Mini 963: Furry Mafia (Game over!)

[FakeGod]

LOLOLOLLOL OMGUS
FakeGod, you claim to make any argument against you fall apart yet you have done little to prove why we're wrong and you're right - you're just repeating the same things over and over even if it's not what you're being accused of. Nothing you have said has convinced me that I'm wrong, so I will continue to hold my vote as long as you continue to be the scummiest player here.

Parama, please re-list your case against me. I answered to everything you accused me of I believe.

[Parama]

You already know my answer to your question.
I love how you're accusing people of being scum and then not acting upon it in any way. Votes? FoSes? Have a reason to accuse someone of being scum before you accuse them, please.

[Parama]

LOLOLOLLOL OMGUS
FakeGod, you claim to make any argument against you fall apart yet you have done little to prove why we're wrong and you're right - you're just repeating the same things over and over even if it's not what you're being accused of. Nothing you have said has convinced me that I'm wrong, so I will continue to hold my vote as long as you continue to be the scummiest player here.

Parama, please re-list your case against me. I answered to everything you accused me of I believe.

You answered it but your answers were not satisfying and I don't believe everything you've said. And if you really want me to add to it, you've been contradicting yourself frequently, accusing people without reason, and backtracking.

[InflatablePie]

Problem is that Brandi is town and FakeGod is scum so even though the logic is good there's some sort of fallacy in it that I have yet to find.

The problem is that at first he seemed to be assuming "these two people are scum so that's why they did this". I think that's the fallacy you're looking for.

And he still hasn't addressed that, or I keep missing it. I know, he gave reasons for both of them being scummy on their own (Brandi tunneling and FG's "appealing"-thing), but the problem is Brandi is town as of now and we have bigger fish to fry than FG right now, IMO.

I had something else to say, but I'm in a rush to get to work and can't remember. This is where it would have gone.

[FakeGod]

Navy, be serious. Do you really think I'm scum? Are you sure enough to bet your life (mafia life) on it?

LOLOLOLOL OMGUS
FakeGod, you claim to make any argument against you fall apart yet you have done little to prove why we're wrong and you're right - you're just repeating the same things over and over even if it's not what you're being accused of. Nothing you have said has convinced me that I'm wrong, so I will continue to hold my vote as long as you continue to be the scummiest player here.

Where's the OMGUS in there? unless you're referring to (mafia life). Then you misunderstood. I meant mafia, as in the game of mafia, because I didn't want to be seem like I was gonna actually go kill him in RL or something. I meant, whether he had the guts to willingly be lynched if I were to be lynched and flipped town. Same question goes to you Parama.

And I don't even know what you're referring to. Weren't we talking about my posts before Navy posted? please tell me anything I missed in your case, and I'll be sure to give you a response.

[Parama]

Okay I will admit that was a miscommunication.
Silly question to ask, but yes I'm pretty damn sure you're scum. If you flip town then I have failed at scumhunting. But betting my life in the game upon it? That's not a promise I can follow through with, because - believe it or not - in mafia sometimes townies get lynched. And should every player on a ML be lynched for being on the ML wagon? If that were the case then towns would never win mafia.
But you're scum so this is irrelevant.

[FakeGod]

You post when I'm typing, and vice-verca

You answered it but your answers were not satisfying and I don't believe everything you've said. And if you really want me to add to it, you've been contradicting yourself frequently, accusing people without reason, and backtracking.

Um, tell me who I accused of being scum. And please explain my contradictions. And I don't know what the term backtracking mean in Mafia, but if you're saying that I went back to explain my previous posts, then of course. Is it unnatural for me to do so? I was accused, and I responded. We just happened to be talking about my RVS posts. Nothing complicated.

[StrangerCoug]

VOTE COUNT

Brandi (3): Antiximo, broomhead, Zang
Espeonage (3): InflatablePie, Fate, DocPotter
FakeGod (5): Fugitive, Parama, NavyCherub, Brandi, Espeonage
Not voting (1): FakeGod

With

12

players alive, it takes

7

players to lynch.

[FakeGod]

well in one and only newbie game I played here, the town managed to lynch right twice in a row, but yeah I know that townies do get lynched.

My question was how sure do you think I'm scum. To the point where you would life gamble? And you answered with, "no".

[FakeGod]

-Off-Topic-
Sorry for my naviete, but how does WIFOM work? I've seen it mentioned in many games in online mafia. I read the wiki, but it really didn't make sense to me. >.<

Example of WIFOM that someone gave me: there's a robber running away from a cop, and he could choose to run away to road A, where it's dark and he might not be found if the cop searches there, and road B, where it's really well-lit and he will surely be found if the cop searches there.

Robber should run to road A, because robber cannot influence which way cop might take, robber should maximize the chance that he will not be found whenever it's in his control to do so.

Am I wrong? I'm so confused....... I never even heard of WIFOM before I came to online mafia. >.<

[Zang]

@Zang: Please read recent posts to finish your analysis. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now that you just weren't fully caught up. But everything you have stated has already been addressed.

ok, ill go do another analysis

[Antiximo]

GOOD EVENING MY FELLOW FURRY ANIMALS

After you guys have relaxed yourself from a day of heated conversation, I would like for you all to take the time to look at my long and (kind of) thorough re-read of everyone. I am going to start from person to person based on how the list is written on page 1.

So here we go!

Lo and Behold!

Brandi

will be the first person under the spotlight in today's show of "Antiximo rages on people for no reason!" Our guess Brandi here, has had quite a truffle with our dashingly good-looking show host, Antiximo.

But let's start before this even happens.

Hello everyone, I can't say I recognize any of your names, but my memory is pretty terrible so if I may have just forgotten some of you. I'm totally ready for this game as I have my fursona as my avatar

Oh how cute, she gives us all a kind heart-felt welcome, I feel butterflies in my stomach.

Makes me want to hurl.

Also

FOS:

Antiximo for this post:

Well what do you know! The first thing she does in the RVS stage is FoS me in serious terms! So the first thing she does of importance is in fact, rain on my question barrage.

Let's take a moment and think about the scenario, every post before this

(in exclusion to one post, which I will comment on in another time.)

has been very flimsy, uninformed, and overall jokish. Why does she bring up a post that could potentially be just as flimsy and uninformed (in fact, it was for the time being) as useless? She has no reason to. After wondering why she would do this, I could only see her as being quick to cling on the first thing as being potentially scummy.

Not a good start.

But I'm going to be unbiased for a moment, and say that she was doing this, for the sake of helping town get away from meaningless conversation.

Let's continue.

That's nice. If you didn't beleive it was serious then why the defensive attitude?

Brandi is once again meddling in things that are generally uninformed or joking manners. However, let's see what she's getting from this. She does make some good points again Parama, and gets him on the ropes, which I commend her for, however I'm commenting on scummy remarks, not town .

From page 2, I'm getting a town read on her, however my bias towards her interrupting my questioning in RVS clouded my insight. Let's continue to see if the scumminess comes back.

But you see, I see no reason to explain myself to someone who I think is scum.

I would generally think that you're explaining to TOWN, why someone is scummy, not to scum themselves. Generally that's when you have a good enough that you feel it's lynch worthy. You apparently don't have this case yet.

The next amounts of post release pressure from Parama, and contacts people like myself, Fakegod, and others. Then she brings up the Parama Case in full fashion.

On the first page Parama makes a statement about how he didn't want to see anyone mention meta. That is a bad for the fact that he is trying to lord some sort of authority over the town. Just because he says it is wrong doesn't make it so- many people have different opinions on the matter and it looks like he wants to use that as an excuse to lynch someone later on by saying "HEY I SAID NO META HERE YOU MUST BE SCUM!"

The fact the person feels adamant about metagaming being bad, isn't something that should be problematic to you. What I'm particularly noticing about this statement was it's something you didn't notice from the get-go. It seems as if you went back to read Parama again, and scraped up some filler information to make his scumminess look more scummy. I might be wrong of course about this.

First of all, there is absolutely NO evidence you can gain from such a post to consider Espe to be town at that point. Even if you had played with him before, a random vote like that would not be sufficient.

This comment is also odd, the fact that she's bringing this up as valid evidence, when we are still in RVS mind you, is quite silly. I can (from my POV) tell from a mile away this accusation of espeonage being town is a joke. This just shows Brandi

once again

scraping for fillers.

But it is also scummy in GENERAL because scum KNOW who the town are and could call ANYONE TOWN for ANYTHING. The fact that he felt the need to label someone town this early makes me think he is potentially setting up for something to go back to later on.

This quote is generally responded to by my previous comment.

The response about buddying

From Brandi's POV, she's hit the damn jackpot in scumhunting. I'm not going to lie, even in my eyes the post from Parama to Fate (along with Fate continuing on to vote Brandi) threw some red flags. It was a polar opposite to Parama's mood before.

I wouldn't know what is usual for him, and I don't really care at this point. I'm not sure where you get this over-reacting idea- Perhaps you haven't read my posts thoroughly. If anything, I am over-analyzing- which there is nothing wrong with that. Parama is being scummy, I pointed out his scumminess. It doesn't have much to do with his over confidence as much as it has to do with his hypocrisy.

I don't see emotion in any of Brandi's posts thus far. However I do see many posts where she miscommunicates with others and causes disgruntled feelings towards other players. Even then she has the nuts to apologize for her mistakes and continue onwards with scumhunting.

We are reaching the last page (page 6) of Brandi's read. Let's see what silliness she has here.

At first I had thought "buddying everybody just makes it a null tell" But now I understand- and you are right. vote: FakeGod

Brandi completely drops Parama for the rest of the page, and votes FakeGod.

I'm thrown off by this due to.
1) Parama, was from Brandi's POV scum, why would she so quickly look into 'scum's' FoS when to her it shouldn't be important?
2) She no longer responds to any of the quarrelling that goes on.
3) She has had no contact or any thought of FakeGoD (perhaps too headstrung over Parama).

TL;DR BRANDI - I'm getting mixed thoughts about her, she felt very town giving a relatively solid case against Parama. The problem I have however is that she dropped the case quickly and allowed Parama to do so as well, and sheeped Parama's FoS on FakeGod with no questions asked.


interlude
----

Now, next in line in the

Antiximo rages for no reason~!

show. We have Broomhead.

I personally haven't seen very much conversation from him, so i'm excited to do a re-read on him, along with many other people here .

I would like to start off by saying that Broomhead didn't post until page 4, because of this I will have to read extremely deeply into his post I will usually be getting null-reads on people like this.

I'm sorry I seem to have just missed the random voting phase, *sigh* one of my favorites. I am fairly firm that a

Vote: Brandi

needs to happen. Heres why: She's too much of a go-getter. A tad too hyped up if you will, emotions seem to be all across the board. Therefore, she has too much invested in the first day vote and seems a general scumminess. But hey, neither in sun nor rain wind will stop these fresh fish fouls from fermenting finely.

Broomhead ignores the RVS stage, apparently he's read enough into this to feel the intensity of the day already, which he claims in the beginning of this post (but that's not important).

Let's see some problems in his posts however. Being a go-getter is not something that is scummy, it just makes mafia target them. This is not scummy. She does not have emotions across the board FMPOV. It seems that while Broomhead feels the intensity, he only skimmed the conversation and is joining the bandwagon that feels the easiest to lynch. But as always, I could be wrong.

Ahh, being an eager beaver and overreacting or "having emotions all across the board" are two very similar things (don't worry Brandi, I'll come back to you). They walk the same fine line.

You ignored the question at hand, not saying one is particularly scummy or not.

While yes, he answered his own question, should you really be not answering questions given to you? It makes you seem as if you are purposely ignoring the idea of expressing your own personal opinion, but you have no reason to.

Regardless, inconsistency is less scummy and more just a poorly organized mind. Anyone can have one of those, but only a select few can be ready to throw out 7 or 8 tendrils of accusation so she can always have a quote back up from day one.

This is pretty true, however sudden inconsistency, not inconsistency after a prolonged period of time.

Oddly enough, this is all Broomhead has had to say on the matter of Day 1

TL;DR BROOMHEAD - He quickly jumped on the Brandi wagon, without adding any information on his own, and has ignored answering a question and came back with a witty remark. Generally he has said nothing to help us, and I don't like it.

__
Interlude

Docpotter

is the next lucky guest! Let's take a look at him!

I will start outside of RVS

Pie, it probably ended when people started getting serious about the responses as is the way. Espe I also would love to see some reasoning.

I see some parroting of Inflatable Pie here, this is not a good start of a re-read.

and.. heh... That's all he's said, by far the easiest re-read. I'm not even going to TL;DR, until proven otherwise, he's either un-helpful town who needs to get pressured to get into the game, lurking scum, or parroting scum. I'm not liking Doc of pottering's way of playing at all right now


interlude
__



Our next guest is

Espeonage

! Let's give him a round of applause.


I was originally going to start with his RVS vote on Zang, considering he pointed out Zang's vote, but not Brandi's. However, with the fact that Brandi's time of posting and Espeonage's time of posting being so close, I can deduct that it was just the possibility of him not seeing it. Let's carry on.

Unvote, Vote: Brandi

I don't know about you guys, but usually I give some reason of why I vote. Espeonage does not, why? Who knows. Maybe because he felt Brandi's scumminess was obvious enough that he didn't need to explain? However, he's the one who starts the first vote on Brandi. ... I'm sure with this, he DEFINATELY shouldn't be explaining his vote, however like I said earlier, he does not.

Not cool Espeonage, not cool.

Fake god and Brandi are on the same scum team.

No explanation again, seems like he's being obnoxious, or this is just his way of playing. I'm sure with pressure he'd explain his reasonings eventually however.

FakeGod took his teammate's place on the wagon when it was no longer benificial for them to have her on it.

They are both acting scummy as well.

This is silly FMPOV. If someone unvotes, and someone votes on the same wagon, that makes those two people scummy (assuming you thought the unvoter was scummy)? IT sounds like you're making up reasoning to add FakeGod into the list. I would only see both mafia sheeping the vote in order to put them at closer lynch vote early game.

FakeGod took his teammate's place on the wagon when it was no longer benificial for them to have her on it.

They are both acting scummy as well.

While you said they both are acting scummy, you aren't willing to write a case on it. Nor question to pressure more, sounds like a bluff vote to seem town-ish. If you at least write a case by the end of pg 6 I might feel some towniness there.

Ok yes Brandi is bad. FakeGod is officially worse. I am liking my scum buddies theory. FakeGod would you please stop trying to buddy with every single person in this game. Suffice it to say that I really wish I had two votes so I could vote Brandi and FakeGod. I will stick with Brandi for now but if someone pushes towards the tipping point I wont hesitate to tip that balance.

Arrogance, I wish he would at least give his personal reasonings for why they were scummy, however I digress, let's continue with his reading.

@fakeGod: That only shows that it hasn't been working. But pointing out things you like about other peoples play while not commenting on the game is bad.

Has nothing to do with what particularly makes them scummy

Wall of words makes my eyes bleed. Then i couldn't read them due to having blood in my eyes.

Kay.

@This little arguement going on. Isn't there are page on buddying in the wiki?

Cool.

TL;DR ESPEONAGE - He hasn't said much except "I think FakeGod and Brandi are scum" Then goes off to post nothing else on anyone else. Very tunnel visioned. I would like to see more from him on someone else, if town, he's letting potential scum slide under his sight. If scum, pressuring two of the most likely lynches in hopes of a death to occur, saying he's willing to hammer both lynches immediately to cover his butt when it happens. More of a scum read than town, however there's not much to base off of either. Some of this is biased to how I feel town will explain, if he explains it, I'm sure he's more town than scum.



interlude
__


Oh FakeGod.. My Epicmafia Buddy.. remember those times you night killed me on day 1?

Now it time to PAY!! with a re-read!

so I asked my 8 ball whether Parama is maf. It said yes 5 times in a row, forcing me to re-RVS. Unvote: Broom Vote: Parama something strange is going on......better ask my 8 ball again

Take note of this, he is still RVS'ing. Purposely ignoring the conversation going on.

Rethinking my life. Sorry for jumping on your wagon.

I feel that once again, these are jokes. Now let's talk about this right here.

Alright, I think I have a rough sketch of people I'll be playing with. It's an honor to be playing with you folks *takes a bow* but I don't think I'll be posting until more people (like that broom guy I rved) shows up.

This is his first post that I can feel a serious manner coming in. He says he has an idea of who he will playing with, and that he won't post until everyone shows up, only one person is left if i remember correctly , and it's Broomhead, he shows up on page 4 on the dot (on default posts).

However.. He doesn't talk to Broomhead at all, the 'core reason' for his inactivty from the page onwards, and only responds to Espeonage. He also says he will respond to Navy later on.

Let's see if he keeps his promise with that.

He does!

After defending himself from Parama, he does infact, respond. However he responds with a emotion filled message saying that Navy is infact, the scummy one. Or better yet, that Navy isn't helping commenting on FakeGod's not helpful posts.

TL;DR - FakeGod is trying very hard for his life, and seems genuinely offended that his kindness was taken as scumminess. I find that for games such as these, it's best to stick with the norm. Usually things that pop out randomly, are only considered scummy, not out of the norm. I feel FakeGod is pretty town, however dumb town not taking the game seriously, newbie if you will.


interlude
__

Oh Fate 'Mr. Gears of War' Jackson. Let us have a discussion about your 6-page talking.

Your first post is a random Vote on Parama, nothing wrong with this.

Unvote Vote: Brandi Your meta is showing Parama.

He votes Brandi with no real reason being told. I'm assuming that he's using Parama's other games to see that he's town. Or he is still joking with him. If it's a joke, I could see Parama/Fate as potential buddies.

However with how much Parama has been stressing buddying is a problem, I doubt that his partner would go along and do it anyways :S

This is... ...All he's posted. That's a total of three people who haven't posted more than three times in this thread, I feel this is pretty annoying.

Hello Fugitive, I'm curious by the way, are you a female or a male? By your anthro Pikachu, I'm assuming Female, or a male who loves tits . This is a serious questions by the way Also, your gender is disclosed, so if you really feel uncomfortable answering, just respond to this with -ignored- and i'll understand completely

Let's continue with your read however

Vote: FakeGod 100% scum - I guarantee it.

You started off with a serious vote, you only had two votes to read off of, and he's been consistently posting this way. I'm quite curious how much did you truly get from those two posts. Perhaps you're bussing early (incase he is scum). Or just throwing an out there clear due to his kindness.

It was my early read on him. I don't like your play either, Pie. You're second on my scum list.

I see, Fugitive has clear reads extremely early, and makes a case on neither. He does however leave a vote on FakeGod.

That was posted before your new avatar. Like my new one btw? In the spirit of this game. It's your over eagerness to seem helpful and question people while posting no real content and contributing hardly anything. My vote still stands on FakeGod, though.

I like this, Fugitive actually explained their case a little. However you can see a consistency between the two people Fugitive FoS'd.


I feel he/she generally feels that playstyle of being kind and not contributing is scummy. FakeGod and Inflatable both fit this category. Very consistent FoS's. This is all I have on Fugitive, however I'm enjoying where it's going, however I would like some cases to build up your FoS's. I don't like how the FakeGod wagon is building, however nothing is being given from Fugitive, this is his/her only downfall so far in my eyes.


interlude
__



I'm getting to the latter end of the people now.

Sadly these people talked a bit more.. I've been doing re-reads for two hours now and i'm getting drowsy however I will trek on..

INFLATABLEPIE

Hello, fellow furries. Doublevote: Parama for being the first to vote,

among other things.

I see quite a few familiar faces in this game.

This vote seems quite serious mainly because of this comment here. What does he mean by this?

From page two, you can see InflatablePie is trying quite hard to keep conversed with everyone in the group, getting general opinions from everyone, this isn't bad at all, however i'm curious to see where he's going to go on with it.

In page 3, i see that i was right.

He was intent on keeping his vote on Parama from the get-go. However he only had one post to base off of.

Interesting..

He feels different than many of the players, they feel Me and Brandi as not scummy from the get-go, and my anger/outburst gives him an 'I don't knoooow" afterthought.

He seems quite certain about our towniness. I'm not sure how to feel about this. Let's continue.

...Fugi never made a post about loving me... ;_; Zang, you don't have ANY thoughts on the day so far?

cool random post of nothing, also note his reach to other players.

Like I said, nothing bad, just pointing it out.


TL;DR InflatablePie - Tries hard to reach to everyone, however nothing entirely bad in this, except his scum readings seem to end after the first three pages. Then just lurks in my opinion. He feels parama is scum, however defends him to an extent after Brandi does her re-read. Interesting reaction..


... why did i decide to do this stupid show.

f*** the intro

NAVYCHERUB!

His first post is a doozy, he's the last to confirm on d4 and votes randomly. Let's see if all of his thoughts on all of the players add up to what i've re-read so far.

Antiximo - Asking questions isn't anti-town, I don't know what Brandi is smoking. But it isn't pro-town until it affects the town in a positive way, so stop freaking out so much. That is distracting and unnecessary, especially this early in the game.

You said nothing about me being dashingly good looking, SCUM ALERT!!

Brandi - I think it's funny that you're attacking Parama, because you both seem to be similar in playstyle to me. Everything you called out Parama for doing is his usual overconfidence. You're also acting similar to Anti by way overreacting to things like his "buddying" comment - who would possibly take that kind of thing seriously at this point?

Hmm. His usual overconfidence. Now, at the point of this, I haven't done a re-read on Parama, however I see some use of Metagaming here. It sounds like you're trying to neutralize Brandi's claim on Parama saying "oh, Parama acts like this all the time" This actually does throw some red flags.

broomhead - You find it scummy to be eager? Can you explain why?

DocPotter - 55 - Doc, I would love to see some stances.

iirc Doc never answers this question.

Espeonage - Hasn't posted much, but I've liked what I've seen so far. Just wish you would give some thoughts about people other than FakeGod and Brandi.

You would too? Espeonage has in fact, posted a good deal more than everyone else, just posting things repetitively.

FakeGod - ...I don't know what to say. All of your posts are some of the worst I've ever seen. You've done nothing but compliment others and vote. I have no doubts that you are mafia right now. Unvote, Vote FakeGod.

Sorry to add wifom into this scenario, but would mafia really continue to act this way all the way up to page 4? Some people genuinely play this way.

Fate - Post more please. Fugi - Yes, I like where your thoughts are right now, but post more.

It seems as if Navy likes the players who post FoS's, but don't have information to back it up, convienent that you like only two people

Pie - I have a feeling that if Anti is scum, so is Pie. Their interactions with each other just feel very strange...Anti never really acts extremely negative when talking to Pie, despite his behavior towards everyone else. And Pie hasn't thought negatively of Anti yet, despite being given plenty of reason to. There looks to be something there. Other than this oddity, I am feeling good about Pie.

This is hard to explain, generally speaking I haven't contacted everyone, inflatable pie is the only person who's answered my question if i remember correctly, therefore the only one i've associated with.

Parama - Usual overconfident, zealous Parama. Don't really have a read this early, and this game is certainly not an exception.

Cool beans.

Zang - Is that really all you have to say so far? You don't look very town to me at all yet.

Considering Doc potter is the same way as Zang, I don't see why they don't both have the same thought in Navy's eyes.

TL;DR - NavyCherub Seems to be defending Perama, whether for metagaming reasons, or for scum defense, I don't like it as of yet, it really depends on the flip. Needs more posts that actually discuss his FoS's.





interlude
__


Parama. I really wish you didn't post so god damn much I'm going to look at scummyness.

Most of your posts are you being aggressive, and over-confident. Apparently this is how you usually play, so i'm going to ignore it.

I like this logic but I think it's a bit early to be establishing scumlinks.

Oh really? How come

[Quote="Parama"Even if both players are scummy in their own regard and happen to both play a part in the same wagon through the logic you pointed out and... Oh. Well... carry on then. [/quote]

Let's ride on Espeonage some more please. Generally speaking his logic isn't all that sound, considering From your POV, your view of Brandi being scummy is OMGUS of sorts. Fakegod's from his trolling, which is regardless how you see it, consistent.

Or I feel a need to call someone likely town due to their attitude and timing of their post. I get good vibes from Espeonage's post there and I get good logic from his following ones. Issues there? I'm just callin' 'em as I see 'em, and I see a townie

Woah, you were being serious about your town claim on Espe-? Scum alert. Espeonage said a total of FIVE LETTERS. (granted, it's an acronym)

Whoops, I was accusing you of buddying with me, not Doc. Why you would bother to ask if someone was being serious about their vote during in RVS is a type of overreaction that can be used as a link later. Meh, I explain it badly. But I've seen it as a buddy tell plenty of times and felt the need to call it out.

How could Brandi calling you out as scum possibly be buddying?

I think you're overanalyzing RVS posts.

Nice defense.

... NO. JUST NO. YOU ARE TAKING EVERYTHING I SAY TOO SERIOUSLY.

Sudden outbursts over trivial things.

*headdesk* Are you even reading the thread? It REALLY helps.

anger towards Zang. Parama doesn't seem very helpful towards keeping town in the right direction. I don't like his play style, whether it may be meta-gaming him as town or not. I just... can't wrap my finger around how that arguement happened and was dropped so quickly. While i have towntells from Brandi, I feel that was staged too.. Frustration :_: w/e, i'm done with this guy.

TL;DR - PARAMA I don't like the way he plays, he generally has spent the day defending himself, explaining meta and how it's bad, and FoS'ing FakeGod who is by far the easiest person to FoS in this entire game. It feels like Mafia biting for an easy target. Then pressuring the poor guy because he generally is fucked for being random for a total of four to five pages. Anyways, i'm not liking Parama too much, but w/e



interlude
__


Zang, you're so lucky it's ridiculous, i'm so tired right now.. It's been four hours.. I just want to be done... Let's make this quick and painless...


-shivers-

Because I didn't know that I wasn't supposed to confirm in thread.

This is a simple read, you're a skimmer, this isn't entirely bad. However you'll be missing big details in posts. My first recommendation, read harder.

yes, I read it and I didn't see anything about confirming so I posted in here and when it was locked I looked back at my PM and it was right there. That's why I was embarrased.

interesting.. Why would you need to re-read your role entirely...

Good bye random voting.

Unvote

Don't have much time now, will post later.

I have a problem with this from a town perspective, you're not reading fully as you go along. Because of this, I would have a problem having you in the game end-game. From a scum perspective, you might not feel the information as important as town would, and that it's only important if it includes you and your scum buddies.

I agree with this. Parama, Why would esp be town for a RVS OMGUS vote on me?

Whaddya know, this includes Zang. So he's curious about it. It seems like he's secretly pointing a finger to Espeonage to get lynched next, without actually saying it. He is parroting Brandi on another note. If we lynch zang and he flips scum, we should check out Brandi.

Why would it be a joke post? he continued to say.. *shows parama's quote*

He's quite defensive about this random town claim... interesting... ON page 6, he continues to pressure Parama while Brandi goes off and does other things. He also doesn't feel InflatablePie's question was important to answer here.

TL;DR ZANG I'm interested in his flip. I feel he's the play for today.

[Antiximo]

So yeah, my current thoughts.

We should Lynch Zang if nothing important happens, if anything to see his flip. I'm also interested in Docpotter to say more, his parroting on Parama is interesting.

Fakegod is acting dumb, perhaps it will help him stay alive, which is what's important.

NavyCherub doesn't have any true FoS's, coasting a bit.

Espeonage and Fugutive have FoS's, however I want to read more into them from their POV's. Considering they don't really explain their FoS's into good detail (Fugitive does a small amount, but not enough to satisfy me)

Fate hasn't posted, I'm putting him on the lynch list with DocPotter and Zang.

Brandi is looking pretty town, but that Parama arguement that dropped off the face of the earth is just weird.

Inflatablepie seems to be interested in everyone's thoughts, I don't see anything wrong with it, i'm interested in what he's getting from all this information. Townie for now.

[Antiximo]

Oh,

and i just read the last two pages.

FakeGod- want to make yourself look less scummy? Honestly I feel you're a pretty big town-tell, give an Fos to someone, stop relying on your life just to live, rely on your life to help town.

Did anyone notice Docpotter's post right here.

Lots of things happened today and last night, stuff I'll have to think over. Especially Brandi-Parama, though that has the hallmarks of town-town butting heads.

FG some of your posts contain aparent contradictions, though that could be me rush reading 4 odd pages. #151 and seriousness is the most obvious. Care to comment?

But for the moment

Vote Epseon

. Someting there twinges my gut so I'll make a gut vote.

Lol @ this, Lots of stuff has happened. I need to think it over. How about you express what you have now? You just came from parroting someone, and now you have no information AGAIN!

What else do you do?

"I'm just gunna lay this vote on espeon right here... *vote*"

vote : Docpotter

Play better scumbag.

[Parama]

Hello everyone, I can't say I recognize any of your names, but my memory is pretty terrible so if I may have just forgotten some of you. I'm totally ready for this game as I have my fursona as my avatar

Oh how cute, she gives us all a kind heart-felt welcome, I feel butterflies in my stomach.

Makes me want to hurl.

You have issues. That was uncalled for.

Brandi completely drops Parama for the rest of the page, and votes FakeGod.

I'm thrown off by this due to.
1) Parama, was from Brandi's POV scum, why would she so quickly look into 'scum's' FoS when to her it shouldn't be important?
2) She no longer responds to any of the quarrelling that goes on.
3) She has had no contact or any thought of FakeGoD (perhaps too headstrung over Parama).

The issue was resolved; it was an argument based on different definitions of the same term. Once it was resolved there was no need to keep fighting about it - I'm amazed that you did all this rereading and still didn't understand the argument at all.

until proven otherwise, he's either un-helpful town who needs to get pressured to get into the game, lurking scum, or parroting scum. I'm not liking Doc of pottering's way of playing at all right now

Or maybe someone who hasn't had computer access since their most recent post? That can happen y'know.

Your Espeonage read is based on the fact that he hasn't given reasons... but he did!

so I asked my 8 ball whether Parama is maf. It said yes 5 times in a row, forcing me to re-RVS. Unvote: Broom Vote: Parama something strange is going on......better ask my 8 ball again

Take note of this, he is still RVS'ing. Purposely ignoring the conversation going on.
...
After defending himself from Parama, he does infact, respond. However he responds with a emotion filled message saying that Navy is infact, the scummy one. Or better yet, that Navy isn't helping commenting on FakeGod's not helpful posts.

TL;DR - FakeGod is trying very hard for his life, and seems genuinely offended that his kindness was taken as scumminess. I find that for games such as these, it's best to stick with the norm. Usually things that pop out randomly, are only considered scummy, not out of the norm. I feel FakeGod is pretty town, however dumb town not taking the game seriously, newbie if you will.

Um... what? You bring up reasons he could be scum, then get a town read on him based on those? Contradiction much?

I see, Fugitive has clear reads extremely early, and makes a case on neither. He does however leave a vote on FakeGod.

You don't need cases to have good reads. I prefer posting my cases on my scum reads to convince others why I'm right - others are just blunt about their reads and have reasons but don't give them. The latter doesn't make anyone scummier.

...Fugi never made a post about loving me... ;_; Zang, you don't have ANY thoughts on the day so far?

cool random post of nothing, also note his reach to other players.

Calling out someone who isn't contributing = goodposting

Fate - Post more please. Fugi - Yes, I like where your thoughts are right now, but post more.[/qupte]

It seems as if Navy likes the players who post FoS's, but don't have information to back it up, convienent that you like only two people

Again, lack of a case =/= scummy.
For example, if every player on a wagon had to make their own case on the person else get called out as scum, we would never agree on a lynch. 1. some people don't have the time or are too lazy, 2. cases would disagree with each other and players on the wagon would spend more time arguing about who's right rather than arguing why to lynch the player.

I like this logic but I think it's a bit early to be establishing scumlinks.

Oh really? How come

We don't have any dead scum to establish a connection to. Scumlinks are more important once we have a dead scum, as the connections there are much more meaningful. It's not a bad thing to establish scumlinks early but they should not be used as part of a case until there's a dead scum who links to other players.

[Quote="Parama"Even if both players are scummy in their own regard and happen to both play a part in the same wagon through the logic you pointed out and... Oh. Well... carry on then.

Let's ride on Espeonage some more please. Generally speaking his logic isn't all that sound, considering From your POV, your view of Brandi being scummy is OMGUS of sorts. Fakegod's from his trolling, which is regardless how you see it, consistent.

When did I ever say I found Brandi scummy? And consistently being scummy is a good thing?

Or I feel a need to call someone likely town due to their attitude and timing of their post. I get good vibes from Espeonage's post there and I get good logic from his following ones. Issues there? I'm just callin' 'em as I see 'em, and I see a townie

Woah, you were being serious about your town claim on Espe-? Scum alert. Espeonage said a total of FIVE LETTERS. (granted, it's an acronym)

I explained it. Why is everyone freaking out over an announced town read? (and hell it's already changed due to a terribad post by Espe)

Whoops, I was accusing you of buddying with me, not Doc. Why you would bother to ask if someone was being serious about their vote during in RVS is a type of overreaction that can be used as a link later. Meh, I explain it badly. But I've seen it as a buddy tell plenty of times and felt the need to call it out.

How could Brandi calling you out as scum possibly be buddying?

Lol that's not what my accusation of buddying was based on - please read more carefully next time. I explained why in the post you quoted.

I think you're overanalyzing RVS posts.

Nice defense.

Because obviously everything in RVS is supposed to be taken 100% seriously.

... NO. JUST NO. YOU ARE TAKING EVERYTHING I SAY TOO SERIOUSLY.

Sudden outbursts over trivial things.

Arguing down a case against me = trivial? Lololol.

*headdesk* Are you even reading the thread? It REALLY helps.

anger towards Zang. Parama doesn't seem very helpful towards keeping town in the right direction. I don't like his play style, whether it may be meta-gaming him as town or not. I just... can't wrap my finger around how that arguement happened and was dropped so quickly. While i have towntells from Brandi, I feel that was staged too.. Frustration :_: w/e, i'm done with this guy.

I'm telling people why I find them scummy or what they're doing wrong. Yes, I am being rather blunt about it. Is that a big deal?
Please note that reading the thread carefully is quite important, and you aren't reading it carefully enough considering some of the points you've brought up against me.

TL;DR - PARAMA I don't like the way he plays, he generally has spent the day defending himself, explaining meta and how it's bad, and FoS'ing FakeGod who is by far the easiest person to FoS in this entire game. It feels like Mafia biting for an easy target. Then pressuring the poor guy because he generally is fucked for being random for a total of four to five pages. Anyways, i'm not liking Parama too much, but w/e

The most obvious scum is usually scum. The easiest to FoS has good reasons to be FoSed. There's a method to my madness, and it's one to catch the scum and get them lynched.
And if you have problems with the way I play, too bad. I know it works so I'm not going to bother changing it.

Zang, you're so lucky it's ridiculous, i'm so tired right now.. It's been four hours.. I just want to be done... Let's make this quick and painless...

I agree with this. Parama, Why would esp be town for a RVS OMGUS vote on me?

Whaddya know, this includes Zang. So he's curious about it. It seems like he's secretly pointing a finger to Espeonage to get lynched next, without actually saying it. He is parroting Brandi on another note. If we lynch zang and he flips scum, we should check out Brandi.

Lol you just pulled that accusation out of thin air didn't you.

TL;DR ZANG I'm interested in his flip. I feel he's the play for today.

So you're interested in his flip but in this same line you don't feel it necessary to say why you find him scummy?
*headdesk*

Responding to your post felt like a waste of time tbh.

[Fugitive]

Meh, Sorry I'm not posting a lot. Lot's of stuff is going on, it's my birthday weekend (some people in this thread can attest to the truth of that), but I assure you I'm keeping up with reading.

I don't have time to make very long thought out posts (yet), but I still like my vote on FakeGod, and Pie is still my runner up for scum. I'm very interested in the Brandi, Parama back and forth too. If I had to pick a third scum it would be Docpotter.

Like I said, I can post in more detail later, but I am keeping up with happenings.

Just one more thing, real quick. I know buddying is being discussed a lot in this game, and I'd like to explain that real quickly. Pie, Parama, Navy, and myself frequent an IRC channel (we don't talk about the game, promise) and we've played many games together. So when they mention each other a lot, it's because we're familiar with each other, it's not necessarily buddying.

So yeah, will post more starting Monday.

[Antiximo]

Parama, why do you have a problem with jokes, however you are okay with yourself joking?

Just curious.

[Parama]

Parama, why do you have a problem with jokes, however you are okay with yourself joking?

Just curious.

Where did I say I have a problem with jokes?

[Antiximo]

@parama

- I understood that much, but the way you acted towards them in her eyes was scummy, regardless of definition, correct?

-On the doc potter case, he apparently does have access, considering he posted on Pg 7.

-I'm reading from page 1 to page 6, I saw no reasoning as to why they were scummy, no posts that show where the scum read was found, etc. I find your defending against espeonage alarming.

-Inflatable's post was half fluff, and Zang actually did post beforehand.

-First off parama, what's your definition of scummy.

-I didn't pull that accusation out of thin air, this something I noticed. If you feel it's not worth anything, that's cool, but it wasn't random.

-I

showed

why i found him scummy. Didn't you just read my re-read.

If you find it worthless to comment on my re-read, then why comment on it? Do you have other motives.

*gasp*

Do you like me? I mean, it's quite sudden Parama, but i'm sure something can be arranged

[NavyCherub]

FakeGod, it comes down to if I actually believe you or not. If the town actually believes you or not - that's what all lynches come down to, because every case has a defense of some sort. I don't happen to believe you; or rather, I believe that you were using RVS as an excuse to not try and you are scum. I wouldn't bet anything except for a bit of credibility on you being scum, as everyone is wrong sometimes and it would not help the town to lynch the person who made a case on a townie for that reason only. In fact, bringing up this "wager" is just an appeal to emotion and doesn't make you look any better in my eyes.

I think you're overanalyzing RVS posts.

Nice defense.

Wow...you give no flack to FakeGod for using this defense on absolutely every case presented to him, and even call him

TOWN

, but when Parama uses it you respond sarcastically and negatively. This is so very hypocritical.

[NavyCherub]

FakeGod, it comes down to if I actually believe you or not. If the town actually believes you or not - that's what all lynches come down to, because every case has a defense of some sort. I don't happen to believe you; or rather, I believe that you were using RVS as an excuse to not try and you are scum. I wouldn't bet anything except for a bit of credibility on you being scum, as everyone is wrong sometimes and it would not help the town to lynch the person who made a case on a townie for that reason only. In fact, bringing up this "wager" is just an appeal to emotion and doesn't make you look any better in my eyes.

I think you're overanalyzing RVS posts.

Nice defense.

Wow...you give no flack to FakeGod for using this defense on absolutely every case presented to him, and even call him

TOWN

, but when Parama uses it you respond sarcastically and negatively. This is so very hypocritical.

[Espeonage]

RVS was over somewhere between post 29 and 33.

[Zang]

@Zang: Please read recent posts to finish your analysis. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now that you just weren't fully caught up. But everything you have stated has already been addressed.

Fine, I'll continue my analisis. But I would like to say that just because it's already adressed doesn't mean it's not important. I will go throught the acummulated pages since then and post my thoughts so it is possible that I will post some of what has already been adressed.  I'll start at page 5.

Brandi-

Oh because using humor and sarcasm with other players isn't buddying them right? You don't make any sense. What makes you think only serious posts can be buddying is beyond me.

 
No, it's not. The point of buddying is that when somebody is lynched and flips scum, the town connects that person to somebody else that they helped a lot during the game. If that scumbag though, was just telling a few jokes to somebody else, why would he be scum?

Perhaps this definition is not the best because all I get from it is being "friendly" with others is buddying. But Parama's definition seems to extend further than that.

Ok, you admit that you messed up with the definition but why didn't you look it up before? Then this whole argument between you and Parama could have been diverted. 


NavyCherub-

...Fugi never made a post about loving me...

;_;

STOP BUDDYING ME DANG

How is this buddying?


Espionage-

Wall of words makes my eyes bleed. Then i couldn't read them due to having blood in my eyes.

They make my eyes bleed to. Which reminds me, why am I the one being criticized for not posting content when people like espionage and fate are posting just as little?


Parama-

Yep more appealing. He even asks for my reaction to an unvote. You really want to know? I think you're just trying to get others to like you so nobody will lynch you. As you can see, that's certainly backfired.

How does looking for a reaction to an unvote make it so that others won't lynch you? And just looking for a reaction I have seen be done by both scum and town.
Although I do agree with your other points in your FakeGod case.

FakeGod-

counter 1. wagon grows, wagon trips, wagon breaks down and comes back up all the time. I just happened to put my vote there and I was the 5th person to do so, and I see that you apparently have a problem with that for some reason.

Yes but being the fifth person to do so you put him two votes away from being lynched and it was an RVS vote.

counter 2.

Where is counter 2?

counter 3. Putting you at L-2 is "dangerous" how? what, scums would suddenly hammer you? Getting lynched by being flooded by RVSs is not going to happen and you know it. Before telling me it's dangerous, tell me what could happen.

Regardless of whether scum would hammer, you had no reason to put a random vote on him after discussion started.

@Navy: RV stage is up. It's time to get serious. For me, RVS ended when you posted, Mr. I-have-no-doubts-that-FG-is-scum-based-on-4-posts. And you think I'm the one with bad excuses? Look at yourself. You are using Real-Life-got-in-the-way excuse. Great excuse I must say, because there's absolutely no possible way for me to somehow confirm that.

Just because there is no way for you to confirm it doesn't mean it didn't happen because there is also no possible way for you to debunk it. In situations like this you should give him the benefit of the doubt.

I explained this like hundred times already. Haven't you seen my post above? I RVed on Para, and when he responded, I respond back with a ObviouS JokE. There were no reasons behind my RV!!!!!!!! I don't need a reason behind a RV in case you are wondering. Quit pretending to not understand. This isn't the first time I said my vote on Para was RV.

It was obvious that the "rethinking my life" part was a joke but not the "Sorry for jumping on your wagon".

Sorry for my naviete, but how does WIFOM work? I've seen it mentioned in many games in online mafia. I read the wiki, but it really didn't make sense to me. >.<

Actually the Cop/Robber example is accurate, basically scum give town a choice, one that's obviously correct and one that's obviously wrong. But the town think that he wants him to choose the right one but the correct one is wrong. But then the scum might think that he would think that so the correct one is correct. Thus making each choice equal.

Antiximo-

From Brandi's POV, she's hit the damn jackpot in scumhunting. I'm not going to lie, even in my eyes the post from Parama to Fate (along with Fate continuing on to vote Brandi) threw some red flags. It was a polar opposite to Parama's mood before.

 
Actually not really, look at paramas first few posts before his mention of meta. They are very joking just like his post toward Fate.

This is his first post that I can feel a serious manner coming in. He says he has an idea of who he will playing with, and that he won't post until everyone shows up, only one person is left if i remember correctly , and it's Broomhead, he shows up on page 4 on the dot (on default posts).

There were actually two people left to post, Broomhead and NavyCherub

He votes Brandi with no real reason being told. I'm assuming that he's using Parama's other games to see that he's town.  Or he is still joking with him. If it's a joke, I could see Parama/Fate as potential buddies.

Why would two scum buddy with eachother? It defeats the whole point of buddying.

This is... ...All he's posted. That's a total of three people who haven't posted more than three times in this thread, I feel this is pretty annoying.

Why are you suprised? Day 1 just started two or three days ago and everybody can't be as superactive as you, fakegod, Brandi and parama.

Woah, you were being serious about your town claim on Espe-? Scum alert. Espeonage said a total of FIVE LETTERS. (granted, it's an acronym)

I have confronted Parama about this before and he sais he got a town "vibe" from esp but that it doesn't have to do with his vote on me so it can't have anything to do with OMGUS so Parama, why did you get this vibe from espionage?

Zang, you're so lucky it's ridiculous, i'm so tired right now.. It's been four hours.. I just want to be done... Let's make this quick and painless...

You think you have it bad? I've been putting this together all day.

This is a simple read, you're a skimmer, this isn't entirely bad. However you'll be missing big details in posts. My first recommendation, read harder.

Ok, I will read harder.

interesting.. Why would you need to re-read your role entirely...

I don't see why this would matter.

I have a problem with this from a town perspective, you're not reading fully as you go along. Because of this, I would have a problem having you in the game end-game. From a scum perspective, you might not feel the information as important as town would, and that it's only important if it includes you and your scum buddies.

I don't really understand what you are saying here.

Whaddya know, this includes Zang. So he's curious about it. It seems like he's secretly pointing a finger to Espeonage to get lynched next, without actually saying it. He is parroting Brandi on another note. If we lynch zang and he flips scum, we should check out Brandi.

I wanted to know why parama thought esp was town for voting me, just as you wanted to know earlier in your post.


sorry for the wall of text.

[NavyCherub]

RVS was over somewhere between post 29 and 33.

^^^ this guy is a smart guy, he knows how to play mafia.

[NavyCherub]

NavyCherub-

...Fugi never made a post about loving me...

;_;

STOP BUDDYING ME DANG

How is this buddying?

Context, my friend, use it. This is a little something I like to call satire, or maybe sarcasm. I was showing Brandi how stupid it was that she was using pre-game connections and friendly interactions based on those pre-game connections to say someone was "buddying."