mini 943- Greek Mythology! (And the winner is... ?)

[Iecerint]

Maybe in a bit. Not right now, unless you have a good reason for wanting it right now.

In the short term, I'm waiting to see if (namely) anyone claims a successful RB N1.

[Shadow Dancer]

Normally I would not believe Almas claim, but Ooba seems to confirm his Vig ability (even if it does not state "Vig" explicitely in the description). Ooba is the goddes of wisdom, so it is plausible that his ability grants him some kind of knowledge, maybe about other players' role description/abilities... Only thing that does not fit in for me is the fact that we only had one victim. That could mean there is a doctor/protector role of some kind. On the other, hand we do not even know for sure, that mafia has to kill in this game to win (Correct me, if I am wrong), so it could be some hidden mechanic.

I'll leave it like that for now... Definitely worth some further observation.

The double night thing is also interesting, it shows us that there are powers in this game that deviate far from any standard roles.

Seriously, this is all confusing...

[Shadow Dancer]

Does Alma losing his power mean we got a scum vig now?!

[AlmasterGM]

My ability wasn't actually called "Vig," it was worded the way ooba described it. I just said Vig keep it simple and avoid sticky quote-the-role-PM issues.

Also, I used my super ability last night. I'm not sure where my normal ability went, but it's not like I died - it just got replaced with a new ability.

Anyway,

Vote: Jack

. I was going to Vig him last night but I thought it'd be better to smoke someone who was relatively quiet and I had less of a read on.

[Andrius]

@ Alm: I'm confused. Why'd you kill Snow_Bunny? I'll understand if she was scummy, in your eyes, but it just came off as random, and you didn't defend your action, so I am confused.

but I thought it'd be better to smoke someone who was relatively quiet and I had less of a read on.

Ok, but you didn't just "smoke" her, you "exploded" her, to quote the mod's scene.

As for the dual night, I initially thought it was the scum, since scum obviously benefit more from the NP (an extra NK) but since it was a no-kill night, that theory was destroyed.

No mention of the word Vig - his normal power is killing one person per night (unless he is blocked or they are protected).

Well, I don't think it would say in his role pm: Vigilante, just as VV's probably didn't say: Alignment Cop. Its not in the flavor, to have 'cops' and 'doctors' and 'vigilantes' in teh Greek scene.

That could mean there is a doctor/protector role of some kind.

I would think that there would be some type of 'Doctor' role in the game; it seems silly not to have one.

[AlmasterGM]

I killed SB because I like to Vig people that I have a fairly neutral read on. The fact that SB was also not incredibly active also influenced my decision.

[Jack]

You like to vig people who you have a

neutral

read on?

I'm having a hard time believing that almaster isn't just inventing reasons here. ooba, can you explain more about the vig power thing?

[Iecerint]

I want FF and JJH to come play. Plum, too. Do they know the day is back?

[AlmasterGM]

You like to vig people who you have a

neutral

read on?

This game makes me want to be Vig more, a lot more. I played it a lot like I play the doc: Get results on people you don't have necessarily a read on early on, or someone you have a hunch on (DRK). Continuing scumhunting on people you think are scum (to get them lynched), and then later, if need be, vig/investigate them (Jason).

A lot of people use investigations to enhance their scumhunting - aka, people attack people and then, when they find out their result, they either let off if they are town, or keep pushing if mafia. Personally, I find that extremely telling. It'd be like if I was pushing for a DRK lynch at deadline and he showed up dead in the night. Thus, practically giving me away as Vig/SK. In the same way, cops would be obvious to spot if they received a town result on a lynch they were pushing, and then stopped pressing. Also, if I vig/investigate a person I don't have a particular good read on/hunch, the result will help with relationships. For example, if I receive an investigate result that I am not pushing defending yet, I can see how people interact with that person, and see bussing/defending. If I vig said type of person, I can see how the information piles up and what not with regards to people's relationships with that person.

I would rather let my own scumhunting run its cource while also using my PR as a bonus - sort of like 'student athlete', the two words enhance each other as I am a 'town (responsible for scumhunting) vig (NK ability)'. I find myself to be an OK scumhunter, and would rather use my investigation/vig on people I don't have a strong scum read on, because I feel I can get a lynch of said scummy individual during the day than wasting a night action to confirm.

[Jack]

You're quoting someone other than you, who says they didn't want to kill their top suspect because that would reveal them as vig. You were already revealed as vig though.

Or are you ryan2754??

[AlmasterGM]

If you were me, who would you have vigged?

[Johoohno]

Vote: Almaster

I don't think I would play a vig like you did in your referenced game, but I certainly don't agree with using it like you did in this game: killing people you have a neutral read on, where everyone have powers. Why not go for your top scums then? Since you are scum?!

[Jack]

If you were me, who would you have vigged?

Top suspect. If you don't vig top suspect, your chances of killing a townie go up. Are you the ryan274 guy or not?

[AlmasterGM]

No, we are different people.

Anyway, I disagree with your assessment. I would much rather Vig someone who was quiet and I had no read on than someone who we could put on the lynchwagon the next day. Lynching quiet/neutral people doesn't get you anything. Lynching the loud and polarized does.

And you haven't even given an argument as to why you Vig the top suspect. You just say "it's obvious." It's not obvious at all. You don't cop your #1 suspect and you don't Vig them either.

But, in retrospect, I should have known you were going to spew this garbage again today and vigged you. Once again, there your analysis is terribad - it's like, "I disagree with your vigging MO, autoscum." Do you feel the same way about people who like/don't like the RVS? Or how people use their cop investigations? How does me making a Vig you disagree with make me SCUM?

[Iecerint]

^ By the same token, vigging quiet players doesn't get you anything, whereas vigging loud and polarizing players does. I think you're also analogizing vig with either lynching of investigating depending upon where it best supports your position (i.e. rather than because a given analogy is most sound).

[Jack]

Because you

didn't

make a vig I disagree with, you didn't make a vig at all, because you lied about being the vig, and you're now making excuses for why there was only one death...even going so far as to quote random people in your support.

Unless ooba can can shine a drastically new light on things, but I doubt it.

[Iecerint]

Thread needs input from these players:

Flava Flav
Plum
Lord_Chronos
Andy

LC has posted, but it sort of doesn't count innit.

[Andrius]

I like to Vig people that I have a fairly neutral read on.

Kind of twisted logic; I'd personally whack who I thought were scum first, since scum are a threat to the town.

Do they know the day is back?

I don't remember if DN sent out a mass PM saying it was D3. They probably forgot.

Andy

lol
First time I've been called Andy here. XD I like it.
But I posted above, #529, Iecerint.

[LordChronos]

Well, right now I am really not liking Almaster's play. Assuming he was the vig, it doesn't make sense for him to vig a player he was neutral on. Moreover, the fact that he brought out that quote about vigging neutral reads that doesn't even apply to his case is scummy. Add to that his scummy play on Day 1, and I get more of a scum than a vig feel from him.

The only question I have is what that means regarding ooba's confirm that he did in fact have a kill power.

@Iec

I also would like to know what you meant when you said you would deal with Shadow Dancer.

@Almaster

Can you link me a game you have played as vig where you made this kind of kill? Preferably multiple games?

[AlmasterGM]

Because you didn't make a vig I disagree with, you didn't make a vig at all, because you lied about being the vig, and you're now making excuses for why there was only one death...even going so far as to quote random people in your support.

Are you even reading the thread? When have I EVER made ANY "excuse" for why there was only one death? Moreover, ooba CONFIRMED that I had the Vig ability, so you're hissy fit that I'm lying about it is flat out untrue.

And now, after all that, you're saying you actually

like

the shot. What the hell is going on here?

[AlmasterGM]

@Almaster

Can you link me a game you have played as vig where you made this kind of kill? Preferably multiple games?

I have only been a Vig once before and it was one-shot dayvig, not regular Vig (the game is Red Coyote's "Precision Mafia" - it is on this page if you want to read it). I did NOT use it the way I did in this game - to the contrary, I used it on my top suspect. And then everyone bitched about it being a bad shot afterwards. So I decided to do some research and switch things up for this game.

[Iecerint]

Hmm. I can sorta buy the above. I didn't like his shot on Precision mafia because he killed one of my only town reads, but it's true that he got some criticism from his use of his ability there.

[Jack]

Because you didn't make a vig I disagree with, you didn't make a vig at all, because you lied about being the vig, and you're now making excuses for why there was only one death...even going so far as to quote random people in your support.

Are you even reading the thread? When have I EVER made ANY "excuse" for why there was only one death? Moreover, ooba CONFIRMED that I had the Vig ability, so you're hissy fit that I'm lying about it is flat out untrue.

And now, after all that, you're saying you actually

like

the shot. What the hell is going on here?

1) I'm saying there was only one death because you didn't have a vig power. As I said before it makes no sense in this game. As a non-vig, you have to claim that the only kill was done by you, so you make up excuses for having "killed" snow bunny.

2) He said you had some sort of kill ability, but explicitly said it didn't say a vig ability.

3) I didn't say I liked the "shot", I said I couldn't disagree with a shot that I don't think was even made. That was the point of "you didn't make a vig at all"

[Jack]

Hmm. I can sorta buy the above. I didn't like his shot on Precision mafia because he killed one of my only town reads, but it's true that he got some criticism from his use of his ability there.

The criticism doesn't at all seem to be along the lines of "kill your neutral reads".

[ooba]

I'm having a hard time believing that almaster isn't just inventing reasons here. ooba, can you explain more about the vig power thing?

I know that he had the power as I described it - he can kill a person per night unless they are protected or he is blocked. Other than that, I know nothing about AlGm, including role name or super confirmation.