mini 943- Greek Mythology! (And the winner is... ?)

[LordChronos]

@ooba

Jack does have a point about VV choosing to say that the flavor in the super power part of his claim was not there, but the flavor in the power part was makes seem less likely he is scum. Given that you were attacking him for that, why would scum-VV admit that the seduce thing was there?

@Snow

Would you still label ooba townie if VV is in fact town? Can you confirm that your Power: section does not contain flavor?

@Jack

Actually, the first assumption you list is not "required". It is possible though that scum-VV simply made up the flavor regardless of whether his pm has flavor. The strongest point you have made is about his denying the flavor in his superpower but admitting it in his power. Still, if everyone else confirms they have to flavor in their power section, I think it seems likely this is a fakeclaim.

Small problem with your argument that Almaster is scum. You say scum with a Vig power would be stupidly overpowered and would break the game, yet you think he is scum? Are you saying that he is fakeclaiming?

[Jack]

@Jack

Actually, the first assumption you list is not "required". It is possible though that scum-VV simply made up the flavor regardless of whether his pm has flavor.

That would be a huge stretch though...his power has no flavor, Almaster's claimed power has no flavor, and he claims flavor?

The strongest point you have made is about his denying the flavor in his superpower but admitting it in his power. Still, if everyone else confirms they have to flavor in their power section, I think it seems likely this is a fakeclaim.

I don't see it that way, though a large portion of my certainty comes from my scum reads pushing a bad case on a town read. I've seen townies lynched before for having inconsistencies in their role pm.

Small problem with your argument that Almaster is scum. You say scum with a Vig power would be stupidly overpowered and would break the game, yet you think he is scum? Are you saying that he is fakeclaiming?

I don't think he has vig power, obviously.

[Snow_Bunny]

@Snow
Would you still label ooba townie if VV is in fact town? Can you confirm that your Power: section does not contain flavor?

I believe I made that clear in my last post. If VV is town, then I'd still be labeling ooba townie. After all, he brought up a good point against him, and saying that just because VV flipped town my opinion of him will change is hypocrite. After all, I'm voting for VV as well since long ago.

[LordChronos]

Can you answer the second part of that?

[Snow_Bunny]

Can you answer the second part of that?

-_-U

@Snow
Would you still label ooba townie if VV is in fact town? Can you confirm that your Power: section does not contain flavor?

I believe I made that clear in my last post.

If VV is town, then I'd still be labeling ooba townie. After all, he brought up a good point against him, and saying that just because VV flipped town my opinion of him will change is hypocrite. After all, I'm voting for VV as well since long ago.

Wow, so many things happened during weekend. So, let me express my PoV regarding those matters. VV is scum. Period. Fakeclaim is fake (ooba brings a good point, that

I'm yet to see countered

). Almaster, I'm not sure. It fits the flavour, at least. I don't agree with the self-vigging, though.

Just in case you haven't gotten the point, I'll put it clear: MY POWER HAS NO FLAVOUR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There, clear?

NO FLAVOUR.

Nop. Not at all. No. Flavour. None. More flavourless than a glass of water.
N.O.F.L.A.V.O.U.R.

So, no flavour.

[LordChronos]

No need to scream at me; I didn't realize that you were saying you had no flavor in your power at that point.

Well, with no one seeming to have flavor in their power text, the likelihood of a fakeclaim is going up for me.

[ooba]

This is what I said in the post you are quoting--you assume that his scum pm has flavor in the power section.

That's the only reason for scum to include it in a fake claim.

Why do you assume that when it obviously doesn't make sense given the setup (with powers being transferred)?

Not the only reason - People do slip up you know. He could have got carried away while claiming added flavor without paying attention to his role PM. Please note that I was the first townie who caught this so the other's who didn't catch this weren't too aware of this point too. It's easy to miss.

These are the assumptions your argument requires:

1) scum pm's have a different power format from town pm's, that includes flavor
2) Vas, having seen Almasters claim with no flavor, decides to add flavor when he makes his own
3) That there's no town cop in the setup

1) Wrong. Look above.
2) It's not like Almaster said my powers are generic or devoid of any flavor. He said "Vig".
3) And what about it? It's not a must for a cop to be in every game.

The fact that he CLAIMED he was paraphrasing the power section when he could easily have denied it and said he was describing his role is basically the final nail in the coffin of your theory however.

His wording for both indicate it was there in his role PM. From his POV, taking it entirely back is scummy as hell - so I am guessing he choose the path of accepting one so that it appears that he is truthful. Isn't this argument is WIFOM by the way?

Ooba: "Point A implies you're scum"
VV: "Point A is true"
Jack: "He knew Point A implies he's scum, yet he agreed to it. Why would he do that if he was scum?"

Explain why you think there would be a vig power in the setup. You understand if Almaster was a town vig, and the scum can steal powers (as implied by OP) if they killed him they would get an extra night kill? In a mini? And you seriously want to lynch an un counter claimed cop because he said he had flavor in his power description?

Look I'm not sold about AlGM being town. But at least he didn't stupid fakeclaim with flavor. And there's NO reason for a cop to be there in every mini.

And there's no reason trying to second guess how the setup is designed ..

Everyone: Why are we still limiting ourselves to this stupid false dichotomy of me vs VV? We have 24 hours. That's plenty of time to completely shift wagons.

It's a suboptimal choice sorry - if the majority of the town want to believe VV's claim (their loss) - then you're the best lynch because with you there's the big downside of losing the town "cop". It's a maximin strategy.

[Johoohno]

I agree with Iecerint’s post 431 (=lynch Vas and let Ooba hammer), since Ooba said

(Just make sure we get a consensus on most townie player to hammer)

as if to sneak away from his first claim to hammer and thus getting rid of a townly player should Vas be town or have the hammer kill even as scum. I don’t believe Ooba and Vas being scum together, but it seems one of them is. And I’m actually not believing Vas any longer (I don’t have any flavour in power section either, plus his post 392. I know town can win if they gather all tokens, but this makes me wonder if Vas knows something else and made a slip?).

AlmasterGM should not tell who he’ll vig, that is just a way for the scum to create some power role loop. Remember that everyone is a power role in this setup and that makes the scum team have an arsenal of powers to work with. I played in a mini with tons of power roles where it was close to impossible as town to understand what happened after each night even though we had claimed.

On the requested extension it sounds like this is a reasonable time asking for it, but I will most likely not be able to log in tomorrow night. I’ll

Vote: Vas

putting him at L-2 according to last vote count.

[Iecerint]

@ Jack

, my only hesitations with wanting to lynch VV are that a) some of the VVwagoners seem a little opportunistic and b) cop claim without counterclaim. I think VV is lying, so I want to lynch him; having a scummy player hammer him will give us some collateral if we're wrong -- and IF I'm wrong, it seems likely that either Alma or ooba is scum. It's true that VV and ooba are unlikely to both be scum, but I would be surprised if they were both town.

You don't have to bank on scum PRs being different to suspect VV's claim. You just have to bank on VV messing up. In fact, Alma's prior claim means that that's ALL you have to bank on, since scumVV would know Alma was town, unless they were scumfriends.

[Andrius]

VV, if you survive D1 and are town, do

not

target SD. I will deal with him.

Wait, what are you trying to say here? Protecting your scumbuddy, or something else entirely?

1. Remove the doubt that me and Almaster are scum buddies. Him and me going after each other's necks at deadline D1 is stupid. In the same way does Ooba - Me. Almaster - Ooba is possible though but.....

Wait, so you expect all scumbuddies to be friendly through the entire game? Wouldn't that make them look suspicious? So they'd want to clash a bit, right?

@ Anyone:

What does IIRC stand for? Thanks.

So ooba's willing to lynch VV, and possibly die, if VV gets to L-1. So, in a way, ooba's at L-2 with VV.

@ ooba:

Do you really think that your purpose here is best filled by hammering (the presumed) supersaint VV?
What I'm asking is from Economics (Opportunity Costs):
If you die, the town loses your power (since you claim to be town).
Is your death more beneficial to the town that your staying alive, and using it for the good of the town? Is that what you are saying?

[Snow_Bunny]

IIRC: If I recall correctly.

[Iecerint]

VV, if you survive D1 and are town, do

not

target SD. I will deal with him.

Wait, what are you trying to say here? Protecting your scumbuddy, or something else entirely?

...

Are you TRYING to be scummy? O.o

[Shadow Dancer]

Ooouuuh... My head hurts... So many claims... I read it and read it, but somehow I cannot figure it out....

/unvote

for now...

I really need to think about hte best lynch strategy, based on the claims, I think...

[ooba]

@ ooba:

Do you really think that your purpose here is best filled by hammering (the presumed) supersaint VV?
What I'm asking is from Economics (Opportunity Costs):
If you die, the town loses your power (since you claim to be town).
Is your death more beneficial to the town that your staying alive, and using it for the good of the town? Is that what you are saying?

Well, in the highly unlikely case that VV is town, the the best option for us is to have me hammer. Since I brought this entire thing up, most people seem to think that me and VV are of opposite alignments. Not only would this continue to be a major distraction on Day 2 (I mean most of the discussion would focus on flavor and the arguments and so on) and I cannot see how I would not be lynched.

From a power point of view, since all others have a power too - me hammering gives the town the incremental benefits of at least lynching somebody else D2 if VV is town.

[Shadow Dancer]

Actually, my role pm has a flavor.

[Iecerint]

^ Hmm? Does your

Power

have flavor?

[Shadow Dancer]

You mean just that one line that is marked with "

power

"...
Well.... no.

Now I see, the whole discussion is about stealable powers being flavour free...

This also results in the questions: What would a mafia cop do (after steeling the power), thus Vas claim of a normal cop role as well as the bomb part seem rather implausible to me, since both seem to kind of contradict the (openly known) rules of this game...

[Andrius]

Iecerint: How does my asking you to clarify your statement make me scummy?

ooba: I think you are missing my point. I'm saying that, if you die hammering VV, are you aware that the town will then lose your power? So, are you worth more to the town dead (and your name cleared) and powerless than alive? Like, if you were a Cop/Doc, you dying would not help the town at all. See what I'm saying?

[Jack]

If Vas kills the person who hammers him, then perhaps no one gets the power, and that explains why it has flavor. If the reason the other powers don't have flavor is because they can be taken, then it is not too surprising that a power that can't be taken had the flavor left in.

@Ooba: you are still trumping up a minor issue like it's a huge gotcha piece of evidence. It isn't. This is too complex a setup to jump to conclusions about an inconsistency. I have seen townies lynched based on that several times. Even silly stuff like words not being capitalized even though they are in everyone elses pm.

Your willingness to hammer does get you some townie points though.

[Shadow Dancer]

What ever,

vote VV

Still the vote I am most comfortable with, maybe even more, because his claim seems to be kind of implausible (hopefully it is not just inconsistency in the rules or roles...)

[Shadow Dancer]

What is the current vote count, btw?

[Andrius]

I'm pretty sure VV's at L-1, which puts him in hammer range.
I'll double check though.

[Shadow Dancer]

I don't think we can mobilize another wagon before deadline. So I will keep it like this...

Well, I am really overtired right now, I'll go to bed. gn8

[Plum]

Ooba wants the hammer y/n?

[Andrius]

VasudeVa- Snow_Bunny, Shadow Dancer, AlmasterGM, Flava Flav (L-3)
AlmasterGM- Jack, Andrius, Johoohno (L-4)
ooba- LordChronos, VausdeVa (L-5)

Not Voting:

ooba, iecerint, Plum,

With 12 alive, its 7 to lynch.

AND

Vote: Vas


putting him at L-2 according to last vote count.

AND

What ever, vote VV

Puts VV at L-1.