Mini 942: Gonzo Mafia - Game Over!

[Jahudo]

I haven't received much, if any, questions from people on my wagon. So this is just responding to everything.

Here's what Jack has said about kyle and me.

Xreck and Kyle's early posting I'm reading as scumbuddy. Kyle's flinter vote post is scummy,

What is scummy about his flinter vote post? Do you still see the possibility of me and reck being scum together?

Vote:Jahudo

No reasoning followed this vote at the start of day 2. I assumed it was based on his original scumlist, but he hasn't elaborated on why place the vote then since then.

Jahudo seemed scummiest to start and could be my main choice, but hohum turning up with just a vote is annoying.

No reasoning behind this statement.

Jahudo starts today going after ekiM.

*puts locke/Amished at L-1*


Jahudo is likely scum.

It was L-2, so how close were you paying attention? I've already explained why I went over ekiM, and why I didn't see the need to rush out a post on Locke. How is that still scummy, besides the coincidence that Amished gained votes while my focus was elsewhere? It I was trying to wait for the viable lynch, why wouldn't I have stayed home altogether instead of focusing on ekiM, who had no viability at the time?

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Here's what reckoner has said about kyle and me. He still called kyle town after he replaced out, then switched his meta based on nothing. He also switched his opinion on me. First saying I had good play and excellent scumhunting, then saying I didn't do anything to convince him otherwise. His vote post explains nothing. His OMGUS tell is misrepresentation on my vote, because my suspicion is not based on his vote but rather the reasoning behind it. So I would be suspicious of the reasoning no matter who it was placed on.

I don't know that kyle's scum. I don't THINK he is because he's played with his town meta and not his scum meta this game.

I disagree that kyle is scum. I'd prefer to lynch Sotty or maybe hohum today.

Jahudo/kyle99 (kyle99's play was just awful - a series of posts saying "Sorry, I'll catch up" and "I agree with XXX" followed by a vote on whoever XXX's target was. Jahudo has done quite a bit to reconcile that with some good play and excellent scumhunting, though.)

Am I the scum player in this analogy? Who am I attacking?

...Seriously?

Unvote, Vote: Jahudo

Kyle is fail. Regardless of alignment.

kyle's fail meta as town is much much worse than his fail meta as scum. Seriously. He actually plays better (less scummy) as scum. So at first it just seemed like happy go lucky idiotic kyle-town. But his play being as bad as it was at the end, and then replacing out... and you not doing much of anything to convince me otherwise...

Nah, you're scum, regardless of how little I give a flying fuck about this game. But sweet OMGUS vote.

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Here's what DDD has said of kyle and me. The initial kyle suspicions are valid, but I don't see why he thinks ortolan was trying to bus kyle. Its also fine if he thinks I didn't take ownership of the Amished wagon, since I was on it for Locke. But I feel like I did take ownership of the "Locke is scummy" read.

Kyle starts the game pretty squishy. He tosses an RVS vote onto Reck and then next thing unvotes him with a bizarre meta defense for his second post in the game. He doesn’t even follow that up with a vote, just fos’es Zach for nothing major. This initially startled me on my reread that kyle seemed indecisive which to a degree is a town-tell, but I went back and checked Mayor Mafia and he did the same thing in that game as scum which alleviated that concern that I was wrong. He then further goes after another soft target in flinter and is just generally not involved in the game.

These all seem like valid suspicions of kyle.

He then draws a vote from ortolan for kyle’s “tactical replacement” which I saw ortolan butcher to his death in a previous game and basically do the same here. (Incidentally, I don’t ever need to play with that fucking schmuck again). So he knows it’s a reliable tell and I think it’s perfectly reasonable that he was willing to throw a scum partner overboard at that point; it would earn him a fair amount of credibility for calling the scenario like he did and at that point kyle hadn’t been an asset at all and he had no clue if his replacement would be any better.

Ortolan was the first person to post after kyle replaced out, so kyle wasn't under any pressure yet and had a reasonable excuse for leaving because he left in another game. It just looks like ortolan was voting opportunistically because kyle couldn't answer back.

I find it a little curious that day two started up and he immediately started up with analysis on Mike, but then just as quickly flops over to Locke/Amished. Since then I really haven’t seen a push from him for an Amished lynch which could suggest that he really doesn’t want to take ownership of it.

I've already explained why I went after ekiM first, and I don't see how its a valid tell. As for not taking ownership of the Amished wagon, that's a valid point. My reasoning for being on the wagons was Locke's connection to ortolan. The wagon was also based on Locke, since it was at L-3 when Amished replaced in.

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Here's what Amished has said about kyle and me. His kyle read is dependent on Percy being scum. Some of his read on me seems dependent on Percy or Zach being scum. He doesn't explain how I "chainsawed" for Percy, so this looks like complete fabrication.

This is only odd because Percy basically gives kyle a free pass based solely on meta, but doesn't give a shit about the meta of hohum (lazy, overall) and xRx (erratic). Inconsistent stances on players for the same reason = scumz Very Happy Oh, and guess who replaced kyle. Yep, that's right, it's Jahudo who voted for me after calling out Percy Very Happy

This reads like if Percy is scum, then kyle is more likely to be scum. But not the other way around.

I could see a possibility where I'm wrong about one of Percy/Zach and Jahudo is attacking me for pegging a scummate (and I'm more certain about Percy anyways).

This also reads like my alignment hinges on Percy or Zach being scum, not the other way around.

with Jahudo sitting in the "not voting" category to see if there would be more support for any wagon and hop on that.

I almost always make a case before I vote, not the other way around. And I was focused on ekiM, so I don't see how I was sitting back and waiting for a wagon to form.

You had a night to look for connections, or if you were going to do that; you could've made your first post in the day about connections instead of going after ekiM in 552

Amished doesn't take into consideration the circumstances of this game. There was no night.

I thought Percy + Zach replacing in just based on gut for both of them; but due to responses from most of you and Jah's voting of me I switched out Zach for Jah.

This doesn't sound like a genuine read, because you could backtrack and say that other people are forming your read on me.

Jahudo voted for me after I replaced in; and two and a half real-life days after the start of the day.

Once again, there was no night and I explained how I went about re-read the connections to ortolan that occurred at the end of the day.

I feel that he's chainsawing for Percy (possibly trying to play Percy-town as thinking he'll vote for me and put me at L-1 or something, but that's less likely in my eyes).

Where has this happened? I do not remember defending Percy.

His given reasoning is Locke's associative play to Ortolan; but with the 2.5 days that he had before I even replaced in, he could've put up a case against Locke during that time since I believe it's more beneficial to look for scum connections instead of (essentially) picking out somebody and saying "oh, they're town because of this scum!" which doesn't give credit to the scum player either since good scum attack each other anyways (which was the gist of why ekiM was cleared for Jahudo at the start of the day).

This is not what happened. I went into my ekiM questioning thinking I found a connection to ortolan.

[Jahudo]

Mod: Can you delete one of my double-posts?

Sure. I am a card carrying member of the Site Ghosts Reform Party. ~The mod.

I guess Sotty is the tie-breaker, assuming hohum reappears and voting me. Sotty, who do you think is scummier: me or hohum?

-I would rather lynch Jahudo over Percy
-I would be willing to settle for a Hohum lynch seeing as he posted just enough to avoid being replaced.

[xRECKONERx]

I'll hammer hohum if necessary. CLAIM TIME.

[Vi]

@Edgar J. Hudo: Who are your Town reads?

[Jahudo]

My town reads are Jack, Zach, Percy, Vi, DDD, ekiM. If I called any of them suspicious before, I'm pretty sure I already explained how those suspicions went away.

[Jahudo]

My town reads are Jack, Zach, Percy, Vi, DDD, ekiM. If I called any of them suspicious before, I'm pretty sure I already explained how those suspicions went away.

[VP Baltar]

I gave him a quick Pre-Frontal Lift and bounced him off the mirror, then I seized the whiskey bottle from his hand as he slumped to the floor....

"Get a grip on yourself, Andrew,"

I said.

I gave him a rolled-up hundred-dollar bill and watched him snort almost half of our whole stash into his head like a bullet. He choked desperately for a few seconds, then leaped to his feet and fixed me with a wrong and unnatural grin. I could see that he was going sideways.

"You fool,"

I said.

"You took too much."

---

Votecount 2-11

:

hohum ~ L-1 (Vi, ekiM, Percy, Jahudo, Zachrulez)

Jahudo ~ L-2 (Jack, Debonair Danny DiPietro, Amished, xRECKONERx)
Percy ~ L-5 (hohum)
Amished ~ L-5 (Sotty7)

Not Voting:

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to lynch. Deadline is April 17 at roughly 12 p.m. (GMT-4).

[xRECKONERx]

Mod, how about a prod on hohum (last post was Monday)?

Prodding now. ~The mod.

Hohum, when you read this... you're at L-1. Claim (or/and) die.

[Jack]

I would rather lynch Jahudo today, since I'm pretty sure we won't have trouble getting a consensus on hohum tomorrow.

[Vi]

I would rather lynch Jahudo today, since I'm pretty sure we won't have trouble getting a consensus on hohum tomorrow.

Shouldn't that be why we lynch hohum Today?

[xRECKONERx]

^ This.

[Jack]

I can see the town deciding for some reason not to lynch Jahudo tomorrow if he isn't lynched today. But I think hohum is lurking so badly etc that there'll always be some support.

[Vi]

I can see the town deciding for some reason not to lynch Jahudo tomorrow if he isn't lynched today. But I think hohum is lurking so badly etc that there'll always be some support.

Which of them (none, one, the other, or both) is scum?

[Sotty7]

Is the delay scummy? Why?

I stated why I find delays like this scummy. It was like both Kyle and Jahudo were waiting for the town to give them the green light. They didn't throw their vote out until they felt it would be received well.

What is wrong with thinking "X might have a point on Y, but I still suspect X somewhat"?

It coveys to me static reads. If someone you are suspicious of makes a good case on another scummy player wouldn't that effect your read? You could claim bussing of course, but Jahudo said that he didn't think bussing was a probability in with Ort/Vi. Basically it doesn't feel natural for their not to be some change there. He was quick to downgrade Triple D earlier, so I know it's not a play style thing with him

Is any of this scummy?

No.

So this new stuff does wipe away the reasons I found hohum town.

How timely.

Unvote, Vote: Jahudo

I'd settle for a hohum lynch if that was all that was around. I find Jahudo scummier than hohum so that's where my vote is going.

[Jack]

I can see the town deciding for some reason not to lynch Jahudo tomorrow if he isn't lynched today. But I think hohum is lurking so badly etc that there'll always be some support.

Which of them (none, one, the other, or both) is scum?

Vi. I didn't accidentally post my "lynch one townie today and the other tomorrow" plan in the thread.

I think Jahudo is more likely scum than hohum (who is likely scum).

[Vi]

Sotty voting Jahudo essentially hammers him. I would still rather have a hohum lynch tbqh but really we're waiting for someone to flip or hohum to show up.

Hey VP Baltar, I'm bad at telling time. Could you tell us how many hours before deadline?

@Jack: Well okay "none" was probably not a good throw-in.

[VP Baltar]

Pretty sure we're in the same timezone, Vi. Anyhow, you can start your countdown at roughly 37.5 hours...I believe.

[Vi]

Pretty sure we're in the same timezone, Vi. Anyhow, you can start your countdown at roughly 37.5 hours...I believe.

It had more to do with the midnight deadline. I can never keep track of which day it counts as.

Or maybe it's noon, judging from the number of hours left. Whichever.

[ekiM]

Can one of the Jahudo votes unvote so that hohum can't just hammer immediately if he looks at the thread?

[ekiM]

Is the delay scummy? Why?

I stated why I find delays like this scummy. It was like both Kyle and Jahudo were waiting for the town to give them the green light. They didn't throw their vote out until they felt it would be received well.

By 579 there were already three votes on Locke

. I'd asked Jahudo what he thought of Locke's chainsaw. He responded "I'll look at that next". He then voted for Amished nearly a day later.

To me that looks exactly like what he says it is: he hadn't looked at the Locke stuff yet and when he did he agreed it was worth a vote. I don't understand why he would wait a day there if he was "waiting for a green light".

There were already the votes there from me, you, and Zach, at 579. He could easily have voted then. It was clearly already a "green lit" vote to place, if that was what he was looking for. But he didn't.

Why? I think because he actually waited until he'd read the stuff. Nothing made the vote easier a day later. Amished had replaced in, a strong player.

If he was looking for an easy place to vote, why would he vote there after Amished replaced in, but not before when three people had already voted for Locke?

As for kyle, when he posted 121 flinter had 2 votes on her. Why would he feel that his vote wouldn't be received well?

I have a problem with "Oh they delayed their votes because they were afraid they wouldn't be received well". Firstly, there was

already support

in both instances for the wagons they delayed their votes on. Secondly, why would they be afraid at all? Why would they think that casting those votes would be bad for them? OK you could imagine kyle is super-timid... but Jahudo sure isn't. Unless there's some reason to think that either of them is incredibly timid as scum but not as town, this just doesn't hold water.

What is wrong with thinking "X might have a point on Y, but I still suspect X somewhat"?

It coveys to me static reads. If someone you are suspicious of makes a good case on another scummy player wouldn't that effect your read? You could claim bussing of course, but Jahudo said that he didn't think bussing was a probability in with Ort/Vi. Basically it doesn't feel natural for their not to be some change there. He was quick to downgrade Triple D earlier, so I know it's not a play style thing with him

So... what makes you think there was no change? Maybe there was change, but not enough to eliminate Vi as a suspect completely in his mind. This is not strong stuff.

---

What I see in the Jahudo case is that kyle was a weak player, and then some incredibly marginal stuff about Jahudo that I'm unconvinced are even scumtells at all. I have no idea how this can be more worthy of a lynch than hohum.

hohum has been hardcore lurking all day AND intentionally posting the bare minimum to avoid being replaced. Isn't this a massive

red flag

?

Is there any townie motivation at all for doing this?

If we let someone lurk for an ENTIRE DAY while suspicion shifts off of them and onto other players then we're doing something really wrong. hohum should not be allowed to survive today.

[ekiM]

^ This.

Hey Rec, you agree that hohum is the better lynch today so could you please unvote so that he can't hammer Jahudo?

[hohum]

okay

L-1 it seems.

I'm VT.

Also, Flinter said some things yesterday which really cause me to distrust Jack. You should look into lynching him after I'm gone.

Percy is still an excellent lynch candidate.

Third (if there is a third) would be a toss up between Mike and xReck.

So long!

[hohum]

^ This.

Hey Rec, you agree that hohum is the better lynch today so could you please unvote so that he can't hammer Jahudo?

^^ this

Unvote, Vote Jahudo

[hohum]

My town reads are Jack, Zach, Percy, Vi, DDD, ekiM. If I called any of them suspicious before, I'm pretty sure I already explained how those suspicions went away.

and mostly for this post, because there's 3 people on that list that I have scum reads on.

[hohum]

Also, </LURK>