Newbie 937 ~ Mafia Lite [Game Over]

[Red Star]

Unvote

The last thing that I want is for someone to be lynched before the deadline.

[popsofctown]

Read what he said literally

hyuk hyuk.

[Leafsnail]

Unvote

The last thing that I want is for someone to be lynched before the deadline.

Even if they're your strongest scum read? :S.

[horrordude0215]

horrordude0215--you put razorback at L-1. Are you okay with that? Before you mentioned (IIRC) that putting someone at L-1 was a gutsy move and voted for popsofctown because of it. Now you do the same. This may be a bit different, as before you stated that pops was lynching ahoda based on policy lynch, while yours is not (I think). However, I would like an explanation from you on why you should not be suspected for putting someone so close to lynch while pops should (or was).

I didn't see that kelikar had voted for razorback as well... I was looking in the viewing window and I missed his vote I guess, because I thought that Leafsnail was the last vote and I was putting him at L-2. But if you think it's suspect, I can understand why, and I wouldn't blame anyone for voting/Fosing me because of it.

[Exilon]

Ok, sorry I didn't come here before. Suddenly Razorback is at L1, and, well... I can't say I don't agree with it. Although his past experiences (meta) show that he hasn't indeed survived past day 2 (mostly because of policy lynches, which I don't really like; since they can take away from valuable discussion and give a great excuse for scum to not discuss and just lay low), I can't let a player just sit by and do nothing, like he has been doing.

To tell the truth, I don't think Razorback is being overdefensive - each person has its own method of defending themselves. There has been, however, at one or two points, one or two comments from him that didn't fit quite well - and I figured, as he stated, that this could be in part caused to his cautiosness and past experiences. But nothing of the sort seems like being overdefensive - unless I'm getting the meaning of the word wrong.

as for the case of red start i believe he is with out doubt scum. it has been my experience that scum love to twist others words around on them. and this is generally one of the biggest scum tell in the game...

as for myself i'm far from paranoid scum i'm simply trying make to lylo. i have never seen the end of day two as scum or town.. so my goal is get to the end of the game.

Many people quoted this (and I specially liked Leafsnail's reply, which I'd like to second.). Thing is: by stating this, Razorback seems to be stating he doesn't know how to keep himself alive, and really wants to. The first part looks like a weak attempt to contribute to the discussion - but the lack of a vote, as leafsnail stated, is something that sparked my attention.

If he had voted.... it would have shown he was serious about what he said. Since he didn't, it seems blatant that this "without doubt" is bad wording. It comes off as a weak attempt to divert suspicion away.

Just a quick note to Horror's reply. (and his behaviour in general). When replying to Razorback, he said:

How was he twisting your words around?

Kelikar posts a very interesting post after, which provides an example of when Red Star twisted some words around to make Razorback's words sound a little different. In that same post, he points out how horror also twisted what was "obviously" a joke (Ahoda) into what appeared to be a scum slip-up. Interesting part? Horror never addresses any part of that post, still manages to say he hadn't noticed he was putting him at L1 and hasn't even unvoted.

Hum, indeed.

Back to Razorback, just wanted to address this one post which further defies my beliefs Razorback's behaviour is something I can tolerate:

just because i'm trying too get lylo doesn't mean i'm not scum hunting. i'm working fing lurking player's to help question that is a scummy assessment to made. you think i'm doing you pay so litte attention to what i have been working on..........

Razorback, give us one post where you analyzed one player and tried to evaluate his scumminess. Just that is enough for me to believe that what you are saying is true. You can be doing all the scumhunting in the world, but if you don't post it, then it's the same as nothing. You can't accuse someone of paying you little attention without giving one example.

Furthermore, Leafsnail has posed a question which I'd like to second and you haven't even answered.

If you found Red Star scum without a doubt, why didn't you vote him?

Fos: Razorback

And I am aware you are close to L1. Anyway, if you can't respond to what people are asking or defend yourself properly, you'll never be able to get to Lylo, as you say you want.

There's also a quick note I'd like to make to a certain player.
@Red Star:

Unvote
The last thing that I want is for someone to be lynched before the deadline.

Of all the reasons you could have given to unvote, this is your reason?
....Well.... could you please clarify it? As it is right now, I can't help but read it as: "I want for people to be lynched because of the deadline".

Also, I remind you that there's some points you still haven't discussed and that me and Pops have brought up. Even if it was a while I ago, I'd like to mention that you never touched them; while keeping your attention focused on Ahoda.

[horrordude0215]

Horror never addresses any part of that post, still manages to say he hadn't noticed he was putting him at L1 and hasn't even unvoted.

Hum, indeed.

Sorry I'm not 100% focused on this game... I have another game in Lylo with deadline in 2 days and I'm putting most of my effort towards it. I will address any questions you have for me, but I don't have time to really read in depth right now

[razorback]

actually i know have the scum in my sight my game plan was simpe get lynch one.

now listen to very carefully i only did that because i knew redstar would indeed move his vote to look good as town

[KittyMo]

Vote Count XII:

[3] razorback - (Leafsnail, kelikar, horrordude0215)

[1] Red Star - (popsofctown)

[0] ahoda - ()
[0] Exilon - ()
[0] keikar - ()
[0] Kranix - ()
[0] skerterg - ()
[0] popsofctown - ()
[0] Leafnsail - ()
[0] horrordude0215 - ()

[5]

Not voting

- (Exilon, mask man, skerterg, razorback, Red Star)

With

9

alive, it's

5

to lynch!

Deadline is at Wednesday, April 28, 2010 at 4:00:00 PM (Sacramento time)

[skerterg]

SOAP #2
April 20, 2010

This week's theme: Who's Unobvious?

**I didn't do ISO this week, because I felt there weren't too many posts to analyze. Rather, there are a just a few things which I want to focus on.**


Here's the quick ranking:

---Scummiest---

horrordude0215: has been on both wagons for ahoda and razorback; quick to accuse and vote, especially ahoda.
razorback: not contributing to discussion a lot; mostly defends self and talks about staying alive.
mask man: has posted two posts; one just as introduction, the other his initial thoughts.
kelikar: posts analysis of razor and red star; votes for razorback.
popsofctown: accuses skerterg of voting for red star for lurking but not kranix; votes red star; fluff.
Red Star: posts a long ISO on every player so far in the game.
Leafsnail: posts a detailed analysis of his views of the game so far; horror and exilon look town, skerterg and pops scummy, votes razor. Actively scumhunts.
Exilon: more good analysis. FOS razorback.

---Cleanest---


Most notable this past week were the accusations on razorback. He reached within 1 vote of a lynch, before Red Star unvoted. I am quite confident there was at least one mafia on the wagon; razorback is an easy target to pick and get a lynch. However, this does not mean that he cannot be scum; if not for metagaming, he would probably be my top suspect. He does not answer questions and he talks mostly about self-preservation. His statement

now listen to very carefully i only did that because i knew redstar would indeed move his vote to look good as town

is very suspicious. Still you do not vote for your suspect, though you are very certain. If that is the "only" reason you did that, then you still need at least more explanation for why you think he did this, what exactly you thought would happen, and what you would think if he did not do what you anticipated; basically, more input/analysis/elaboration.

I am quite wary of mask man, because he, like his predecessor, has not posted much. By not posting, it is hard for me to judge what side he is on. mask man also has not voted for anyone. I still have a blank column under "mask man (Kranix)" on my list of accusations (Kranix's vote on pop was never counted by Kitty). It would be very bad if all our thoughts and analysis are wasted on a person who has yet to post very meaningfully. Also, his one content post felt incomplete.

Now let's go to the top of my list: horrordude0215.

Unless I'm mistaken, there is only one person who was on both the ahoda and razorback wagon: horrordude0215. His accusations, or more specifically, votes, come quick. So far he has voted for five different people, the most out of anyone. Though scum hunting is not a bad thing, I feel he is trying to stir up some wagons. First was ahoda; kelikar already mentioned how he seemed to be twisting the intention of ahoda's post. After this, he turns his vote to popsofctown, for putting ahoda at L-1. When no one else turned to vote for him, he put the L-1 vote on razorback. Though he may have missed kelikar's vote, that is still a heavy weight to throw, especially when we have already seen it happen before with popsofctown.

There were four people on the razorback wagon. Here is the order in which they voted, from earliest to latest:

Red Star, Leafsnail, kelikar, horrordude0215

Red Star voted for razorback in the very beginning of the game (RVS) and was the one who unvoted. As I mentioned before, I feel that one of the remaining three is mafia. I am letting Leafsnail go for now because of his well-reasoned post and because he is rather new and perhaps unused to razorback.

That leaves two I want to focus on: kelikar and horrordude0215. I think kelikar has been doing a good job with posts and input. However, I feel that he goes for easy targets. Before, it was Kranix, who did not post at all and (I strongly believe) was not even active. Kranix could not defend himself. Now it is razorback, who has gotten a few policy lynches before. The case against him seems too...simplistic. Too easy. I don't think he has voted anyone improperly, or has had much success moving votes on people he would want to lynch. Don't mafia usually try to get people to vote for people they want out? I'm not trying to defend razorback here, but simply state that the case against him is too easy. That is my only complaint with your actions so far; maybe it is not scummy behavior, pursuing those who seem to be unaware of how to avoid lynch (sorry razor), but I feel that way as of now.

Given this information, I feel that it is time for me to

Vote horrordude0215

with an

FOS on kelikar

. mask man I am still waiting for, and razorback I am waiting for to give better elaboration and explanation.


Just for fun, I've tried to imagine some possible pairings based purely on the voting behaviors so far. Here they are:

---Possible scum teams---

horror + kelikar-both vote for razorback. However, I actually think this is unlikely, given that they voted the same person right after another. It is too obvious and/or risky.

horror + Exilon-one votes on many, the other does not. Both voted ahoda.

mask man + anyone-still not much information on him.

kelikar + popsofctown-one votes on wagon and the other does not.

--------------------------

I know that there isn't much to back these up and they are pure speculation, but I want to hear what you all think. What do you think are possible pairings?


Crazy thought of the week: horrordude0215 and Leafsnail/ahoda are a team. That whole thing was a ruse started by horrordude, which ahoda mistook, thus going on his rage and calling people jerks.


Well, I've wasted another big chunk of my night writing my analysis and you've wasted time reading my post! Until next week!

[skerterg]

EBWOP:

A small error: horrordude0215 voted on FOUR different people, not five. He voted razorback earlier (p. 74). He still remains the person who has voted the most out of anyone.

[Red Star]

Of all the reasons you could have given to unvote, this is your reason?
....Well.... could you please clarify it? As it is right now, I can't help but read it as: "I want for people to be lynched because of the deadline".

Also, I remind you that there's some points you still haven't discussed and that me and Pops have brought up. Even if it was a while I ago, I'd like to mention that you never touched them; while keeping your attention focused on Ahoda.

At the moment, it is almost a week before the deadline. I do not want a player to be lynched while there is still discussion possible; the more information, the better. Had I not unvoted, someone may have come in with a hammer, and ended discussion prematurely. That's why I unvoted.

Which points are these, sorry? I must have missed them, could you quote them for me?

[razorback]

triple post blah blah

~KittyMo

[razorback]

double post blah blah

~KittyMo

[razorback]

first things first

vote redstar

now sceond thing is i hav to iso redstar from my main computer.

[razorback]

dam it i can't get my iso system to run... on my computer i can't prove my case what good is that. the town if at all any good to myself hepling the town.

[Exilon]

WHAT THE-- MS LOGGED ME OFF AND I LOST THIS GREAT POST OMGFFFFFFFFF-

.... Ok, now I am annoyed.

At the moment, it is almost a week before the deadline. I do not want a player to be lynched while there is still discussion possible; the more information, the better. Had I not unvoted, someone may have come in with a hammer, and ended discussion prematurely. That's why I unvoted.

Which points are these, sorry? I must have missed them, could you quote them for me?

Thanks, it's clearer now.
As for the points; my PS169 and the next two replies by Razorback and Pops:

ow, let's see here. To remind, pops adressed Red Star's posts after and commented, "I think Red Star is pot-stirring while trying not to stick his neck out. I've got my eye on him.", FoS'ing him; Red Star does answer that that is because he's not trying to raise suspicions, but rather get discussion going.
But why would a person who wants to get discussion going retract upon my comment about his initial " possible suspicion"? Sure, it was a joke - but how does "maybe you are suspicious" "why?" "it was a joke, nevermind" contribute to get discussion going? Simply put, it doesn't; and that doesn't make much sense. It's like, if we follow what he said, he was trying to start discussion with the REST of the players but himself. Also, to notice, is that he didn't answer anything I posted after his first quote.
Not "why is it suspicious?" nor "have you noticed there's someone else with two people on them?". I do point that out briefly after it (Ps91:"Err... ok? I find that slightly wrong... but... "), but that's when Ahoda comes in, and suddenly that's where the focus is.

@ EXILON of all our players redstar has been avoids many things. and of course i know i have as we but somthings just can't be answered.

unvote, vote Red Star

For what he originally got an FoS for.

Now, Razorback.

dam it i can't get my iso system to run... on my computer i can't prove my case what good is that. the town if at all any good to myself hepling the town.

This whole sentence is really unclear, but oh well.
So, we ask why you haven't voted for your top suspect and instead of justifiying yourself, you vote. Without any kind of added content.

I ask for a PAST POST where you have scumhunted to verify your claim that it was being missed because of lack of attention, and you tell me "there's no way to prove my case on Red Star because the iso system isn't working"?

Ok, let me get this straight. By not giving me any example of what I asked, you're proving my point, which means your previous accusation of someone not paying enough attention is wrong.

And now your words read as if you didn't have any notes on Red Star - which means, no case. Even if you had the notes, it would be a matter of Copy / Paste. There would be no need to ISO - but you're saying you need to do so, so that leaves me to believe you were going to build something.

It's like you're trying to excuse yourself over and over again, but not being able to provide decent reasoning - because it's not there. And it seems to show.
If I'm wrong, explain yourself. (and please clarify that quote)

Oh, and in case you don't know how to ISO someone:
At the bottom of the page, there's this thing that reads "Display posts from previous: [all posts] by [all users] [oldest first] Go is not implemented yet."
If you click on All Users, a dropdown menu will appear which lets you choose to view all the posts from a single player. (Don't forget to click "go" afterwards.)

If something seems a little off or incoherent, it's possible I missed it because I had to write the post from scratch. As always, if you find anything, please point it out

[horrordude0215]

Unless I'm mistaken, there is only one person who was on both the ahoda and razorback wagon: horrordude0215.

I started the accusations on both ahoda and razorback. I was the first to point out Razor's overdefensiveness, but when I saw what I think is a slipup from ahoda, I switched my vote.

His accusations, or more specifically, votes, come quick. So far he has voted for five different people, the most out of anyone. Though scum hunting is not a bad thing, I feel he is trying to stir up some wagons.

Let's look at my votes.

Exilion - RVS vote
Razorback - Overdefensiveness
ahoda - I saw a slipup.
pops - Putting ahoda at L-1 and then asking for a replacement.

First was ahoda; kelikar already mentioned how he seemed to be twisting the intention of ahoda's post.

I'm going to say this again... I saw a slipup in ahoda's vote and pressured him for it. Even you agreed that his constant ignoring of my comments/questions were scummy... why don't you still think this?

After this, he turns his vote to popsofctown, for putting ahoda at L-1. When no one else turned to vote for him, he put the L-1 vote on razorback.

Wrong. I didn't switch my vote from pops just because no one else was looking at him. I still suspect him, in fact, but I saw razor's scummyness to be more deserving of my vote.

Though he may have missed kelikar's vote, that is still a heavy weight to throw, especially when we have already seen it happen before with popsofctown.

I agree that it's a bit of a stretch, and I probably can't convince you of it, but that's what happened.

Crazy thought of the week: horrordude0215 and Leafsnail/ahoda are a team.

Why are you including Leafsnail in your possible teams? Didn't you just say

I am letting Leafsnail go for now because of his well-reasoned post and because he is rather new and perhaps unused to razorback.

I would like an explanation for this, if possible.

[Leafsnail]

first things first

vote redstar

now sceond thing is i hav to iso redstar from my main computer.

What has he done since your last post to merit your vote?

Or are you merely voting because you've come under pressure for

not

voting?

[kelikar]

Going V/LA until the 24th with possible computer access, but I'll only be able to take quick notes if I check the thread.

Noted! You won't be prodded if you don't post during that time! Thanks for letting me know! ~KittyMo

[razorback]

no i tryed to iso on my compter and didn't work. so i'll bee forced to unvote with no evidence to hold up my case.

[Leafsnail]

You don't need an ISO... you can go through the thread and check his behaviour.

[razorback]

i'm awre of that but i like to have proof to hole my vote up at least that way i don't get for not having when someone is lynched.

it's far worse when pepole have no case when they lynch someone at least from all the games i played and everything i have learned. i took that much from all i have seen in this place and try my best present a case when i vote.

[Leafsnail]

Yes, but you SHOULD HAVE A CASE BEFORE VOTING ANYWAY. Even if it's not fully coherent, you must have a reason you voted Red Star... unless you were planning on voting him first and finding a reason to do so later?

[KittyMo]

Vote Count XIII:

[3] razorback - (Leafsnail, kelikar, horrordude0215)

[2] Red Star - (popsofctown, razorback)
[1] horrordude0215 - (skerterg)

[0] ahoda - ()
[0] Exilon - ()
[0] keikar - ()
[0] Kranix - ()
[0] skerterg - ()
[0] popsofctown - ()
[0] Leafnsail - ()

[3]

Not voting

- (Exilon, mask man, Red Star)

With

9

alive, it's

5

to lynch!

Deadline is at Wednesday, April 28, 2010 at 4:00:00 PM (Sacramento time)

Prods & Replacements

mask man is proddable.

?A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it.? ~ Oscar Wilde

[razorback]

yes well i'll find my case if i make it that far i do think hae is scum. and need's to be lynched before he does any harm to the town and then theres is the chance i'm wrong. and i get it shorttly after.