Mini 942: Gonzo Mafia - Game Over!

[Amished]

To elaborate: Why is hohum playing "weaksaucely" scummy for him?

[xRECKONERx]

It's half-assed. The same reason I wanted to lynch ortolan yesterday.

[Percy]

Firstly, I liked ekiM's post 562. I still have a town read on him. I'm going to re-ISO him with some more commentary soon.

I've said all I want to say about my case on hohum, and his latest vote on me further solidifies my read.

I didn't see this question first time round. I wasn't really conscious of the fact I was voting xReckonerx when I made that post, it was just I guess that I strongly reacted against what I saw as flinter's bullying/pushing a mislynch on kyle which I know scum is likely to do. I will say more recently that I explicitly feel reckoner is not as likely to be scum as I first thought...

After such a weak excuse and jumping onto flinter, xRx looks more scummy (not less), whilst flinter/Jack looks slightly more town.

Why does Jack look more town from this move?

He "forgot" his vote on xRx, and criticised flinter's attack on kyle. The vote on xRx seems very opportunistic, but whether it's simply opportunism or a bus is unclear. His jumping on flinter for "pushing a mislynch on kyle" makes me think it's unlikely flinter/Jack was scum with ortolan, though only slightly - I would think that a scumbuddy would be more likely to give a scumbuddy trying for a mislynch a bit of room to do so.

Locke's been replaced by Amished, who has come out all guns blazing at me in an attempt to distract the town from his predecessor's conduct. I will say a few things:

1. My vote on hohum had little to do with ortolan. Trying to tie my case in with ortolan is essentially the argument "hohum and ortolan were attacking each other, and I attacked hohum, and since ortolan was scum, I must be scum trying to protect my buddy". It takes a lot of oversimplification to get to this point, and the argument is without merit.
1a. For example, I think the interpretation that hohum and ortolan were bussing is equally valid (and in fact I've presented reasons as to why this may be the case in earlier posts), completely invalidating Amished's entire line of argument.

2. I was prodding ortolan at numerous points throughout the day for what I saw as sloppy reasoning. In particular, note this post of mine, where I call him out again on similar vote shenanigans to what he had done earlier. He had no votes at this time. It was for these reasons that I ended up voting ortolan.

3. I never declared a town read on ortolan, nor took steps to actively defend him, except from points raised by hohum that I thought were sloppy and scummy - unlike Locke.

4. I have admitted that I was tunnelled in on the hohum case at many points throughout the game, which I've been trying to rectify (but hohum isn't making it easy). I've tried to make my reasoning clear, and Amished's characterization of my reads being not genuine is something I can neither understand nor respond to.

5. It's exactly this kind of rhetoric:

Percy should be lynched as well. Pretty sure that will win the game. Who wants a lynch now?

...that makes me think this is an all-out attack in an effort to evade suspicion on Locke. Why he thinks there are only two scum in this game is bizarre, and even if he doesn't, it's certainly what he's implying.

Most of the above is pretty WIFOM (especially 2 and 3), but it's better in the WIFOM department than the case Amished has presented.

I haven't had a chance to do my other ISOs yet, will get to them soon.

[Percy]

EBWOP: I now better understand the quote in point 5. He isn't implying that he thinks there are only two scum, but that the scumteam is zach and myself. The point about the strong rhetoric stands.

[hohum]

Hohum: If you call me Ed, will you shoot yourself in the face for me?

Your avatar really doesn't help your cause any.

But I agree with you. Percy needs to be lynched so I'll fix my quote:

Hohum: If you call me Ed, will you shoot yourself in the face for me?

[VP Baltar]

Why not? It happened to

me

once--in Sacramento, when some Japs in a brute Lamborghini ran me down on The Parkway like I was standing still, then bashed me repeatedly at top speed until I finally lost control....It was one of the ugliest moments of my life and I'll never forget it. Those tattooed swine! I should have had them locked up, but I was helpless.

After that, I got one of my own, for $150,000.

---

Votecount 2-3

:

hohum ~ L-2 (Vi, xRECKONERx, Percy, Jack)

Amished ~ L-3 (ekiM, Sotty7, Zachrulez)
Percy ~ L-4 (hohum, Amished)
Sotty7 ~ L-5 (Debonair Danny DiPietro)


Not Voting: Jahudo

With

11

alive, it takes

6

to lynch. Deadline is April 17 at roughly 12 p.m. (GMT-4).

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD: I just wanted a question to people I've played with before and that was the first one that came to mind. Link to your case on Sotty?

Nah, how about you just read the game; it's in there.

[Zachrulez]

I'm patiently waiting for Amished to actually explain his reads.

[Percy]

I thought ortoscum+hoscum unlikely. I thought ortolan was scummy. I thought hohum was scummier.

Do you still consider ortoscum+hoscum unlikely?

I have some good vibes from zach. I've also liked Sotty's play recently; in particular, I like this post and the case against Locke therein. I also kinda agree here:

Jack votes after I again rally for an ort lynch and in my sarcastic way I pulled apart the viability of lynches of Locke, Jack, and myself to redirect people to the now vibrant ortolan wagon. Does an ortolan lynch happen without Vi's arguments? No. Does an ortolan lynch happen without my vote and agitation? Maybe, but in this reality of this game they were crucial and to pretend otherwise is a misrepresentation of this game's history.

That said, I'd like to hear DDD's take on Locke/Amished and hohum.

I'm swimming in townreads, and that's probably not a good thing. But I'm fine with the hohum and Locke wagons right now; I think they're both quite solid.

But I agree with you. Percy needs to be lynched

Today is a great day to lynch hohum.

[Vi]

If Percy is scum, he's beating the proverbial pants off hohum-Town in terms of looking believable. (This is basically what xRx is saying.) The difference between D1 hohum (under little suspicion and in control of the game) and D2 hohum (not either of those) is pretty jarring.

I don't have a problem at all with what was said on Page 9 and ortolan being scum with hohum; it doesn't go against my theory that ortolan really didn't want to vote hohum in the first place but hohum forced the issue.

I'm not really feeling the Locke Lamished hate very much atm tbh.

Correction for Percy:

Percy should be lynched

as well

. Pretty sure that will win the game. Who wants a lynch now?

Why he thinks there are only two scum in this game is bizarre, and even if he doesn't, it's certainly what he's implying.

"As well" implies more than one lynch implies more than one scum remaining.

@Amished: I stopped caring about Sotty7 and Zachrulez several pages ago.
I am notoriously bad at reading both of them, and in spite of them acting as a family unit in more ways than one throughout the game they don't seem to be where the scum are ITT.

If I had to say there were scum in that general direction, I would agree with DDD that Zach is the one more likely to be Town.

[Jahudo]

Looking back at Locke's early opinion of the ortolan wagon, I can see where he was trying to keep it from gaining momentum. There was the threat of a no lynch occurring if the various wagons didn't compromise into a lynch wagon, but I don't see how that's something you counter-act with preventing new wagon suggestions. That should actually help the compromise process, and further analysis down the line.

There's also the idea that he was against orto-wagon talk because he had a town read on orto. But if he was town I don't know how he'd then see Vi's vote as being suspicious.

Vote: Amished

[xRECKONERx]

I'm patiently waiting for Amished to actually explain his reads.

This.

FoS: Amish Ed

[Sotty7]

Locke replaced out of Open 208 with the same message, for reference.

He also replaced out of mini 934 that I am in with him with the same message. I don't think it means anything.

Amished seems to be stalling with his back and forth with Reck over another game. The sooner he finishes reading and gets his reasoning in the thread for his reads the better.

I would do some more ISOs today but I'm sick and really can't stomach it.

Vote: Amished

Lynch -1

[Amished]

How about I'm still not finished catching up (have 3-4 pages left) and I'm fucking getting there. I'll explain everything when I'm caught up.

Also, I love how I'm being attacked by Percy basically blindly from what I skimmed of his attack on me. Instead of waiting and seeing if I had any points to refute he just goes right into attack mode instead of knowing that he's innocent.

I'll finish up tonight (it's still been under 24 hours with sleep and work that I've been in this game and I'm getting attacked for not being 100% into it, Jesus Christ you people!) so just have some damn patience.

Also, just to point out how stupid the "rhetoric" argument is by Percy (pretty much all I caught from him while tired, I replace into pretty much every game like that. Scum and Town; and then explain my reads while I'm done. I've gotten lynched for it once, Sotty (I believe) can attest to that as a recent example.

[Jack]

Locke wagon is looking weak. I don't see how he's been wishy-washy or lurky. I had one tell on him that I still like, but it was also kinda early in the day and now I'm feeling meh.

Jahudo starts today going after ekiM.

Looking back at Locke's early opinion of the ortolan wagon, I can see where he was trying to keep it from gaining momentum. There was the threat of a no lynch occurring if the various wagons didn't compromise into a lynch wagon, but I don't see how that's something you counter-act with preventing new wagon suggestions. That should actually help the compromise process, and further analysis down the line.

There's also the idea that he was against orto-wagon talk because he had a town read on orto. But if he was town I don't know how he'd then see Vi's vote as being suspicious.

Vote: Amished

*puts locke/Amished at L-1*


Jahudo is likely scum. Maybe even a better lynch than hohum.

[Amished]

Finally caught up.

For hohum, my experience with him is that he's kinda lazy and ... xRx-ish at times. (For reference: this game where hohum (in a simple code) claimed cop first post as cop; and it's also the reason that charter replaced out of this game after seeing hohum here). I've not really seen him outside of this whole playstyle so right now he just feels like an easy target for almost a policy lynch.

Moving on: I get a lot of my reads on people purely by gut; and both Zach and Percy pinged those pretty hardcore. Flinter did for a little bit, but then it seemed more of a playstyle thing for her? which is why I took her off my list in my catching up posts.

For Zach (also, I'll be editing stuff in for him as I see it, so this section is likely to be disjointed): a lot of what I saw of him early on is in his responses to Vi's questioning. Even when admitting that his is an RVS vote, he doesn't do a hell of a lot about it. This post pinged my scumdar the hardest. He got way too jumpy about a simple question it feels like.

This post and the one right after it just seems like he's trying to find any reason to vote for anybody at that point. Not many people have done *anything* at that point. DDD only had 1 post, ekiM had 2; but he picks out flinter because of what Sotty said. If you combine this with what Zach said later about him not being able to fool Sotty, this does seem like a cheesy way to try to fit into a blind spot of hers.

For Percy: It starts with both his RVS vote and continues with his first questioning post. These both look contrived. The RVS vote just doesn't read right. There's not really a way to make the statement an exclamatory one, and it just seems like he's trying to overexaggerate to help give a reason to his vote by making it look scummy. For the questioning post, if that's not the fluffiest question I've ever seen I'll eat my pitchfork. There was absolutely no "lashing out" by anybody *but* xRx; so the question is absolutely pointless for being the 34th one in the game (18th that wasn't confirmations/rules). It's busy work that couldn't even help Percy help to determine how hohum felt about anything.

--Supper time, gonna finish this when I come back so I don't lose it to timing out or anything--

Post 65, page 3

[Amished]

Also, I ask that somebody unvotes me until I at least have my say and a chance to defend my position. Continuing on, I'll try not to get as picky to cut down on stuff that I picked up on.

[Jack]

hmm

unvote, vote:Jahudo

[Jack]

Also, I ask that somebody unvotes me until I at least have my say and a chance to defend my position. Continuing on, I'll try not to get as picky to cut down on stuff that I picked up on.

I could have sworn I requested that 2 posts ago, but I guess I got distracted somehow

Anyhow, I'm very much soured on the hohum lynch atm. Let's wagon Jahudo instead of him or amished please.

[Percy]

Also, I love how I'm being attacked by Percy basically blindly from what I skimmed of his attack on me. Instead of waiting and seeing if I had any points to refute he just goes right into attack mode instead of knowing that he's innocent.

Wait, what? You're accusing me of blindly attacking you, even though you haven't read what I wrote?

The RVS vote just doesn't read right. There's not really a way to make the statement an exclamatory one, and it just seems like he's trying to overexaggerate to help give a reason to his vote by making it look scummy.

I had just finished a game with flinter, who was scum and hadn't read her role PM. Gamethread is

here

(I am part of the Gerty hydra).

For the questioning post, if that's not the fluffiest question I've ever seen I'll eat my pitchfork. There was absolutely no "lashing out" by anybody *but* xRx; so the question is absolutely pointless for being the 34th one in the game (18th that wasn't confirmations/rules). It's busy work that couldn't even help Percy help to determine how hohum felt about anything.

See, I remember putting a lot of thought into how to phrase that question. I saw the xRx wagon building steam, and hohum seemed very aggressive. I thought that labelling xRx's play the way hohum did may have been a scummy way to perpetuate the wagon, because I wasn't convinced that xRx was scum and hohum's phrasing appeared disingenuous. I phrased it pretty open-ended, though, in an attempt to get a better read on hohum rather than implying my gut read and possibly defending xRx (if he was scum to hohum town). The question was phrased to get a better read on the situation.

Going to re-read Jahudo.

[Amished]

@Percy: I was more concerned about your revision post where you like saw where I was coming from, but I was still scum for it.

I don't care about where the question came from, the fact that you made it an exclamation rather than just a simple sentence or a question (both of which are more logical and more likely to be a normal reaction) is what made that post ping my gut.

For the question, wouldn't it be better just to ask for an opinion rather than "phras(ing) it pretty open-ended" that actually only left hohum one answer?

[Jahudo]

Jahudo starts today going after ekiM.

Yes, because he was one of the people I didn't get much of a catch-up read on.

*puts locke/Amished at L-1*

Count again, Jack and Sotty. Its L-2. And Locke was one of my suspects day 1, whereas I have a town read on hohum.

[Amished]

Oh, and btw Jahudo put me at L-2, not L-1.

Still an odd vote. I don't see hohum scum, and I know I'm not scum. I could see a possibility where I'm wrong about one of Percy/Zach and Jahudo is attacking me for pegging a scummate (and I'm more certain about Percy anyways).

Considering the wagon on hohum looks larger than it should be, Vi starting it fits right, xRx is.. well, xRx and I can see where he's coming from (hey, attacking somebody that was half-assed worked once, why not try it again?), and Jack doesn't seem like the most experienced person so would be likely to follow a Vi in this game. Percy's vote is left in the open there for that; with Jahudo sitting in the "not voting" category to see if there would be more support for any wagon and hop on that.

So from here I'll stop with Zach as I've been wrong before and a lot of people are stating a town read on him. Still a questionable in my mind but meh, not worth it right now.

[Vi]

Anyhow, I'm very much soured on the hohum lynch atm. Let's wagon Jahudo instead of him or amished please.

This

Troper

Journalist would like some details on this scoop.

In addition, the editorials are curious as to when and why ekiM lost his flavor for the hohum lynch he so cherished D1.

[Jack]

I read the game amished linked too and now I'm getting the feel that hohum is a bad townie scapegoat. Of course, he could be mafia just like he could be just a bad townie scapegoat. But I don't have the feel of it.

And Locke was one of my suspects day 1, whereas I have a town read on hohum.

But you dropped Locke as I quoted you to show.