Mini 948 - Victorian Vampire - Game Over

[ElectricBadger]

cruelty has been prodded.

Vote Count:

With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

(1) Nobody Special: TheSkeward
(2) CryMeARiver: Darox, SpyreX
(1) Easjo: Nobody Special
(1) MagnaofIllusion: cruelty

(6) Not Voting: easjo682, Zang, CryMeARiver, MagnaofIllusion, Ooba

Day One ends by May 13th at the toll of midnight PST.

Singing children hauled tin cans, filled with kerosene, to the town square.

[ooba]

crulety, why the vote on magna?

@Cruelty: Actually reading back, this is something I would like answered too.

@Magna: When you posted your second last post (before the V\LA notice), you must have been able to see Cruelty's vote. Why didn't you ask him anything about it?

[ElectricBadger]

Zang has been prodded.

[Zang]

Voting CMAR so hard right now.

'No, nothing to do with miller. Also, I'm pretty sure one doesn't know that they are a miller, only regular.'

'I'd like to clear up that what I said has absolutely nothing to do with my role. Explanation later.'

If it's got nothing to do with your role, then it's speculation on the setup.

And if it's speculation on the setup, then why the hell did you imply you had such in depth knowledge.

No where have I ever seen a miller who knows he is a miller because then they would just claim miller and mafia would be able to claim miller. That's stupid.
Yes, I have been speculating about the setup. I've been thinking about "weak vig". Weak doc is if they protect mafia, then they die. This would not make sense for a vig though, since shooting mafia and then dying is stupid and defeats the purpose of a vig. So the only thing I could come up with is that they can't choose who they shoot at night. Thinking about the flavor of the game, I thought of a mob killing a monster. So there might be a group of weak vigs? This is all speculation of course and I can guarantee that my role PM does not tell me any of this

I have been in a game where there was a miller and he knew. He wouldn't claim and when he was replaced it was the first thing he did since he was at L-1. The town was then faced with a desicion either to lynch him or accept his claim. We lynched him and he was the town miller.

I would think that based on what you say about a weak doc that a weak vig would be killed if he targeted town, killing both of them.

[CryMeARiver]

Voting CMAR so hard right now.

'No, nothing to do with miller. Also, I'm pretty sure one doesn't know that they are a miller, only regular.'

'I'd like to clear up that what I said has absolutely nothing to do with my role. Explanation later.'

If it's got nothing to do with your role, then it's speculation on the setup.

And if it's speculation on the setup, then why the hell did you imply you had such in depth knowledge.

No where have I ever seen a miller who knows he is a miller because then they would just claim miller and mafia would be able to claim miller. That's stupid.
Yes, I have been speculating about the setup. I've been thinking about "weak vig". Weak doc is if they protect mafia, then they die. This would not make sense for a vig though, since shooting mafia and then dying is stupid and defeats the purpose of a vig. So the only thing I could come up with is that they can't choose who they shoot at night. Thinking about the flavor of the game, I thought of a mob killing a monster. So there might be a group of weak vigs? This is all speculation of course and I can guarantee that my role PM does not tell me any of this

I have been in a game where there was a miller and he knew. He wouldn't claim and when he was replaced it was the first thing he did since he was at L-1. The town was then faced with a desicion either to lynch him or accept his claim. We lynched him and he was the town miller.

I would think that based on what you say about a weak doc that a weak vig would be killed if he targeted town, killing both of them.

Hmmm, that goes against anything I've ever seen. Good to know though.
That would be quite drastic to town though. Two townies dead in a small game like this? Also, roles aren't usually told if they are weak or strong, so the vig would not know this likely and would go ahead and shoot.

[cruelty]

sorry, thought i'd posted recently here.

ooba i aint gonna answer that right now.


not really feeling the darox/cmar battle, it seems like darox is being a little pedantic - i sort of understand what cmar was saying, although it was a dumb way to phrase it.

Hahaha

Unvote, Vote: CMAR

Did a quick rundown on Josh's ISO.

Guess who is never mentioned?

Not once. Quoted once that I saw, but never talked about.

this also works in reverse, there's a couple of posts early on where he defends josh/attacks slaine hayes (specifically his iso 25). although, it is noted that CMAR did entirely avoid the whole josh rolefishing issue.


also noted is this:

MORE IS TO COME! I don't have time for the rest

so obviously there was more you intended to say about slaine hayes. but;

Is this not a hammer? Mod?

then

He was replaced. Providing more would be kind of ridiculous since it'd be hard for him to respond.

this is untrue. if you've got a read that is so strong it persists onto his replacement, then it's absolutely worth mentioning. nobody special hasn't really done anything of note since replacing in, so slaine hayes's contribution is still fairly relevant.

i think i'll

unvote, vote CMAR

and see what falls out.


oh yeah, ps:

Yes, I think that everyone is picking at straws and completely misinterpreting with the Josh-Spyrex argument and the whole thing is rather ridiculous

hmm??

[Nobody Special]

Hi -- I apologize, but my weekend was horrendous. Now it's Monday, and there's Actual Work. I'll have some thoughts this evening.

[Zang]

Voting CMAR so hard right now.

'No, nothing to do with miller. Also, I'm pretty sure one doesn't know that they are a miller, only regular.'

'I'd like to clear up that what I said has absolutely nothing to do with my role. Explanation later.'

If it's got nothing to do with your role, then it's speculation on the setup.

And if it's speculation on the setup, then why the hell did you imply you had such in depth knowledge.

No where have I ever seen a miller who knows he is a miller because then they would just claim miller and mafia would be able to claim miller. That's stupid.
Yes, I have been speculating about the setup. I've been thinking about "weak vig". Weak doc is if they protect mafia, then they die. This would not make sense for a vig though, since shooting mafia and then dying is stupid and defeats the purpose of a vig. So the only thing I could come up with is that they can't choose who they shoot at night. Thinking about the flavor of the game, I thought of a mob killing a monster. So there might be a group of weak vigs? This is all speculation of course and I can guarantee that my role PM does not tell me any of this

I have been in a game where there was a miller and he knew. He wouldn't claim and when he was replaced it was the first thing he did since he was at L-1. The town was then faced with a desicion either to lynch him or accept his claim. We lynched him and he was the town miller.

I would think that based on what you say about a weak doc that a weak vig would be killed if he targeted town, killing both of them.

Hmmm, that goes against anything I've ever seen. Good to know though.
That would be quite drastic to town though. Two townies dead in a small game like this? Also, roles aren't usually told if they are weak or strong, so the vig would not know this likely and would go ahead and shoot.

well, you might have a point about the two kills being detrimental to the town plus there would be the normal mafia kill. Although I wouldn't know if roles would be told if they are weak/strong, it would probably depend on the mod and what type of role it is.

Also maybe a weak vig is like a 50% vig and only has a chance of succesfully killing the target.

[CryMeARiver]

sorry, thought i'd posted recently here.

ooba i aint gonna answer that right now.


not really feeling the darox/cmar battle, it seems like darox is being a little pedantic - i sort of understand what cmar was saying, although it was a dumb way to phrase it.

Sorry if you find that dumb.

Hahaha

Unvote, Vote: CMAR

Did a quick rundown on Josh's ISO.

Guess who is never mentioned?

Not once. Quoted once that I saw, but never talked about.

this also works in reverse, there's a couple of posts early on where he defends josh/attacks slaine hayes (specifically his iso 25). although, it is noted that CMAR did entirely avoid the whole josh rolefishing issue.

This is quite dumb. I don't defend Josh ever and yes I did attack Slaine Hayes because he was scummy. Two other people seemed to agree with me. Also, if we have agreed that Josh was a traitor, even if I was mafia, I wouldn't have known he has scum. Therefore all of the above means nothing.

also noted is this:

MORE IS TO COME! I don't have time for the rest

so obviously there was more you intended to say about slaine hayes. but;

Is this not a hammer? Mod?

then

He was replaced. Providing more would be kind of ridiculous since it'd be hard for him to respond.

this is untrue. if you've got a read that is so strong it persists onto his replacement, then it's absolutely worth mentioning. nobody special hasn't really done anything of note since replacing in, so slaine hayes's contribution is still fairly relevant.

i think i'll

unvote, vote CMAR

and see what falls out.

Yes, I originally intended to continue my ISO on Hayes.
Yes, I thought that was a hammer. I have no idea what that is meant to show.
Most of the time, it is difficult to respond to something a replacee did. I have replaced in many times, and I normally find it rather difficult to explain what they did.
My case is next.

oh yeah, ps:

Yes, I think that everyone is picking at straws and completely misinterpreting with the Josh-Spyrex argument and the whole thing is rather ridiculous

hmm??

This was early in the argument. This was when they were arguing over two things:
1) "Josh is tech" This argument was ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS and made no sense to me.
2) That Josh was rolefishing with his roleclaiming comment about Darox's Innkeeper. I thought it was obvious that Josh was not rolefishing, but saying for no one to roleclaim at all. Spyrex attacked him here for no reason.

[SpyreX]

This is quite dumb. I don't defend Josh ever and yes I did attack Slaine Hayes because he was scummy. Two other people seemed to agree with me. Also, if we have agreed that Josh was a traitor, even if I was mafia, I wouldn't have known he has scum. Therefore all of the above means nothing.

While this makes me a little it did give me a missing the trees for the forest moment: Josh was a Doctor.

No way in hell he didn't know who the scum were.

1) "Josh is tech" This argument was ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS and made no sense to me.
2) That Josh was rolefishing with his roleclaiming comment about Darox's Innkeeper. I thought it was obvious that Josh was not rolefishing, but saying for no one to roleclaim at all. Spyrex attacked him here for no reason.

Yes, putting 1 (the garbage the scum was spewing) and 2 (the dissonance in his "this is good" "wait, this is bad") is a great idea.

Dingle dangle

[CryMeARiver]

This is quite dumb. I don't defend Josh ever and yes I did attack Slaine Hayes because he was scummy. Two other people seemed to agree with me. Also, if we have agreed that Josh was a traitor, even if I was mafia, I wouldn't have known he has scum. Therefore all of the above means nothing.

While this makes me a little it did give me a missing the trees for the forest moment: Josh was a Doctor.

No way in hell he didn't know who the scum were.

No where did I say Josh didn't know who the scum were. Read that again as I

1) "Josh is tech" This argument was ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS and made no sense to me.
2) That Josh was rolefishing with his roleclaiming comment about Darox's Innkeeper. I thought it was obvious that Josh was not rolefishing, but saying for no one to roleclaim at all. Spyrex attacked him here for no reason.

Yes, putting 1 (the garbage the scum was spewing) and 2 (the dissonance in his "this is good" "wait, this is bad") is a great idea.

Dingle dangle

Not exactly sure what any of that means. Both arguments were complete crap and on the second one, Josh never rolefished still in my opinion. If I was his mafia buddy, I'd be distancing like crazy right now, but I'm not because I still think you were wrong.

[Nobody Special]

This is quite dumb. I don't defend Josh ever and yes I did attack Slaine Hayes because he was scummy. Two other people seemed to agree with me. Also, if we have agreed that Josh was a traitor, even if I was mafia, I wouldn't have known he has scum. Therefore all of the above means nothing.

While this makes me a little it did give me a missing the trees for the forest moment: Josh was a Doctor.

No way in hell he didn't know who the scum were.

Since Josh was a

Mafia Doctor,

your entire point is, well, Obvious. So, why'd you bother? Are you trying to point out things that are Obvious in order to increase your town cred? Seriously. What?

1) "Josh is tech" This argument was ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS and made no sense to me.
2) That Josh was rolefishing with his roleclaiming comment about Darox's Innkeeper. I thought it was obvious that Josh was not rolefishing, but saying for no one to roleclaim at all. Spyrex attacked him here for no reason.

Yes, putting 1 (the garbage the scum was spewing) and 2 (the dissonance in his "this is good" "wait, this is bad") is a great idea.

Dingle dangle

Please translate "Dingle dangle" into something I can relate to, like English. I have a feeling I know what you meant, but please clarify.

[SpyreX]

God I hate having to spell out every tiny bit of my thought processes.

Since Josh was a Mafia Doctor, your entire point is, well, Obvious. So, why'd you bother? Are you trying to point out things that are Obvious in order to increase your town cred? Seriously. What?

Considering the discussion earlier with Darox in regards to how the traitor operated, yea it was worth mentioning.

Specifically in this context: Josh was a Mafia Doctor. In order for that role to have ANY real use Josh would have, in fact, had to know who the scum were.

Now, when you take that in conjunction with the absolute absence of mentioning CMAR in a namedrop analysis that raises a flag.

Add to that CMAR's play and you've got a lynch.

Hence, dingle dangle.

BUT, since I know thats not going to be enough lets continue:

Not exactly sure what any of that means. Both arguments were complete crap and on the second one, Josh never rolefished still in my opinion. If I was his mafia buddy, I'd be distancing like crazy right now, but I'm not because I still think you were wrong.

1.) and 2.) have nothing to do with each other. Having them grouped is an absolute disservice and more than a little shady.

1.) was, like I called it at the time, part of the "ohh look, a distraction!" game he was playing. It was an argument about something that had nothing to do with anything but create white noise.

2.) was part of the scumdance he was doing yesterday all day (and you're focusing on the tiniest most arguable part but I'll digress). He instinctively asked for more information, saw that was a REAL bad idea and tried to distance himself from it. When called out on "is that a flavor claim" business and the quick turn around was that whole "I didn't want to open the floodgates to all the town PR's outing themselves seriously guys"

Which, then and now, is garbage. Scum garbage, exactly like I said.

That last sentence there is more of that classic doublespeak- how, HOW, considering your posted stances could you as scum distance yourself from it while under the knife?

You cant. So you have to support it but that looks bad with a scum flip so what does one do?

Ohh, just what you did.

[CryMeARiver]

God I hate having to spell out every tiny bit of my thought processes.

Since Josh was a Mafia Doctor, your entire point is, well, Obvious. So, why'd you bother? Are you trying to point out things that are Obvious in order to increase your town cred? Seriously. What?

Considering the discussion earlier with Darox in regards to how the traitor operated, yea it was worth mentioning.

Specifically in this context: Josh was a Mafia Doctor. In order for that role to have ANY real use Josh would have, in fact, had to know who the scum were.

Now, when you take that in conjunction with the absolute absence of mentioning CMAR in a namedrop analysis that raises a flag.

Add to that CMAR's play and you've got a lynch.

Hence, dingle dangle.

BUT, since I know thats not going to be enough lets continue:

Not exactly sure what any of that means. Both arguments were complete crap and on the second one, Josh never rolefished still in my opinion. If I was his mafia buddy, I'd be distancing like crazy right now, but I'm not because I still think you were wrong.

1.) and 2.) have nothing to do with each other. Having them grouped is an absolute disservice and more than a little shady.

1.) was, like I called it at the time, part of the "ohh look, a distraction!" game he was playing. It was an argument about something that had nothing to do with anything but create white noise.

2.) was part of the scumdance he was doing yesterday all day (and you're focusing on the tiniest most arguable part but I'll digress). He instinctively asked for more information, saw that was a REAL bad idea and tried to distance himself from it. When called out on "is that a flavor claim" business and the quick turn around was that whole "I didn't want to open the floodgates to all the town PR's outing themselves seriously guys"

Which, then and now, is garbage. Scum garbage, exactly like I said.

That last sentence there is more of that classic doublespeak- how, HOW, considering your posted stances could you as scum distance yourself from it while under the knife?

You cant. So you have to support it but that looks bad with a scum flip so what does one do?

Ohh, just what you did.

I do think you are being stupid right now. I was responding to the reason that I said you guys were "picking straws". I said this due to the 2 arguments above. Argument 1 just created noise and Argument 2 no one was fishing. That is how the two are related. Because when I said:

Yes, I think that everyone is picking at straws and completely misinterpreting with the Josh-Spyrex argument and the whole thing is rather ridiculous

these were the arguments I was referring to. Also, you are right, I was pretty much gone for most of the second half of your guys argument because 1. I was V/LA for like a week and a half somewhere in the there and 2. A lot of them were crap arguments that were destroying the game. Now stop distracting me from my ISO with stupid posts like these.

[SpyreX]

Nah. No one was fishing. You're right. Josh was, in fact, tech the whole time and it is absolute sheer random chance I pushed on him and he flipped scum.

Totally. Promise.

[cruelty]

i feel like this has stagnated.

how does everyone feel about a CMAR speedlynch to spice things up?

[Darox]

Actually I'd prefer it if the 7 or so people who are not saying anything at all would actually say something of value.

[ooba]

Re-reading the entire game .. Posting my thoughts in a few ..

[Nobody Special]

i feel like this has stagnated.

how does everyone feel about a CMAR speedlynch to spice things up?

I would be fine switching. Three more and we're there!

[Nobody Special]

EBWOP: I mean, you know, 2 more if I switch.

Also, cruelty, isn't it rather hypocritical of you to say the game has stagnated, since you just got prodded?

[cruelty]

well i guess that'd depend on the reason for my prod - was i bored with the stagnation, or did my inactivity cause said stagnation?

[TheSkeward]

i feel like this has stagnated.

how does everyone feel about a CMAR speedlynch to spice things up?

Unvote; Vote: CryMeARiver

I still think Nobody Special is scummier, but CMAR is a good lynch as well.

[ooba]

Just the vote movement and things I missed during D1..

Read as "Player: Voted for X(Was the nth vote on player at that time),.."

easjo682:

Spyrex(1) -> Josh(1)

Zang:

cruelty(2) -> NoVote -> ooba(2) -> NoVote -> ooba(2) -> Darox(1) -> Josh(7)

Nobody Special:

Darox(1) -> CMAR(2) -> SpyreX (3) -> NoVote -> Josh(5)

cruelty:

SpyreX(2) -> Zang(2) -> ooba(6) -> Josh(4)

TheSkeward:

Zang(1) -> cruelty (2) -> Josh(2)

SpyreX:

cruelty(1) -> ooba(2) -> Josh(3) -> ooba(4) -> Josh(5)

CryMeARiver:

ooba(1) -> Josh(1) -> Yosarian(2) -> Darox(1) -> NS(1)

MagnaofIllusion:

Yosarian(1)-> CMAR(1) -> ooba(4) -> CMAR(2) -> Josh(4) -> Darox (2)

Darox:

NS(1) -> ooba(3) -> SpyreX (1) -> NoVote

Ooba:

SpyreX (1) -> CMAR(3) -> Zang(1) -> NS(3)

Yosarian:

ooba(1) -> CMAR(3) -> NS(2)

Josh:

Darox(1) -> ooba(5) -> SpyreX(2) -> ooba(3) -> SpyreX(2) -> Josh(6)

Post 5:

@Magna

1. Anyone here have any long-standing grudges or odd personal history?

Just curious – what brought about this question?

Post 11:

@TheSkeward

Discuss. Can we break this?

What was this about?

Post 21:

Josh does not random vote. I wonder if anyone noticed that.
Addn: Nobody noticed it or brought any attention to it.

Post 31:

@CMAR
Any reason why you ignored Magna’s initial post – made 4 posts in between and then replied to his questions?

Post 41:

@cruelty
You vote Zang here – no apparent reasoning?? You had already random voted at this stage.

Post 55:

@SpyreX
At this point, there were two votes on CMAR and one on me. Why did you choose to go ahead with my wagon instead of his?

Post 94:

@Cruelty
Why didn’t you vote CMAR here? Subtle pressure without committing to the wagon.

Post 190

Think, long and hard, about how terrible a player I would have to be if I were scum, was one of three people who asked about a flavorclaim, and then immediately called myself out on it a few posts later. It makes no sense.

Which do you think is more likely: That I'm a townie who misspoke, or that I am literally the worst scum player ever?

I LOL’d at this.

Post 232:

@Cruelty
Goodposting by Magna

I think Magna has a good point against cruelty when he posts this:

At this point I'm happy with my vote on Josh for his contradiction and I'm dubious of Magna's softclaim quote.

If you were really dubious you would have said something back with your first response. Any reason why you waited until after the hue and cry from Sprex, Darox and easjo before expressing it?

Cruelty's response was this:

“I did say something, two posts later.”

His original post (i.e the one he is referring to above) was this:

“you're reading way too deeply into that.”

I hardly think that your response shows any signs that you thought Magna's VT quote was dubious at that point.

Post 361:

@The Skeward
Why NS? You did say cruelty would be next on your list in your post on Day 1.

Overall:

I think cruelty is a good bet for scum. His votes have been on the whole opportunistic; lot of filler posts and points mentioned above.

Vote: Cruelty

---

No way in hell he didn't know who the scum were.

Just responding to this since NS also seemed to think this was "obvious". The best interplay for this role would be achieved when Mafia knew Josh but Josh did not know the mafia. Josh would have to try and work out who was scum to protect them - otherwise he'd be protecting town. Mafia would have to try and signal Josh in an overt way so as to not attract attention of town. Tried looking for signals based on this - but couldn't find anything. (Apart from CMAR's "doomed" post but do not think it was a signal)

[TheSkeward]

ooba: I reevaluated my scumreads. I no longer find cruelty terribly scummy.

[SpyreX]

Nah cruelty is fairly neutral these days.

Post 55: @SpyreX
At this point, there were two votes on CMAR and one on me. Why did you choose to go ahead with my wagon instead of his?

Because the idea was competing wagons?