Mini 942: Gonzo Mafia - Game Over!


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Post Post #650 (ISO) » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:56 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

But somehow I wound up with Andrew on my hands. They had railroaded him into jail for five years, and now I was his only hope. One way or another, I had to get him into a courtroom situation where he'd be able to confront The System on its own mean terms. Put him on the Attack, instead of always on his knees....Right. And we needed to get that goddamn beeping manacle off his leg.




Votecount 2-5
:

Amished ~ L-2 (ekiM, Sotty7, Zachrulez, Jahudo)

hohum ~ L-3 (Vi, xRECKONERx, Percy)
Percy ~ L-4 (hohum, Amished)
Sotty7 ~ L-5 (Debonair Danny DiPietro)
Jahudo ~ L-5 (Jack)

Not Voting:

With
11
alive, it takes
6
to lynch. Deadline is April 17 at roughly 12 p.m. (GMT-4).
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Post Post #651 (ISO) » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:22 pm

Post by Vi »

In new scientific breakthroughs, putting this game off doesn't make catching up any easier. >.> I see some decent points I'd like to look into, but I just don't feel up to it tonight.

I'll try to go through this tomorrow morning.
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Post Post #652 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 3:14 am

Post by Sotty7 »

Jahudo Post 645 wrote:Apart from my Amished vote, I like DDD's case on Sotty the most. She largely ignored ortolan only to jump on late with little reasoning. I don't understand the tone part but otherwise its a good case, so my vote would be there if it wasn't where it is.
You just got done pushing Reck on a double standard where he didn't have much involvement with Ort so why is that telling for me and not for Reck? What about the other players that didn't have much interaction with Ort? Because if you take the tone part out of Triple D's case, that's all that's left. So enlighten me why you would vote me over anyone else who is basically in the same boat as me?

Okay... I see your EBWOP right after this. But still I would like to know what singles me out over the others.
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Post Post #653 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:11 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Vi wrote:
Jack 624 wrote:I read the game amished linked too and now I'm getting the feel that hohum is a bad townie scapegoat. Of course, he could be mafia just like he could be just a bad townie scapegoat. But I don't have the feel of it.
I've certainly seen hohum as a bad Townie before, but he was slightly better than this :?
Actually, I don't think I've ever seen hoscum.

I wouldn't be against a Jahudo lynch if it came to it. kyle99 needed it and Jahudo hasn't particularly been SuperTown.
Vi wrote:
Amished 640 wrote:Sorry Vi; I want to get a feel for people in the game while I'm here rather than extrapolating from the rest of the game.
Nya, I've been lost since before crunch time D1. It's not your fault.

So you're calling Percy+Jahudo?
I'm not against a Jahudo lynch
; Percy is kind of iffy just based on intuition/the usual craplogic that sounds good at the time.

That's without reading your posts, mind.
Unvote; Vote: Jahudo


This worked last time.
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Post Post #654 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:17 am

Post by Vi »

hohum - While I'm not going to pretend that my swampedposts are helping discussion, at least I've given you that courtesy. hohum... nothing. At all. He's promised to catch up. He hasn't. He's been onsite. He's barely avoiding prods. Etc.
I don't think Amished's "too scummy to be scum" reasoning for letting hohum go is sufficient.

ekiM - I feel that ekiM has been hiding in the background, except when pushing hohum. This then leads me to a dilemma - if hohum is scum, ekiM is very likely not; and I'm suspect that the inverse is true as well. I'm still waiting to hear about this apparent change of heart about hohum.

xRECKONERx - Are you enjoying this game? I'm really enjoying this game.

DDD - I'm still watching him, but nothing to see, etc.

Zachrulez - I'm not entirely sure why he did the following:
*Teamed up with Sotty (household jokes aside) by defending her and joining her votes
*Unvoted Jahudo based on what Jack did
*Not commented on hohum for quite the long while when he voted Cobalt for essentially what he's doing now
I don't have an overall read on him beyond the Townish idea I got from the very beginning of the game.

Jack - I'm having a difficult time seeing Jack-scum at this point, particularly via association with ortolan.

Sotty7 - Sotty has been a cipher, wrapped in an enigma, smothered in secret sauce. ...okay, maybe not that much. But I still don't see what she did in L. Lamora first thing, or why she said my "Percy case had bite" (#7) when she spent a paragraph cutting it down. Other random things are like "what is your obsession with DDD's vote" when flinter mentioned it once; how she specifically said she would read hohum+Percy+ortolan twice, nominally mentioned ortolan each time, but focused on Percy. She wins points for continuing to push Jack a little in spite of the wind no longer blowing that way, but I'm still not really convinced. Outside the Locke Lamora vote earlier Today, most of what she's said Today seems like small talk.

Amished - I really don't have a reason to suspect Amished, and considering that he kept on digging through the game while there was a threat to lynch him I'd say he's working with Town motivation. In addition, I don't think that L. Lamora was that scummy, despite Sotty's protests to the contrary and him winding up on the wrong side of the ortolan wagon.

Jahudo - Jahudo has managed to suspect everyone in this game except hohum, Zach, and until recently Sotty7. I don't agree with the majority of his suspicions, for that matter. On paper I think he would make a passable scumpartner for ortolan; however, I think he's putting in a bit too much effort for scum in his situation.

Percy - Percy's first few posts are twitchvote-worthy for reasons I threw out a long time ago. Percy exaggerating and tunneling isn't really anything new; while I haven't seen Percy as scum that sort of thing isn't outside his Town meta. I
am
bothered by how it took Percy a few posts to get into character, though. Overall I'd place him Townside though.

Vi - Needs to post in reporter flavor more.

---

I think that one of the hot points of contention ITT is how scum would likely act against their partners - would they chainsaw for them, ignore them, or actively bus them? I would say {chainsaw -> bus -> ignore} going from least to greatest probability based on the current meta.

Open question. How likely is it that Cobalt was bussed by both scumpartners, given the circumstances?

Vi - 357
DDD - 415
Cobalt replaces ortolan - 468
Jack - 475
Jahudo - 497
Sotty7 - 512
xRx - 520
Zach - 531

hohum - flaked(?), not voting
Percy - longtime hohum voter (201)
ekiM - somewhat more recent hohum voter (365)
Locke Lamora - recent Jack voter (437)
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Post Post #655 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:19 am

Post by Vi »

Not-really-simulposted by DDD "hinting" at me.

Why jump to Jahudo now?
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Post Post #656 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:25 am

Post by Jack »

Jahudo, ekiM, hohum would be my suspects. This is obvious but I don't think I've posted in a while.
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Post Post #657 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:39 am

Post by VP Baltar »

hohum has been prodded.
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Post Post #658 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:04 am

Post by Jahudo »

Sotty7 wrote:But still I would like to know what singles me out over the others.
These two quotes:
Sotty7 wrote:Ort seems to just fall into his hohum vote after being goaded into it. He also quickly abandons it. I don't like that that whole exchange.
Sotty7 wrote:The way Ort fell into his Hohum vote and then abandoned it is scummy to me.
The first is made after the event happens, and you don't say why you don't like the exchange and you haven't called it scummy yet. The second is after Vi votes ortolan, and without acknowledging that something in the event had changed for you, you call it scummy. No further explanation.

So where did the change of opinion happen?

-------------------------
Vi wrote:Open question. How likely is it that Cobalt was bussed by both scumpartners, given the circumstances?
Oh, so there's two scumpartners?

Bussed because of ortolan or because Cobalt is Cobalt? I think it depends more on if a player likes to bus, than if it was the "right move" for scum. Because with deadline chaos they might have felt they could shift momentum or roll with the tide.

I think it looks like Reck and Sotty rolled along too easily, whereas Locke's defense against the wagon felt like he was defending someone he didn't have a real town read on:
Locke wrote:As for Ortolan, I think he's made some easy votes on Reckoner and Flinter and hasn't offered much else.
That's not a town tell.
Locke wrote:I also really don't see the ortolan case. I agree with his earlier point about Reckoner's style as town and I don't think he's been lurking a great deal either.
His opinion on ortolan's activity changes. Before he said ortolan hasn't offered much else (see: active lurking), but then says ortolan hasn't been lurking a great deal. No explanation of why he changed his mind.
Locke wrote:you suggested that ortolan going after the VIs was scummy; on the same grounds, what do you make of ekiM's early post where he listed kyle, Reck and myself in his scummy category?
Here he defends ortolan's easy votes, whereas the first quote he didn't go out of his way to call it a null read.
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Post Post #659 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:06 am

Post by Jack »

Jahudo wrote:Oh, so there's two scumpartners?
What were you getting at with this comment?
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Post Post #660 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:19 am

Post by Jahudo »

Jack wrote:
Jahudo wrote:Oh, so there's two scumpartners?
What were you getting at with this comment?
lol, reactions
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Post Post #661 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:21 am

Post by Jack »

Jahudo wrote:
Jack wrote:
Jahudo wrote:Oh, so there's two scumpartners?
What were you getting at with this comment?
lol, reactions
huh? :?
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Post Post #662 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:21 am

Post by Zachrulez »

Vi wrote: Zachrulez - I'm not entirely sure why he did the following:
*Teamed up with Sotty (household jokes aside) by defending her and joining her votes
You can argue that I joined her Locke vote I guess. (Though in truth, I believe ekim raised the points first.)

On day one though, I believe she actually joined me on the Flinter wagon.

As for defending Sotty, I would need specific examples to try to be able to address your inquiry.
Vi wrote:*Unvoted Jahudo based on what Jack did
Tbh, when I saw that quote I pointed out in the vote post my immediate reaction chainsaw defense, and I dropped Jack down on my scumlist thinking him more likely to be town based on that. After thinking it over, I still don't like Flinter/Jack's play, and Locke Lamora was also pinging my scumdar with those active defenses of Ortolan.
Vi wrote:*Not commented on hohum for quite the long while when he voted Cobalt for essentially what he's doing now
Probably has a lot to do with the fact that he actually hasn't said anything in a while. I will say that I don't like the lurking, and I'm liking him less on re-read.

Also, Cobalt's lurking was one of the reasons I hammered. It also didn't go unnoticed that Ortolan horribly attacked you with distortions of what I generally know about your meta in an effort to paint you in a scummy light. (That also heavily influenced my willingness to lynch him.)

Also in an unrelated note, why was I the only player to get stars in your run down of the players in the game? Just curious.
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Post Post #663 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:11 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Vi wrote:Not-really-simulposted by DDD "hinting" at me.

Why jump to Jahudo now?
Was I supposed to wait?

I got bored and unconfident in my read. Someone asked if I'd played with Sotty before and I have, but I believe the most prominent times she was scum and I never read a weird tone in her posts so I got to thinking maybe I had the situation backwards. I'm not sure I'm wrong, but it was time to set that aside and do something. Add all that to the fact that no one was joining my wagon and it was time to make a move. Both of the big wagons are alright, but neither really set my mind on fire so it made more sense to jump to a wagon started by one of my town reads in Jack and hinted at by another one (you) especially when I wanted kyle lynched at one point yesterday.
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Post Post #664 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:35 am

Post by Zachrulez »

Vi in iso 41 wrote:
Sorry, I still like ortolan+Locke Lamora.
If (note "if") Zach and Jahudo acquiesce to an ortolynch - which shouldn't be a decision that would take long to make on their parts - that puts him up to 6; quite a bit more considerable a possibility. Since I have a stronger scumread on ortolan, I would be much more pleased with a lynch thattaway and would gladly take whatever consequences may come of it.

(Full disclosure: I'm well aware that if hohum is lynched and flips scum I'm going to look extremely bad. I don't care.)
Vi in Iso 53 wrote:
LL 485 wrote:Vi: you suggested that ortolan going after the VIs was scummy; on the same grounds, what do you make of ekiM's early post where he listed kyle, Reck and myself in his scummy category?
I actually said that ortolan was going after easy wagons, not VIs. Offhand I don't have a problem with that particular post; however, I suspect that if ekiM is scum, kyle is not (based on that post). ekiM was joining Jack's vote for kyle; aside from orto jumping late on the Jack/flinter wagons (twice) they haven't voted for each other so far. ekiM/Jack/orto sounds fairly plausible ta me; the only Town read it contradicts is the one I had on flinter (not Jack)
and I don't have any particular scum reads outside that beyond Locke Lamora (which isn't strong enough to hold on to at this point)
and kyle (who as I said I want to reserve judgment on).

So yeah. I don't normally do associative deduction but this actually works out really nicely.
Vi in more recent iso 74 wrote:
Amished - I really don't have a reason to suspect Amished, and considering that he kept on digging through the game while there was a threat to lynch him I'd say he's working with Town motivation.
In addition, I don't think that L. Lamora was that scummy, despite Sotty's protests to the contrary and him winding up on the wrong side of the ortolan wagon.
On day 1 you seemed to not have much of a problem with seeing Locke Lamora and Ortolan as scum together. What's stopped you from following up on Ortolan's flip and pushing Locke?
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Post Post #665 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 6:45 am

Post by Zachrulez »

Also you give Amished town cred for "digging through the game under pressure." However:
Amished wrote:How about I'm still not finished catching up (have 3-4 pages left) and I'm fucking getting there. I'll explain everything when I'm caught up.

Also, I love how I'm being attacked by Percy basically blindly from what I skimmed of his attack on me. Instead of waiting and seeing if I had any points to refute he just goes right into attack mode instead of knowing that he's innocent.

I'll finish up tonight (it's still been under 24 hours with sleep and work that I've been in this game and I'm getting attacked for not being 100% into it, Jesus Christ you people!) so just have some damn patience.

Also, just to point out how stupid the "rhetoric" argument is by Percy (pretty much all I caught from him while tired, I replace into pretty much every game like that. Scum and Town; and then explain my reads while I'm done. I've gotten lynched for it once, Sotty (I believe) can attest to that as a recent example.
Here Amished pretty much says that it's a null tell for him. Further, his activity has kinda sputtered out ever since he made the post where he explained the reads. (Though to be fair everyone's activity pretty much has.)

Are you seeing the slot as less scummy because of Amished? I can admit to not really seeing anything from Amished that is scummy, but there isn't anything there that really convinces me that he's town either, so the net result of my read still rests largely on Locke Lamora's scummy play.
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Post Post #666 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 8:49 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

Jesus Christ. This game seems to just magically spawn more content for me to sift through.

I still stand by my vote on hohumm, though Amished hasn't done much to assuage me from my FoS on him earlier.
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Post Post #667 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:26 am

Post by Amished »

Zachrulez wrote:
Here Amished pretty much says that it's a null tell for him. Further, his activity has kinda sputtered out ever since he made the post where he explained the reads. (Though to be fair everyone's activity pretty much has.)
You can stop right the fuck there. I haven't been around today for page 27 so from page 24 in an 11 player game but whatever (3 pages, 25 posts per page, 75 posts total). 75/11 is roughly 7 (so if everything was equal, I should have 7 posts).

I dare you right now to count how many fucking posts I have to catch up and explain myself fully. Or for the lazy/"I don't want to change my reads" crowd *glares at Zach* including this post I have 26. I'm four times as active as the rest of you should "average" with a perfect type of posts game. You do not get to say my activity is a scumtell in the slightest.

Prove your shit or don't say it in the first place.

I'll hopefully be catching up for what I missed today this weekend, it's another one spent with the girlfriend so I will probably be doing something other than illuminating myself for perfect strangers.
I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.

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Post Post #668 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:41 am

Post by Jahudo »

That's true. I only have 5 more posts than Amished, counting this one, and I've been around a week longer. He's active.
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Post Post #669 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:02 pm

Post by Zachrulez »

Do you usually use so much profanity in your posts Amished?
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Post Post #670 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:10 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

Fuck yeah profanity.
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Post Post #671 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:15 pm

Post by Amished »

Percy wrote:Describing me as "going after an easy target" when it comes to any of the three playerslots he mentioned (xRx, flinter, hohum) is flatly untrue. I didn't vote xRx until
after
the wagon had disappeared, I
never
voted flinter (and in fact spent most of the day saying how I couldn't make heads or tails of her), and to call hohum an "easy target" is ridiculous.
O RLY?
Percy in ISO 2 wrote:I don't want to put xRx at L-1 yet, but I understand that early bandwagons are designed to pile on the pressure, and xRx has reacted poorly. His "Unvote whoops well are you going to kill me because if not let's forget it ever happened" is another example of that.
Attacking him when he was at L-2; yep, you never went after him when there was a bandwagon around... You bringing up your vote is a clever ruse to make it look like I'm wrong, but your intention to vote him was there despite the lack of vote at the height of his bandwagon. Also, somebody who has barely 10 more posts than I do throughout the game is an easy target, I don't care what you say.
Percy wrote:Amished has accused me of being overdefensive, but I don't think that's the case.
I'm sure you don't. I do, and that's all that matters cause it's a scumtell for you; and you're doing it.
Jahudo in 645 wrote:
-quote by me pointing out Percy saying lashing out at anyone who attacked the original player is a scumtell-
What's this reffering to? I couldn't find anything two pages from when that quote was made, or the last two pages overall.
Look at Percy attacking me in 602 saying I'm coming out all guns'a'blazing and that I have a lot of empty rhetoric when all I did was declare him scum for reasons to be explained after I caught up. This is also in reference to the "overdefensive" thing that I called him out on. I didn't even make a case at that point and he attacked me. If anybody calls that town behavior, I'll come to your house and kick a puppy over a fence that I built in your front yard.
Percy in ISO 3 wrote:I don't like hohum's play so far. Sound and fury, signifying nothing, excused with belligerent "I'll pressure who I want!". I find it scummy. If he has played like this before as town, I'd appreciate a link.
I know there's somewhere recently where Percy said he doesn't really put much stock in meta or some-such-nonsense...

@Vi: For my hohum looks town opinion: It's a combination of I see him being lazy/anti-town; but I have three other suspects that are more blatantly scummy than hohum is in my eyes. Fourth out of ten people isn't really going to be a strong read for me.

Also, I know you were modding the game at the time but if you look back at Jazzmyn's reactions to me calling her scum in Last Man Standing it's awfully similar to Percy's reactions here. No real defense, just attacks me for calling them scum without me saying much behind it. (To clarify: snake-oil = rhetoric/guns'a'blazin' is what I'm talking about)

@Zach: Not normally, but this is a fun game and when I'm relaxed and screwing around with friends I have a foul mouth. As I've played with the majority of people here, I feel relaxed around you all. Except scum, you can die in a fire (gogo VP Baltar reference ;)) Is there a point to your question or are you going to do something productive?

@xRx: AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!
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Post Post #672 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:18 pm

Post by Zachrulez »

Amished wrote:
@Zach: Not normally, but this is a fun game and when I'm relaxed and screwing around with friends I have a foul mouth. As I've played with the majority of people here, I feel relaxed around you all. Except scum, you can die in a fire (gogo VP Baltar reference ;)) Is there a point to your question or are you going to do something productive?
I was pretty surprised by it given that it didn't make an appearance in any previous game we've played together.
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Post Post #673 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:21 pm

Post by Vi »

@Zachrulez:

*The list format - The significance is that I didn't put a lot of effort into formatting that post after stream-of-consciousnessville.

*Defending Sotty7 - Only one person put a case out on Sotty - that person being someone most people don't listen to anyway (don't tell him that though). You haven't expressed suspicion of DDD and AFAIK not said anything about seeing Sotty as Town (as opposed to "not scummy that you know of")... so... why?

What do you think of my heavy implication that I don't see scum chainsawing if they don't have a clear advantage in doing so?

*Change of opinion re: Locke Lamora - If I didn't have a problem with ortolan with Locke Lamora, I wouldn't have posted #53 on D1, no?

I'm going to assume you find me scummy?

*Amished vs. Locke Lamora - I'm willing to call Town on LL. I haven't had a reason to call scum on Amished... so.

If you're trying to P.O. Amished, you're doing a good job.

--

I'll look into what Amished is saying when I get to it.
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.
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xRECKONERx
xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
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xRECKONERx
GD is my Best Man
GD is my Best Man
Posts: 26087
Joined: March 15, 2009

Post Post #674 (ISO) » Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:27 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

Amished wrote:Attacking him when he was at L-2; yep, you never went after him when there was a bandwagon around... You bringing up your vote is a clever ruse to make it look like I'm wrong, but your intention to vote him was there despite the lack of vote at the height of his bandwagon. Also, somebody who has barely 10 more posts than I do throughout the game is an easy target, I don't care what you say.
Whoa, this is a great point. Excellent, even.
Unvote; Vote: Percy
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