Mini 946 The new Zachtown (Game Over!)

[jasonT1981]

@jason: Your logic is bad, I just do not know if you are scum for it or not.
Opinion on Alex?

I have been accused of that many times bad logic I mean

[Zachrulez]

7th vote count of day 2:

Konowa - 4 (VP Baltar, Lacey, Col.Cathart, Alexithymia)
Jeromus- 1 (DeathRowKitty)
Col.Cathart - 1 (JasonT1981)
Alexithymia - 1 (Konowa)

Not voting (Jeromus, Vi)

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch.

If I made any mistakes, let me know asap.

DL is May 6th at 1pm CST.

[Konowa]

@Lacey: Uh, now your accusations are getting a little thin. How is what I brought up against Alex a "recently suggested theory"? I might be blind and need glasses, but I do not see where anyone else asked for Alex to follow up on his "lulz reactions". I also do not see how my line of questioning for jason is a "recently suggested theory".

@jason: Opinion on Alex?

[Lacey]

@Lacey: Uh, now your accusations are getting a little thin. How is what I brought up against Alex a "recently suggested theory"? I might be blind and need glasses, but I do not see where anyone else asked for Alex to follow up on his "lulz reactions". I also do not see how my line of questioning for jason is a "recently suggested theory".

You got lucky with Alex/Haylen. Your questioning of jason doesn't impress me. Read the game and give some original opinions. Keep in mind the rest of the players aren't going to let you blow off analysis either.

[jasonT1981]

@jason: Opinion on Alex?

I think she may have broken down a bit since you got here to be honest, here. Her listing Sotty in day2 is just bizare, no matter what she says that people are skimming her full post... I just don't see how you can name someone as scum or a potential scum candidate that is dead and flipped town..

She mentions about not wanting to answer big questions right now, fair enough... but I can see that as stalling... her failure to answer your question and go on a rant was bizare.

I am going to do an Iso on her tomorrow when I get the chance. I am logging of here for the evening to watch the game and have a few drinks (trust me... you dont want me posting drunk despite what my Sig says lol)

[DeathRowKitty]

@Jason
I personally think the response to this post is obvious, but I'll respond if you disagree.

I'm not sure if I should be bothered by Konowa coming in and having very similar suspicions to me (his first, second, and fourth picks are the same people with the same major reasons; my third pick was him) or if I should be feeling good about myself now. It does bother me that, of the 8 other players left, he expresses suspicion of 6 of them in his first post (he doesn't express suspicion of me or CC (possible buddying to me?)). Also, I don't like how loud his first post with content is, for lack of a better word. It's worded in a way you would expect a post to be worded from someone more or less leading the town...except he's at L-1 and he's flailing at everyone. Basically, it looks like an attempt to come out strong and lead us on an assault against pretty much anyone but himself.

Lol @ Alex finding Sotty scummy.

@Alex
Was there anything you had in mind besides Sotty's reaction to your RVS behavior that you thought made her scummy? If you had to pick someone else who attacked you as scum, who would you pick?

@Konowa
What makes not knowing who died scummy?

@jason: Your logic is bad, I just do not know if you are scum for it or not.
Opinion on Alex?

I have been accused of that many times bad logic I mean

Why did you just give in when Konowa accused you of bad logic? Do you agree that your logic was bad?

[jasonT1981]

No,I was not giving in... just simply stating it was not the first time I have been accused of bad logic when making a case against someone.

[DeathRowKitty]

Do you still believe your logic to be correct?

[Lacey]

I'm not sure if I should be bothered by Konowa coming in and having very similar suspicions to me (his first, second, and fourth picks are the same people with the same major reasons; my third pick was him) or if I should be feeling good about myself now. It does bother me that, of the 8 other players left, he expresses suspicion of 6 of them in his first post (he doesn't express suspicion of me or CC (possible buddying to me?)). Also, I don't like how loud his first post with content is, for lack of a better word. It's worded in a way you would expect a post to be worded from someone more or less leading the town...except he's at L-1 and he's flailing at everyone. Basically, it looks like an attempt to come out strong and lead us on an assault against pretty much anyone but himself.

This was my point where I asked Konowa to give us some real scum hunting and take some positions for novel reasons. As you note, and I pointed out, all of Konowa's points so far are just parroting. I agree his aggressive behavior seems scummy too. He doesn't like where town is going right now and is trying to control the discussion while barely addressing the fact that he is at L-1.

And I still don't like the points he tried to make by fiat on Jason. He simply called them illogical without addressing why. IMO he is trying to build an air of authority and use it as a defense of sorts.

While I would disagree with Jason in general (mafia DO hammer, putting someone at L-1 isn't necessarily scummy, and can be a great way to get information, and bait scum), I don't find Jason's logic scummy, nor do I find it bad when applied to Col.Cathart in particular. Cathart is a shrewd player with a good grasp of strategy, and I think Jason's points warrant a deeper look.

Col.Cathart is still low on my scum list however, and I think his partner Jasper/Maemuki/Konowa should go first, followed by Alex/Haylen or Jeromus.

[DeathRowKitty]

Konowa, claim.

[jasonT1981]

Do you still believe your logic to be correct?

I do still stand by what I said yes, It does seem a bit funny that he has now done it twice...

the fact that he then also brought up that he was doing it for a second time seems to draw more suspicion on him in my book.

Kinda like a guilty concious in him wanting to say it first before anyone called him out on it... this way he could say, well I already acknowledged I did (kinda like a justification to the action)... like he did when I called him on it.

[Lacey]

Looking over vote counts VP and DRK both being on all three of the large D1 wagons is making me think. Votecounts 1, 2, and final for reference.

What does it make you think? Do you find those wagons scummy? Why or why not?

[VP Baltar]

Glad to see the activity burst...too bad it came at a horrible time for me this week at work!

Catching up.

Why are you asking me this question?

I know we're contractually obliged to turn on each other eventually but still.

Consistency of thought testing and culpability later mostly. Plus, there hasn't really been any skepticism between us yet...which makes me skeptical.

Something tells me I don't have all four of those right though. It's a best guess based on what we have. I think after another Night things will become more clear.

I think DRK is much more likely than jeromus, but *shrug*. It's a little hard to swallow that all of our scum are all of our lurkers, but I guess it's not impossible. Jason does point out a pretty sweet contradiction from DRK in his 414

Konowa's first content post basically confirms my suspicion that Mae and Jason are scum buddies. So sorry you replaced into that slot.

So basically my scum list so far is Maemuki, Jason and Sotty.

lol, wow.

Even though this is astoundingly bad, I'm not sure if I entirely take it as scummy. Konowa is still a much better choice.

[DeathRowKitty]

VP, there's no contradiction there.

[VP Baltar]

VP, there's no contradiction there.

Disagree. I think you made a town read with a qualifer and quickly took advantage of it...which sort of points out how you were faking your town read in the first place just because you thought it'd be easy to stay off the wagon.

[DeathRowKitty]

Not seeing how someone is obvscum =/= not finding someone scummy.

[VP Baltar]

Not seeing how someone is obvscum =/= not finding someone scummy.

You said you had pretty much no problem with most of what he had said in the game except one point. Kind of hard for me to interpret that as anything but you NOT seeing him as scum. Feel free to argue semantics about it though.

[DeathRowKitty]

You're the one arguing semantics here. I find it hard to believe you don't understand what I said.

You should also remember that my saying I think he's scum only puts him in the top half of my suspicions, which shouldn't be particularly shocking.

[Vi]

I can't fault Konowa for outing Alex-scum, at least.~
Alex's posts are so bad they've transcended badness and become kind of funny.

I'm disappointed, Veep Bee. It feels on my end like you're manufacturing reasons to suspect me, and I really don't want to deal with the implications of that. (unless you actually ARE scum)
But fine, we can play that game. Why do you think Alex is NOT scum based on not paying attention to something that anyone who has been reading the game and/or interested in finding scum would have been keeping a close eye on? Or her utter inability to play anything but defensively now that she's outside her comfort zone (to contrast when she was dealing with the self-vote mess)?

Before making a judgment on DRK, I'd like to know why he finds jason scummy.

The utter lack of jeromus in this topic is borderline scary. Yes, he was onsite yesterday.

Basically Konowa has managed to accuse everyone except Col.Cat of being possible scum, which at this stage is unhelpful and legitimately scummy (when in trouble, sow mass confusion!).
I agree with Lacey 449 and I'm definitely seconding the request for a claim, because at this point I think we've finally gotten everything we wanted out of this Day.

[VP Baltar]

I'm disappointed, Veep Bee. It feels on my end like you're manufacturing reasons to suspect me, and I really don't want to deal with the implications of that.

What are these implications you speak of? I mean, don't get me wrong, you're probably my strongest town read...but I also thought you were town for 95% of F&E. With this many lurkers/reactionary posters it can't be all that surprising if I poke you occasionally to see if anything happens. I don't want to lose based on my own complacency.

Why do you think Alex is NOT scum based on not paying attention to something that anyone who has been reading the game and/or interested in finding scum would have been keeping a close eye on?

While Alex is far from making her way onto my town list, I think the specific point about reading is bunk. Yes, town SHOULD be paying attention, but I feel like opposing scum would almost certainly be paying attention to NKs. I know when I'm scum I don't tend to forget NKs, particularly when there is an opposing scum out there.

Or her utter inability to play anything but defensively now that she's outside her comfort zone (to contrast when she was dealing with the self-vote mess)?

I gave her town points for this? You'd have to quote that for my memory.

Third request for Konowa claim.

[Vi]

I'm disappointed, Veep Bee. It feels on my end like you're manufacturing reasons to suspect me, and I really don't want to deal with the implications of that.

What are these implications you speak of? I mean, don't get me wrong, you're probably my strongest town read...but I also thought you were town for 95% of F&E. With this many lurkers/reactionary posters it can't be all that surprising if I poke you occasionally to see if anything happens. I don't want to lose based on my own complacency.

I can understand the feeling; at the same time, I kinda like/d being able to openly work together with you.
It's like being Neighbors without the QuickTopic, and if we go the same ways I think we would be more effective together.
Of course, this is contingent on getting accurate reads on each other first, or at least agreeing with each other while we sort that out.

That's my POV anyway.

Why do you think Alex is NOT scum based on not paying attention to something that anyone who has been reading the game and/or interested in finding scum would have been keeping a close eye on?

While Alex is far from making her way onto my town list, I think the specific point about reading is bunk. Yes, town SHOULD be paying attention, but I feel like opposing scum would almost certainly be paying attention to NKs. I know when I'm scum I don't tend to forget NKs, particularly when there is an opposing scum out there.

I agree that she would have paid attention to her OWN kill...

Or her utter inability to play anything but defensively now that she's outside her comfort zone (to contrast when she was dealing with the self-vote mess)?

I gave her town points for this? You'd have to quote that for my memory.

'Never said that.
Ftr, could you clarify your read on Alexithaylen?

[VP Baltar]

I can understand the feeling; at the same time, I kinda like/d being able to openly work together with you.
It's like being Neighbors without the QuickTopic, and if we go the same ways I think we would be more effective together.
Of course, this is contingent on getting accurate reads on each other first, or at least agreeing with each other while we sort that out.

I understand. Don't take it as me really doubting you so much as checking myself. We can still beat up on fools. Basically in F&E I adopted the philosophy that you're my ally until I absolutely need to reconsider. Even though it didn't work out for me that game, I think it's still a semi-useful stance for me to take with you given your playstyle regardless of alignment.

I agree that she would have paid attention to her OWN kill...

Perhaps, but I still think NKs are important to scums, regardless of if they made them or not.

Ftr, could you clarify your read on Alexithaylen?

She's still scummy to me, but probably lower on my To Lynch list. I'm like 90% certain Konowa/Jason are a scum pair and I'd like to wipe them out first before moving on to the others. However, if I was scum looking to eliminate the opposition, Alex certainly would be high on my list of NKs tonight.

[Vi]

Ftr, could you clarify your read on Alexithaylen?

She's still scummy to me, but probably lower on my To Lynch list. I'm like 90% certain Konowa/Jason are a scum pair and I'd like to wipe them out first before moving on to the others. However, if I was scum looking to eliminate the opposition, Alex certainly would be high on my list of NKs tonight.

Which brings me what I meant when I said we have seen enough for Today. I'm more than confident that we've outed one member of each scumteam, and quite possibly two on one. That's all we need, because the scum definitely need to take care of each other as well as they can while they can.

Maemukonowasper
jason
+
Alexithaylen
jeromus

^^work for you?

Incidentally, why is an Alex lynch not preferable to a Konowa lynch? Is it the pairing potential?

[VP Baltar]

^^work for you?

Incidentally, why is an Alex lynch not preferable to a Konowa lynch? Is it the pairing potential?

Works well enough for now. There's got to be on VI on that list, but its inconsequential today.

Pairing potential and the fact that Konowa's slot has been scummy across three different players. If that's not absolute confirmation, I don't know what is. As I said, I really want to be right today and Konowa is that lynch imo.

[Lacey]

Maemukonowasper
jason
+
Alexithaylen
jeromus

Can you explain why jason makes your list with Konowa over Col.Cathart? I've not been getting a particularly town read from either Col or Jason, but Konowa's "suspect everyone but Col" has tipped me more in Col's favor for that scum slot, and he was already my prime suspect between jason and col.

Agree completely on Alex/Haylen and Jeromus pairing, as I have since beginning of day 1.