy lynch, proving nothing about anybody else's alignment, just getting rid of a lurker. On the other hand, lynching MPR, who has been active a lot, would give us much information on the alignments of sirdanilot and Jack, who have been voting for MPR for a few days now.

WIFOM harder please. I find it funny how you pull the "Even if I flipped scum, my lynch would not give town any information." Never speculate about yourself being scum.


@Possible Vig: Be very careful tonight, actually, I don't know if I'd even shoot as a misshoot could mean a loss for town if we take a mislynch/poison/mafia NK into account.
@Possible SK: Hit scum tonight

[Chronopie]

@Possible Vig: Hit scum tonight
@Possible SK: Hit scum tonight

fix'd

[Ythill]

• The Consensus
  
  
• 4 ~ CCARaven4 (MehPlusRawr, Nicodemus, chnorek, CryMeARiver)
  
• 3 ~ MehPlusRawr (RichardGHP, CCARaven4, Jack)
  
• 1 ~ Jack (dramonic)
  
• 1 ~ CryMeARiver (boberz)
  
• 1 ~ Nicodemus (Diacria)
  
• 1 ~ Diacria (Chronopie)
  
• Not Voting:

• Gardening Tips
  
  
• If I get too stoned to post (or whatever) PM ani for assistance.
  
• D3 Prod Count: greenindirt (1), Nicodemus (1), CCARaven4 (1).
  
• Overall Prod Count: CCARaven4 (2), dramonic (1), greenindirt (1), Nicodemus (1).
  
• With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. The deadline is May 14, 19:00 PDT (GMT-7).

[Diacria]

I need to figure out exactly why Nico is scum.
Could you guys hop on. It would help.

[chnorek]

L-2 on CCAR, dont lynch by accident, give him chance to post.

[CryMeARiver]

@Possible Vig: Hit scum tonight
@Possible SK: Hit scum tonight

fix'd

Seriously though, vig misshot could result in town loss. I don't think they should shoot at all unless we have another bv310 obvscum case, which isn't looking so at the moment.

[dramonic]

Also, how do you propose lynching him without voting him? Answer this question:

What I meant is although I don't like CCRaven, I dont like either Nico or MPR.

[CCARaven4]

Nicodemus - null tell. playing safe, afraid for his own life? could be just a lurker or a scum, i cant say yet.

What is different between what I have been doing and this description? How do you get a null tell from Nico but a scum tell from me?

CCA is continuing to blatantly OMGUS me... I am not happy with him in the least. CCA, who are you suspicious of? Also, if you can't dedicate the time to this game, you should consider replacing out.

You brought yourself to my attention, I don't see that as OMGUSing. I am suspicious of you for a legitimate reason: You wanting to lynch lurkers is a scumtell, imo.

No, just saving you until later, I'd prefer a CCA lynch today.

Somebody else already asked this, but why me first? What happened that made you pick me to be the first and let Jack play another day? Is it because you're hoping that I flip scum so you gain some traction and can get a Jack lynch, because you definitely couldn't get one today? But I can't flip scum because you already know who your scumbuddies are and I'm not one of them, so you're gonna have to hope I flip SK, if there even is one in this game, in order to gain any sort of ability to convince people that you know what you're doing in this game. And if I get lynched and flip VT, you're gonna be stuck with nowhere to go, because at that point, nobody will believe you if you say Jack is scum, because you said the same thing about me.

[MehPlusRawr]

CCA, after SHM 2.5, where literally 80% of the scum were lurkers, I'd say that wanting to lynch lurkers isn't a scumtell. Especially when you were one of the lurking scum there.

You ignored my question- who are you suspicious of?

Because I have a large gutread on you, CCA.

[CCARaven4]

MPR, I replaced out of SHM 2.5 on the very first day, because I had no time for it. Of course I was lurking, I didn't have the time to play the game at all, so I replaced out, and yes, I was the Mafia Godfather who didn't post much, but that was a much different situation than this.

I answered your question--you. I'm suspicious of you.

I don't have much of a gutread on you, but I actually look at your actions and think you're scum.