Mini 962 - Mafia In Murrieta - Over!

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

And SAMP, they are very different. Charter deliberately came out and called B.S. on Gecko's vote. Scott is lurking, and coming up to slyly suggest the idea of B.S. on Kerrigan's unvote and Gecko's vote, without coming straight out and saying it. He's not being straightforward. Being anything but straightforward is ambiguous, possibly confusing, and therefore scummy.

Why do you say Scott is being sly and unambiguous? His opinions are clear to me.

[Scott Brosius]

Scott is lurking, and coming up to slyly suggest the idea of B.S. on Kerrigan's unvote and Gecko's vote, without coming straight out and saying it. He's not being straightforward. Being anything but straightforward is ambiguous, possibly confusing, and therefore scummy.

Don't really understand how I am lurking or being confusing.

@Esponage- I would be more concerned about the excuse of L-3 as a reason to unvote if he didn't have a reason for a new vote. However, he stated his case on Gecko, so I don't really see it as being scummy.

[Espeonage]

Why do you think it was only a FoS.

[JackALope2323]

You're lurking by sitting by while everybody else is providing the content, and popping up every now and again to make a one line comment, which doesn't offer any REAL opinion or thought on the matter, but slyly suggests what your opinion MAY be, without tying you down to it.

It's all sneaky like, and I don't like it when people are all sneaky like.

If you have an opinion state it. For example: "Gecko, I think your vote on Ice is wrong, and it's because I know Ice makes long posts, so this shouldn't be considered scummy behavior, but rather simply normal behavior on his part."

Or

"Kerrigan, I think your unvote on Jack, just because he's L-3, is a bit of a stretch, and here's why..."

(Of course, there are some other people in the game who have, as of yet, made any "real" posts. I'm still waiting for them to do so.)

[Espeonage]

Why give reasoning when it is pretty self explanitory. I have seen town lose simply because everyone got sick of trying to wade through all the long posts that could easily have been condensed into a few lines.
The fact of the matter is that the more you fluff up your posts the more you are showing that you feel the need to try and make your posts more credible by making them longer. Does that show a bit of uncertainty on the part of the poster? I don't know but all I do know is that unneccarily long posts are not helpful to town.

[JackALope2323]

There's a difference between an unnecessarily long post and a well-explained, well-written, unambiguous post.

Rather than, you know, one-liners that can't really tie you to having one opinion or another.

[Scott Brosius]

(Of course, there are some other people in the game who have, as of yet, made any "real" posts. I'm still waiting for them to do so.)

So your case can be applied to a number of people, yet you choose me. I am comfortable with my vote.

[SaintKerrigan]

Ok now this is sus. L-3 being too close. WTH.
How do we get any really good discussion if we just let pressure disappear. I would have kept the vote there. If they handle the pressure well then you back off a bit but you at least allow enough time to get a reaction.
FoS: SaintKerrigan

You're assuming that I was voting Jack to pressure him in the first place. My vote for him was a joke vote, and he didn't do anything to warrant me keeping my vote on him after the RVS was over. So I moved my vote somewhere more productive.

[Super Awesome Mega Zord!]

Why do you think it was only a FoS.

Why is it suspicious if he has a reason to switch votes?

If you have an opinion state it. For example: "Gecko, I think your vote on Ice is wrong, and it's because I know Ice makes long posts, so this shouldn't be considered scummy behavior, but rather simply normal behavior on his part."

Now you're just being silly. If he knows ICE normally makes long posts, then obviously he thinks it's not a scumtell.

[Espeonage]

Ok now this is sus. L-3 being too close. WTH.
How do we get any really good discussion if we just let pressure disappear. I would have kept the vote there. If they handle the pressure well then you back off a bit but you at least allow enough time to get a reaction.
FoS: SaintKerrigan

You're assuming that I was voting Jack to pressure him in the first place. My vote for him was a joke vote, and he didn't do anything to warrant me keeping my vote on him after the RVS was over. So I moved my vote somewhere more productive.

The whole purpose of placing votes in RvS is to build pressure. Even joke votes serve this purpose. i admit you had a reason to switch your votew but I still think that quoting L-3 as your first reason is a bit stupid. Especially at this point in the game.

[Espeonage]

@SAMP: I wasn't suspicious of him so much because he swapped votes. More that he was scared of putting pressure on someone.

[charter]

So you think that Gecko's reasoning is good and that Ice is scummy because he's trying to bully the town in to submission? What I did and what Scott did are very different.

I didn't say I agreed with gecko.

I inferred that you did since you voted me for saying his reasons for voting Ice were bad. If you don't think his reasons are good, voting me for thinking the same thing doesn't make any sense.

How are they different?

I'm saying I disagree with his reasoning. Scott isn't saying one way or the other whether he agrees or disagrees with what was said, but just throws his little comments in. They don't tell anyone where he stands on anything.

Jackalope is so freaking town my eyes are bleeding.

[Espeonage]

Unvote, Vote: havingfitz

Get an opinion pleases.

[JackALope2323]

(Of course, there are some other people in the game who have, as of yet, made any "real" posts. I'm still waiting for them to do so.)

So your case can be applied to a number of people, yet you choose me. I am comfortable with my vote.

I choose you because you're the one making the one-liners. Other people are just not posting. Once they start posting, I'll start analyzing their posts.

I agree with Espeonage, though. Fitz needs to get a-posting. His one non-RVS post was just an unvote, and not much else. I think if he goes one more day without a meaningful post, I'll label him as a lurker.

Almaster hasn't made any real posts, either.

Cruelty, as well. I'm not even sure what he's referring to in his last post.

[SaintKerrigan]

The whole purpose of placing votes in RvS is to build pressure. Even joke votes serve this purpose. i admit you had a reason to switch your votew but I still think that quoting L-3 as your first reason is a bit stupid. Especially at this point in the game.

Some people treat RVS as a non-serious opening to the game and as such their votes have no intended meaning beyond a playful take on intellectual reasoning. I'm one of those people. I certainly wasn't voting Jack to put pressure on him.

[Espeonage]

Then what is point of placing a vote in the first place?

[JackALope2323]

A. It gets discussion started.

B. It makes some people slip up.

[Espeonage]

Both of those are results of pressure.

[AlmasterGM]

What is everyone's timezone? This is mostly directed towards our overseas friends who may be posting at strange hours, so that I don't expect a post from you during my afternoon in case of a tight deadline.

EST. I usually post between 11am and 3am.

What is everyone's general mafia experience?

Been playing on here almost a year, used to play on some other forum but it was quite different, play a couple IRL sessions per month.

About how much can we expect you to be posting?

My posting fluctuates. Sometimes I will post multiple times per day, other times I will be bogged down with RL and will not post for a day or two.

Anyway…

Unvote. Vote: thegeckoj

.

you sure are chatty when all he wanted was a simple answer. and pointing out that you take mafia very seriously shows me that you are going to possibly become over-aggressive. maybe a way to prepare people for your scummy-like bullying?

First, the analysis itself is poor because it equates a playstyle/personality choice with scumminess. There are MANY very good players on this site who are aggressive. There also a wide variety of chatty and quiet players. Designating these qualities as being good or bad is problematic.

Second, I consider making statements in the form of questions to be scummy. A question seeks the approval of others in the group, something scum are interested in because they require it to survive. Town usually do not exhibit this behavior. Moreover, questions-attacks are bad because they let people backpedal later because it makes them appear less committed to their position.

I am also not a fan of Scott because of this reason:

I'm going to go ahead and unvote, vote Scott. Two posts now where he's subtly undermined someone's vote. First it was after Gecko voted Ice for making long posts. Then it was to Kerrigan when he unvoted Jack to vote Gecko.

[ICEninja]

I agree with some things that have been said. A lot of it hasn't been worth commenting on, but I'm also suspicious of those who didn't like Kerrigan unvoting because it was a random vote. Kerrigan was absolutely right in saying that there was no need to have his vote there, and that a vote on gecko was worth doing. It wasn't at all that Kerrigan isn't willing to pressure someone, it is that Kerrigan doesn't want to waste time pressuring a non suspicious player when he can be pressuring a suspicious player.

We really don't need to get in to the arguments of the RVS's merit and purpose, as many people have different feelings about it. I personally dislike the RVS, and only participate at all because someone always get grumpy when I push out of it too fast. What I was referring to in my post that Jack found extremely ambiguous is that Jack is cutting through the RVS and making a real case early in the game instead of me.

Now I would like to

Confirm suspicion of fitz

as my random vote is already on him, but he has posted virtually nothing, with no suspicions, no content, or anything save a few empty posts. My vote is a serious vote now, please tell us what you think of some of the accusations and comments and cases made.

[SaintKerrigan]

Then what is point of placing a vote in the first place?

For the hell of it. Also because the urge to come up with funny reasons to place a vote on someone is irresistable.

I think you may be taking RVS a little too seriously, here.

I'll add my voice to those that are calling for more Fitz content. My vote stays on Gecko.

Charter, why is Jack town?

[AlmasterGM]

I think Espeonage is winning Espeonage v. SaintKerrigan.

[wolframnhart]

Vote Count #3

Iceninja - TheGeckoJ
AGM - Cruelty
Jack - Scott Brosius
Havingfitz - Iceninja, Espeonage
TheGekoJ - Saint Kerrigan, JackALope2323, AGM
Scott Brosius - Charter
Charter - SAMP

Not Voting: Magna, Havingfitz

Deadline is May 12th at 12 pm PDT
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[SaintKerrigan]

I think Espeonage is winning Espeonage v. SaintKerrigan.

Explain.

[charter]

Charter, why is Jack town?

His posts in 73-88 were stolen from the inside of my head. The only thing I didn't exactly agree with was voting Gecko. I'd have voted Scott.