Mini 942: Gonzo Mafia - Game Over!

[Zachrulez]

In fact

Vote: DDD

I prefer a DDD lynch slightly. If it's not him, I'm confident it's Hohum.

[Zachrulez]

Also post 1008 by Amished is a good reason to move him down my scumlist a bit.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

No, I'm voting for DDD for reasons I expressed in my previous post before DDD cranked up the asshattery to 11.

Yeah that was a phenomenal argument, "DDD is lurking... like usual; probably a suspect". You listed one thing, ignored the entirety of the rest of the game and then explained the one thing away as typical of my play and somehow I'm supposed to respect you or that argument when you then immediatly claim me as your top scum suspect.

[xRECKONERx]

Nah, I don't want your respect. I'd feel icky.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Keeping things in context. Jahudo joined an Amished wagon after Sotty, myself, and Ekim voted for Locke with strong feelings that he was scum. At that point Jahudo could have looked at the situation and considered Amished a lost cause.

Bullshit, Amished wasn't even the biggest wagon at that point and it was six to lynch. Three players voting would hardly make a player a complete lost cause.

As to the point about immediately cross bussing, I find that argument a bit... alarming actually as the window of time they were cross bussing was actually pretty brief toward the end of the day. Amished flipped his vote to Jahudo as momentum was building on that wagon as it was also becoming clear that his Percy wagon wasn't going anywhere.

No, they did not immediatly cross bus but two remaining scum both jump hard onto their partners wagons on day two after a correct day one lynch? I'm not buying that and you aren't either anymore.

[Zachrulez]

Keeping things in context. Jahudo joined an Amished wagon after Sotty, myself, and Ekim voted for Locke with strong feelings that he was scum. At that point Jahudo could have looked at the situation and considered Amished a lost cause.

Bullshit, Amished wasn't even the biggest wagon at that point and it was six to lynch. Three players voting would hardly make a player a complete lost cause.

It's not necessarily about size. It's about who's on the wagon, how strongly they feel about it, the quality of the arguments, and how likely scum perceives them to be able to convince the rest of the town to lynch.

As to the point about immediately cross bussing, I find that argument a bit... alarming actually as the window of time they were cross bussing was actually pretty brief toward the end of the day. Amished flipped his vote to Jahudo as momentum was building on that wagon as it was also becoming clear that his Percy wagon wasn't going anywhere.

No, they did not immediatly cross bus but two remaining scum both jump hard onto their partners wagons on day two after a correct day one lynch? I'm not buying that and you aren't either anymore.

But you argued that they immediately did. The way it happened I actually could see if scum were panicking.

... anyway

I tend to think there's a good chance that Amished is town in spite of your arguments, not because of them.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Keeping things in context. Jahudo joined an Amished wagon after Sotty, myself, and Ekim voted for Locke with strong feelings that he was scum. At that point Jahudo could have looked at the situation and considered Amished a lost cause.

Bullshit, Amished wasn't even the biggest wagon at that point and it was six to lynch. Three players voting would hardly make a player a complete lost cause.

It's not necessarily about size. It's about who's on the wagon, how strongly they feel about it, the quality of the arguments, and how likely scum perceives them to be able to convince the rest of the town to lynch.

The Hohum wagon was bigger, had players who looked more town and at least as quality overall and the wagon was on Hohum who about everyone in the game has wanted to lynch at one point. I don't buy for a second that with such a viable option open that they'd instead chose to bus.

As to the point about immediately cross bussing, I find that argument a bit... alarming actually as the window of time they were cross bussing was actually pretty brief toward the end of the day. Amished flipped his vote to Jahudo as momentum was building on that wagon as it was also becoming clear that his Percy wagon wasn't going anywhere.

No, they did not immediatly cross bus but two remaining scum both jump hard onto their partners wagons on day two after a correct day one lynch? I'm not buying that and you aren't either anymore.

But you argued that they immediately did. The way it happened I actually could see if scum were panicking.

... anyway

I tend to think there's a good chance that Amished is town in spite of your arguments, not because of them.

The immediately part was irrelevant to my argument, personally I'm of the opinion that the last thing they would do in a panic is try to bus again after Jahudo already did that day one.

[hohum]

hohum, why doesn't the lack of a counter claim clear Zach in your eyes? Everyone has checked in and a 10min night after a scum lynch doesn't feel like a scum power use.

As I said there are plenty of other explanations for a 10 minute night and people have claimed made up roles in the past. Unless he wants to oblige us with some proof we're not going to know what really happened until he either flips or the game ends.

Also are you going to scum hunt or are you just leaving your vote on yourself all day?

I'm doing what I can to insert myself back into the discussion. I've at least voted someone today, you only just now voted. Are you going to scum hunt today or are you going to go for low hanging fruit?

[Vi]

I've tried three drafts of this post and I still can't get a scummary that I like. This is because I can't tell who's scummy any more; everyone's jumping up and down like PICK ME PICK ME ever since Jahudo died.

Here's the current theory.

DDD mentioned that scum would be unlikely to bus right out the gate D2. I'll buy that; that might eliminate Zachrulez. What's frustrating is that I can't tell if I'm being paranoid with Zach fakeclaiming right now or not. I'm going to blindly step forward and say that Zach is probably Town.

For DDD to be scum he has to have bussed both of his partners. While I actually kind of hate some amount of what he has said D3 theory-wise (why no massclaim? why are you voting xRx when you said earlier you were resistant to lynching someone who was on two scumwagons?) it is what it is.

Sotty7 is etc.

I don't think xRx is scum. I could use another housecat right about now but he was on the Jahudo wagon at a time when if he were scum it would have been rather disadvantageous. If I'm wrong on this I'm going to feel terrible about myself because of the contradiction I pointed out at the beginning of D3.

Amished's play post-D2 has been terrible, and his terrible intent to hammer hohum just adds spice to it. Really the only reasons he's getting away with it right now involve DDD's clout and hohum playing even worse.

I could fill this entire post with reasons why hohum sucks like a vacuum - if he's Town. If he's scum, I have to admit what he's been doing has been working quite well for him in terms of lynch resistance. As a general rule, theories that assume that someone is playing an excellent game are not believable.

Vote: Amished

(L-3)

If it came down to a hohum lynch, I wouldn't cry. But I much prefer this lynch.

[Amished]

Yay, "terrible play" as an excuse for my lynch! After not seeing anything scummy pop out on a quick reread (read Vi's previous posts) and basically agreeing with both DDD and I about hohum (should get lynched one way or another but won't right now?); but still wanting me lynched essentially because of me stating that hohum should be lynched at the time.

Looks like desperate scum to me.

xRx: stop being so random.

Unvote
Vote: Vi

[Vi]

Amished's play post-D2 has been terrible,

and his terrible intent to hammer hohum just adds spice to it. Really the only reasons he's getting away with it right now involve DDD's clout and hohum playing even worse.

um so yeah there's more than just the intent to hammer hohum

plus also i may be biased but i think scum would have tried joining one of the three very easy wagons available

also if you read into what i said i decided hohum was more likely the worst town player i've ever seen than scum

[Amished]

What has been so terrible then, and why is it scummy? Please, elaborate your shoddy reasons for voting me.

I believe what you said about hohum was: *IF* he was town, he sucks hard. *IF* he's scum, he's effective. *THEN* you say you wouldn't cry if he was lynched. How is that effectively different from my stance of hohum's play is bad enough (town or scum) to warrant a try at scum by lynching him?

[Vi]

Amished #37 - First post of D3. Apparently you "skimmed up" but had nothing to say about anything that had gone on that Day. That's not active lurking at all.

#39 through #42 and #44 and #47 - Blatant setup speculation with reckless disregard for what the mod said in the rules.

#43 and #45 - "I don't think xRx is scum anyways" juxtaposed with "claim time". That's less grievous than the fact that you're now VOTING for xRx. We'll come back to this.

#46 - Awesome ekiM vote with no reasoning.

---End of D3, beginning of D4---

#48 - Threat to hammer hohum as a "mercy kill". (Wait, where were you up to this point in the Day, aside from telling hohum and Zach to STFU and asking me more setup-y questions?) You don't hammer people you expect to flip Town, not in this scenario where deadline is nowhere nearby and one would expect a Townie to have reads elsewhere (you don't seem to). (No, I would not hammer hohum unless he gave me immediate reason to do so.)

#50 - Suddenly xRx is scum for not voting you immediately after expressing suspicion of you? Isn't that, like, sort of the complete opposite of what you're doing to me now? Even so, that's a weak, weak reason for doing such a 180 on someone you only recently said was more likely Town.

I still don't understand why or how you and DDD claim to be on the same wavelength at this point. Your post #55 saying that you don't understand why DDD is trying to connect to you makes little sense.

Last, this is twice now that you've reactively flown against someone who accused you (xRx, now me). Only scum and horrible Townies need to react at this point; you're surrounded by Townies who (mostly) aren't morons and it's pretty difficult to plausibly say there's a scumspiracy against you. You're no horrible Townie. QED.

[Vi]

I kind of

do

have to thank you for asking me to do that read though. I'm quite a bit more confident now that I've laid it out.~

[Amished]

For ekiM: I thought Sotty's 845 was the best posting of D3, and coupled with his L-1 of xRx here was scummy. BY THE WAY: how is my "awesome mike vote for no reasoning" any different than your awesome mike vote for no reasoning" ?

37: If there's nothing to say (once) I'd rather say that everything going on at the time is boring and not worth commenting on then a single post is active lurking? Ooooookay..

Setup Speculation: Lack of a NK N1, with somebody I viewed as scummy N2 as the only NK looks a lot more like a vig to me than a scumteam. Obviously. I was having trouble getting really solid reads on a couple players, and Zach's claim made me believe him more so I don't see the problem with a massclaim, especially after lynching two scum.

Yesterday I didn't see xRx as scum, I am allowed to change my mind. Today what he said made more sense as scum than it did as town (Unvoting hohum due to me willing to hammer somebody I felt was town implies that he thinks that I'm scum going for a mislynch. Him not voting for me when it's implied that he thinks I'm scum when I didn't have a vote on me at the time (I believe) looks a lot more like scum behavior than town behavior.

As for DDD: I agreed basically 100% with his post 1000. That's where I got the same read thing from. When I have the same outlook as somebody I both like them (cause they're reading the game the same way indicating a similar mindset) and wonder if they're playing me (as it's happened before). 55 is my thought process if it'd make more sense to play only me; or to try to use me as a mislynch. With a couple people listing me as their secondary suspect during the early part of the day today; it would make more scum-sense to try to use me as one of the 3 needed mislynches for the scum to come back from 2 partners down.

Try coming up with something with a little more context to your argument next time. I expect more out of you.

[Vi]

BY THE WAY: how is my "awesome mike vote for no reasoning" any different than your awesome mike vote for no reasoning" ?

At the very least I mentioned him that Day, for one.

37: If there's nothing to say (once) I'd rather say that everything going on at the time is boring and not worth commenting on then a single post is active lurking? Ooooookay..

Whatever happened to steering discussion toward someone you DO think is scummy?

Setup Speculation: Lack of a NK N1, with somebody I viewed as scummy N2 as the only NK looks a lot more like a vig to me than a scumteam. Obviously. I was having trouble getting really solid reads on a couple players, and Zach's claim made me believe him more so I don't see the problem with a massclaim, especially after lynching two scum.

* at "obviously"*
Zach's claim was D4 though. Meanwhile, what happened to scumhunting?

Yesterday I didn't see xRx as scum, I am allowed to change my mind. Today what he said made more sense as scum than it did as town (Unvoting hohum due to me willing to hammer somebody I felt was town implies that he thinks that I'm scum going for a mislynch. Him not voting for me when it's implied that he thinks I'm scum when I didn't have a vote on me at the time (I believe) looks a lot more like scum behavior than town behavior.

And do you still believe that xRx is more likely scum than <random other person>?
And was that enough to take him from your "probably Town" column to "most likely scum"?

More interestingly, did you suspect anyone else at all before xRx said something that allowed you to vote him?

As for DDD: I agreed basically 100% with his post 1000. That's where I got the same read thing from. When I have the same outlook as somebody I both like them (cause they're reading the game the same way indicating a similar mindset) and wonder if they're playing me (as it's happened before). 55 is my thought process if it'd make more sense to play only me; or to try to use me as a mislynch. With a couple people listing me as their secondary suspect during the early part of the day today; it would make more scum-sense to try to use me as one of the 3 needed mislynches for the scum to come back from 2 partners down.

Nobody says the hyposcum has to lynch you

now

.

Do you think that you are actively having a mislynch set up against you right now?

Try coming up with something with a little more context to your argument next time.

I expect more out of you.

What is this saying?

[VP Baltar]

"Okay,"

I said.

"What is it?"

He hesitated, then smiled happily.

"This is my

writing

!"

he said.

"This is

my

stuff! This is probably the best

stuff

ever written in English! And it's

mine

! I wrote it when I was in jail--like Ernest Hemingway."

"Ernest was never in jail,"

I said.

"At least not like you. He never swept floors in a library at night with a beeper strapped to his ankle."

It was cruel, but I felt the time had come to rein him in, to flog him back to reality. But he was getting hysterical, so I let him read on.

---

Votecount 4-4

:

hohum ~ L-2 (hohum, Sotty7)

Debonair Danny DiPietro ~ L-2 (xRECKONERx, Zachrulez)
xRECKONERx ~ L-3 (Debonair Danny DiPietro)
Amished ~ L-3 (Vi)
Vi ~ L-3 (Amished)

Not Voting:

With

7

alive, it takes

4

to lynch. Deadline is May 7 at roughly 8 a.m. (GMT-4)

[hohum]

So, after digesting the last page and a half or so I'm happy with my original instincts

Unvote, Vote Vi

I've read back a little bit in the topic and I've noticed a vi pattern. Every time someone goes after Vi we get a robotic "you're a BAD townie" and get swatted on the nose with a newspaper ever failing to address the root cause of the complaint. This has been ongoing since Day 1.

"U SUCK" is not a valid defense. No matter how bad someone is playing there's always room for redemption.

(S)he has done it to me
Now (S)he is doing it to Amished.

[Vi]

Every time someone goes after Vi we get a robotic "you're a BAD townie"

and get swatted on the nose with a newspaper

ever failing to address the root cause of the complaint.

(S)he has done it to me

Now (S)he is doing it to Amished.

What has been so terrible then, and why is it scummy? Please, elaborate your shoddy reasons for voting me.

<stuff>

Last,

this is twice now that you've reactively flown against someone who accused you (xRx, now me).

Only scum and horrible Townies need to react at this point; you're surrounded by Townies who (mostly) aren't morons and it's pretty difficult to plausibly say there's a scumspiracy against you.

You're no horrible Townie.

QED.

Pretty much the only other people who have bothered to go after me are DDD and you (please forgive me for lumping the two of you in the same category). DDD is more likely than not Town, and his conclusion is bad (I acknowledge that I deleted one of my other gripes with him in 1033, namely that I think he's stretching to put together that "scum narrative" of me considering he just saw me as scum where I didn't act anything like what he's saying I would D1). At present I'm taking a gamble on you-Town, and everything you do is bad.

That reminds me, one of the other things that got deleted in draft 2 of 1033 was that Jack said he thought he saw an xRx-Jahudo scumteam. I'll look into that.

[Vi]

Question for xRx. Why did you go so far out of your way to tell everyone that I'm really good scum because of an ongoing game (never mind the only game you've ever played with me)? I would hope that you had a really, really good reason for bringing that up twice. In addition, before bringing up the ongoing game you said that you've seen me play as both alignments (#10), but not including this game we've only been in one game together. Which other game are you looking at?

I'm bothered by how xRx said "lynch me; I don't care" to accusations

before

Jack brought up the possibility of xRx/kyle being together, at which point he actually started protesting. Further, for some reason after I pointed out kyle's contradiction in 285, xRx actually

added on to it

- yet immediately afterward insisted that kyle was playing to his Town meta.

Jahudo's attempt at a case on Locke Lamora feels like something I would post to attempt to bus a scumpartner - small, uncertain, but nevertheless trust me he's in the top three! It's the shortest thing he posted about anyone in his reads.

I have a hard time buying that I'm scum after seeing Jahudo prioritize attacking me over reading ortolan. ...oh wait.
Similarly I don't think his discourse with DDD was scum-on-scum.

xRx flops on Jahudo/kyle and makes what seems to me to be an overly contrived summary of why he would vote ortolan that Day--

(Okay, this looks awful... ort votes me in iso1, then votes me again in iso2... it's like he's not even really paying attention to what's going on and is just latching onto the most viable scum candidate at the time. You know who plays like that? Scum. He also refuses to put a vote down on hohum until hohum forces it out of him. Then suddenly, it's between hohum and Jack for him, and he never really explains why he suddenly dropped my wagon so quickly. Then immediately after saying "I only noticed one scummy thing about kyle", he fucking votes for kyle. But just a few iso posts before... he was stuck between hohum and Jack. Then, he replaces out just like that. Blegh. Dislike dislike dislike.)

^^this is the first time he did anything to pay attention to ortolan, and it's obvious. His other summaries don't look like so rhetorical. Here's another example for comparison.

(Let's see - random vote; irrelevant questioning of Vi on mechanical issues; frivolous comments on me, flinter, and Zach; joins my wagon at an opportune time; wah wah wah wah replacements; continues in a holding pattern sticking on my wagon; my wagon isn't going anywhere so he hops to ortolan with very little prior reasoning or logic behind it; heralds ortolan wagon, once again, with no reasoning; dear God this is awful)

Notice that there's more emphasis on what DDD actually

did

, without the fluff.

Jahudo's first post of D2 concerns me. I don't think scum would be in such a hurry to write off so many people as Town {hohum, xRx, Jack, Vi} unless he knew there was no chance of most of them getting lynched.

Jahudo jumping onto the Amished wagon when it was popular makes me wonder, as does Jahudo's "I'm voting Amished for Locke Lamora, not Amished".

Amished 712 reminds me that Amished was willing to jump from Percy to Jahudo when they had equally large wagons (ignoring Amished's vote). That's actually pro-Town; I would expect scum to avoid making that kind of move when the way I worded the question allowed him to safely say "no".

I have no idea why xRx voted for Jahudo. Literally the last thing he said about Jahudo was D1 saying that Jahudo made excellent scumhunting.

I have no idea what to make of the xRx vs. Jahudo spat at the end of D2.

@you:

I'm curious as to what the general consensus is about Jahudo's convenient change of mind about hohum.

Jahudo's Town reads shortly before he was lynched included four dead people/claimed power roles, me, and DDD. I think they're all likely Town thanks to crackpot psychology, etc..

xRx's wagon D3 was comprised of myself, Jack, Zach, and ekiM. From my perspective, it has been established that this wagon was Town-driven; thus making it more likely that xRx is the last scum. hohum could have joined that wagon but chose to vote me instead; slight Townish points.

The Percy kill continues to bother me. The three dead Townies at this point {Percy, ekiM, Jack} were all supporters of lynching hohum and xRx. There IS an alternative explanation, namely that the Percy and Jack kills were aiming for power roles, but that seems a little convenient.

----

tl;dr It's certainly not implausible that xRx is the last scum. His most recent posts feel Townie tbqh, but his relationships with the two flipped scum are hard to buy and his D1 posts are just weird.

Locke Lamora would make a good partner to Jahudo, but Amished wouldn't.

I keep coming to similar conclusions with each pair I read in multi-isolation, which means I'm either seeing all that's there or I'm tunneling. But I don't have a reason to believe I'm tunneling tbh...

[Vi]

I'm not entirely sure of this, but I may as well.

Unvote: Amished
Vote: xRECKONERx

(L-2)

Cue OMGUS vote in three, two, one...

[Sotty7]

Also are you going to scum hunt or are you just leaving your vote on yourself all day?

I'm doing what I can to insert myself back into the discussion. I've at least voted someone today, you only just now voted. Are you going to scum hunt today or are you going to go for low hanging fruit?

I happen to think you are scum, so yes. But keeping your vote on yourself isn't helpful if you truly are town.

Yay, "terrible play" as an excuse for my lynch! After not seeing anything scummy pop out on a quick reread (read Vi's previous posts) and basically agreeing with both DDD and I about hohum (should get lynched one way or another but won't right now?); but still wanting me lynched essentially because of me stating that hohum should be lynched at the time.

Looks like desperate scum to me.

Funny. Because when I saw your vote for Vi, that's exactly what I thought about you.

I've read back a little bit in the topic and I've noticed a vi pattern. Every time someone goes after Vi we get a robotic "you're a BAD townie" and get swatted on the nose with a newspaper ever failing to address the root cause of the complaint. This has been ongoing since Day 1.

So I take it you have no reaction to Amished's sudden hostile reaction to Vi's vote by slapping one right back on her?

As I type this up, Vi's two most recent posts come up leaving me pretty stumped. I take it you ISO'ed Amished in 1037 and then went back to read parts of the game in context in 1044? The quick flip leaves a sour taste in my mouth, as if you wanted to get away from Amished not fully convinced of the case you built. Are you dropping Amished completely now?

[Vi]

As I type this up, Vi's two most recent posts come up leaving me pretty stumped. I take it you ISO'ed Amished in 1037 and then went back to read parts of the game in context in 1044? The quick flip leaves a sour taste in my mouth, as if you wanted to get away from Amished not fully convinced of the case you built. Are you dropping Amished completely now?

Not completely. But I'm not as convinced as I was before.

I'm actually using multi-isolation, showing xRx and Jahudo's posts. The Amished-votes-Jahudo point was something I remembered along the way.
I asked that question specifically to weed out the possibility of Jahudo+Amished, and forgot about it later.

While I'm here I'm looking at hohum + Jahudo. bbs

[Zachrulez]

Actually I don't think hohum posted between the time that Reck was put at lynch -1 to the point I unvoted, so I don't think it's unplausable to believe that he wouldn't have swooped in and hammered Reck given a chance.

[Vi]

Question for hohum.

We're headed in a general direction of fucking ourselves.

You never did clarify what you meant by this.
At this time D1, the wagons were on Jack, yourself, and ortolan (in order of size). Jack was one of your suspects from before you V/LAd. Yourself, etc. Previously during the Day you bullied ortolan's vote onto you but you never voted him or expressed any opinion that he was remotely Townish. So, I'm having a hard time connecting the dots on my own.

There's really not much to see in hohum vs. Jahudo. hohum never addressed Jahudo before hammering him. Jahudo ignored everything hohum did until it became convenient not to, rejecting the theory that hohum bullied ortoetc.

Has hohum defended all the points from post 462? I don't think so, but he probably should. Like why he ignored most of the town. Still, I don't think its scummy the he ignored the flinter replacing, which I already mentioned. And the timing of the reck vote is also not a tell for me.

He's not scummy but should defend himself?
It should have been fairly obvious that hohum

hadn't

defended against ekiM's accusations from a page ago considering hohum had only posted once with the above quote. I guess this qualifies as coaching, especially considering he didn't look back on his hohum-Town read afterward.

--

tl;dr This is a much more hands-off interaction than what we saw with xRx and Jahudo, more fitting the pattern of not mentioning each other unless they had to. I have to repeat my question from the xRx scummary in regards to what people think of Jahudo's change of heart on hohum.

So if Zachrulez is a claimed power role, Sotty7 isn't likely to be scum, DDD isn't likely to be scum, and Amished could be scum if he recklessly bussed Jahudo; that leaves hohum and xRx.
I feel like I'm almost back at square one. :\

---

@Zach: I was actually referring to him voting me over RECK. It's a weak tell nonetheless.

Also, apologies for Zazieposting.