Mini 947 - Halo Mafia OVER

[llamaeatataco]

I'm an idiot and I missed xvart's post. Sorry:

Reck - what's changed between these two posts? Do you think that Master Chief would be a fake claim provided by the mod? Or would scum really have the balls to claim Master Chief, the most notorious and well known Halo Hero in the Halo universe?

You stole my thunder!!! I want to have an idea first! D:< [/rage]

[xRECKONERx]

Nothing changed - I still think Master Chief is a town role based on flavor alone... but then again, it's "outguessing the mod" like that that can lead to townfails.

I think scum got fakeclaims... it's standard procedure in flavor-defined faction games like this to provide standard safeclaims for the scum.

[xRECKONERx]

I didn't do a 180... I still believe the claim, and I think DoS

has

to be the last scum based on process of elimination:

1) I know I'm town.

2) xvart has been confirmed by llama (unless they're both scum, which I doubt).

3) I'm agreeing with cruelty's posts for the most part, which makes me see him in a townie light.

4) This leaves DoS and llama. DoS is like 98% my choice for the day, and I'm 2% on llama. The Master Chief claim gives him a lot of weight, though... but once again, I'm wary of trusting people based solely off of claims, because I know as a theme mod myself, that's

exactly

something I'd do to punish the town for believing claims at face value.

Anyway, no point waiting anymore.

Vote: DoS

.

[llamaeatataco]

This leaves DoS and llama. DoS is like 98% my choice for the day, and I'm 2% on llama. The Master Chief claim gives him a lot of weight, though... but once again, I'm wary of trusting people based solely off of claims, because I know as a theme mod myself, that's exactly something I'd do to punish the town for believing claims at face value.

back peddle moar.

I understand what you're saying about sneaky mods and their flavor though. The thing is, it seems to me like you're just being too wishy-washy. You don't want to say outright that my claim is 100% legit, but you want to use it to, by process of elimination, lynch DoS. With no other reasons given. My vote stays for now.

[xvart]

Reckoner - you seem to be eager to help with all your town list posts and analyzing role distribution, but it is riddled with misinformation. First

xvart - gunsmith

I'm not even close to a gunsmith. I'm not an investigative role at all.

Furthermore, gunsmith or whatever can't hurt town.

I can easily hurt the town by giving them two night kills instead of just one.

I have a hard time seeing PRs outnumber VTs in a mini.

I can easily see the distribution being the way it is because all the power roles are handicapped one way or another:

1. I have be extra careful to give my gun to someone who is town AND will make a smart decision and not kill town;
   
2. llama can only shoot every other day;
   
3. I don't know what the motivator did exactly, but aren't there similar roles (engineer maybe) that gives items but sometimes the items do not have the desired effect (pure speculation); and,
   
4. PGO - with a lot of town targeting this is a huge liability for the town.

The town is not over powered; we just got lucky with scum targeting the PGO in addition to a townperson since unless scum have a roleblocker they only have one chance to target the PGO each n ight whereas it appears on any given night the town could have had four people targeting for whatever reason. So despite your best efforts to make PGO sound power neutral by calling it null, it is a huge disadvantage in this particular game.

Why don't you think that scum would just claim vanilla townie? In fact, I'm positive that is what happened. I think you tried to topple your deck of cards constructed theorycrafting balancing act by exposing me as the least likely to be a real role. Then, when I confirmed myself, you went after two other people, one of which you said the following comments about:

1. I don't think Master Chief would be a scum PR in a Halo flavored game.
   
2. I'm tending to agree with cruelty. So I will end up lynching DoS or llama today.

So you are saying there is a strong chance that you might lynch llama, the person you don't think would be a scum PR, today?

preview edit:

Nothing changed - I still think Master Chief is a town role based on flavor alone... but then again, it's "outguessing the mod" like that that can lead to townfails.

I'm willing to believe that the most epic hero and the person responsible for saving humanity is not scum.

I think scum got fakeclaims... it's standard procedure in flavor-defined faction games like this to provide standard safeclaims for the scum.

I totally believe that scum got fake claims. I find it hard to believe that the remaining scum would get the fake claim Master Chief. I think scum would be more likely to get something like, I don't know, "Sgt. Avery Johnson."

I still want answers to my questions from DoS, but for now I'm going to

FoS: xRECKONERx

If it was an even night this would be over because llama could shoot two people tonight, scum would kill either llama or me, and the last man standing would make for a town win.

xvart.

[cruelty]

Cruelty is just doing what he normally does (illogical attacks).

i've never played with you before so i'm not sure how you know that i usually make illogical attacks. the only serious suspect i've had in this game was agm and look how that turned out.

Imo, xvart is clear. Being able to give a gun to someone is NOT helpful at all to the mafia, and he definitely gave the gun to me. Either we are mafia together or he is clear. He could have given the gun to mafia, but as I said, I was speaking from my point of view. Unwise to speculate on the final scum role? How do you figure that? In my opinion, this discussion could be very helpful for producing slips like this one. Discussion = good. Tell me, in what possible way could it be unwise to have this discussion?

it doesn't clear

you

AT ALL. and it doesn't 100% clear xvart (but atm he's the last person i'd vote for).

discussion about the final scum role isn't a problem in and of itself, but it's pretty irrelevant when we're looking for a lynch.

Only one more lynch? As far as I know, we have a mislynch. I'm going to assume we get this one wrong, because if we get it right it won't matter.

there's 99% only 1 scum left. not one lynch left.

[xRECKONERx]

@llama: Do you not agree DoS has been hiding in the shadows for most of the game?

@xvart: MISREP GOGOGO

- xvart claimed a PR (gunsmith?)

I wasn't sure what to call the role, as I've never really seen a gunsmith in action and assumed it was just someone who can make guns and give them to people. That DOES fit with the rolename... how is gunsmith an investigative role?

I can easily hurt the town by giving them two night kills instead of just one.

I was not aware the kills would stack like that. Also notice I said "gunsmith or

whatever

" in that very post you quoted.

1. I have be extra careful to give my gun to someone who is town AND will make a smart decision and not kill town;
1. llama can only shoot every other day;
2. I don't know what the motivator did exactly, but aren't there similar roles (engineer maybe) that gives items but sometimes the items do not have the desired effect (pure speculation); and,
3. PGO - with a lot of town targeting this is a huge liability for the town.

1. While this is true... the same thing pretty much goes for a vig, and that's obviously a pro-town role.
2. As I stated, I'm not sure what the motivator does exactly, but since he claims he targeted me and it did nothing, I can only assume it enhances power roles (given the word MOTIVATOR) and isn't an anti-town role.
3. It's also a huge liability for scum, as was proven. Yeah, we ended up with a dead JOAT, but we also ended up with a dead scum, which I would say is a pretty good deal.

So you are saying there is a strong chance that you might lynch llama, the person you don't think would be a scum PR, today?

NO. As I JUST FUCKING STATED, I want to lynch DoS. He's been lurky the whole game, hiding in the shadows and flying under the radar. Wagon positioning on pman would suggest he's town, but we've already shown that the last scum HAD to have been on pman's wagon, so that's no longer townie-points IMO.

I'm willing to believe that the most epic hero and the person responsible for saving humanity is not scum.

So am I, but like I said, we've got to be CAREFUL doing that. I would cite an example where the protagonist wound up being a scum claim, but it's an ongoing game.

I totally believe that scum got fake claims. I find it hard to believe that the remaining scum would get the fake claim Master Chief. I think scum would be more likely to get something like, I don't know, "Sgt. Avery Johnson."

You have no basis for that, and I can just as easily say that Captain Keyes or Dass (who the fuck?) or Sir Terrance Hood are fakeclaims. You can't just make arbitrary statements like that.

I'm also going to go on record (and I know bussing is a viable strategy, but...) and say that I was one of the MAIN forces behind the pman wagon, AND I was calling bv310 out on his scummy post at the end of D1. He was to be the person I opened up attacking on D2, but we got a freebie like that. Sure, call it bussing, call it WIFOM, but look at the

facts

of the matter and tell me that DoS and cruelty are more townie than I am.

/defense



@llama: do you plan on using xvart's gun to kill tonight?

@cruelty: who do you want to lynch today?

[llamaeatataco]

i've never played with you before so i'm not sure how you know that i usually make illogical attacks. the only serious suspect i've had in this game was agm and look how that turned out.

Props on that btw, I didn't even notice him until d2. I never said it cleared me, just that it cleared him. I didn't need to play with you before. I have seen how you behaved in this game: Your attack on my was full of OMGUS and fail. Your behavior now is the same. Either I need to learn to speak or you need to learn to read.

@llama: do you plan on using xvart's gun to kill tonight?

I hail from EM, where we rely on math and crap to be a safety net for lack of scumhunting:

4 people going into the night. If I shoot tonight, it has to be correct or we lose. I was planning on just letting us do this in lylo, depending on who we lynch.

So, is the extra discussion of another day worth giving up my total control of who dies? I think so, because I trust xvart.

Or I'm going to die. Do I trust you fools in lylo? I think I can. Xvart will be the deciding vote, which is fine by me. However, if I live, I'd suggest we nl so I can double blast the scum.


I'm too lazy to quote, but reck got a little defensive in that last post, don't you think? Chainsaw defence ftl.



tl;dr: I'm not buying what reck is selling and I'm not shooting tonight unless I get a compelling reason to.

[xRECKONERx]

No, I don't WANT you to shoot. I was just checking. If you shoot the wrong person tonight, it's auto-loss for town tomorrow unless scum HAPPENS to crosskill.

I also think you need to learn what chainsaw defense is. This attack on me is bullshit.

[cruelty]

Props on that btw, I didn't even notice him until d2.

I never said it cleared me, just that it cleared him.

you what now?? let's quickly recap.

I got the gun. So, unless we have 2 scum,

that clears xvart and myself.

are you serious?

should i vote you now or do you think you can make the hole you're digging a little bigger??

I didn't need to play with you before. I have seen how you behaved in this game: Your attack on my was full of OMGUS and fail.

what attack on you?

ok, so we can conclude that you know nothing about me.

early scumreads, llama, agm.

both these quotes are from the same post (my iso 5) and constitute the entirety of my 'attack' on you.



so what to conclude from llama's latest gem of a post??

1: he's a liar - he quite clearly

did

say that xvart giving him the gun cleared him.
2: he's misrepresentative - describing the above quotes as an attack is stretching, calling it omgus and full of fail is pushing the lines of credibility.

Your behavior now is the same. Either I need to learn to speak or you need to learn to read.

lol.

So, is the extra discussion of another day worth giving up my total control of who dies? I think so, because I trust xvart.

yes, because you're quite clearly either insane or scum.

also you have no choice BUT to trust xvart. in fact xvart becomes irrelevant because he must die tonight, scum can't have 95% confirmed town alive in lylo.

I'm too lazy to quote, but reck got a little defensive in that last post, don't you think? Chainsaw defence ftl.

you were too lazy to check my meta when AGM started bringing it up. this is the business end of the game son, i don't want no layabouts round here.


at this point i'm in danger of getting tunneled. i'd love to hear some more from DoS. i am prepared to lynch him today, i don't want a lurker anywhere near lylo.


reckoner you asked me who i want to lynch and based on text alone it's llama by a mile. i'm not happy with DoS lurking though, so i'm willing to take that route too. i'm not going to vote just yet because i think it's premature (there's good discussion right now and i want to prolong it for a bit, see if we can win this shit today).

[xRECKONERx]

What about llama's MC claim?

[cruelty]

llama's behaviour > llama's mc claim imo

[llamaeatataco]

Cruelty, don't be lazy and GO READ THE THREAD. Srsly.

I was speaking fmpov, stating the obvious... I think. I don't quite remember what I was thinking to be honest. In my mind, I now know that xvart is clear in addition to myself. [/q]

My last post on page 8.

are you serious?

should i vote you now or do you think you can make the hole you're digging a little bigger??

You're stretching too hard. Do you just think you can pull a fast one and

ignore my previous posts

and then call ME the lazy one? Nope.

Your 'attack' was basically you calling me scum for thinking you were scummy for being a total tool at the beginning. Just in case you can't remember aaaallll the way back on the first few pages.

both these quotes are from the same post (my iso 5) and constitute the entirety of my 'attack' on you.



so what to conclude from llama's latest gem of a post??

1: he's a liar - he quite clearly did say that xvart giving him the gun cleared him.
2: he's misrepresentative - describing the above quotes as an attack is stretching, calling it omgus and full of fail is pushing the lines of credibility.

1: You didn't read the thread. I was saying, from my point of view the events of the game have cleared xvart and myself. Not specifically the giving of the gun. I already explained this, and you trying to brush past it makes me even more wary of you.

2: O rly? In my eyes, when you call someone scum it's an attack. Just because you were being unhelpful and not putting anything behind it doesn't mean it isn't an attack. It was also completely illogical, as I have said before.




So, what can we conclude from Cruelty's gem of a post?

1: He is ignoring my previous posts, most likely hoping nobody else will notice them.
2: He tries to get people to ignore his previous behavior in the game because 'we haven't played with him before.' Prior experience is not necessary to know that you were being a tool in the first 5 pages.

yes, because you're quite clearly either insane or scum.

also you have no choice BUT to trust xvart. in fact xvart becomes irrelevant because he must die tonight, scum can't have 95% confirmed town alive in lylo.

So scum is going to leave a vig with the ability to doubleshoot alive in favor of killing someone who has no power at all?

you were too lazy to check my meta when AGM started bringing it up. this is the business end of the game son, i don't want no layabouts round here.


at this point i'm in danger of getting tunneled. i'd love to hear some more from DoS. i am prepared to lynch him today, i don't want a lurker anywhere near lylo.


reckoner you asked me who i want to lynch and based on text alone it's llama by a mile. i'm not happy with DoS lurking though, so i'm willing to take that route too. i'm not going to vote just yet because i think it's premature (there's good discussion right now and i want to prolong it for a bit, see if we can win this shit today).

There's a difference between being too lazy to go get another game and simply not making the effort to quote a post

in the same game right above mine

. Can you misrepresent me any more? Also, you seem to have been too lazy to go and read my previous posts, so I don't think you have a leg to stand on in that area.



Winning this today, in my opinion would be rather difficult. DoS needs to get himself in here and post.

Mod, can we prod DoS yet?

Reckoner was my initial suspect, but now that cruelty has been actively misrepresenting the truth and ignoring evidence and such,

unvote, vote: Cruelty

Oh yeah, and about the chainsaw defense: I thought that was when you just attacked your attacker instead of defending yourself. I could be wrong about that though. What I meant was that you attacked instead of explaining, trying to shift the focus. Fo srs.

[ReaperCharlie]

OoT post: I definitely want to play the next Halo Mafia if there is one. >:D

[xRECKONERx]

Uhhh, dude... you can't post in ongoing games like that.

Back on topic - DoS still hasn't shown up, and I think we need to lynch him immediately. Lurkerscum is lurky.

[cruelty]

facepalm

i'll deal with you after work

[xvart]

I was trying to get a response out before I left for Dallas, but didn't have time. I will try and post tonight when I arrive.

Mod: I will have Limited Access until Sunday.

xvart..

[DragonsofSummer]

Alright, Sorry I had work the last 3 days and didn't have a chance to post.

@xvart: I have no power on the ring because my ships are useless on the ground.

Alright on to reck freaking out.

First I was gone for 3 days since my last post. We aren't even in lylo so your calling for my immediate lynch about once a post is not only extremely ridiculous, but also scummy. You are trying to end the day before people have a chance to gain any sort of information.

Second, his whole "I pushed the pman wagon!" argument. I would like to remind everyone that

I started the Pman wagon

. I was the very first vote, and when reck bitched at me for the way I voted, I defended said vote. To call my vote bussing goes from just being ridiculous to forcing information that doesn't fit a scenario at all into the scenario. And it still looks bad if investigated.

I've had a town read on reck most of the game, but at this point he looks like scum who tried to push a wagon on xvart because it seemed easy but then when xvart proved his role he freaked out and started shouting about how I have not been around at all this game. When I can point out very clearly how I was involved in each day if anyone else wants me too.

Mostly I see no reason to defend myself further from his weak attacks, and will just

vote xRECKONERx

.

[xRECKONERx]

Aaaaand DoS misreps me hardcore. Go figure.

You are trying to end the day before people have a chance to gain any sort of information.

Nope. You're just scum.

his whole "I pushed the pman wagon!" argument

I believe I said I was "one of" the main forces behind the pman wagon. And why are you so set on denying the possibility that there's NOOO WAYYYY you would've bussed your partner on D1, and then been like "oh shit" and couldn't get off the wagon in time? That's completely plausible and yet you completely disregard it.

he freaked out

I'm sorry, what? I don't recall me "FREAKING OUT" at all. I'm not going to call this an appeal to emotion, but come the fuck on, that's ridiculous.

Mostly I see no reason to defend myself further from his weak attacks, and will just vote xRECKONERx.

OMGUS!

Seriously, this is just awful. He misreps me, says I'm just "freaking out", conveniently tosses out plausible scenarios where he's scum, and lurks his way through this whole day until there's already fingers being pointed at one another, then chimes in on the most viable target who has had the most suspicion thrown his way (me).

[llamaeatataco]

And somehow, in this exchange I want to lynch both reck and DoS more. Seriously.

@reck: Being 'one of the main forces' is the same as pushing the wagon as far as I know. I'd say DoS was the first to vote, but you were hounding him from the beginning in a way that there was no doubting what you wanted. However, I am a firm believer in using all of our time. We most definitely have the win in our laps, gift wrapped for us. Pushing a lynch based on lurking alone is kind of silly in this situation. If DoS does continue to lurk, I'll happily vote him, but I understand not having time to post for a few days.

And why are you so set on denying the possibility that there's NOOO WAYYYY you would've bussed your partner on D1, and then been like "oh shit" and couldn't get off the wagon in time? That's completely plausible and yet you completely disregard it.

..And why are you completely ignoring the possibility that he could just have had lots of work to do? You're both coming off pretty bad in my eyes. Reck is reading Waaaay too far into it, then being hypocritical. DoS is kind of muddling the truth, but not more than I'd expect from a normal person wanting to not look like a fool.


Actually, I take that back. Reck is coming out worse than DoS. kk.

also,

Aaaaand DoS misreps me hardcore. Go figure.

Quote:

You are trying to end the day before people have a chance to gain any sort of information.

Nope. You're just scum.

I don't like this

at all

. My gut tells me this is bad. I don't know quite yet how to express it in words, but I'll think about it and tell you in the morning.



summary: Reck overreacts to being accused of freaking out, Is hypocritical and DoS muddles things a little.



Now, For Cruelty:

What do you have against me so far? Off the top of my head, here is all I can remember you putting together on me:

1. I supposedly said that xvart giving me his gun cleared me.

I already explained this, and I quoted that explanation and told you. Not doing this crap again unless you bring up something that warrants further explaining.


I can't remember anything else, now I'm re-reading.
2. I said the infection forms were yaks

This in and of itself is a stupid reason to suspect someone. Reck has his own theory and I have mine. My play is not effected in any way at all by what the previous scum roles were, and Reck has no reason to think they were goons. If you think this is a reason to believe someone is mafia, then I'm going to call you a moron and move on.


3. I apparently lied.
I addressed this already. It goes back to the whole xvart giving me a gun thing. Cruelty is obviously stretching at this point, seeing as he's

restating arguments that have already been refuted

. Srsly.

4. I misrepresented his attack on me from page 2 or 3.

It WAS an OMGUS attack. You basically called me mafia for accusing you. Go re-read it. I said you were being a tool and you said I was your early scumread directly afterward. You WERE being a tool. I think everyone still alive would agree with that, excluding you. So, your attack WAS an attack (albeit a weak, unsupported one) and it WAS OMGUS and it WAS full of fail. Not stretching credibility at all at this point.

5. I'm too lazy
I said I didn't want to quote the message directly above mine. What's wrong with that? You could just, you know, scroll up a bit and read it for yourself.


------------------------

That's all he's got. Those 5 things, unless I missed something. If I did, I hope he DOES post before I get back so I can see what it was. I'm going to assume I didn't miss anything for now though.

Is that basis for a lynch? Hell no! MAYBE the first third and fourth, if they were true. Thing is, I already showed why they AREN'T true. So, cruelty has some explaining to do. Now that you can see exactly what his arguments are, in their entirety, I think it would be obvious to anyone that he's pushing the leakiest case ever.


At this point, I'd lynch Reckoner today and Cruelty tomorrow. Why? Because while Cruelty is pushing an idiotic case, I'd expect that from him given his previous play. Reckoner on the other hand...


So, I think I'm already voting him, but just in case

unvote, vote:Reckoner

Why? Because Cruelty's behavior is anti town, but Reck's is more mafia flavored anti town instead of just plain old idjit anti town.

[cruelty]

no need to get personal mate. it's just a game. but since ya did..


1: your explanation was beyond pathetic. "i meant it from my pov!". i didn't address it because it was so fucking weak that i dismissed it as the ravings of a delusional dumbass.

2: i'm not suspicious of you for that, i asked you to explain and since you did, i haven't brought it up again.

3: given my stance on (1) is that your answer was a fucking joke and given the fact that you DID say you were cleared (regardless of your later, ludicrous rationale) you did in fact lie.

4: it wasn't an attack at all, rofl. you did in fact know nothing about me (other than what AGM (

scum

) said), and my early scumread was less of a genuine read and more of a bait. didn't really work so i moved swiftly onwards. you're

completely

misrepping me - the impression you seem to be striving for is one of a drooling, raving cruelty hurling obscenities and weak cases at you in the early game. this didn't happen.

5: this wasn't an attack lol. you say you're lazy, i say this isn't the time to be lazy. you're not scum because of

that

, you're just an apathetic gimp.



you're trying to paint me as an idiot, which i guess is fine. maybe i'm wrong (shit, i've been wrong before), but i'm pretty sure there's a solid case to be made against you, your contradictions and your misrepresentations.



although, explain to me how scumhunting (even if it is misguided) is anti-town?


@the rest of you, i'll be looking at you all over the weekend now that i (hopefully) will have a bit more time.

[llamaeatataco]

Cruelty, you can say it's beyond pathetic, but the truth is, I talk to myself sometimes. Deal with it.

Oh, so now you're passing your omgus off as 'bait'? w/e.

Oh, and less Ad Homs please. They make you look like scum even more. Your post would be about half as long without them.

I'm not trying to paint you as a drooling idiot, obviously you can type, but what I AM saying is that your playstyle at the beginning of the game was anti-town. Are you going to say now that that was a gambit as well?

Your entire post was just a bunch of personal attacks, swearing and saying 'I don't believe you.'


---------

Now, about Reck's post from yesterday...

I figured out why I don't like it. Reck's entire basis for lynching DoS has been that he didn't post enough (lurking). Now that DoS is back, Reck, instead of waiting to hear what he has to say wants us to lynch.


DoS: You want to lynch before we gain useful information.

Reck: No, I just want to lynch right now, (presumably before we gain useful information).

That's the way I read that exchange. Now, I'd like DoS to post some more, but at this point I'd say we just lynch Reck immediately.

[xRECKONERx]

No, llama, that's not what I meant. I just meant he thinks I'm hurrying a lynch along, but I'm just convinced he's scum. We can gain useful information... but from my position, it won't really matter, because once we lynch DoS he'll flip scum.

PS, for those of you saying I'm overreacting... you should probably meta me. This is

tame

compared to standard Reck-playstyle.

[llamaeatataco]

Holy shit. I went and skimmed a couple of games with you in them, and you do get a little excited. At least it makes playing with you fun, amirite?

I could even believe what you're saying, seeing as it fits your wording (no you're just scum could be meaning "no, I don't want to rush the lynch, I just am convinced you are scum" in addition to "stfu, you're scum and we should lynch now") but after skimming your other games, I'd say the second makes more sense. Now, if you are normally really animated, that's fine, but that's not what we're talking about here. I'm saying you're overreacting not in the sense that you are 'shouting' but in that you are making mountains out of mole hills.

And aren't you hurrying this lynch along? You keep telling us to lynch his lurker ass, and now you don't want to lynch now?

[xRECKONERx]

No, I want to Lynch DoS. End statement. I'm in Vegas. Don't expect anymore updates soon.