Mafia 113: Mafia in Mendo ~ Game Over

[dramonic]

Vote:Deer

@Furcolow: If you wanna know if I'd bus a scum as scum, I prefer not to.
@Nico: Skimmed more than read. But I've seen enough to make an opinion.

[The Fonz]

Ok well I hate to let you all down here but I don't particularly agree with either of the wagons currently.

THEN COME UP WITH ONE OF YOUR OWN FFS! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR, GODOT?

I'm uncomfortable with Fonz. He's been very aggressive all game,

Not scummy

and has also taken a strong lead of the town.

You mean, said who I think is scum and why, and tried to convince others of the case? Yeah, I totally shouldn't be doing that.

I'm not saying that's scummy, it seems to be his meta. However, it does make me uncomfortable, and I hope that we don't put all our eggs in one basket with him. It could be a nasty basket for all we know. I don't particularly agree with everything he says either. However, what I do like about Fonz is his passion. Maybe I'm getting sold by an act here, but that feels townish to me.

This post contains more hedging than your average garden maze. Also: if you are uncomfortable with my prominence, a good solution would be to become more prominent yourself. You know, maybe by posting a case on someone, and trying to convince other people of its validity. You're warning of the risk of following me (which FYI I have been doing as well) but not offering an alternative.

@Boberz: I can't see how for the life of me i'm equally as guilty as Deer, since my intent in that little exchange was fairly obviously TO GET DEER TO BACK OFF TO AVOID OUTING A POTENTIAL PR. I find it hard to see a protown rationale for that from deer, unless he's one of those people who want everything in the open and hate anything unexplained. But he's not shown that kind of curiosity with regard to anything that didn't directly revolve around him, which is part of why I think he's playing to survive and not to find scum.

I am also puzzled by your voting Deer if you think MPR is the better wagon.

[boberz]

I dont want to go into the rolefishing debate it will only make things worse. I just think you could have done it in a better way. I agree with your intentions. I am not certain Deer even gets why what he did is bad so if he cant get his head round that I hardly think he was deliberately trying to out a PR, but that doesnt make him any less scummy.

I am voting deer because I didnt like the look of the MPR wagon, and HackerHuck's vote on MPR looked to me like he was picking the one that wasnt his partner.

[The Fonz]

Hang on. If you think he wasn't trying to out power roles, then it absolutely does make him less scummy than if he was.

[boberz]

What I mean is it makes him no less scummy than I had him before. ie I am attributed it more to newbiness than scumminess but it could have been newb scum as well as newb town in equal measure.

Any way the longer this debate hangs around the more chance of drawing scums attention to any more roles that may have been revealed.

[Deer]

vote: mehplusrawr

the only wagon that is competing with mine...and your the scummiest person here.

[boberz]

Why is he the scummiest Deer?

[Damon_Gant]

Ok well I hate to let you all down here but I don't particularly agree with either of the wagons currently.

THEN COME UP WITH ONE OF YOUR OWN FFS! WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR, GODOT?

I'm uncomfortable with Fonz. He's been very aggressive all game,

Not scummy

and has also taken a strong lead of the town.

You mean, said who I think is scum and why, and tried to convince others of the case? Yeah, I totally shouldn't be doing that.

I'm not saying that's scummy, it seems to be his meta. However, it does make me uncomfortable, and I hope that we don't put all our eggs in one basket with him. It could be a nasty basket for all we know. I don't particularly agree with everything he says either. However, what I do like about Fonz is his passion. Maybe I'm getting sold by an act here, but that feels townish to me.

This post contains more hedging than your average garden maze. Also: if you are uncomfortable with my prominence, a good solution would be to become more prominent yourself. You know, maybe by posting a case on someone, and trying to convince other people of its validity. You're warning of the risk of following me (which FYI I have been doing as well) but not offering an alternative.

Bah, I'm not going to disagree with you here. I want to increase prominence, as you said, but the problem is I've kept up badly with this game and don't like becoming a leader without knowing all of the facts. Add that to my reading laziness and this is why I've played sub-optimally thus far this game. It's still valid to say that we should be careful of following you or anyone else though, and the alternative I give is for more people to think for themselves. I include myself in this advice, and that's why I'm hunting for scum outside of Deer and M+R whose cases I don't believe in. However:

vote: mehplusrawr

the only wagon that is competing with mine...and your the scummiest person here.

This post sits incredibly badly with me. Voting someone on the basis that they're the competing wagon, and then idly commenting that they also happen to be the scummiest person here (with no basis at all). The whole thing just...reads bad. There's 9 days left until deadline, no need for what looks like a desperation vote to me.

[Damon_Gant]

EBWOP: One thing I should add in my response to Fonz, I was never trying to say that your playstyle has been detrimental to the town. What I fear can be detrimental to the town is our response to your playstyle. It's a real easy ride for everyone to simply follow.

[The Fonz]

Voting someone on the basis that they're the competing wagon, and then idly commenting that they also happen to be the scummiest person here (with no basis at all). The whole thing just...reads bad.

It does seem odd coming from Mr. Explain-everything-at-all-costs.

Deer, please do a comparison of the relative merits of M+R and BV lynches.

[Ythill]

• The Consensus
  
  
• 7 ~ Deer (Jack, The Fonz, greenindirt, bv310, MehPlusRawr, boberz, dramonic)
  
• 7 ~ MehPlusRawr (RichardGHP, sirdanilot, Diacria, CryMeARiver, HackerHuck, Furcolow, Deer)
  
• 1 ~ bv310 (danakillsu)
  
• 1 ~ dramonic (Nicodemus)
  
• Not Voting: CCARaven4, Damon_Gant

• Gardening Tips
  
  
• If I get too stoned to post (or whatever) PM ani for assistance.
  
• D1 Prod Count: CCARaven4 (1), Damon_Gant (1), dramonic (1).
  
• With 18 alive, it takes 10 to lynch. The deadline is April 19, 13:00 PDT (GMT-7).
  
• CCARaven4 will be V/LA until April 13.

[greenindirt]

k so my keyboard broke and im using an onscreen one that takes forever
sorry will be getting a new one soon

[RichardGHP]

CCARaven4; Damon_Gant - If you had to choose, would you vote for either Deer or MehPlusRawr? Why?

Dana; Nico - If necessary, would you be willing to change your vote to Deer OR MehPlusRawr? Why or why not?

[Damon_Gant]

CCARaven4; Damon_Gant - If you had to choose, would you vote for either Deer or MehPlusRawr? Why?

Dana; Nico - If necessary, would you be willing to change your vote to Deer OR MehPlusRawr? Why or why not?

This

Both of the players being wagoned have been defensive all game, but their defensiveness feels like one of town, at least to me. The case particularly on m+r has been very unconvincing, and based a lot on his lurking, and also parts in his defense where maybe he's missed the point. Doesn't read scummy to me.

Deer has spent a lot of the game saying things like "explain yourself" to everybody and anybody with a vote or even suspicion on him, which has got a bit old. He has been defensive, but then, it's hard not to be when you're being attacking nearly from the first post you make. I would be happier at the moment to vote Deer over M+R though.

And this

vote: mehplusrawr

the only wagon that is competing with mine...and your the scummiest person here.

This post sits incredibly badly with me. Voting someone on the basis that they're the competing wagon, and then idly commenting that they also happen to be the scummiest person here (with no basis at all). The whole thing just...reads bad. There's 9 days left until deadline, no need for what looks like a desperation vote to me.

should answer the question. Deer is definitely the better bet for me.

[sirdanilot]

Damon Gant, stop being on the 'non voting list'. Start scumhunting on who you think is so scummy not named mehplusrawr/deer, or really scumhunt anyone.

Yes this post doesn't contain much content, I have yet to catch up with the thread, so I only read the last page.

[Diacria]

RL was being stupid.
Will definitely definitely catch up today, really sorry for the delays.

[Diacria]

I don't think MPR is scum anymore.
Ignore my previous comment on gutdeer town, Jack's scumhunting wall + Rolefishery + post 555 are all pretty terribad for him.

Unvote, Vote deer

boberz/furco are both still town.
Other options I would still be happy roping with are Dram and bv.

Yeahr...nothing much has really changed..

[Diacria]

Oh yeah, I think gant is probably town here.

[Diacria]

...and dana too.

[CryMeARiver]

I am back and ready. I'll need some time to read up, but the competing bandwagons are indeed interesting.

[The Fonz]

No-one other than Furco should put Deer at L-1, incidentally. If you think he's scummy enough to vote, announce intention to vote and demand a claim. Given Furco's stated policy of hammering anyone who claims power, I don't want him given that opportunity should Deer go down that road.

[RichardGHP]

Deer, claiming is in your best interest right now.

[The Fonz]

Deer, claiming is in your best interest right now.

Richard, remember the contract. We don't want him claiming at all unless his lynch is otherwise inevitable. Claiming expedites the end of the day, and there's a number of things i'm still probing.

[RichardGHP]

The contract states that we aren't allowed to claim VT unless we are at L-1. I assume a certain amount of compassion is extended to Power Roles, allowing them to claim early? And really, L-2, L-1, there really isn't that much of a difference. There's just a little bit more difficulty to execute a scumhammer on someone when they're at L-2 rather than L-1.

[The Fonz]

Well, yes. If he claimed at L-2, I wouldn't lynch him. Though the reason it says 'VT' and not in general is because power roles can claim with results, etc, and help the town. Claiming VT always hurts, except in massclaim. At l-2, with the MPR wagon only one behind, this lynch is far from a foregone conclusion, and if Deer is town (and even though he's incredibly scummy, the probability's pretty much 50-50 in my eyes) it's better that he keep schtum until necessary. There would be no problem with him waiting till -1 either way, if it weren't for Furc's VIness.