mini 943- Greek Mythology! (And the winner is... ?)

[Andrius]

Alright. So they're probably accurate, since they're limited in number.


Sacred Saga? I did some research way back at close of D1.
Wiki Article
It says, in the wiki: "These Saints have sworn to defend the reincarnation of the

Greek goddess Athena in her battle against the other Olympian gods who want to dominate Earth

."
I mean, this conjecture is only as valueable as saying Ares is scum due to the game God of War, but still. Its worth pointing out.

[Iecerint]

Well, slightly more valuable since it comes from the Mod, though.

[Plum]

To preface this: Sorry for my absence, couldn't stay awake at all Thursday night, Bio AP coming up &c. (and SATs tomorrow morning as well).

Okay, so lemme get this straight.

Innocent Investigation/Claimed Masonhood = Off the Table for Now

Ooba
Alm
Iecerint
SD
Flava
Andrius

At first glance that makes it a good choice for a fake claim, of course. How ever, a fake claim of an existingrole provokes a counter claim - that is unless Alma is Scum and Ares is scum but nor Alma is not Ares...

Yeah, or the Mod provided safeclaims (that is, told the scum a few charcters he deliberately left out of the game). That's always my first assumption in games like these. Ooba's claim that he at one point hada Vig ability hold a lot more weight, in my opinion.

@Iece, SD: Are you both Masons? Your soft claiming and following each other is neither here nor there. Any good scum would have been able to spot this on Day 1. Is your alignment confirmed to each other?

Weirdest. Post. Evar. Seriously, who saw that one coming/who would want to try to out masons if he thought he saw them? If you're Town and you see this, you shut up; there's generally no good to be gained from it if you're right. If you're scum, well . . . I could see rolefishing value in it. The fact that I can only see scum motivation for such a thing is bad bad bad. And considering Ooba's prior claim - rolecop? And then again LC claims he protected Ooba, which may account for lack of kills which would point to Town/not a specific type of scum Ooba. And of course he's Athena, which seems fairly Town for all intents and purposes. Doubt that he has a power which could cause him to be revealed as a role he isn't. Nevermind, I'd forgotten some of this, so throwing Ooba into list of players-not-to-lynch today.

The fact that they are both majorly protecting alma is looking bad right now.

Well, if they're confirmed-to-one-another Masons and one has an investigation on Alm, it would kinda make sense.

I'd be more likely to be on something like 3:1:8 than 2:2:8 but that's just me.

Iece said him and SD are alignment confirmed masons. A quick question from a newer player: how likely is it that scum try to pass themselves off as masons? It seems like it would be a good idea, but I haven't played in many non-newbie games here yet, so I wouldn't know. (This is my first non-newbie game I got into.)

Might work okay in the short term; long-term it's a huge gamble most scumbags wouldn't want to try; it takes courage, luck, and lots of attention to detail to pull off. Offhand I can't remember an instance of scum even attempting it.

Needless to say, I'm kind of worried that the masons might be a cult. Mafia to a lesser degree, unless someone tells me the likelyhood of mafia claiming masons.

Again, not a major concern (especially given that the leader would need a Night 0/pregame recruit ability to be confident in pulling off the fakeclaims). I'll start being concerned if one mason dies and flips non-Town or neither of them die for a long time and people claim to have not protected them or whatnot. Anyway, which of the gods would be a Cult Leader, anyway?

If we want to keep our noses out of both claimers and claimees, at first glance I'd vote Joh over Jack. Had some bad feelings on Joh yesterday but felt all right overall about Jack, Town-on-Town vibes on the very early Jack/Iec argument.

But perhaps we should look into LC's alignment, because its not feasibly hard for a mafia to claim Cop, and prove their scumbuddy innocent.

Or claim an innocent on a true innocent and look the Townier for it when all's said and done.

All things being equal, we'd rather lynch claimees over people claimed to be Town. Scum might/might not lie about results. However, between possible Cop Insanity and Godfather(s). I'd have to think about the utility of putting claimers as well as claimees into the 'we're not touching these today' pool or not.

I can't tell what's meant with this Wiki article Andrius linked to/this 'Sacred Saga' stuff.

Unvote; Vote: Joh

Until further rereads on Jack and anyone else we're not touching with a 12-fott pole today.

[Andrius]

Innocent Investigation/Claimed Masonhood = Off the Table for Now
Ooba

Not so.
Ooba is not town-confirmed.

Or claim an innocent on a true innocent and look the Townier for it when all's said and done.

True. And since Iece/SD don't have an investigation anymore, and LC doesn't either, it comes down to Ooba, I guess, unless someone else has one-shot abilities.

I can't tell what's meant with this Wiki article Andrius linked to/this 'Sacred Saga' stuff.

Iece asked about the "Sacred Saga" writing on the side of the picture of Athena, so I looked it up and provided info. If we knew that all the pics were 'Sacred Saga' style, then we could infer, through the wiki, that Athena might be anti-town.
This is, again, as likely as condemning Alm to death just because Ares is a bad guy in God of War.

[Iecerint]

^ Nah, I dunno. Several of the Olympian Gods are on Athena's team, and she's the protagonist, and Hades and Poseidon are the antagonists. KIND OF LIKE OOBA'S HYPOTHESIZED VERSION OF THIS GAME.

/drunkpost

[Flava Flave]

One in the mason pair is a scum even though the other one thinks he knows the alignments of his partner (this one actually calls for some serious bastard modding, but still feels relevant to say, since, as mentioned above, two masons with confirmed alignment plus sane investigative roles are too good for town in a balanced setup).

I'd discount this if their role PMs specifically say they are confirmed.

Iec/Shadow, is this the case?

If so, and one is still scum, we are looking at a terrible Mod. I doubt it. If one/both are scum, it's a fakeclaim entirely or the role PMs don't specifically say confirmed town.

Why do you want me lynched in 691 where you, in the same post, state that Jack and Plum are the best lynches, and then keep your vote on Plum. Who do you find best to lynch right now and, more importantly, why?

I'd prefer Plum, who I actually find scummy and have said why, over anyone else.

By process of elimination, I'd like to lynch you or Jack. Preferably Jack because I have a town read on you based on your play.

I like Ooba as scum, but no one seems willing to lynch him. If I were a dayvig, he'd already be dead.

You contradicted yourself. In the first paragraph you ruled me out b/c of SD's investigation, and then you say that its down to Jack and Joh and Plum, and we might as well lump LC in there too, since he hasn't been confirmed by someone else.
In the second paragraph you then say that we shouldn't treat investigations as 100%.

Nah, you aren't following.

I don't think you are the right play today until we have more information.

I don't trust the investigations completely. But I think we can use some info we get later to make a good decision.

For example, let's say we find out someone is insane. In that case, we know to take the opposite of the results they are getting. If that happens, we can lynch someone who they got an innocent on. Just one of many possibilities where holding off on the "innocents" is a good idea.

[ooba]

- Why did I assume Masons if I thought it was 2:2:8?
They started defending themselves too early and too explicitly to be scum. It started with Page 3. In fact Iece's first post after getting his role PM included the smiley which indicated that it was ironic he was voting SD at that time.

Regarding my mason shout-out ..
- I needed to know if they were alignment confirmed to each other. And the best time to do that is now since I had a feeling they might get the ax tonight; Iece had made it quite obvious to the scum by saying he'll claim later if needed
- It also keeps the scum guessing about killing em(read investigative roles like Watcher and protective roles like doc)
- A protown person might also have the Vig ability which Alma lost. A lot of people considered SD suspicious on D1. This eliminates the possibility of a town vig shooting any of these two.

But you said that Hades is probably GF. Here's a scenario: let's say VV was Hades. Ooba, being scum, knowing this, could have hammered VV to ensure that Hades' counter did not fall into Town hands.

If there are two teams, I can only see his scum partner knowing for sure that he was hades. And as I've being saying from D1, we should have the most townie person hammer - not just any random person. One of the claimed masons should hammer today.

Maybe Hades' counter automatically rolls over to his scumbuddy, to lenghten the game.

Seems unfair to the town.

I doubt that any of the gods/goddesses would work with Hades, from the 12.

I do not think that its just the 12 gods in this game. (This is not role info but from another source. Will explain later if I catch a fake claim).

And the best way to know that there are two scum teams is if you ARE scum with only one buddy. That's also the best way to be able to speculate on what roles each scum group has.

Most of my deductions are based on OP and intuitive reasoning based on how the mod might design certain elements.

Ooba didn't quite claim Cop; he can see what players' abilities are. But I think he's pretty much cleared for hammering VV yesterday. The only way he could be scum is if he can target Normals and Supers as a day ability, and he did VV D1 and Alma D3.

Cannot be a day ability since Alma mentioned he lost his power at the end of N2. Hence I would have seen his new(?) normal power. I also said I could see supers of Alma.

Speaking of that -- ooba, you know someone else's Normal, too, right? Don't reveal it or who, just whether.

I'd rather not answer this right now.

And as I think I've said before role names aren't the same as alignment.

Fair enough. Hades is an exception since he is most definitely anti-town.

Vote: Joh

[ooba]

Andruis has just quoted the main page.

Athena is the main protagonist in the show:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athena_%28Saint_Seiya%29

And "Poseidon's Mariners" and "Hades' Heralds" are listed in the antagonist section.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sa ... characters

Addn: I just realized that this is what Iece was saying above

Not sure how relevant it is though.

Also I am not sure what brought about this anti-ooba wave all of the sudden. I do think its because scum realize we can now eliminate most of the people since they are mostly town and will concentrate on them. (e.g: Joh with his comment on maybe it's a bastard modded game with one mason being told the other is alignment confirmed but still one of em is scum)

[Iecerint]

I still love you, ooba. <3

[Johoohno]

All right, two things have been cleared from my side since my post 692

• Sanity seems to be more likely than not
  
• Masons town alignment seems to be more likely than not.

I don’t feel that the issues of a scum-ooba and scum-alma has been addressed yet though.

[Iecerint]

The probability of oobascum is very very low. If ooba is scum, I congratulate him on his brilliant D1 gambit and on his win.

[Shadow Dancer]

OK, I'm back and di some quick reading. I will do a complete read tomorrow and add my stuff. Just way too tired from an awesome yet exhausting weekend trip.

Which Gambit, Iec? That he offered to hammer on VV?

However, I would not frivolously rulke out the possibility of an bastard mod. All those investigation skills in one game, even with some one shot ones, is a lot of information that can be gathered by town, especially if you count in that double night thing. There must be some ugly conclusion behind this which I cannoit right now put my finger on...

[Iecerint]

Yes.

There're probably some bus drivers (functional GFs) and GFs among the scum.

[ooba]

N2:
LC protects ooba

N3:
Ice investigates AlGm - Town-aligned
SD investigates Andruis - Town-aligned
LC investigates FF - Town-aligned
Ooba knows AlGm has (had?) a Vig ability

Thoughts:
- Not the masons: They are town
- From my PoV, I am town
- About AlGm: He was not lying about his ability on D1 (my claim) and Ice has an innocent on him. That's two positives to back him up. (even counting GF possibility) He should not be the play for today.

- If you assume all investigations are true, you get a scum team of Joh, Jack, Plum but I am less inclined to believe that since
a) It goes against my 2:2:8 theory since that it what I believe the setup is
b) Too many investigations (and plus the fact that VV was a cop) point to GF-type roles

- LC is prob. town. His doc protect seems to be genuine. And his concern for FF at L-2 also seemed genuine.

- So that leaves Andr, FF, Joh, Jack and Plum. I would rather lynch one of the other three than Andr or FF since they have one positive (read investigation) to back em up. Out of the other three, I have a town read on Plum, neutral on Jack and a strong scum read on Joh.

Hence why vote for Joh and why I think he should be the play for today.

[ooba]

ebwop: Above should read N1,N2 ..

[ooba]

Also, Joh, you're at L-2, think its time you claimed ..

[Andrius]

I need to

V/LA Today and Tomorrow

.
Should have done it sooner though.

@ DeathNote:

And who's getting replaced? AlmasterGM? I saw it in the Mini Theme Queue.

I'm moving, so I'll be packing/driving today/tomorrow, so I won't be on- as far as I can tell.

[Shadow Dancer]

Must be Alma, he's been inactive for quite a while now.

I am no longer sure how trustworthy LC's claim is. Could be bold scum defending his ally...

[Shadow Dancer]

@FF: Too state it clearly once and for all, Iec and I are

confirmed town

masons. No doubt about that.

How ever, I am still not convinced of your innocence and still throwing suspicions around with reasoning oscillating between weak and non at all (now against Jack and Plum) does no help that fact. If you in deed find them suspicious for other reasons than either exclusion or simple waggon hopping I would like you to bring up a solid case against at least one of your so called suspects.

[Iecerint]

Actually, I just realized that two scumteams are more common than I prior thought they would be. Maybe some of us can only scumcheck certain scumteams? Just another possibility. [/outguess]

[LordChronos]

Posting from prod. Sorry for my inactivity, I have gotten bogged down with AP exam work.

[Shadow Dancer]

I do not think that that "sacred saga" stuff is of any use, I think DN just used random web finds or something like that for the pictures. My role picture is also on Photobucket (maybe DN fopund it there, but as well he might have uploaded it himself), but not related to "sacred saga". I think this is a dead end in mod-outguessing...

Can we agree on Joh as lynchee? I am not too sure right now, because his case is based mostly on exclusion of other suspects and a small portion of gut feeling, not only for me, as far as I can tell. No one brought up a solid case so far... If we can agree on him nonetheless, we should L-1 him quickly, so we can react to his claim. If not, we should seriously shift focus on Plum/Jack/LC (LC as claimee is more suspicious than FF).

By the way, thanks Joh for your explanatioj on the link issue. I think I understand the syntax now, will try it soon...

Another clarification: Both Iec's and my investigatio were one shot and not our powers (our powers are both mason, obviously) but had some relation to the occurence of that extra night.

[Iecerint]

Oh, I didn't even have a picture in my PM, so I thought it might be a on-reveal-only thing. Too bad.

JHH gave me bad vibes yesterday, especially early yesterday. I share your feelings about LC and FF, though.

[Shadow Dancer]

I also had "bad vibes", more precisely I had an uncertain feeling that he was asking too many questions, faking intense scum hunting, but drawing to few conclusions and hardly taking stances. However, upon reread I could not significantly validate my feelings or stretch them into a concrete case. I still have that uncertain feeling, though, and think that Joh is acting exactly as a good scum player might act... Still with less than one week left we should either have Joh claim soon or find another good wagon to start rolling right away.

[Iecerint]

DN just send me an image with my role. He said he didn't send it before only because I replaced in. It's Sacred Saga-themed.