mini 943- Greek Mythology! (And the winner is... ?)

[Flava Flave]

Ooba, Why did you assume masons before scum if you believe the setup to be 2:2:8?

Hmm. The whole situation looks fishy to me. "Hey, are you guys masons?" "Yup". I don't know, it looks like too much. Since when do we just ask people if they are a specific power role? And the best way to know that there are two scum teams is if you ARE scum with only one buddy. That's also the best way to be able to speculate on what roles each scum group has.

People are eating up Ooba's words like they are Grandma Anne's chocolate chip cookies.

I don't know. I get a sketchy vibe off of him in the last couple of pages.

Hmm. Pretty sure I buy the mason claim. It's either true or was a crafted pre-game plan, which would probably be poor play. They aren't likely to live to endgame anyway, so I'm not too worried about them.

Oh, and I won't be claiming my power any time soon. It's one of those things that could confirm someone's claim or catch someone in a lie, so it's not useful to claim that now.

My special is something that I'm still trying to figure out if it can be useful or not.

I could give my nameclaim if you guys would like, but I don't see that meaning much of anything on the off chance that the "good guy" names are scum or that scum have fakeclaims.

Hmm.

I'll treat Iec and Shadow as town.
Alma is basically town.
I'm iffy on Ooba.
I get town vibes off of Joh.
Chronos is probably town. I don't see scum fakeclaiming a cop/doc combo role. Chances of a counterclaim are too high.
Jack, Andrius, and Plum are left.

I'll lynch any of those three names right now.

[Shadow Dancer]

If you believe me you should also believe my Andrius is investigated town result.

I trust Iec 100% obviously, Ooba is almost guaranteed town.

I have doubts about Alma, but I leave it for now.

FF and Andrius are also investigated town. I also leave them for now.

I do not know about fake claims and counterclaims in this game. For example we can consider the fact that there is more than one cop role as proven, no way we got four or five fake claimed cops (or similar powers) (VV, Ooba, LC, Iec and myself all claimed investigation results or cop powers).

I have an uncertain feeling that the most untrustworthy player her is DN, that bastard

[Shadow Dancer]

My V/LA starts now, lasting for approximately 76h. See you guys on monday.

[Iecerint]

I can confirm our result on Andy via SD. This is what he was asking if we should share a few posts ago. I wanted to hold off, because it was possible that all the Andy-targeters might be a bit more likely to be scum, and I wanted to see how far they would take it. That's another reason I voted Plum when I did. But hurrying things along is probably fine.

LC, is there any chance that you have sanity issues?

[LordChronos]

I'm not sure. Do investigative roles other than cops ever have sanity issues?

[Andrius]

The utility of my breadcrumbing something that would only be useful given my flip as mafia or cult is near 0%. That kind of play would just out the rest of the Cult/mafia after the flip.

I'm not used to Masons playing, so its a new twist for me. :/

It seems like the sheer number of investigation roles in this game is just over the top ridiculous, which convinces me that there is at least one investigation immune GF/SK, double GF or something like that, making Andrius' and Ooba's theories very plausible likely.
Why am I mentioning this? - I got one, too. I claim town result on Andrius. Iec can confirm this since we share a QT.

Something I just thought of. With all the investigators running amock, can we be sure that they're all sane? I mean, Greek gods/goddesses aside, usually in a game with this many investigative roles there's some type of catch. :/ And, if there are indeed 3 factions, whichever factions they may be, could there be like, a Mafia Cop? He'd be able to find the cult/ second mafia members. So, I doubt that all the investigators are 100% accurate to begin with, since there are like, 5 of them, or rather, five players with investigative powers.

How ever, there is likely a big fish among all those "innocents". But still we can limit our scum hunt to Jack, Plum and Joh for today.

Perhaps we should make sure, somehow, that all of our investigations are accurate, you know? Iece and SD have confirmed each other, and unless they're really risky mafia, then they confirm their roles.
So that clears Iece, SD, and whoever they investigated (Alm, FF and me, right?).
Then there's LC. Naturally, lynching someone with protective powers is a bad idea. But perhaps we should look into LC's alignment, because its not feasibly hard for a mafia to claim Cop, and prove their scumbuddy innocent. And if there are 2 mafia factions, perhaps the "lesser" scum is a mafia doctor for the "greater" scum. That would also give the mafia factions a bonus against each other.

Oh, and Andrius, before I forget.

I explicitely stated that claiming pre game votes to locate the Zeus counter would only help scum. Hence we should not do it.

Yeah, I was just saying that, in the case we did do this, I don't know who I/GiD voted for.

People are eating up Ooba's words like they are Grandma Anne's chocolate chip cookies.

Ummm, did you not read my big post? I don't necessarily agree with him, but he brings up good points on the setup.

They aren't likely to live to endgame anyway, so I'm not too worried about them.

Why is this?

(VV, Ooba, LC, Iec and myself all claimed investigation results or cop powers).

Yeah, I'm wondering if all of you are sane, no offense. But still, four sane-cops? That seems like alot, unless one of you is like, not-sane, or a mafia cop, or something. :/ Four investigative abilities, aka, 1/3 of the players, seems like alot. Unless there's an Enabler or something.

LC, is there any chance that you have sanity issues?

This.

[Jack]

So the 2 scummiest people have innocent results on them. Charming.

I would be very surprised if one of the wasn't a GF, or has their scumbuddy claim a fake result on them. Although the last makes much more sense in 2:2:8 which I don't believe this setup is.

I haven't seen anything particularly suspicious from Joh or Plum, and I have seen it from Flava and Alma. Is there a good reason to go by the results? I don't see one.

[Iecerint]

LC is the one who investigated FF, not us. I think we'd probably lynch FF if not for LC's claim. On top of everything else, he just said his power could out scum, whereas he prior indicated that his power was "nothing special" IIRC. <_<

Ooba didn't quite claim Cop; he can see what players' abilities are. But I think he's pretty much cleared for hammering VV yesterday. The only way he could be scum is if he can target Normals and Supers as a day ability, and he did VV D1 and Alma D3.

[Andrius]

LC is the one who investigated FF, not us.

Right. My bad.

he just said his power could out scum, whereas he prior indicated that his power was "nothing special" IIRC.

It seems like its not his power that does it, but claiming his power would be the cause of the scum-getting. Maybe he's a psych, who reveals all our sanities. XD

Ooba didn't quite claim Cop; he can see what players' abilities are.

Yeah, but its an investigative role. If he gets a read of: "You are innocent to all investigations" he could instantly assume that person's a GF. So its not a "Cop", but its investigative.

The only way he could be scum is if he can target Normals and Supers as a day ability, and he did VV D1 and Alma D3.

I don't understand. You're saying he could block Normals and Supers? (saying theoretically, mind you)

I still think there's a possibility of a mafia cop/doc. Because its highly unlikely that the town has 4 investigative roles that are all sane.

[Iecerint]

Ooba hammered VV even though VV had (fake)claimed he was a bomb. I think town are more likely to make that kind of move than scum because town are unlikely to lie about that sort of thing, and scum would know that VV was town.

So, ooba's ability would have to be a day ability that let him see VV's Super ability and learn that it was not actually a bomb ability.

Speaking of that -- ooba, you know someone else's Normal, too, right? Don't reveal it or who, just whether. Apologies if you've already done that.

Come to think of it, I guess scumOoba could've thought that VV was lying and part of another scumteam, but that's still on the remote side of things IMO.

[LordChronos]

@all who are wondering about my sanity

If the wiki article on cops is correct in saying that they are the only investigative role that has sanity problems, then the only reason my investigation of FF would be wrong is if he is a mafia godfather or other role that always appears innocent to investigations, as I am not a cop.

[Iecerint]

Hmm. Then how confident are you in FF's alignment being town barring shenanigans with your ability?

[LordChronos]

That is hard to say. The reason I investigated him was because I felt he was pretty scummy and his posts today haven't been very pro-town or helpful either.

I just realized I am still voting Andrius.

Unvote

[Iecerint]

For example, are you a tracker and the basis of your "innocent" is that he didn't target anyone (low reliability), or are you a name-cop, and the basis of your "innocent" is that his role seems less likely to be aligned with scum (also low reliability)? Or what?

Given the number of investigations out there and the fact that your doc claim already makes you a decent night target, I'm inclined to believe that you should go ahead and specify the details. But use your judgment.

[LordChronos]

I am neither of those. I am a jack of all trades with a one time protect, a one time investigation, and another power, plus my special. So my investigation works like a normal cop investigation. I don't know whether I am sane.

[DeathNote]

Vote Count

AlmasterGM- Johoohno (L-5)
Jack- AlmasterGM (L-5)
Andrius- Plum (L-5)
Flava Flav- Andrius (L-5)
Plum- Flava Flav (L-5)
Johoohno- Iecerint, ShadowDancer (L-4)

Not Voting:

ooba, Jack, Lord Chronos

With 10 alive, its 6 to lynch.

Prods going out as necessary.

[Flava Flave]

If you believe me you should also believe my Andrius is investigated town result.

Oh shit, forgot about that. Guess that leaves Plum and Jack as the best lynches. And I'd be a little more willing to go with Joh by process of elimination now even though I have a town read. I'd lynch Ooba too, but that's not happening, I see.

By the way, I wouldn't treat investigations as 100% confirmation guys. There's possible Godfathers and sanity issues. Yes, odds of being town when investigated as such go up, but it's no guarantee. And in a known power role heavy game, it's likely that scum got some help with their roles too.

Andrius, two players who can confirm each other are likely scum NK targets.

Iec, there's a slight possibility that my power catches someone in a lie. It's not likely though.

[Johoohno]

Investigation galore:

I too find all these investigation powers suspicious, since we know that scum's WC revolves around the powers, what interest would they have in obtaining all those powers, apart from reaching the WC that is?

Fake claims or sanity issues:

If we have faked innocent claims LC's on Flava is the least likely one to be true, I can't say on the targets though who might've faked it, since they all seem likely targets from a townie perspective. If we have sanity issues I distrust both LC's on Flava, SD's on Andrius and Iec on Alm. But it sounds a bit too good for town to have a mason pair where they both can investigate with correct results.

Doubts:

And once I started doubting some things I went paranoid on a lot of things. Listing it here just to make sure the thoughts are out and discussed so that a few of them can be written off by the rest of the town.

• Ooba might have known or believed that VV's fake claim of killing the hammerer wasn't true, given that scum-ooba could have knowledge of the entire scum groups abilities.
  
• Alma’s killing power could be a scum NK just as well as a vig power, do we know anything about this for certain? And this call about a new power since the old one is lost, I don’t see how that fits with Ares? (perhaps that is what happens when you use your special, but at least the one who used the double night special should know as well then).
  
• One in the mason pair is a scum even though the other one thinks he knows the alignments of his partner (this one actually calls for some serious bastard modding, but still feels relevant to say, since, as mentioned above, two masons with confirmed alignment plus sane investigative roles are too good for town in a balanced setup).

My claim

I have some information to claim too, but it might be better to keep it hidden for some time to catch scums faking info. But if you feel that I'm your lynch today and you bring me to L-1 with a person willing to hammer I'll claim. Do so in good time before deadline in that case, so that there's time to regroup if necessary.

Preferred lynch:

I’d like to get your thoughts on all the things above, since I’m still fairly set for Alma, Flava or Andrius. If we decide to go for one of the uninvestigated I’m not sure who to pick out of Plum and Jack. I think I like Plum a bit better as scum, even though she made some fairly good posts and observations just before and after the nights that made me shift my earlier stance on her.

@ Flava:

Why do you want me lynched in 691 where you, in the same post, state that Jack and Plum are the best lynches, and then keep your vote on Plum. Who do you find best to lynch right now and, more importantly, why? (I don't buy Ooba calling Flava a VI, Flava has enough wits to realize that two confirmed masons won't last till endgame).

@ Alma:

A lot of people has claimed information since you last was here, what is your current favoured scum cluster?

I really dislike how Almaster has been missing without any explanation for quite a few days now.

@ Mod:

Please prod Almaster.

One last thing:

I remember two people saying that their powers kind of sucked, but I can't seem to find those posts right now. Does anyone else remeber who they were and can you in that case link me to those posts. And on the topic of neat links to Shadow Dancer and Andrius, do like this except for all the spaces: [ url = link to post] a text you want to be the link [ /url]

[Andrius]

Ooba hammered VV even though VV had (fake)claimed he was a bomb. I think town are more likely to make that kind of move than scum because town are unlikely to lie about that sort of thing, and scum would know that VV was town.

I agree. Unless he were scum and unconditionally knew that he would reveal as town/ his fakeclaim, (which is really doubtful), then its a good show of townie-ness.

So, ooba's ability would have to be a day ability that let him see VV's Super ability and learn that it was not actually a bomb ability.

If so, it was probably his special.

Oh shit, forgot about that. Guess that leaves Plum and Jack as the best lynches. And I'd be a little more willing to go with Joh by process of elimination now even though I have a town read. I'd lynch Ooba too, but that's not happening, I see.

By the way, I wouldn't treat investigations as 100% confirmation guys. There's possible Godfathers and sanity issues. Yes, odds of being town when investigated as such go up, but it's no guarantee. And in a known power role heavy game, it's likely that scum got some help with their roles too.

You contradicted yourself. In the first paragraph you ruled me out b/c of SD's investigation, and then you say that its down to Jack and Joh and Plum, and we might as well lump LC in there too, since he hasn't been confirmed by someone else.
In the second paragraph you then say that we shouldn't treat investigations as 100%.

Andrius, two players who can confirm each other are likely scum NK targets.

Yeah, it makes sense, now that the majority of the town is confirmed town, barring any insanity issues, etc.

Fake claims or sanity issues: If we have faked innocent claims LC's on Flava is the least likely one to be true, I can't say on the targets though who might've faked it, since they all seem likely targets from a townie perspective. If we have sanity issues I distrust both LC's on Flava, SD's on Andrius and Iec on Alm. But it sounds a bit too good for town to have a mason pair where they both can investigate with correct results.

I don't really want to pin sanity issues on Greek gods/goddesses. I think that's a bit stretched. I don't think LC is insane, given that his investigation was a one-shot. It seems bastary (am I using this correctly?) to have a JOAT whose one-shot abilities are not guaranteed. If there are sanity issues, at all, I'd put them in the Mason group, given that two masons and two investigation abilities seem a bit stretched. But maybe all the investigators are sane, and this is all something we're conjuring up to make it all more complex than necessary.
I don't think we should just throw out all the investigations, assuming they're all results of GFs, bussers, or sanity issues. That gets us nowhere.

Ok, I want to address the scumOoba thing. I think he's town, if for no other reason than VV's super flipped him. It seems highly unlikely that supers can be tricked, given that Alm's is an unstoppable kill. Either that, or he's a Mafia GF with loads of power, in order to get over VV's super.

Definitely need to get Alm and Plum in here.

Like this?
So that links to a page. How do you get it to link to a particular post?

[Andrius]

Joh, these what you were looking for?

By the way, if I'm forced to claim, I expect to be lynched. My power isn't all that exciting.

I can claim it if people want; it's not that good, so I doubt it would make me a huge target for NK, and it's verifiable under certain circumstances.

[Iecerint]

Whoa, I missed that Alma claimed implicitly that omni-vig wouldn't make him an NK target. O.o

[Johoohno]

@ Andrius:

Now that you mention it I agree: LC's claim is less likely being insane since it's a one shot. (However if both Iec and SD have one shots that reduces the reliability of sane one shot investigations, unless of course, one of them is scum - I can't see both of them being scum though. And I'm pretty sure Iec said he had a one shot or such like, but I don't think SD has commented on that yet.) And about Ooba, VV didn't flip his alignment, only his role name. And as I think I've said before role names aren't the same as alignment.

God fathers:

I forgot to mention god fathers in my last post, but Andrius' posts brought that to mind. I am fairly certain this setup has GF's in it, partly due to all the, possibly sane, investigations, partly due to the fact my top trio for scums have all been investigated, and:

Claiming puny powers:

It seems as if this setup is loaded with powers useful by first sight. I find it suspicious that two players, Alma and Flava (see Andrius post above for quotes) claims to have weak powers. Furthermore it's a pretty efficient way to explain why you weren't NKed.

Now don't anyone of you go and claim

your abilities right away, wait until we decide if we're having a mass claim and the routines around that, or until someone is brought to L-1 with someone ready to hammer.

@ SD and Iece:

I wouldn't mind an open discussion between the both of you if SD should say his investigation is one shot or not (unless he has already specified that). That discussion could shed some lights on the on the mason pair alignment distrust I have.

Andrius: to quote a specific post you just click on the post letter head icon that looks like words "new document icon", then you get the link to that specific post.

[Andrius]

Whoa, I missed that Alma claimed implicitly that omni-vig wouldn't make him an NK target. O.o

No, that quote was in D3, after he supposedly lost the Vig, and got a new power.

@ Andrius: Now that you mention it I agree: LC's claim is less likely being insane since it's a one shot. (However if both Iec and SD have one shots that reduces the reliability of sane one shot investigations,

I guess we could ask them if their investigations are one-shot or not.

@ Iece:

Is your investigation ability one-shot too? Can you answer for SD, since he won't be here until 5/3? Because if all of you have one-shots we'll have to look into it more, especially given VV was an alignment cop, and it seems that Ooba is a role cop.

And about Ooba, VV didn't flip his alignment, only his role name. And as I think I've said before role names aren't the same as alignment.

Really? I'll have to go back and check. His 'Athena' was in green, so I assumed town. :/ I'll go look, and link it with my new-found linking skills.

[Andrius]

Here's the D1 Lynch Scene

And you're right, Ooba is not revealed as town-aligned.

[Iecerint]

Our investigations were tied to the extra night, so they're not likely to recur AFAIK.

I think insanity is unlikely, except maybe from someone like Hera. [/outguess] Bus drivers and GFs (and fakeclaimed results, maybe) are more likely to be the cause of false-negatives.

SD is 110% town.

Speaking of ooba's reveal, does anyone know anything about the franchise indicated ("Sacred Saga")?