Riddle Me This! NY111 - mafia dead - Town wins!

[DeathNote]

Vote Count

PaltryExcuse- Anon, Yosarian2 (L-7)
Furcolow- dahill1, mipe, dizzyizzyB13 (L-6)
Yosarian2- Quagmire (L-8)
Quagmire- inHimshallibe (L-8)
Anon- iamausername, Shanba (L-7)
VasudeVa- PaltryExcuse (L-8)
mipe- RichardGHP (L-8)
inHimshallibe- TheFonz (L-8)
RichardGHP- VasudeVa, scottmany12, Furcolow (L-6)

Not Voting:

Mr. Chaos, zoraster

With 17 alive, its 9 to lynch.

~What walks all day on its head?~

[dahill1]

unvote vote InHim

Wasn't a big fan Day 1, still am not. Especially his most recent post: "I WAS gonna vote ksun..but I thought I GHP still had a chance of being lynched..but then obvtown Fonz pointed out that ksun was the better lynch and other people joined so.."

Sorry I would give more reasons but my finger is sprained so i'm only typing with one hand.
Basically, his actions so far this game have been very opportunistic IMO

[inHimshallibe]

Geez, I need to do some actual hunting of my own. No time for that on the clock, though, just another response:

That's a twist of what I said, dahill.

I thought RGHP was a better wagon than mipe. I thought the same of ksun. If I were voting who I thought was scummiest, I would have been on Quag all day, but that was (and still is) going nowhere, so what use is a vote there? RGHP was all over the place when I unvoted mipe, twitching like a possibly nervous scum, so I headed there. The Fonz pointed to ksun, and I thought it was a better wagon to lynch a "not helpful" player.

and other people joined so.."

No one else voted ksun between The Fonz and I, so I'm not sure what that part means.

Explain to me my "opportunism," dahill. I think you're confusing the "o"-word with my fluidity of thought and vote.

Day 1, I vote where my mindset is at that point, and playing with thoughts on your sleeves is a town play in my books. If you were making a poster child for thinking with your vote, I'm one of the top candidates. If I think one wagon will develop into something good, that's where I'll be. If I realize the bait on a wagon is bad, then I jump off that wagon and get to another.

[Shanba]

IHSIB, afer you had voted and then unvoted him because you thought he might have been a nervous scum, you then pushed him a little when I was pushing him and so I asked you what you thought his alignment was. You said you thought he was town, despite the fact that you seemed to agree with parts of my analysis and you had voted him earler, too, indicating you had at least at one point thought he was scum.

What's going on there?

[Yosarian2]

Ok, I was away for the weekend, I'm back now.
I have to say, I like the logic behind the Anon wagon. Iamusername's arguments in post 792 comparing the way he treated the mipe wagon and the way he treated the ksun wagon seems strong to me.

My current scumlist

Strong town read

:
DizzyIzzyB13
Va
I think both are almost certainly town, because I give the two of them the most credit for pushing the ksun wagon over the top with deadline looming. Izzy especially.
The Fonz: Basically started the ksun wagon. Has also seemed very much his normal logical pro-town self.
Shanba: Mostly gut and meta at this point, but I'd be very surprised if he fliped scum.

Town read:

mipe: I wish he would contribute more, but I think it's unlikely he's scum at this point. He's especally unlikely to be scum with ksun, I think.

Mr. Chaos

Thestatusquo

: I had a strong town read on Shea early on. Hope to hear from his replacement soon.

scotmany12: I agree with most of his plays so far this game. He feels town to me.

Furclaw: While FeFi was on my suspect list, I think FurClaw's play so far has felt very strongly town. He's very agressive; taking big risks that he really dosn't need to, he's kind of all over the place, he's taking the time to go back and read ancient games to try to get a read on other players (honestly, there's no way in hell he faked that whole thing with Space Monkey Mafia).

Mildly town:

Quagmire: Not an easy guy to read. His day 1 play looked very much like town-quagmire to me. However, not really impressed with his day 2 play so far.

Iamusername: As I said, I like his attack on Anon today. He also voted ksun yesterday. Otherwise, his content has been a bit thin and his post count low, but for now I'll put him in the "more likely town then not" category. Don't really have a lot of confidence in this read though.

Neutral:

Dahill: A few posts of his sound pro-town-ish to me, on an iso read through. He voted ksun. I like his post where he said "I don't agree with Quagmire but I do think he sincerly thinks Korts is scum", because that's about what I was thinking at that point of the day. All in all, his content is a little too thin to get a real read on him.

inHimshallibe: Want more content from him. He moved his vote around a lot day 1; he ended up on the ksun wagon. His explanation for his vote moves he gave just now sounds plausible. His constant suspicion of Quag could be genuine, or it could be not; I really can't tell.

zoraster: Whenever I make one of these lists, there's always one guy who I'm like 'Huh. He's in the game? I forgot'. This time, it's Zoraster. Reading his posts in iso, he voted Scot for reasons I don't really like, joined the ksun wagon, and that's about it. Posted in thread that the reason for his low activity was "fostering a couple of kittens", heh.

Probably Scum

: I actually think I've already explained all of these already, so I won't repeat myself here. Suffice to say that would like to lynch one of these today, preferable Paltry or Richard.

Anon
RichardGHP
PaltryExcuse

[Furcolow]

yosarian2 is right about me being town,
I feel we should conduct a beneficial mass-roleclaim. It will help the town, and it would be cool. Sure, we might lose a lot of power roles in one night, but it would be fun to put up a fight. If we had multiple claims of certain roles we can limit it down to who scum are, too. If everyone is claiming VT, we can investigate or lynch them.

[Furcolow]

unvote vote InHim

Wasn't a big fan Day 1, still am not. Especially his most recent post: "I WAS gonna vote ksun..but I thought I GHP still had a chance of being lynched..but then obvtown Fonz pointed out that ksun was the better lynch and other people joined so.."

Sorry I would give more reasons but my finger is sprained so i'm only typing with one hand.
Basically, his actions so far this game have been very opportunistic IMO

I disagree with this. Fonz is not as obv town as you think. Based upon a game I played with him, he tends to take the leadership role of the town when he is town aligned moreso than he is in this game. I have my eye on him, but not heavy FoS yet.

[RichardGHP]

Massclaim on Day 2?



Also, the answer to the latest riddle is "A nail in a horseshoe" if I recall my riddles correctly.

Also, Furcolow, asnwer my question ASAP please.

[Mr. Chaos]

This was supposed to be up last night. I'm quite glad it was not. (Read above)

However, My read has been good. I plan to try and iso my scumlist within the next day or so (busy with another game's reads as well, not the best position.) Since we're discussing reads right now, I think I'll add mine to the table.

-Town read-

-Shanba: I'm getting a pretty good read here, most of his posts follow what I've been seeing in the game. Not too much wrong here.
-Fonzie: Pretty cool dude. Not really seeing anything wrong with his posts or oppinions.
-scot: Even though he became a bit quiet d-2, really don't see too much wrong with his play.
-Yos: Nearly forgot about him while finishing the neutral section (sorry.) I really do like his analysis of Richard and Paltry.

-Neutral-

-Izzy: I really don't know what she's doing in this game. Everything I'm reading off of her is coming up null. She does not post much, and hung onto spring even after she disappeared. I may do a iso on her sometime later too.
-mipe: what is this i dont even
-Quagmire: Seems rather bullish to me. His constant pushing of a Korts-lynch d-1 didn't sit right to me during my readthrough. However, considering how he was pushing Kortscum through about 2 bandwagons reads more confused townie to me, than scum.
-Zoraster: Been mostly absent though my readthrough, which really leaves me empty handed for any opinions of him.
IHSIB: Really not sure what inHim is doing in this game either. He doesn't seem to be particularly helpful so far, but I think he deserves a good iso at somepoint too.
-Dahill: Normally, I would consider him more townish, but he has been absent as of late, and hasn't provided as much for d-2, making a read rather hard.
-VaVa: Not the heaviest poster, or the most active, but he has not really pinged my radar too much.

-Mafia/SK?-

-Anon: Eh? What do you mean that my replacing Shea is "ironic" in any way? Anyways, his play is borderline scum, in his ISO I can clearly see that all he's doing is jumping around on votes and not really adding anything.
-RichardGPH: It's like hes got mexican jumping beans in his pants. There's something wierd about it, too, so I'll have to look into him later.
-Furcolow: This guy's been pinging my radar left and right since he arrived. First with his "if im wrong with my vote plz lynch me kthx" post, now a "lets all massclaim d-2" really makes my opinion of him sink low.


So I'm really disliking Furcolow's play in this right now.
Fur: Can you please explain why your asking for a massclaim, and why you think that's a remotely good idea d-2? Or why asking for a Self-Lynch if Richard and IHSIB flip town?

[The Fonz]

Furc- what part of 'Don't make reference to ongoing games' don't you get?

[inHimshallibe]

Mr. Chaos, I appreciate you catching up and all, but a list from least scummy to most scummy would have been more helpful than the vagueness you just gave us all.

Welcome to the game.

Alright, so I'll finally have time to do some catch-up work at lunch, hallelujah.

[inHimshallibe]

Bah to lunch, satellite delay coming now, so long as work doesn't interfere.

[inHimshallibe]

Korts and sora's deaths mean they were on to something that made mafia(s) feel threatened. With Korts, I see two things... or Quag pushing for Korts to seem town.

I can't say I'm surprised by the Korts kill. With the townKorts flip, this obviously means we should look at Quagmire (one of the frontrunners for Korts' lynch).

Alright, so neither of these points make much sense, but you all mentioned them, so...

@Vas and RGHP: did either of you follow up looking at Quagmire, or were you not really serious in what you said here?

Well, Quagscum is likely partner with one of these two.

[inHimshallibe]

Secondly, there was very little late movement in the wagons. The only movement there was was me off ksun and onto Ricky and zoraster onto ksun. In a twenty player game, that's almost nothing. While bussing is possible (and even fairly likely given the way ksun played on day 1) surely there must have been some scum who were not on the wagon - and what were they doing? Looking at the players who were not on the ksun wagon - tsq is inactive and probably needs replacement, Yos2 was pushing hard, mipe didn't post that whole time and neither did paltry or FFFF. Scot dropped his previously high posting rate about a week before deadline an basically stopped posting at all. So basically, everyone who was on the counterwagons dropped off the face of the planet at the crucial point.

This was overall a very :goodposting: by Shanba, and I wanted to address this part.

scotmany12-

springlullaby

, zoraster (L-9)
dahill1-

Thestatusquo

Mr. Chaos (L-10)
mipe - PaltryExcuse, VasudeVad, Korts, ksun482, sorasagoof, RichardGHP, FeFiFoFum (L-4)
Korts - Quagmire (L-10)
RichardGHP- scotmany12, Mipe, Yosarian2 (L-8)
ksun482- Shanba, dahill1, The Fonz, inHimshallibe (L-8)
sorasagoof- iamausername (L-10)
Paltry Excuse- Anon (L-10)

scotmany12- zoraster (L-10)
dahill1-

Thestatusquo

Mr. Chaos (L-10)
mipe - PaltryExcuse, VasudeVad, ksun482, sorasagoof, RichardGHP, FeFiFoFum (L-5)
RichardGHP- scotmany12, Mipe, Yosarian2, Quagmire, korts (L-6)
ksun482- Shanba, dahill1, The Fonz, inHimshallibe, iamausername (L-6)
Paltry Excuse- Anon (L-10)

scotmany12- zoraster (L-10)
dahill1-

Thestatusquo

Mr. Chaos (L-10)
mipe - PaltryExcuse, ksun482, sorasagoof, FeFiFoFum (L-7)
RichardGHP- scotmany12, Mipe, Yosarian2, Quagmire, korts, (L-6)
ksun482- Shanba, dahill1, The Fonz, inHimshallibe, iamausername, Anon, RichardGHP, DizzyIzzyB13, VasudeVad (L-2)

dahill1-

Thestatusquo

Mr. Chaos (L-10)
mipe - PaltryExcuse, ksun482, sorasagoof, FeFiFoFum (L-7)
RichardGHP- scotmany12, Mipe, Yosarian2, Quagmire, korts, Shanba (L-5)
ksun482- dahill1, The Fonz, inHimshallibe, iamausername, Anon, RichardGHP, DizzyIzzyB13, VasudeVad, Zoraster (L-2)

To me, I don't feel a scum would move as late as zoraster did. It's by no means a town tell, just why move your vote when you could lurk to the lynch?

The lurkiness of the others that you've mentioned really draws my attention. PaltryExcuse is quickly climbing to my vote; after I've caught up, I don't suppose a bandQuagon will be in the works, and will probably move here.

My next order of business will be to address one my comments in Day 1 after our glorious replacements came in. I have to go train someone first, though. Be back in a bit.

[VasudeVa]

Town needs more consensus. I'm a bit irked by lack of it. We are totally ignoring the whole team game aspect of Mafia. Plus, all these walls make reading a bitch. I still haven't learned how to filter bullshit from huge walls that make sense. >.>.

Right now, I'm fine with either Richard or Anon but Furcolow and Paltry is totally out of the question right now. If anything, those look like a baby scumdriven wagons(Hi mipe! Hi Anon!). I will never support what I think is a scumdriven wagon. Inhim looks promising too.

@iamusername: Why does the Anon case not apply to Richard?

[zoraster]

Okay. Let's try a game reboot for ol' Zoraster.

My thoughts are these, keeping in mind that it all starts to blur together after 5 or 6 pages:

1. People accusing Yos of tunneling aren't reading him right. Yos has articulated multiple targets, but he has, sensibly identified a couple that he thinks are strongest. Whether you agree with this or not, I think it's a big stretch to say he's tunneled just because he's got a strong feeling about people.

2. That said, Paltry does not come across that scummy to me. Why would he attract attention to himself by continuing to argue that ksun was a policy lynch, not a "real" lynch, when it scum? It seems to me that's the type of thing that scum would not want to do.

3. Richard looks like a solid lynch candidate to me. But before I do that, I need to ask him: who exactly are all those people that are "twice as scum-like" as you? You've focused on mipe, but you just make this claim here without anything to back it up.

4. Mass claim today is premature, and I see little reason to force it.

5. Mipe, though, should be forced to claim. He's been soft-claiming, and it doesn't make sense to leave it as a soft-claim.

Those are my thoughts for now. I'll wait from Richard to make some voting decisions. I also need to evaluate Fonz, who has caught my eye, but I'm not sure why just yet.

[inHimshallibe]

IHSIB, afer you had voted and then unvoted him because you thought he might have been a nervous scum, you then pushed him a little when I was pushing him and so I asked you what you thought his alignment was. You said you thought he was town, despite the fact that you seemed to agree with parts of my analysis and you had voted him earler, too, indicating you had at least at one point thought he was scum.

What's going on there?

I said "Town/Town" because that's how little spats like those work out.

After the quick jump on RGHP after The Fonz voted for ksun, I gave RGHP town credit. That little exchange at the end of the Day was me being contrary, egging RGHP on a bit. You'll notice my ":gasp:" after one of his posts as well.

Vas, did you see my question to you earlier?

[VasudeVa]

@InHim: If everyone weren't bringing up such good points against you, it would have been easier for me to blindly follow you. Quag isn't on my priority list right now, in retrospect my suspicion on him was mostly tainted by OMGUS and that's never good. I want to focus more on these guys who are currently taking heat and not add a new and would-probably-be-unsupported wagon.

[scotmany12]

Also, Furcolow, asnwer my question ASAP please.

It's funny. You call everyone else a hypocrite, and here you are telling people to answer your questions when you never once responded to my case against you, or even asnwered my questions here:

Richard, Why are you voting for mipe? I mean you have this one post at the start of the day talking about how we should analyze the kills, and say we should look at people who pushed at both korts and sora (which is full of wifom) and then you go on and vote mipe. Why? Why not follow up on what you said in the post about analyzing the night kills?

Voting for mipe for reasons posted on D1 etc etc

So answer my questions. Why have you not followed up on what you said about analyzing the night kills?

2. That said, Paltry does not come across that scummy to me. Why would he attract attention to himself by continuing to argue that ksun was a policy lynch, not a "real" lynch, when it scum? It seems to me that's the type of thing that scum would not want to do.

I don't like this. It basically just comes down to pure wifom here. I think it is perfectly viable that scum would try to play off the ksun lynch as a policy lynch.

5. Mipe, though, should be forced to claim. He's been soft-claiming, and it doesn't make sense to leave it as a soft-claim.

I also don't agree with this. He isn't anywhere near close to lynch, and I don't see any good coming out of him claiming.

Reading fonz's case on inhim right now.

[zoraster]

I don't like this. It basically just comes down to pure wifom here. I think it is perfectly viable that scum would try to play off the ksun lynch as a policy lynch.

Well, I agree with that BEFORE the lynch happened. But after? Why, as scum, wouldn't you play it off as a "surprising" good lynch or whatever? I just don't see the gain. I mean, it's possible it's WIFOM, but WIFOM is only good insofar as it's picked up by others. I kind of doubt that Paltry thought, "okay. I'm going to say it was a policy lynch which might make me look scummy, but then someone will say that because it makes me look scummy, I'm not scummy." It's just so hypothetical at the time he says it.

I also don't agree with this. He isn't anywhere near close to lynch, and I don't see any good coming out of him claiming.

It's good because he's soft claimed. Repeatedly. If he hadn't done this, then yeah.. we'd be crazy to have him claim right now. But this soft-claim business makes me very uneasy.

[inHimshallibe]

I've been rereading and just got to the part where the ksun votes start to pile up. I assume you're going off the mod's vote counts, but the order in those is wrong. ksun votes after mine went Dizzy -> Vas -> Richard -> Anon -> zoraster.

So basically, switch Anon and Vas in your analysis, because Vas is town, and Anon was bussing. On that note:

Vote: Anon

I was just looking over that votecount again. Thanks for this.

mipe, Yosarian2, and either Shanba/Shea.

Yosarian2's accusation of me seems timely rather than legitimate. If he can explain his case against me beyond 'he is acting scummy' that'd be great.

Shanba is a continuation of the confusion I felt from him near the end of Day 1, but his ideas on Shea made me feel much better about him and convinced me slightly. Makes my mind go one or the other.

RichardGHP is a fourth, but I'm doubting a bus from Yosarian unless RichardGHP is a weak mafia member (just a goon or something).

I really like your response to your accusations. Seems genuine, and I no longer want to vote you. Do you really think these people are linked with VasudeVa, or are they all just top scum choices? I'm looking for connections, and you really didn't give me anything new to consider.

Hm.

@Vas: Feeling a very pro-town vibe from that response. Second, what do you think are the best points brought up against me?

[inHimshallibe]

I already said that I think RichardG and FeFiFo are likely scumbuddies of PE. I'm not sure who a fourth one would be; most likely there's someone on the scum group who wasn't on the mipe wagon yesterday, but it could be any one of a number of people.

Fair enough.

Suppose you're right about RGHP - if there is a bus vote in there, who is it from?

[scotmany12]

Okay, I think there are much better wagons than inhim at this point. I think inhim's response to the attack against him are very townlike. I would like him to respond to this part of the fonz's attack:

To this point, InHim has not mentioned mipe, and he gives no reason for finding mipe scummy. He states in the same post that he thinks you are trying to play clean, and that he thinks Cody is a fool and probably a 'wolf,' presumably meaning scum though he's undoubtedly going to correct me on this if i'm wrong. The later post where he says 'You're actually scum' confirms this. He also talks about how his suspicion on scot is mostly gut.

The Fonz pointed to ksun, and I thought it was a better wagon to lynch a "not helpful" player.

Was your only reasoning for putting your vote on ksun was that he was a "not helpful" player?

And I eagerly await inhim to get to this:

Also, I've not forgotten about those quick Richard votes, either - I've yet to really make a substantive post this Day, still working around a busy schedule.

Want to see what he thinks about those quick richard votes.

unvote vote InHim

Wasn't a big fan Day 1, still am not. Especially his most recent post: "I WAS gonna vote ksun..but I thought I GHP still had a chance of being lynched..but then obvtown Fonz pointed out that ksun was the better lynch and other people joined so.."

Sorry I would give more reasons but my finger is sprained so i'm only typing with one hand.
Basically, his actions so far this game have been very opportunistic IMO

Don't like this post. I think dahill is twisting what inhim said. Also, I know you have a sprained finger, but can you try to give more reasons dahill? even if it is in multiple posts?

[inHimshallibe]

inhimshallibe -

distracts the town

, puts FoS on obvtown players, doesnt build cases

Quag is obvtown? Is that what you mean?

Cases don't get built on D1.

[mipe]

~What walks all day on its head?~

[/area]

A nail in a horseshoe IIRC. Or was it just a shoe :/